Does McCain already have the Election won?

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Post by CaptainChewbacca » 2008-09-10 12:45pm

General Zod wrote:
CaptainChewbacca wrote: I like McCain, and I love sarah palin so much it hurts. I just keep quiet about it around here. Heck, the day she was announced, I sent McCain $100.
Let me guess, you completely avoid any thread discussing McCain too just so it doesn't shatter your fragile worldview?
I read the threads, and I consider your opinions. I agree with some on this board that McCain (and others) get a fair bit of unfair character treatment and that there is an inherent bias to political debate on this board that makes participation less than rewarding. My worldview is stronger than the 1's and 0's that come out of my monitor.
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Post by Solauren » 2008-09-10 12:46pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote: Someone disagreeing with you doesn't make them stupid, and thinking you know everything you need to know about life doesn't make you smart.
And sounding wise does not make one so, but braying like a mule often makes on a Jackass.

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Post by General Zod » 2008-09-10 12:47pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote: I read the threads, and I consider your opinions. I agree with some on this board that McCain (and others) get a fair bit of unfair character treatment and that there is an inherent bias to political debate on this board that makes participation less than rewarding. My worldview is stronger than the 1's and 0's that come out of my monitor.
What unfair treatment? He's a raging asshole with temper problems who doesn't now shit about the economy. Exactly what about his policy is there that makes him a superior choice to Obama?
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Post by CaptainChewbacca » 2008-09-10 12:48pm

Solauren wrote:
CaptainChewbacca wrote: Someone disagreeing with you doesn't make them stupid, and thinking you know everything you need to know about life doesn't make you smart.
And sounding wise does not make one so, but braying like a mule often makes on a Jackass.
Indeed. That's why I try and stay out of these threads unless I have something worthwhile to say.
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Post by Cairber » 2008-09-10 12:53pm

She was the mayor of Alaska's fifth-largest city, got an oil pipeline built in the face of massive corruption, ran a commercial fishing fleet for six years, and somehow managed to have a nominally functional family. What's Obama done?
Yeah she goted voted in to the 5th largest Alaskan city with, what, 600 votes was it? :lol:

Are you asking what Obama has done because I can bombard you with links to bills he has supported/sponsored/written and other actions taken in the state of IL....IF you really are wondering.
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Post by Cairber » 2008-09-10 12:55pm

There was plenty of kicking around of John Kerry in the last election on this site (I was a Bush supporting republican back then). I think people around here just say it like it is. I don't see how a rational mind can think McCain isn't more of the same (unless you like what's been happening in this country...I guess that is at least consistent)


(btw, typo in my last post-- "got" )
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Post by CaptainChewbacca » 2008-09-10 12:58pm

Cairber wrote:
She was the mayor of Alaska's fifth-largest city, got an oil pipeline built in the face of massive corruption, ran a commercial fishing fleet for six years, and somehow managed to have a nominally functional family. What's Obama done?
Yeah she goted voted in to the 5th largest Alaskan city with, what, 600 votes was it? :lol:

Are you asking what Obama has done because I can bombard you with links to bills he has supported/sponsored/written and other actions taken in the state of IL....IF you really are wondering.
Sure, I'll take a look at his federal senate record, if you've got it. Also, Wasilia has 6,000 people, and while it is a small city by most standards, it IS an important city in Alaska.
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Post by CaptainChewbacca » 2008-09-10 01:02pm

Edit: Sorry, misread your post. She won mayor with 900 votes, which is (I believe) more than Joe Biden got in the Iowa Caucus.
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Post by Darth Wong » 2008-09-10 01:04pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:
The reason you "keep quiet" about it is that you know any arguments you bring up in defense of the McCain ticket would get skewered, and you're the kind of moron who thinks that just means we're "biased" so there's no point bringing it up.
The reason I 'keep quiet' is I don't want to have to defend what I believe all hours of the day and night.
Who the fuck said you have to stay up 24/7 in order to make an argument, fucktard?
That's my perrogative as a member of this board, and I cannot and will not be dragged into defending Christianity or Conservatism on the internet's public stage, not just because I'm not qualified to but because I really don't have the inclination.
Because you don't have any good arguments to make.
Someone disagreeing with you doesn't make them stupid, and thinking you know everything you need to know about life doesn't make you smart.
Ah yes, the time-tested "if you think you know better than me, you must think you know everything about everything" argument. Classically stupid.

