Armageddon???? - Part Eighty One Up

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Post by Junghalli » 2008-06-16 08:52pm

Because to do otherwise is irrational and as far as I'm concerned selfish. You're choosing to save less people for no other reason than that they happen to be important to you (or that they happen to have your tribalist loyalty, in the case of humanity as a whole).

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Post by Adrian Laguna » 2008-06-16 08:59pm

Starglider wrote:Of course there is a significant minority of humans here in favour of an entirely pre-emptive relativistic kill vehicle strike, who probably still think they have superior ethics.
I would be in favour of it if there was some way to make sure that by doing it we would be the last species standing. Realistically, starting to pre-emptively kill of every other sentient species just means that the rest of the universe now has a common enemy, us. Advocating pre-emptive xenocide may not imply ethical superiority, but it does imply stupidity.

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Post by Darth Wong » 2008-06-16 10:29pm

Starglider wrote:Very few people try to formalize ethics in a consistent manner, and the result is so unwieldy that it isn't practical to use on a day-to-day basis.
There is no reason why it must be unwieldy. At a bare minimum, in virtually all practical situations, one need only retain the capacity to genuinely sympathize with the suffering of others in order to chart a reasonably ethical path in life. It is, on some levels, almost breathtakingly simple. In many ways, the more complicated an ethics system is, the worse it is. Judaism, for example, has an extremely complex set of rules and regulations, whereas utilitarianism has only a single guiding principle.
That said I would still be interested to hear what ethical system you would instill in a sentient creature (species, even) that you were creating from scratch.
It's interesting that you leapt to the classification of species when attempting to group a new type of sentient creature, even while deriding species-centric ethics as arbitrary :wink:
In this case there is no room for hand-waving, you must specify exactly how this ethical system is supposed to work, or evolution will fill in the gaps with fairly arbitrary results.

Actually this is almost on topic, in the sense that the demon and angel societies we see here seem to be to a large extent designed - in the later case probably to Yahweh's master plan. Do you think you could do better?
I doubt you could design an ethics system into living organisms. That's too complex to design as instinct. The best you could do is a slightly modified version of the social pack animal instincts we have: one in which the natural perceived family unit size is much larger.
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Post by Darth Ruinus » 2008-06-16 10:44pm

Junghalli wrote:Because to do otherwise is irrational
Choosing to have your own species wiped out in favor of a different one is irrational.
and as far as I'm concerned selfish.
Selfish? I dont know about that, but its not irrational or unethical, as Darth Wong and Stuart have argued.
You're choosing to save less people for no other reason than that they happen to be important to you
Its either my family (species) or their family (species) I dont see why you are making this more complicated than it needs to be.
(or that they happen to have your tribalist loyalty, in the case of humanity as a whole).
Again, I dont see how this is so complicated. The survival of your species comes before the survival of any other species.
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Post by K. A. Pital » 2008-06-16 11:19pm

Choosing to have your own species wiped out in favor of a different one is irrational.
If both species have similar higher intelligence levels, would utilitarianism not favour the lesser one dying? :?

If you go by the reduction of suffering, and it's a dilemma choice, the deaths of smaller numbers vs. the deaths of greater numbers mean a reduction of suffering and represent the moral choice.

The same principle usually works in war, we rarely think generously of victorious powers who then proceed to annihilate the defeated nation's population to the brink of extinction, do we?

In the oft-used WWII example, the Allied powers killed far less civilians in the Reich than the Nazis themselves killed; would we look at their actions as moral all the same if they genocided the hell out of Germany killing all 90 million citizens of the Reich Old Testament-style?
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Post by Darth Ruinus » 2008-06-16 11:30pm

Stas Bush wrote: If both species have similar higher intelligence levels, would utilitarianism not favour the lesser one dying? :?
I guess from a detatched third person view it might, but this is a choice between my species and theirs. I would always go with my own species.
One race doesnt just sit down and die because the other is smarter.
If you go by the reduction of suffering, and it's a dilemma choice, the deaths of smaller numbers vs. the deaths of greater numbers mean a reduction of suffering and represent the moral choice.
If it was up to me, I would chose my species, even if it has less people. Because thats the ethical thing to do, and wouldnt letting your own species die be an immoral choice?
The same principle usually works in war, we rarely think generously of victorious powers who then proceed to annihilate the defeated nation's population to the brink of extinction, do we?

