That's rather like saying owning an encyclopaedia is the same thing as having a fully living and breathing civilization. I mean, clearly the Roman Empire hasn't really fallen, we have all manner of records about it and making new humans is pretty easy...

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[img=left]http://www.angelfire.com/weird2/ifmonline/jabread2.JPG[/img]Check out TREKWARS (not involving furries!)

EVIL BRIT CONSPIRACY: Son of York; bringing glorious summer to the winter of your discontent.

KNIGHTS ASTRUM CLADES: I am a holy knight! Or something rhyming with knight, anyway...

A big breast redeems the world, and I believe firmly so. - Some random Japanese guy

Yeah yeah whatever, he's the only Time Lord left if you ignore all that technology that allows him to create more Time Lords at will. It's like saying the Daleks never returned because they made more! Not original! Lost tech! Suddenly religious!

Time Lords /= Gallifrey, or Time Lord culture, or time scoops. You're saying the Doctor is plausibly a lonely guy when he can cook up arbitrary numbers of Time Lords at will. So lonely so long as he stays away from cloning machines, lololololololololol. The Master didn't bring back Gallifrey or their tech base or even a broad curriculum of Time Lord science and culture either.

Sorry, I forgot it was our job to make excuses for bad writing. Clearly this episode was not a steaming pile of fanservice at all?

Christ, that was horrible. 'Fucking awful' is the best term to describe this season, it's like the writers are TRYING to get worse each episode. I am both dreading the finale, and looking forward to it, just to see how bad they can get.

And poor old Martha. Relegated to crying and being useless AGAIN. You'd think the writing team hates Freema Agyeman or something. I actually found Tate to be less annoying than usual this week for some reason, probably due to the fact that she didn't do the 'Take me home, no wait...' routine this time.

So overall, another crap episode in a line of crap episodes.

Are you suggesting that his 'new Gallifrey in the heavens' was something but rampant insanity?

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I actually liked this episode. Somehow I feel that the writers tried this time.

I think the reason why the Doctor didn't stay or account for the regeneration thing, is emotion. It was very confusing for him, one moment he's a father of a clone, he first dislikes the clone then manages to grow on him a bit then the clone is killed. I think he deliberetly wanted not to attach feelings to her. That's why he didn't go all "wrath of a Time Lord".

It would make sense for Hath to not be a clone and be the man in charge. He does seem like the pyschotic powermonger that was quite willing to distort reality for his favour. After all, the clones would think less if they too believed that they have been fighting for generations rather then for 7 days (which was indeed a bit of a strech and a bit too mythological for my taste).

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"You can wait for your great Lord all you want.
What does not exist, will not come.
Recant and quote the book of old fables, laws and myths as you wish.
It's truth is still little or none."
-Arthur Bandal

What a terrible stupid stupid stupid episode, horribly rushed and completely packed with unnecessary and utterly moronic things.

For instance what the fuck was that laser thing supposed to be? Why would you have one of those one a colonisation ship? Do they also have corridors full of swinging knife edged pendulums, lava pits...?

It's probably to keep the robot workers out of the human zone. You know those Dr Who robots.

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Superior Moderator - BotM - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"You have the opportunity here and now to choose, to become something greater and nobler and more difficult than you have been before. The universe does not offer such chances often."
Avatar: Vorlon, Vorl Aspect

Perhaps a way of protecting himself .... the Time War fucked him up good and proper, we saw how he reacted when the Master, the only other living Time Lord, let himself die

Then there's the line "I've been a father before" ..... he's lost so many people he cared about that he's scared to let anyone close to him, or to care about anyone else
His hold on sanity is precarious and fragile as it is, the pain of loss may push him right over the edge .. so he keeps himself back

Grow some consistency, fanboy. First you say cloning a bunch of Time Lords isn't enough because you don't have the trappings of old Time Lord-yness, and now you say some crazy guy with rockets and a flying aircraft carrier is okay. Where were the silly hats? 1 angry man with university degree = Time Lord culture, now?

I can build a steam engine. Clearly, a new United States in the heavens! The Master is not insane, can be taken 100% literally in dialogue, and was totally going to replicate Omega's stellar manipulation and Rassilon's temporal experiments, and resurrect Time Lord culture (that he hated) and fashion and all.

Oh wait, he built some space ICBMs. 47,000,000,000,000 cloned Time Lords are clearly an inferior replacement, especially from the Doctor's emotional perspective wherein the Master is a FUCKING LUNATIC! Hopefully the writers aren't as retarded as viewers (an interesting toss-up, really) and they won't have the Doctor talk about how 'lonely' he is anymore, now that we know he could generate arbitrary peers at will. Actually, they could play it for the Doctor's hypocrisy; he doesn't want the responsibility of actually restoring the Time Lords but he'll whinge about it anyway. 'I don't want to be a father wah wah wah' etc.

Zixinus has a good point. It's pretty characteristic for the Doctor to flee at the point he did, particularly given his declining emotional state. The show just needs a Time Lord Babies spin-off. We all know Time Lords come from looms anyway.

