The Dark Knight (GODDAMN SPOILERS)

[Lonestar]

Yeah. So? Is Selina Kyle that sacred?

It adds nothing to the story and goes out of the way to piss on a decades-old character, is what I think the concern is.

[Havok]

Re-envisioning, not completely re creating or rewriting. None of the characters that Nolan has introduced has strayed all that far from the source material. You are asking for the complete destruction of Selina Kyle and just want to put Talia into a Catwoman suit.

Yeah. So? Is Selina Kyle that sacred?

Considering she was introduced in Batman #1 in 1940 in the same issue the Joker was, yes.

[Schuyler Colfax]

Re-envisioning, not completely re creating or rewriting. None of the characters that Nolan has introduced has strayed all that far from the source material. You are asking for the complete destruction of Selina Kyle and just want to put Talia into a Catwoman suit.

Yeah. So? Is Selina Kyle that sacred?

No, it's just that it completely goes against what Nolan has done so far with the series.

The point of a sequel is for to surpass its predecessor, that includes supassing the villain. I know The Joker is going to be hard to top but, if they can't, they have to get as close has possible. I don't think a revamped Catwoman is going to accomplish that.

[Galvatron]

Yeah. So? Is Selina Kyle that sacred?

It adds nothing to the story and goes out of the way to piss on a decades-old character, is what I think the concern is.

Adds nothing to story? Giving her a plausible motive for seeking revenge against Batman adds nothing? Did it also add nothing when they made Ra's al Ghul his mentor? Did it piss on his character?

[Darth Yoshi]

Hardly. In the comics, Ra's al Ghul originally intended Batman to become his heir.

[Galvatron]

Yeah, but Batman was never his Padawan.

[Havok]

Yeah. So? Is Selina Kyle that sacred?

It adds nothing to the story and goes out of the way to piss on a decades-old character, is what I think the concern is.

Adds nothing to story? Giving her a plausible motive for seeking revenge against Batman adds nothing? Did it also add nothing when they made Ra's al Ghul his mentor? Did it piss on his character?

No, but they didn't merge Ra's and Hugo Strange and basically destroy one of the characters.

[Galvatron]

Again, where's the tragedy in "destroying" the Selina Kyle character by modify her into something greater? Should we also lament the absence of Robin?

[Schuyler Colfax]

Again, where's the tragedy in "destroying" the Selina Kyle character by modify her into something greater? Should we also lament the absence of Robin?

You do realize that these are the early days of Batman. To quote Christopher Nolan Robin is "in a crib, out there somewhere". Besides does anyone want to see Robin, in the Nolan universe?

[Havok]

Yeah, but Batman was never his Padawan.

And the Joker doen't wear white makeup in the comics, but he still has a white face. The outcome is the same by changing a detail that has no bearing on the main point of the character... he is fucking insane and is Batman's opposite.
Having Ra's be Batman's teacher doesn't change the main point of the character which is that he wants Batman as the heir to his empire and that he is in control of an international group that does his bidding.

Again, where's the tragedy in "destroying" the Selina Kyle character by modify her into something greater? Should we also lament the absence of Robin?

Greater because you say so. And the tragedy is that Selina Kyle predates Talia by 30 fucking years and is ingrained in the Batman mythos, where there are people that read comics that don't even know who Talia a Ghul is.

And in case you haven't noticed, Nolan has not strayed that far from the origins of the characters he has used. Some details have been changed or omitted (The Joker's face paint, Ra's age, Dent's transformation ), but a complete wholesale change of a character has not been done, which for some reason you want done with Selina Kyle/Catwoman.

[Galvatron]

I've seen impassioned pleas on other message board from fans who insist that Robin is integral to the Batman mythos. And it's no sillier than the Catwoman purism that I've witnessed here today.

[Galvatron]

Having Ra's be Batman's teacher doesn't change the main point of the character which is that he wants Batman as the heir to his empire and that he is in control of an international group that does his bidding.

That's right. It's a minor detail. And as you said yourself, Catwoman has two defining characteristics: her attraction to Batman and her costume.

One of those characteristics she already has in common with Talia. The other is irrelevant as long as whoever squeezes into the costume looks good in it. Talia al Ghul would. And she can use "Selina Kyle" as an alias to at least pay homage to Catwoman's real name in the source material.

Greater because you say so.

Yes. I don't claim to speak for anyone but myself.

And the tragedy is that Selina Kyle predates Talia by 30 fucking years and is ingrained in the Batman mythos, where there are people that read comics that don't even know who Talia a Ghul is.

So? There are people who read comics who don't even know who Ra's al Ghul is, but that didn't stop Nolan from making him the principal villain in Batman Begins.

And in case you haven't noticed, Nolan has not strayed that far from the origins of the characters he has used. Some details have been changed or omitted (The Joker's face paint, Ra's age, Dent's transformation ), but a complete wholesale change of a character has not been done, which for some reason you want done with Selina Kyle/Catwoman.

I want it done because Talia is more relevant to the established Nolanverse storyline yet the Catwoman character has greater name recognition. And both characters are already similar enough that merging them would require very little effort.

[Ender]

I've seen impassioned pleas on other message board from fans who insist that Robin is integral to the Batman mythos.

They all make me sick. They don't deserve smart, classy, well-made stories; they deserve to be put in giant cribs to play in their own shit while a DVD of 1980s toy cartoons plays endlessly in the background. Baby want He-Man? Okay, Baby watch He-Man while you smear your own feces all over your face.

Baby need di-dee changed.

Pigs.

[CaptainChewbacca]

I've seen impassioned pleas on other message board from fans who insist that Robin is integral to the Batman mythos.