In the oft-used WWII example, the Allied powers killed far less civilians in the Reich than the Nazis themselves killed; would we look at their actions as moral all the same if they genocided the hell out of Germany killing all 90 million citizens of the Reich Old Testament-style?
Sure, but this is about a scenario in which the enemy has stated that they will not stop until we are completely and utterly eradicated from the world. Sure, its ethical to kill them as fast as possible, but if they are beaten and practically giving up, then they pose no real threat to you anymore, then it doesnt make sense to keep kililng them.
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Post by Junghalli » 2008-06-16 11:36pm

Darth Ruinus wrote:Choosing to have your own species wiped out in favor of a different one is irrational.
By the logic of Darwinism certainly, but Darwinism would make a spectacularly horrible ethical system.

For me it's simply a question of being consistent with my own belief that all sapient life has the same intrinsic value. Hence, a human and an alien life would have the same intrinsic value. Following from that premise, if given the choice between saving a small number of humans or a large number of aliens I will choose to save the large number of aliens. To do otherwise would be to treat a human life as having greater inherent value than an alien life, which is contradictory to my ethical system. Choosing between humanity and an alien species is the same; I see no reason why it need be treated as anything other than an exercise in choosing the greatest good for the greatest number.

Of course, this is in principle. In practice what I would consider the most ethical option would vary depending on the exact nature of the choice. If we were fighting a more numerous genocidal alien species I would have nothing against doing whatever had to be done to insure our survival (though I would hope we would not have to resort to genocide ourselves).

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Post by Darth Wong » 2008-06-16 11:42pm

Junghalli wrote:For me it's simply a question of being consistent with my own belief that all sapient life has the same intrinsic value.
I hope you're vehemently against the death penalty, then. The fact is that we generally consider a sapient individual's life to be worth less if he is a murderous person, and it's not really difficult to make an ethical case for this kind of valuation. The elimination of such people would, in the long run, actually result in less suffering and loss of utility. The biggest argument against it is the difficulty of identification.

The kind of species that would attempt to completely exterminate another species is arguably a net-negative value to the greater society of sapient beings in this hypothetical scenario. Of course, the same could be said of us if we're in the habit of pre-emptively exterminating other species.
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Post by K. A. Pital » 2008-06-16 11:50pm

Sure, its ethical to kill them as fast as possible, but if they are beaten and practically giving up, then they pose no real threat to you anymore, then it doesnt make sense to keep kililng them.
In short, the killing is as much and as necessary as needed to defeat them and prevent your own destruction, but not more.

You could've said that instead of indulging into discussions of whether "enemy" species costs as much as yours does, because the same logic could be applied to the world with nationalism and racism being the very obvious consequences of your system.

In the case of demons who want to kill all humans, that's pretty much established, but in the case of, say, a war with aliens provoked not by their or our genocidal intent, but by some leadership failure or whatnot, the issue is not so clear cut.
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Post by Junghalli » 2008-06-16 11:54pm

Darth Wong wrote:I hope you're vehemently against the death penalty, then. The fact is that we generally consider a sapient individual's life to be worth less if he is a murderous person, and it's not really difficult to make an ethical case for this kind of valuation. The elimination of such people would, in the long run, actually result in less suffering and loss of utility. The biggest argument against it is the difficulty of identification.
Actually yes, for the most part I am against the death penalty, but I feel I should add a modifier. I believe sapient life to be of equal inherent value, but I also believe that people's rights (including the right to life) stop being sacrosanct when they act to deprive others of those rights. If somebody's trying to kill me I'd feel no shame or guilt in using lethal force against them if it was necessary.

Same applies to species. If somebody was trying to wipe out humanity I'd feel no guilt in using whatever force was necessary to defeat them, although ideally I would prefer if it involved the minimum possible number of deaths.

You also have a good point about stopping murderous people, one that had occurred to me as well. Killing a murderer may well be good in the sense that if he wasn't killed he would have gone on to kill other people. The same can be said for some race of genocidal psychopaths pre-emptively flinging .9 c missiles at every communicating civilization they detect.

