Blackpowder Shooters, Any Recommendations?

[Aaron]

OK, so my wife and I are looking to get into blackpowder shooting. Due to Canada's rather bizarre firearms legislation I can purchase either an authentic flintlock muzzleloader or a new build replica without registering it, getting a license etc.

So I'm wondering if anyone here has recommendations for a flintlock replica? Ideally I'd like a Baker Rifle, but they have to be imported from the UK and a functionng barrel imported from the US. So I'm looking for a cheaper option.

[Sea Skimmer]

Does the same exception also apply to blackpowder rifles which percussion caps instead of a flintlock? I ask because it might be easier and cheaper to obtain a percussion cap gun as they are generally more common. The added cost of buying the caps is trivial.

[Stormin]

Did you try asking around your local black powder club? You might find a deal there or get to handle several types of guns to find what suits you.

[Aaron]

Does the same exception also apply to blackpowder rifles which percussion caps instead of a flintlock? I ask because it might be easier and cheaper to obtain a percussion cap gun as they are generally more common. The added cost of buying the caps is trivial.

No it doesn't, that's the first thing I looked at. Percussion rifles regardless of era are considered proper firearms and subject to all the same legislation (told you the law was fucked).

Did you try asking around your local black powder club? You might find a deal there or get to handle several types of guns to find what suits you.

There isn't one, that I can find. I am going down to the local range to ask and call the Firearms Centre, mainly to ask about a training course but they should have a recommendation.

I'm asking here because of the large number of firearms owners, who are largely lacking in the retard category.

[Death from the Sea]

OK, so my wife and I are looking to get into blackpowder shooting. Due to Canada's rather bizarre firearms legislation I can purchase either an authentic flintlock muzzleloader or a new build replica without registering it, getting a license etc.

So I'm wondering if anyone here has recommendations for a flintlock replica? Ideally I'd like a Baker Rifle, but they have to be imported from the UK and a functionng barrel imported from the US. So I'm looking for a cheaper option.

so you mention the word "replica" several times, which to me says that it is a non-functional weapon and just a decorative piece or prop, but maybe that is just me.

I did some quick googling and found this web page the rifle shoppe where you can buy the parts and build it yourself. I do not know how this site compares on price versus other places, so you will want to check that first.

I don't know about where you live but here Academy and Wal-Mart stores have the percussion cap black powder rifles on the shelf in plastic packaging, so stuff like that is pretty easy to come by if you want it (and are legal to own a gun).

[The Duchess of Zeon]

There's a company called Traditions which manufactures flintlock muzzle-loaders, but they explicitly say they can't ship to Canada--but perhaps they're sold up there? They have some very nice ones in .50cal, which would be about normal for a flintlock rifle; your bullet is going to be a lot bigger than with any modern firearm.

[Laudon]

Try this site:

www.militaryheritage.com .its canadian.

The weapons lack a drilled went but a gunsmith can do it. AFAIK some European reenactors use them with success.

[Glocksman]

I don't shoot blackpowder, but from friends who do, I came away with the advice to use Pyrodex or other blackpowder substitutes because the fouling produced by blackpowder is very hygroscopic and will corrode a firearm in short order if you're lax about cleaning it.

OTOH, I recall reading that Pyrodex isn't really suited for flintlock arms, so you probably just have to be meticulous about cleaning and maintenance.
Then again, you're a military veteran, so cleaning your arm is probably second nature.

[Aaron]

so you mention the word "replica" several times, which to me says that it is a non-functional weapon and just a decorative piece or prop, but maybe that is just me.

Apparently the Canadian government considers new build flintlocks to be replicas. I was confused as well when I looked into it because it means the same thing to me that it does to you.

I did some quick googling and found this web page the rifle shoppe where you can buy the parts and build it yourself. I do not know how this site compares on price versus other places, so you will want to check that first.

Thank you.

I don't know about where you live but here Academy and Wal-Mart stores have the percussion cap black powder rifles on the shelf in plastic packaging, so stuff like that is pretty easy to come by if you want it (and are legal to own a gun).

Wal*MArt went out of the firearms business in Canada a couple years back.

I don't shoot blackpowder, but from friends who do, I came away with the advice to use Pyrodex or other blackpowder substitutes because the fouling produced by blackpowder is very hygroscopic and will corrode a firearm in short order if you're lax about cleaning it.

OTOH, I recall reading that Pyrodex isn't really suited for flintlock arms, so you probably just have to be meticulous about cleaning and maintenance.
Then again, you're a military veteran, so cleaning your arm is probably second nature.

Pretty much

Thanks to everyone esle as well that I didn't respond to.

[Tsyroc]

My dad has several black powder rifles and guns, most of which I've fired at some point or another. None of the ones he has are flintlocks though. It's too bad that the law doesn't allow for percussion cap weapons where you are. While the flintlocks are more likely to misfire than a percussion weapon I don't think anyone is going to be going on a shooting spree with a single shot muzzle loader that uses caps either.

Anyway, that being said. Black powder is pretty fun to shoot. You get the big ka-wam. The cloud of stinky smoke and the big slow moving bullets that you can kind of visually follow to the target. I like rifles much better than pistols when it comes to single shots. Still, a pistol or pistol kit might be a cheap and fun way to get started. The accuracy/range on them isn't great but they blow up milk jugs full of water real good.