They all make me sick. They don't deserve smart, classy, well-made stories; they deserve to be put in giant cribs to play in their own shit while a DVD of 1980s toy cartoons plays endlessly in the background. Baby want He-Man? Okay, Baby watch He-Man while you smear your own feces all over your face.

Baby need di-dee changed.

Pigs.

I really think we need to fund Ender's career as a film critic. It will be awesome, until someone stabs him.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Edit: Does anyone think there's ANYONE out there who would make a decent new Joker, or has Ledger done such a job that nobody will ever see anything like it again?

[Havok]

Having Ra's be Batman's teacher doesn't change the main point of the character which is that he wants Batman as the heir to his empire and that he is in control of an international group that does his bidding.

That's right. It's a minor detail. And as you said yourself, Catwoman has two defining characteristics: her attraction to Batman and her costume.

Yes and Talia has a defining characteristic too. She is not Catwoman. In fact she prides herself on being Talia a Ghul, and would find it beneath her to dress up like a catwoman for any reason.

One of those characteristics she already has in common with Talia. The other is irrelevant as long as whoever squeezes into the costume looks good in it. Talia al Ghul would. And she can use "Selina Kyle" as an alias to at least pay homage to Catwoman's real name in the source material.

Greater because you say so.

Yes. I don't claim to speak for anyone but myself.

And the tragedy is that Selina Kyle predates Talia by 30 fucking years and is ingrained in the Batman mythos, where there are people that read comics that don't even know who Talia a Ghul is.

So? There are people who read comics who don't even know who Ra's al Ghul is, but that didn't stop Nolan from making him the principal villain in Batman Begins.

That's true, but his status as a manipulator of men is why he was chosen. Talia is a pointless character without Ra's, where Catwoman can stand on her own.

And in case you haven't noticed, Nolan has not strayed that far from the origins of the characters he has used. Some details have been changed or omitted (The Joker's face paint, Ra's age, Dent's transformation ), but a complete wholesale change of a character has not been done, which for some reason you want done with Selina Kyle/Catwoman.

I want it done because Talia is more relevant to the established Nolanverse storyline yet the Catwoman character has greater name recognition. And both characters are already similar enough that merging them would require very little effort.

Then have Talia be Talia. Quite frankly having Talia be Catwoman just to get a hot chick into latex is stupid. I don't know why you feel the need to combine these characters.
And you saying they are similar enough to merge just shows your ignorance of the source material. Talia is an heiress, a child of privilege, wealth and power. She has a worldly upbringing. Selina Kyle, is either an ex hooker, the lost daughter of a scum bag crime boss or just a child of a broken and sad family and upbringing, depending on which crisis DC is currently using to retcon their universe.
Talia's attraction to Batman is due to the fact that she loves his mind and body and, like her father deems him a worthy man to take over for Ra's and to be her lover.
Catwoman's attraction is based on the danger Batman represents. She also feels a connection to him because he understands the duality of personality the both have.

[hongi]

It's impossible. Or near impossible that I don't think anyone should try it because it's just too risky.

Personally, I think they should make this third film its last. Carry on from the end of the second film. He's a wanted man, a fugitive. Batman can't even protect the city anymore because every outing could be his last. I don't understand why there has to be one or two main villains. Make the entire city his enemy.

And I second the call to finish off the Scarecrow subplot. It's necessary.

[Havok]

And I second the call to finish off the Scarecrow subplot. It's necessary.

There really isn't a Scarecrow subplot. He is a criminal with a shtick and thugs. The Batman kicked his ass and arrested him. He will probably escape from Arkham. I hear that happens occasionally.

[SirNitram]

Havekoff, frankly, you sound like someone who freaks out at every movie derived from a popular source, the rampant, frothing purist. You're not sounding very sensible in your objections; the idea of 'Who was introduced first' is a fucking ridiculous standard.

[Anguirus]

Edit: Does anyone think there's ANYONE out there who would make a decent new Joker, or has Ledger done such a job that nobody will ever see anything like it again?

Difficult question. I don't think Ledger's performance prevents other takes on Joker. I DO think, though, that any attempt to mimic his Joker will be seen as crass. This leads to the conclusion that the Joker should not be used in the next Nolanverse movie.

If the Joker is ever recast, it should be in a time-advanced story, sort of a "Dark Knight Returns" kind of thing. Then you could change the Joker's look and mannerisms enough to justify a recasting, without seeming tasteless.

[Mlenk]

Yeah, something kinda like the Bruce Wayne: Fugitive graphic novel could work pretty well in the new Nolanverse movies.

[Galvatron]

Havekoff, frankly, you sound like someone who freaks out at every movie derived from a popular source, the rampant, frothing purist. You're not sounding very sensible in your objections; the idea of 'Who was introduced first' is a fucking ridiculous standard.

That's why I'm now conceding the argument. I'll call Nolan right now and have him cancel the change.

[Havok]

Havekoff, frankly, you sound like someone who freaks out at every movie derived from a popular source, the rampant, frothing purist. You're not sounding very sensible in your objections; the idea of 'Who was introduced first' is a fucking ridiculous standard.

Shut the fuck up. That is hardly the only objection I have to the idea I have of combining two completely separate characters into one. If I was a purist as you say, I would have "freaked out" because The Joker wasn't dumped in acid or because Dent didn't get acid thrown on his face to turn him into Two-Face.

[Havok]

Havekoff, frankly, you sound like someone who freaks out at every movie derived from a popular source, the rampant, frothing purist. You're not sounding very sensible in your objections; the idea of 'Who was introduced first' is a fucking ridiculous standard.

That's why I'm now conceding the argument. I'll call Nolan right now and have him cancel the change.

Pussy.

[Galvatron]

But I'm still right. I'm just taking my ball and going home.