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Post by PainRack » 2008-06-17 07:01am

Stuart wrote:For the same reason that the B-52 Arclight was held back until the right moment; the idea was to pack as many possible victims into the kill zone. The harpies are a difficult target, they're very agile and if they weren't pinned down (in this case around the defenses) the effectiveness of gas would be quite limited. If the enemy army was dispersed, likewise for the B-52 strike. The stalled attack piled a large part of the baldrick army into an excellent target for teh ultra-destructive bombing. Note that chemical weapons (contrary to myth) aren't actually very effective in a killing sense. What they mostly do is severely degrade the enemy defenses by forcing them to use the countermeasures (suits, masks etc) rather than degarde by means of casualties. It's our old friend virtual attrition again. In this engagement, the intention is to inflict mass casualties as quickly as possible - remember human forces are horribly outnumbered (almost 50 to one) so the situation has to be manipulated so that weapons are used to maximum effects. remember also, human weapons run out of ammunition, Baldrick ones, mostly, do not.
Unfortunately, would that be how the world mass media/armchair generals and analysts see it?
That's a question that's worrying armies today. Lot of discussion about it in military halls. The problem is that the news media, in America at least, do not pay much attention to persuasion not to publish sensitive data, in fact they take delight in doing so. If you've got a good answer, please let the Pentagon hear it, they'd love to have one.
I wish I have one too:D

Just wondering about the circumstances if such a thing happened in real life. We certainly would see such reporting trends happen now if a demon/alien invasion took place. However, the American and other governments involved have much more popular and political power to directly suppress negative reports and a surfeit of good news.
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Post by JN1 » 2008-06-17 08:03am

However, the American and other governments involved have much more popular and political power to directly suppress negative reports and a surfeit of good news.
Depends what emergency powers are in force. For example in the UK the government can in an emergency control what news is allowed to be put out by the BBC and ITV.

O/T and appropos of nothing, but Mao is apparently the Chinese for 'meow' so he was Chairman Meow. :D
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Post by Wyrm » 2008-06-17 09:54am

JN1 wrote:O/T and appropos of nothing, but Mao is apparently the Chinese for 'meow' so he was Chairman Meow. :D
Actually, the "mao" in Chairman Mao means 'hair.' Different tone — changing the tone gives "cat". But I agree, Chairman Meow is good pun.
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Post by JN1 » 2008-06-17 10:16am

Wyrm wrote:
JN1 wrote:O/T and appropos of nothing, but Mao is apparently the Chinese for 'meow' so he was Chairman Meow. :D
Actually, the "mao" in Chairman Mao means 'hair.' Different tone — changing the tone gives "cat". But I agree, Chairman Meow is good pun.
I guess it depends on the pronounciation; for example there was a panda whose name either meant 'naughty little girl', or 'prostitue', depending on how it was pronounced. It was the basis of a question on BBC2's 'QI' a while back.
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Post by Stuart » 2008-06-17 02:44pm

Free Hell, Swamps by the River Styx, Fifth Ring of Hell

Human laughter was not a common commodity in hell. Demonic laughter was, but human mirth was rare in the extreme. So, the sound of three humans laughing uproariously struck Lieutenant (deceased) Jade Kim as worth investigating. Even as she made that decision, it struck her that she too had not laughed for a very long time.

“Whoever these people are, they certainly got you right eh Titus?” Caesar was wiping his eyes clear of the tears that helpless laughter had caused. The three men were gathered around a small portable DVD player, one whose eight-inch screen was showing the end credits from an episode of the HBO series ‘Rome”.

“Yeah, but Atia? She was to busy praying and trying to be sanctimonious to get up to any of that stuff. Now, if they’d said she was Fulvia….”

“Enjoying the show gentlemen?” Kim’s voice cut through the end music.

“Very much thank you. I was quite flattered by my depiction.” Caesar leaned back and started to sort through the disks for the next episode.

“I wasn’t. Bit harsh I thought.” Pullo’s expression belied his words, Kim got the impression he also was impressed by the television show. “And it got my army life really wrong.”

“That’s true Titus, you didn’t need to get drunk to do some really stupid things. You nearly got us both killed over and over again without the aid of bad wine.” Lucius Vorenus wasn’t laughing, his voice was quiet and melancholy.

“Yeah, but if we hadn’t kept going, the gods wouldn’t have taken a fancy to us and we wouldn’t have gained their protection here would we.” Pullo’s chin jutted out, then his voice softened. “They got Niobe right didn’t they.”