I think there is a more modern powders that will also work in flintlocks but I'm not positive. I think Glocksman is right that Pyrodex doesn't work in flintlocks but I'm pretty sure my dad used some other powders that were closer to real black powder before he started almost exclusively using Pyrodex. It's probably something worth checking into after you get going. Regular black powder is smelly and more corrosive than modern stuff. Plus the modern stuff is usually safer when it comes to storage. Still flammable, just not as explosive.

[Aaron]

My dad has several black powder rifles and guns, most of which I've fired at some point or another. None of the ones he has are flintlocks though. It's too bad that the law doesn't allow for percussion cap weapons where you are. While the flintlocks are more likely to misfire than a percussion weapon I don't think anyone is going to be going on a shooting spree with a single shot muzzle loader that uses caps either.

The law seems designed this way due to the modern percussion rifles that take a breech cap. I guess they figure it would make it easier for a crime spree.

Anyway, that being said. Black powder is pretty fun to shoot. You get the big ka-wam. The cloud of stinky smoke and the big slow moving bullets that you can kind of visually follow to the target. I like rifles much better than pistols when it comes to single shots. Still, a pistol or pistol kit might be a cheap and fun way to get started. The accuracy/range on them isn't great but they blow up milk jugs full of water real good.

Unfortunately the law considers black powder pistols of any design to be real firearms and subjected to the pistol laws (highly restricted).

I think there is a more modern powders that will also work in flintlocks but I'm not positive. I think Glocksman is right that Pyrodex doesn't work in flintlocks but I'm pretty sure my dad used some other powders that were closer to real black powder before he started almost exclusively using Pyrodex. It's probably something worth checking into after you get going. Regular black powder is smelly and more corrosive than modern stuff. Plus the modern stuff is usually safer when it comes to storage. Still flammable, just not as explosive.

We'll definitely be looking into a training course on blackpowder and I'll make sure I ask about it. There's a local gunsmith that probably has a few answers as well.

[Tsyroc]

I emailed my dad about flintlocks and the powder issue and this is his reply.

Flintlocks must use blackpowder for the primer pan, no other choice. But the main charge in the barrel blackpowder, or replica blackpowder may be used. Modern powders are a no-no in this type of gun. There are a few new blackpowder guns that can use modern smokeless powders, Savage makes one, and I believe Knight makes one too, but they are percussion guns, not flintlock.

As to both of them shooting a flintlock, I would definately consider staying below 50 caliber, 40-45 would be my reccomendation. A 45 is adequate for deer at reasonable ranges, and if not loaded to the top doesn't kick horribly. There are also a number of great replica weapon companies, Thompson Center, Pedorsoli, Uberti, to name a few that are very well known and make a good product.

There are also a large number of custom guns out there that run from unbelievable quality and cost, to just plain junk. So use your best judgement, read all you can, and spend wisely.
Good luck and happy shooting.

[Aaron]

Thank you very much Tsyroc and pass them on to your father.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

I think there is a more modern powders that will also work in flintlocks but I'm not positive. I think Glocksman is right that Pyrodex doesn't work in flintlocks but I'm pretty sure my dad used some other powders that were closer to real black powder before he started almost exclusively using Pyrodex. It's probably something worth checking into after you get going. Regular black powder is smelly and more corrosive than modern stuff. Plus the modern stuff is usually safer when it comes to storage. Still flammable, just not as explosive.

We'll definitely be looking into a training course on blackpowder and I'll make sure I ask about it. There's a local gunsmith that probably has a few answers as well.

Pyrodex works just fine in flintlocks . . . after first dropping a five grain charge of standard FFFFg blackpowder down the barrel (with the rest of the charge being Pyrodex,) and filling the priming pan with FFFFg as well. In fact, Pyrodex is very nearly bog-standard black powder with some chemical voodoo added to make it much harder to ignite (and, thus, safer to store.)

The other major black powder substitute is Triple Seven, also from Hodgdon. It's propellant energy comes from the combustion of sugars, as opposed to black powder's charcoal and sulfur. As a result, it cleans up using plain water (which is good, because it doesn't leave any less residue than BP.) However, you need to use the same five grains of FFFFg to get this stuff to light in a flintlock too. But it is hotter than black powder or Pyrodex, so you end up using less for a given load.

And yes, black powder (and Pyrodex too) is mildly corrosive, owing to all that hygroscopic sulfur-containing residue it leaves behind. However, it is only mildly so, and is firmly prevented by prompt cleaning upon returning from a shooting excursion.

[Civil War Man]

I came away with the advice to use Pyrodex or other blackpowder substitutes because the fouling produced by blackpowder is very hygroscopic and will corrode a firearm in short order if you're lax about cleaning it.

OTOH, I recall reading that Pyrodex isn't really suited for flintlock arms, so you probably just have to be meticulous about cleaning and maintenance.

Pyrodex was very frowned upon as a reenactor (of course, we don't actually load bullets, so using real black powder was done primarily so it'd look real). I would say that simply keeping up with cleaning and maintenance to be the better route.

This basically ties into being mindful of the grade of black powder you are using. I can't speak for flintlock, since I use percussion caps, but different rifles may have different requirements as to what kind of black powder is being used.