Want to know what real stupidity is? Refusing to subject your opinions to challenge.
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Post by CaptainChewbacca » 2008-09-10 01:06pm

Ah yes, the time-tested "if you think you know better than me, you must think you know everything about everything" argument. Classically stupid.
Yes, that was rather petty of me. I appologize.
Want to know what real stupidity is? Refusing to subject your opinions to challenge.
I challenge my opinions, just not here. I take a slower pace that SDN really isn't conducive to. There's a heck of a lot of good info here, though, with folks like Cairber around.
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Post by Darth Wong » 2008-09-10 01:09pm

She was the mayor of Alaska's fifth-largest city, got an oil pipeline built in the face of massive corruption, ran a commercial fishing fleet for six years, and somehow managed to have a nominally functional family. What's Obama done?
"Getting an oil pipeline built" is an example of lobbying for regional spending: something she claims to be against. "Running a commercial fishing fleet" is a helluva nice way to say that she helped out with her husband's family business: by this kind of insane reasoning, Hillary Clinton ran America for 8 years. And "Mayor of Alaska's fifth largest city" is an absurdly charitable way to say that she was mayor of a town with fewer residents than the on-campus dorms at my university. Maybe we should nominate our student council president for her job; he had more constituents than she did, after all.

Neither she or McCain show any inclination whatsoever to reverse the trend of middle-class wealth ending up in wealthy peoples' investment accounts, or any inclination whatsoever to do anything to help anyone, for that matter. But they will tell you about all of the people in this country who are evil and need to be put in their place.
Last edited by Darth Wong on 2008-09-10 01:16pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by CaptainChewbacca » 2008-09-10 01:16pm

Darth Wong wrote:"Getting an oil pipeline built" is an example of lobbying for regional spending: something she claims to be against.
She claims to be against unproductive 'pork' spending. An oil/gas pipeline (I honestly don't remember which it is) is a vital piece of energy infrastructure with tangible benefits.
"Running a commercial fishing fleet" is a helluva nice way to say that she helped out with her husband's family business: by this kind of insane reasoning, Hillary Clinton ran America for 8 years.
That's a strawman. Palin had real economic and business responsibilities working for her husband's business, and actually had final say on business decisions. Hillary was sent out for P.R and given occasional legislative 'projects', her most prominent of which she botched badly. Hillary was in no way a co-president.
And "Mayor of Alaska's fifth largest city" is an absurdly charitable way to say that she was mayor of a town with fewer residents than the on-campus dorms at my university.
Just because a town is small doesn't mean its not important. A lot of trade and commerce goes through Wasilia into northern Alaska, and for the state its in it is a significant commerce and transportation hub. Also, I just checked, and its actually the 4th largest city. Alaska runs a bit different than other states, and for her to have been Mayor of Wasilia indicates she does pretty well with power and authority.
Neither she or McCain show any inclination whatsoever to reverse the trend of middle-class wealth ending up in wealthy peoples' investment accounts, or any inclination whatsoever to do anything to help anyone, for that matter. But they will tell you about all of the people in this country who are evil and need to be put in their place.
I just read an article about their views of the recent Frannie/Freddy banking implosion, they seemed pretty on-board with getting that sort of thing stopped. Can't find the link at the moment, though.
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Post by Darth Wong » 2008-09-10 01:21pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:She claims to be against unproductive 'pork' spending. An oil/gas pipeline (I honestly don't remember which it is) is a vital piece of energy infrastructure with tangible benefits.
She lobbied for any kind of money to Alaska, regardless of whether it was pork. Or did you forget that she lobbied for that infamous "bridge to nowhere", before it became a public embarrassment?
That's a strawman. Palin had real economic and business responsibilities working for her husband's business, and actually had final say on business decisions. Hillary was sent out for P.R and given occasional legislative 'projects', her most prominent of which she botched badly. Hillary was in no way a co-president.
I've actually worked in companies where the boss' wife had "important responsibilities" and "final say" on certain decisions. I don't know exactly how gullible you are, but let's just say that you are putting way too much stock in this.
And "Mayor of Alaska's fifth largest city" is an absurdly charitable way to say that she was mayor of a town with fewer residents than the on-campus dorms at my university.
Just because a town is small doesn't mean its not important.
It means the difficulty of administration is greatly reduced, even leaving aside the possibility (or probability) that she let underlings take care of the day-to-day business while she lobbied for money.
A lot of trade and commerce goes through Wasilia into northern Alaska, and for the state its in it is a significant commerce and transportation hub. Also, I just checked, and its actually the 4th largest city. Alaska runs a bit different than other states, and for her to have been Mayor of Wasilia indicates she does pretty well with power and authority.
Relativism will get you nowhere. My left knee is really important for the leg it's in too.
Neither she or McCain show any inclination whatsoever to reverse the trend of middle-class wealth ending up in wealthy peoples' investment accounts, or any inclination whatsoever to do anything to help anyone, for that matter. But they will tell you about all of the people in this country who are evil and need to be put in their place.
I just read an article about their views of the recent Frannie/Freddy banking implosion, they seemed pretty on-board with getting that sort of thing stopped. Can't find the link at the moment, though.
You mean like the way Republicans all said they were going to put an end to shady accounting after the Enron scandal? :lol:

She's drinking from the Deregulation Kool-Aid trough just like all the rest of them.
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Post by Big Phil » 2008-09-10 01:26pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Edit: Sorry, misread your post. She won mayor with 900 votes, which is (I believe) more than Joe Biden got in the Iowa Caucus.
You really shouldn't be so damned proud of your ignorance. If you want to vote McCain because you think he's an upright guy and you like your war heroes, fine, but don't start throwing out Republican lies to support your poorly thought out position.