Vorenus nodded. “She didn’t have to do it. If I hadn’t lost my temper, she’d would have lived.”

“And so would I, Lucius.” Caesar’s voice was shot with mock severity. “Getting killed wasn’t in my plans for the day you know.”

“She’s down here somewhere Lucius.” Kim tried to sound comforting. “She would have ended up here anyway as far as I can tell. We’ll find her and then you two can make your peace. If you want to.”

That was a good point and everybody around knew it. Sooner or later it was going to have to be addressed, what would happen when couples who had been married were reunited. Would they want to be? Kim quickly considered the problems Henry VIII was likely to face and shuddered. Then she was aware of Caesar sitting close to her in an uncomfortably familiar way. That fitted what she knew of him from the histories, ‘every woman’s husband and every husband’s wife’ had been one of the ancient barbs thrown in his general direction.

“What happened to Servilia? Did she really die like that?”

“Nah, she outlived the lot of them.” Kim paused. “Gaius, you know what happens to women when they arrive down here?” Caesar nodded, guessing where this was going. “Well, I got all torn up inside.”

“We all heal fast down here Jade. We’re not the same bodies we had on Earth, look the same but we’re not. Your wounds have healed.”

“Not the ones up here.” She tapped her head. “I still feel all torn up. So, Gaius, no. Thank you, but, just, no.” Then she smiled quickly. “But I do have one thing to ask of you, personal favor?”

“Anything for the beautiful woman who has brought hope to hell.”

“I got my copies of ‘The Gallic War’ and ‘The Civil War’ brought through when I heard you were coming. Could you sign them for me?”

Caesar chuckled. “Of course. I….” Then he was interrupted by McInery entering the cave, very fast.

“Ell-tee, got a radio message came in, top urgency.” He handed over a slip with the message printed on it. Kim read it and went white.

“Gaius, we got a problem. One of the Spec Ops teams down in the Sixth Circle has sent in a sighting report. There’s a major force of Baldricks, some 30,000 strong with about 1,500 harpies, moving along the Sixth Circle boundary towards us. They’re the other side of the wall at the moment but they can pass through the gates any point they want to. They’ll be here in two days, perhaps three.”

The amiable smile fell from Caesar’s face and suddenly he was the military commander known to history. “They’re coming here?”

“Pretty sure of it, nowhere else they could be going with a force like that. If they link up with the forces we have on either side of us, we got real problems.”

“Why would they want to do that? You’ve already stalled the demons there. They’ll hit the river flank. How many men do you have?”

“I’ve got about a hundred soldiers trained to handle modern weapons. That’s it.”

Caesar smiled at the emphasis on ‘soldiers’ rather than ‘men’ but let it pass. “So you can’t fortify the river boundary properly. I can get some people here, a thousand or more in a day or so and five thousand in two or three, but they won’t help much.”

“They won’t help at all, we haven’t a chance to train them to use rifles and we haven’t got the equipment for them even if we could. Humans don’t stand much of a chance against baldricks without them. Still, the river’s still on our side.”

The comment made Caesar’s mouth twist in despair. He kept forgetting that this woman was a Lieutenant only, she was a junior officer and had the training to match. In other words, not very much. “Jade, in Gaul I threw a bridge over the Rhine in a couple of days. The Rhine is bigger and faster flowing that the Styx. This river barrier you’re putting so much hope on counts for very little in the scheme of things. You need all your ….. soldiers …. to hold the two end flanks. You can’t defend that river as well. If the enemy has 30,000 troops coming in, you’re done. Time to get out of here.”

“Can’t do it. We’ve got civilians here now, we have to get them out, and the dead we’ve rescued, we can’t hand them over”

“Ell-tee, the British want a word with you, they ran the special ops team that got this warning to us. They say they have some suggestions.”

British Expeditionary Force HQ, Camp Hell-Alpha, Hell

“Are you sure this is a good idea Sir?”

“Can you think of a better one?”

“Honestly Sir, yes. We’ve got the lift, evacuate the place.”