This show is quickly falling to Torchwood levels. I find that I enjoy certain snippets and cencepts of an episode, but when looked back upon it's utter shit and I have to wonder what the writers were huffing.

This... was something of a travesty, I'm afraid. The whole alluding to a daughter thing, only for this cop out that could've at least made a more memorable two-parter than the Daleks do New York episodes, is simply unforgivable.

I really hope this is not the trend being set now, but I fear the worst. The finale is going to be another Earth-in-peril-from-comeback kid-baddie-favourite-until-deus ex machina affair. I can taste it in my balls (and no, I don't get that particular idiom, but it sounds funny).

It'll be even worse if, as seems likely, the REPEAT the S1 DEM and in the process totally INVALIDATE the S2 DEM. At a stroke, ruining the two successful seasons. It's BRILLIANT.

You, sir, clearly need to apply for the BBC's drama department. I expect your resume and RTD's resignation by Monday.

So, they think they can ruin the franchise? They ain't seen nothin' yet.

FINALLY, we can have the true horrors of the Candy Man revealed to the universe. The finale involves a fight between Martha and Rose. Naked. In warm caramel.

C'mon you know that's why they're bringing Rose back, for a self-indulgent hugathon 4-part finale to defeat the latest world-conquering flying aliens with red lasers who will be defeated with a reset button. ROSE'S reset button, and we all like pushing that one don't we lads?

What I think makes the finale possibly really really bad is that Davies is leaving. He's the kinda guy who'd want to leave a 'legacy' or some shit, so he'll be throwing out the fanservice and the favourite character wank and all kinds of bullshit.

I can't wait.

It's great that he resurrected the series and all, but if he's going to then rape it at the end of his term so no one can touch it any more than they would radioactive scorched earth, then it seems a tad silly.

On the other hand, we can always have a Jenny spin-off. It'll be a hoot, and by hoot, I mean sexy time.

You've seen the calibre of writers and actors that he's involved in the show. Remember, we got Freema because Davies just liked her; we could have had the chick from Jekyll instead. I would have preferred that even if they'd kept the same scripts. He's set the show up for failure after he leaves already, with more Helen Raynor and shit.



Oh yeah, totally needs more Time Lord Babies spin off. It'd be hilarious, and have bewbs. Ratings winner!

Seems clear now that's his intention. Raynor probably got lucky in the second Sontaran episode being somewhat good, ignoring all the retarded stuff from the first episode. Still, the feeling of foreboding is strong.

And you just made me think of James Nesbitt as the Doctor. Only in his Murphy's Law, Jekyll incarnation. He solves everything... with a gun and Celtic manliness! Sonic screwdriver indeed.



Good. I miss Rugrats.

So there goes the "Time Lords get their second heart from their first regeneration" myth.


And dear gods this was a bad episode.


Ugh...

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"Being a douche on SDN is ok, as long as you're right." - Captain Chewbacca

I don't get why the modified P90s were simply blowtorches with a fan in, while we've had proper assault rifles before firing proper blanks. The last time they used this SMG, they had CGI flare effects ("The Impossible Planet") which looked a little better, but not by much.

Yeah, those P90s in Satan Pit were awful. Wave gun around, we'll add bad flashes in post that look bizarre!

Fuckin' A. They clearly never taught them how to convincingly show recoil or even aim properly. The CGI flares wouldn't be all bad if it wasn't for them firing the guns off with the rabidity of an elderly person having a seizure.

Who're the people who give this episode a five? I can't think of one thing that was both good and pulled off well in the episode. It's a pure and utter stinker through and through so how the hell does it get a 5?

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"Being a douche on SDN is ok, as long as you're right." - Captain Chewbacca

Brand loyalty.

Brand loyalty is what kept me watching that piece of shit instead of turning it off ten minutes in, like I wanted to when exposed to the craptastic dialog. It takes a special kind of retardation to look at that episode and say "DAMN FUCKING STRAIGHT THAT EPISODE WAS AWESOME! In the future I'm showing this episode to my kids right after City of Death to get them to love the Doctor!"


Ugh... Imagine this: The Doctor saves Jenny. Brings her on the TARDIS, they go off adventuring together. Unlike all his other past companions his relationship with Jenny is different. He not only loves her but starts teaching her. He finds his emotional release, a way to repair the horrific damage done to his psyche, by teaching her about Gallifrey, the TARDIS, Time and Space, the Sonic Screwdriver, etc. In short, teaching her to be a new Time Lady. Gallifrey and the Time Lords are gone due to his actions, but he can bring them back again. And then Rose comes back and the Doctor is given a choice, he can either save the woman he loves or the daughter and future of his race.



That'd be an interesting story. A compelling story. See the Doctor reborn, finally regenerating mentally as well as physically only to see him put through the wringer once more. Instead we get this bullcrap and the set up for a fourth spinoff series. (It is four, right? Not five I hope...)

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"Being a douche on SDN is ok, as long as you're right." - Captain Chewbacca

That's what makes this season suck so bad, frankly; there's good opportunities for awesome. They're just such terrible writers they give us dross instead.