A 30-second Google search shows how you're idiotically regurgitating Republican talking points
Biden's Vote Total? Higher Than Palin's

By Juliet Eilperin
ST. PAUL -- Former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee got a big laugh from the crowd at tonight's convention when he said that as mayor of Wasilla, Alaska, GOP vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin outpolled her Democratic counterpart, Joseph Biden.

"She got more votes running for mayor of the town of Alaska than Joe Biden got running for president of the United States," Huckabee declared, sparking applause.

There's just one problem with Huckabee's statement: it's not true. Biden collected a total of 63,157 votes during the Democratic primaries and caucuses this year. By contrast, Wasilla boasts a population of 9,780.

Running statewide, Biden still comes out on top. Palin got the backing of 114,697 Alaskans in her 2006 gubernatorial bid, compared to the 135,253 votes Biden got in his 2002 Senate race.
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Post by CaptainChewbacca » 2008-09-10 01:27pm

Darth Wong wrote:She lobbied for any kind of money to Alaska, regardless of whether it was pork. Or did you forget that she lobbied for that infamous "bridge to nowhere", before it became a public embarrassment?
I was under the impression that she tried to kill the bridge but keep the money for productive use.
I've actually worked in companies where the boss' wife had "important responsibilities" and "final say" on certain decisions. I don't know exactly how gullible you are, but let's just say that you are putting way too much stock in this.
Could be. I hadn't heard about the fishing thing till yesterday, and don't really know much about it.
It means the difficulty of administration is greatly reduced, even leaving aside the possibility (or probability) that she let underlings take care of the day-to-day business while she lobbied for money.
I don't consider trying to get money for her city a bad thing, and if she was someday President, I'd want her trying to get as much for the American people as she could.
Relativism will get you nowhere. My left knee is really important for the leg it's in too.
How does experience in running a significant part of Alaska's economy not show experience in economic leadership?
You mean like the way Republicans all said they were going to put an end to shady accounting after the Enron scandal? :lol:

She's drinking from the Deregulation Kool-Aid trough just like all the rest of them.
I'd agree with you, except she has a proven record of cutting through corruption and getting things done regardless of party affiliation. She gets a bit mule-headded about it, but she gets results.
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Post by CaptainChewbacca » 2008-09-10 01:29pm

SancheztheWhaler wrote: Running statewide, Biden still comes out on top. Palin got the backing of 114,697 Alaskans in her 2006 gubernatorial bid, compared to the 135,253 votes Biden got in his 2002 Senate race.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-tr ... _than.html[/quote]

Thanks. I tried finding vote counts for Biden, but all I was able to get from a cursory check of online sources was percentages.
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Post by Darth Wong » 2008-09-10 01:40pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:She lobbied for any kind of money to Alaska, regardless of whether it was pork. Or did you forget that she lobbied for that infamous "bridge to nowhere", before it became a public embarrassment?
I was under the impression that she tried to kill the bridge but keep the money for productive use.
You're wrong.
I've actually worked in companies where the boss' wife had "important responsibilities" and "final say" on certain decisions. I don't know exactly how gullible you are, but let's just say that you are putting way too much stock in this.
Could be. I hadn't heard about the fishing thing till yesterday, and don't really know much about it.
And yet you had no problem repeating the talking point. Typical Republitard.
It means the difficulty of administration is greatly reduced, even leaving aside the possibility (or probability) that she let underlings take care of the day-to-day business while she lobbied for money.
I don't consider trying to get money for her city a bad thing, and if she was someday President, I'd want her trying to get as much for the American people as she could.
Do you think I won't notice that you're changing the subject? How can her mayorship be proof of her administrative ability when she wasn't even there for extended periods because she was in Washington DC lobbying for money? How difficult can the job be? How can it be used as proof of her administrative ability?
Relativism will get you nowhere. My left knee is really important for the leg it's in too.
How does experience in running a significant part of Alaska's economy not show experience in economic leadership?
See above.
You mean like the way Republicans all said they were going to put an end to shady accounting after the Enron scandal? :lol:

She's drinking from the Deregulation Kool-Aid trough just like all the rest of them.
I'd agree with you, except she has a proven record of cutting through corruption and getting things done regardless of party affiliation. She gets a bit mule-headded about it, but she gets results.
What does "cutting through corruption and getting things done" have to do with her drinking the Deregulation Kool-Aid? For that matter, what does "cutting through corruption and getting things done" even mean, specifically? It sounds like Stewart from SDI who, when asked what his consulting firm did, said that they "provide solutions to unsolvable problems" and "think outside the box". That's completely empty resume-padding talk.
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Post by J » 2008-09-10 01:44pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:I just read an article about their views of the recent Frannie/Freddy banking implosion, they seemed pretty on-board with getting that sort of thing stopped. Can't find the link at the moment, though.
5 seconds of searching on Google News turns up this.