“Not good enough. Look, Colonel, Free Hell and the PFLH is about the only successful insurgency we’ve got running in Hell. Oh, the other groups are operating there, but they’ve all got tied down rescuing the prisoners and so on. Very estimable and good work but it isn’t actually fighting Hell. Only the PFLH have done that and they’re entirely an American operation. So, while the Spams run around making decisions, we do something to help the people on the sharp end. That way we get to muscle in on their operation, even take it over if everything goes right. The PFLH is run by a Lieutenant, so we send in 2 Para and its got a Colonel, you, in charge. That makes you the ranking officer on scene and puts you in command. And, once we’re in we stay in – with you in command. We’re doing them a big favor inside, that Lieutenant has done well but she’s way out of her depth. They need military expertise in there if they are going to survive.

“We’ve got Chinooks and Merlins to lift your battalion in. You’ll have Typhoon and Tornados for escort, more Tornados and Jags to give air support one everything drops in the pot.”

“Very good Sir.”

“Move out as soon as you can. And remember, you are the ranking officer down there.”

B-1B “Dragon Slayer” 128th Bomb Squadron, Georgia Air National Guard, Approaching Dis

“Everything dialed in?” Major Curtis Trafford looked at his WSO and got a thumbs up by way of response. The four B-1Bs were in a loose, finger-four formation, cruising at 29,000 feet. The discovery that the air was clear up here had been a major advantage but it also meant that their target was lost in the rolling clouds of red dust underneath. The mapping radar was doing a good job of penetrating it though, the city of Dis was ahead of them and the long spur that stuck out into the great caldera of Hell showed up clearly. Their target was where that spur ended in a rounded promontory, for in the center of that feature was Satan’s palace.

Detroit was to be avenged and the United States Air Force did not take its revenge by striking at the inconsequential As many consumer advocates had put it, ‘if you want action, go right to the top’. There was another saying as well, ‘for delicate work, get a bigger hammer’. The hammer hanging under Dragon Slayer was the biggest conventional hammer the United States had at its disposal. The Massive Ordnance Penetrator, a 30,000 pound bomb capable of tearing its way through at least 130 feet of moderately hard rock. What it would so to the rock Dis was built on was an interesting question. The hope was that it would collapse the whole spur and drop Satan, complete with his palace, right into the center of Hell.

The MOPs had been modified for this mission, normally they were GPS guided but the global positioning system was useless in Hell. No satellites and it was not certain whether there was anywhere for a satellite to fly or even anything for them to orbit. Hell wasn’t Kansas. Instead, the bombs had been equipped with an inertial system that was supposed to prevent them wandering off a true trajectory. That left the aiming job in the hands of the B-1s radar.

“We’ve got a radar picture now. The spur’s showing up really clearly. Also showing was the red carat that marked the predicted impact point of the MOP. All four bombers were on slightly converging courses and the intention was that all four bombs should hit Satan’s palace at the same instant.

Beast Stables, City of Dis

“Take care of that wyvern. Feed him carefully, do not let him bloat. If he is made sick I will flay you alive and have you eat your own skin.”

The orc blanched slightly and took the reins of the Wyvern away from Belial. In the back of the orc’s stunted mind, a memory stirred of the time before these creatures had come. Perhaps it was a genetic memory, perhaps the effect of stories quietly whispered in the dark of night, but there were memories nonetheless. Of a time when the orcs had been free and this had been their home. Before the demons had come, before the great eruption that had poisoned everything. Now, there were more whispers in the darkness, more words on the wind. Words that said the millennia of slavery to the demons was ending, that the demons had taken on a force to powerful even for them to handle. Words that said the orcs might be free again. And these words were backed by the thunder that never stopped, the thunder that came from the Phlegethon River.

Belial also heard the thunder of the Russian Artillery but it hardly registered. He had other things on his mind, how to present what had happened to his best advantage. He had fulfilled his promise all right, he had identified the two great arsenals of the humans and destroyed them both. The problem was that half his naga were dead and the rest were crippled, stunned by the accident that had taken place during the Dee-Troyt attack. He knew what was the cause of that of course, the other lords had been told to send him their best covens of naga but what they had actually supplied was their youngest and least-experienced. Lying crippled in her sick-bed, Baroness Yalupki had told him of the trouble in getting the inexperienced naga to sing in chorus and how that had caused the portal to flare out of control. Thought of the crippled naga in her sick-bed made Belial think quickly of Euryale but he dismissed the matter. She was a gorgon, in the final analysis replaceable. If she did die of her wounds, she could be replaced with a new consort, one more fitting to be seen at Satan’s Court. In the back of his mind was an uneasy idea that it all wouldn’t be quite that easy.