New York Times

Excerpt:
Both presidential nominees expressed support for the government’s plans to take over the companies. The chief economic adviser to Senator John McCain, Republican of Arizona, who has long been critical of the mortgage giants, said on Saturday that Mr. McCain considered it an unfortunate but necessary step.
And another one from Barron's
Excerpt:
"It is our view at this point that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac should be directly incorporated into the U.S. budget," said CBO Director Peter Orszag in a statement. "If the firms suffer substantial losses as reflected in their own accounts, that would be reflected to some degree in the federal budget accounts," he added.

In other words, they will be shouldered by the taxpayers, just as Palin suggested.
McCain also abstained in the voting for the federal housing bill passed in July which enabled this bailout in the first place. That bill provided the authority to carry out the government takeover.

It was only after the markets went down the pooper yesterday that they changed their tune and said it was a bad idea. Notice how they were silent when the markets were up 300 points on Monday.
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Post by Big Phil » 2008-09-10 01:45pm

Here are the comparative policy differences between Obama and McCain on major issues:

Iraq
Obama: pull troops out and move them to Afghanistan
McCain: keep troops in Iraq, no matter what

Economy
Obama: tax incentives for corporations to keep jobs in this country
McCain: tax cuts for corporations

Healthcare
Obama: national healthcare plan so that everyone who wants to be covered will be covered. Will be paid for by higher taxes on corporations and wealthy
McCain: no national healthcare plan, no substantial changes to the system we have now

Abortion
Obama: Pro-Choice
McCain: used to be pro-choice, now pro-life

Taxes
Obama: Lower taxes for those making less than $250K per year, higher taxes for corporations and wealthy
McCain: Lower taxes for wealthy and corporations

Energy
Obama: No offshore drilling, national policy on alternative fuel sources, reduce dependence on foreign oil
McCain: Offshore drilling, national policy on alternative fuel sources, reduce dependence on foreign oil

National Debt & Budget Deficit
Obama: Deficit must be eliminated and debt must be paid down
McCain: No plan to speak of other than "tightening government spending." Of course, the Republicans have been pretty impressive at "tightening government spending" the last eight years, so I totally believe McCain.

What blows my mind is that Obama has specific, reasonable, workable solutions to the problems this country faces, while McCain has vague solutions that often fly in the face of reality (i.e., cutting taxes on corporations =/= job growth, no matter how many times Republicans say it does), and yet you're voting McCain because you like him and think he's an honorable guy? Really, do the ideas not matter to you at all?

Are you sure you're not voting because you like Sarah Palin's tits, or because you don't like black people, or because you like old man balls?
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Post by CaptainChewbacca » 2008-09-10 01:49pm

Are you sure you're not voting because you like Sarah Palin's tits, or because you don't like black people, or because you like old man balls?
I like 1 & 2, but not 3.
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Post by TC Pilot » 2008-09-10 01:51pm

Isn't keeping the federal money intended for the bridge for other purposes essentially fraud, anyway, since it sounds like a categorical grant?
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Post by Darth Wong » 2008-09-10 01:53pm

TC Pilot wrote:Isn't keeping the federal money intended for the bridge for other purposes essentially fraud, anyway, since it sounds like a categorical grant?
More to the point, it's paid for by all American taxpayers, yet they get no say in what she does with it, now that it's in her grubby little hands. And this is from the woman who says that she will fight earmarks! But don't worry, because she has a "proven record of cutting through corruption and getting things done".
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Post by The Yosemite Bear » 2008-09-10 01:57pm

Remember, unless you hate the seperation of church and state, believe in sucession, and the maiming without compensation of the members of our armed forces, then your not a true patriot as per those wonderful folks in the GOP....

oh yeah and rob from the poor and soon to be poor and give to the rich.
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Post by CaptainChewbacca » 2008-09-10 01:59pm

Hey, I like separation of church and state. Keeps things from getting out of hand.
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Post by General Zod » 2008-09-10 02:10pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Hey, I like separation of church and state. Keeps things from getting out of hand.
Then why exactly are you supporting an anti-choice fundie who belongs to a church with fundie militant connections as Veep?

I'll repeat myself from earlier, which policies does McCain actually have that are superior to Obama's? This should be simple to answer.
"It's you Americans. There's something about nipples you hate. If this were Germany, we'd be romping around naked on the stage here."

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