He shook himself and walked on. The highway to Satan’s palace, gleaming red-gold as its bronze plating reflected the fires of the hell-pit below, lead along the promontory towards the domed island ahead. As always, Belial looked down at the tiers beneath, the nine great rings separated by high walls that defined Hell itself. Once he had been banished from the city to the wilds of the North and it had taken millennia to worm his way back in, and then only as something barely more than a court jester. Now he was entering as a potential great lord. One who would bask in the favor of Satan himself. Yes, the attacks on Sheffield and Dee-Troyt had gone very well indeed. All that he needed to do was to convince Satan of that.

Third Platoon, Second Company, Third Battalion, Fourth Regiment, 247th Motor Rifle Division, Phlegethon River Front, Hell

“Halt” The order was abrupt and there was a tremor of fear in it. The three BMPs approaching the decontamination facility had been right under the Sarin gas cloud that had scoured the harpies from the battlefield. They were doubtless soaked in nerve gas and there was no way anybody here was going to take chances. To either side of the vehicles, high-pressure hoses were already pumping out thick streams of alkaline slurry to coat the BMPs in their white paste. Then, a truck backed up, a jet engine on its back. The exhaust was played over the outside of the armored carriers, swiftly raising the temperatures to almost-intolerable levels. Almost, but not quite and the temperature was needed to hydrolyse the residue of nerve gas on the BMPs. Eventually, the jet engines and the sprays had done their work. Detector waved over the carriers remained silent and Pas’kov’s little command was ordered to one side.

Yet, the work wasn’t done. They opened the hatches on the BMPs and the crews scrambled out, only to be sprayed with alkaline slurry and brushed down with brooms. Once again, the detectors remained silent and, at last, Pas’kov and his men could remove their chemical warfare suits.

“Well done Bratischka.” A Captain was standing to one side, his own suit still on. “You have fought as heroes today. We will repair your vehicles and send you back soon but until then you can rest. We have vodka for you, and fresh food.” Behind them, a group of men were being lead away, gently but firmly. They looked healthy but they moved with the shaking, trembling slowness of very old men. The Captain looked at them sadly. “They were not so lucky. Their radio was down and they did not get the word about the gas. Harpies had breached the seals on their vehicles and they were contaminated, They used their antidotes but…..” He shook his head.

Pas’kov knew what he meant. The atropine and pralidoxime injector had saved their lives but now they were old men in their twenties and would never be anything more. The gas had slaughtered the harpies in a way no other weapon could but it had costs all of its own.

Assembly Area, Southern Flank, Phlegethon River Front
Major Evgenii Yakovlevich Galkin looked at the boxy vehicle next to his tank. One with red mottling applied over its dark gray paint, just as his was mottled with red over its moss-green. The tank looked huge beside his sleek, curved T-90 but there was more to that to fill Galkin with unease. The tank was German.

“Tovarish major” The voice calling from below was in atrocious Russian, the accent making the simple words almost unintelligible. Still, Galkin understood and dropped off the turret of his tank to where the German was waiting.

“Soon we will fight together. I just wanted to wish you good hunting.” The words were a lot better this time, Galkin guessed that the German had carefully rehearsed the phrase in an attempt to be friendly. Time to respond. Galkin’s German was better that the German’s Russian.

“May you have a good bag and a safe hunt.”

The German beamed in response, then caught the Russian looking at the Leopard. “Have you seen a Leopard II before?”

“Only at our tank museum in Kubinka. This is the first one I have seen on service.” The German officer’s eyebrows twitched, there wasn’t supposed to be a Leopard II at Kubinka. How had the Russians got hold of one? “Is this the first Russian tank you have seen?”

“For me yes. My father, he saw many of course.”

“In the Great Patriotic War?”

“He fought at Prokhorovka. With the Panzers, Heer, not SS.”

Galkin nodded. Odd coincidence. “My father also fought at Prokohorovka. And later.”

There was a long silence, neither man quite certain what to say next. Eventually Galkin spoke carefully. “Our fathers caused great destruction, between them, at Prokhorovka. Now we can join together and inflict the same those who threaten us both.”

The German nodded. “We can. As soon as our commanders let us off the leash.”
Nations do not survive by setting examples for others
Nations survive by making examples of others

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Post by Hawkwings » 2008-06-17 02:57pm

Awesome stuff, as usual. The crippling of the Russian soldiers brings up interesting implications. Would they choose to "die" and be reborn in Hell, fully functional except for the not going back to Earth part?
Vendetta wrote:Richard Gatling was a pioneer in US national healthcare. On discovering that most soldiers during the American Civil War were dying of disease rather than gunshots, he turned his mind to, rather than providing better sanitary conditions and medical care for troops, creating a machine to make sure they got shot faster.

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Post by CaptainChewbacca » 2008-06-17 03:10pm

Its good to see old rivals working together. Now all we need are some Polish tankers :-D
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You kinda look like Jesus. With a lightsaber.- Peregrin Toker
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Post by Peptuck » 2008-06-17 03:14pm

MOABs on Dis, orcs hinting at rebellion, and the Brits about to become Big Damn heroes.

Stuart, this chapter was nothing but teasing. Awesome, awesome teasing.
X-COM: Defending Earth by blasting the shit out of it.

Writers are people, and people are stupid. So, a large chunk of them have the IQ of beach pebbles. ~fgalkin

You're complaining that the story isn't the kind you like. That's like me bitching about the lack of ninjas in Robin Hood. ~CaptainChewbacca

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Post by DarthShady » 2008-06-17 03:25pm

Great chapter.:D

Belial chose a bad time to be visiting Dis. :twisted:

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Post by GrandMasterTerwynn » 2008-06-17 03:30pm

DarthShady wrote:Great chapter.:D

Belial chose a bad time to be visiting Dis. :twisted:
Or a very, very good time. Depends on when the bombs land.

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Post by CaptainChewbacca » 2008-06-17 03:35pm

GrandMasterTerwynn wrote:
DarthShady wrote:Great chapter.:D

Belial chose a bad time to be visiting Dis. :twisted:
Or a very, very good time. Depends on when the bombs land.
Indeed, if there's a decapitation strike that misses him, he can grab emergency power in the confusion and cement his hold on the city while all the power-players are on the Phlegethon.
Stuart: The only problem is, I'm losing track of which universe I'm in.
You kinda look like Jesus. With a lightsaber.- Peregrin Toker
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Post by Peptuck » 2008-06-17 03:46pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:
GrandMasterTerwynn wrote:
DarthShady wrote:Great chapter.:D

Belial chose a bad time to be visiting Dis. :twisted:
Or a very, very good time. Depends on when the bombs land.
Indeed, if there's a decapitation strike that misses him, he can grab emergency power in the confusion and cement his hold on the city while all the power-players are on the Phlegethon.
Alternately, he looks at the biggest kabang the humans have flung at them yet, puts two and two together, and realizes that once the humans figure out who it was that dropped a couple of volcanos on them, he might be catching a few of these himself.
X-COM: Defending Earth by blasting the shit out of it.

Writers are people, and people are stupid. So, a large chunk of them have the IQ of beach pebbles. ~fgalkin

You're complaining that the story isn't the kind you like. That's like me bitching about the lack of ninjas in Robin Hood. ~CaptainChewbacca

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Post by fb111a » 2008-06-17 03:57pm

The MOPs are nice... but where are the cluster bombs with AP mines to really salt the earth (figuratively speaking, of course)?

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Post by Raesene » 2008-06-17 04:06pm

I hope Belial survives the attack that's going to drop Satan into hell...
So the Orcs are the natives - did I miss a chapter where humans met them already ?

Thanks for having the Romans watch Rome - I'd expected Caesar to be very interested in his reputation and depiction throughout history. Kim chose a nice way of sweetening the refusal, although I'm not sure he'd be familiar with the concept of autographs.

Henry VIII will not have a happy family reunion, that's sure.

EDIT: spelling

"In view of the circumstances, Britannia waives the rules."

"All you have to do is to look at Northern Ireland, [...] to see how seriously the religious folks take "thou shall not kill. The more devout they are, the more they see murder as being negotiable." George Carlin

"We need to make gay people live in fear again! What ever happened to the traditional family values of persecution and lies?" - Darth Wong
"The closet got full and some homosexuals may have escaped onto the internet?"- Stormbringer


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Post by Setzer » 2008-06-17 04:16pm

I had some wierd mental image of famous historical people with groupies. Would that technically be necrophilia?
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