Armageddon???? (Part Fifty Up)

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Re: I'm not saying Garands are bad....

Post by [R_H] » 2008-03-10 12:36pm

JCady wrote: The high capacity drum is designed for vehicle-mounted applications, not handheld use.
Ok. Just out of curiosity, do you happen to know how much the high-cap drum weighs (loaded and unloaded)?

I've been doing some thinking about what I've quoted below.
[R_H] wrote: Going back to squad (re)organisation, I'm thinking a 12 or 13 man squad like the Marines have would be more effective than an 8 or 9 man squad like the Army. Splitting it into 3 fireteams of 4, 'A' and 'B' consisting each of 2 riflemen (or 3 riflemen and 1 ARer) and 2 shotgunners/.50 ARers (one or both of which is also carrying a standalone grenade launcher like the M320 (the M203's replacement), the M32 or even the XRGL40 (would need 40x51mm grenades, but they have an 800m area target effective range compared to the 40x46mm 400m area target effective range). Each of the 8 members of 'A' and 'B' would of course be hauling along ammuntion for 'C's support weapon. Fireteam C would be in charge of a support weapon, either a light mortar, an automatic grenade launcher (along the lines of the Chinese QLZ-87B or the Czech SAG-30) or a lightened HMG (the Russian Kord and Utes 12.7mm HMGs weigh in at 41kg with the 6T7 tripod and ammo (the later massing a combined 16kg) distributed among the 4 members of Fireteam 'C', along with their personal weapons, perhaps the FN P90 (bad joke) or a standalone M26 12' shotgun (1.9kg) and the assistant gunners carrying .50 ARs (3.4kg) or even rifles.
I did some research about the .458WM cartridge, and found that a single cartridge weighs in at 54 grams, 100 rounds would weigh 5.4kg, 200 would weigh 10.8kg etc, and that's not including the weight of the magazines. A set of Medium ESAPI plates (front, back and sides) weigh 8kg (6" by 8" ESAPI) (10" by 12" 0.5" Ceramic) , and a medium vest alone weighs 4.3kg (OTV sizing). A medium sized ACH helmet weighs in at approximately 1.3kg [http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... nd/ach.htm](ACH helmet)[/url]. By eliminating all the armor and the helmet, which isn't necessary with the Baldricks, that removes 13.6kg of armour (or 14.1kg according to the numbers from the Army) from the infantryman's load, which is the equivalent of between 250 and 260 rounds of .458WM. A full USGI 30 round 5.56mm magazine weighs around 0.48kg (not sure how accurate that number is, I saw that on another forum), with about 8 to 10 magazines usually carried (off the top of my head) for a total of 4.8kg for 10 magazines, equivalent to 88 rounds of .458WM. I'm thinking about 100 rounds will be carried in magazines (how large are the magazines?) with about 200 rounds carried in (a) boxes, for a total of 300 rounds (16.2kg w/o magazines).

The mass of 100 rounds (belted?) of 12.7mm Russian is 15kg, while 110 rounds (belted?) of .50BMG weighs 14.38kg. An M2HB (with tripod) and 2200 rounds of ammunition weighs 345.6kg, and a Kord 12.7mm HMG (with tripod) and 2000 rounds of ammunition weighs 341kg. That's say, an even 350kg with a spare barrel and a basic maintenance kit. If the the M-274 Mule were reintroduced in some form or another, it could carry a payload of 455kg (if not more for a modernised/improved version), which would easily be able to handle an HMG and its ammunition. It could even transport 105kg of supplementary ammunition and food/water for the other soldiers in the squad.

For the sake of comparison, an M-224 60mm mortar weighs 21kg (and has a range of 3500m). Each M720/M888 HE bomblet weighs 1.68kg, and a case of 12 weighs 22.5kg. If the maximum weight of the mortar plus ammunition is within the 350kg like for the HMG, the mortar, along with 14 cases of bomblets (168 bomblets - no idea if that many could fit on the Mule) only weighs 336kg.
Last edited by [R_H] on 2008-03-10 04:18pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by GrandMasterTerwynn » 2008-03-10 12:47pm

Gerald Tarrant wrote:Is Luga lying?
Succubi wrote: “Is that how you come to Earth.”

“Yes. We contact a Nephilim and use our mind-mask to establish a message link. Then our leaders add more power and form a gate we can step through.”
I think you'd be hard pressed to find a human who's not wearing a tinfoil-beanie, and thus immune from unwanted hellish communication, yet somehow a portal got opened up in a random American Mall.
I'd be astonished if there weren't a non-trivial fraction of the American public who'd refuse to wear tinfoil hats based on the say-so of "mainstream" science and public leaders. Remember that the American public is actually somewhat suspicious of science (homeopathy and other "alternative" medicines are a multi-billion dollar industry, and people routinely buy into B.S. like vaccines cause autism, the government conceals evidence of UFOs/wishes to dominate us all at the behest of the Illuminati, and the Earth is less than 10,000 years old.) I tend to think that the prevasiveness of people wearing tinfoil hats in the story is possibly a bit optimistic.

And, not to mention, as the Nephilim are especially susceptible to demonic interference, and presumably Hell would very much like to nurture and preserve such an obviously valuable intelligence asset, it might be logical to suspect that the Nephilim will be among the least-likely to adopt wearing tinfoil. Not to mention there is the small problem that the tinfoil hat is poorly grounded, so electromagnetic radiation coming up from under the hat will tend to be conveniently focused inside the brain, as the hat behaves as a parabolic mirror from underneath, so even if a given Nephilim wore a tinfoil hat, their sensitivity is such that they'll may well pick up on the demonic signal anyway, as attenuated as it might otherwise be.

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Post by [R_H] » 2008-03-10 01:00pm

Sea Skimmer wrote: I don’t see why you couldn’t do that, but developing a new machine gun is going to take time. I’d prefer to make the ASP-30 the standard light vehicle weapon, alongside water cooled .50cals.

The thing is about as big and heavy as an M2 Browning, but it fires the same ammo as the M230 cannon on an Apache. With an 800m/s MV the HEDP shell has about 75,000 joules of energy, but AP rounds also exist with a bit lower velocity but more mass, increasing energy to some 85,000 joules. I’m pretty sure a 30mm hole straight through a Baldrick will put it down with one hit. And if the Bladrick isn’t at point blank range, you can loft the HEDP rounds to about 4,000 meters and still have fairly good accuracy.
Is the ASP-30 the M230LF (which is ready for production)?

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Post by Stuart » 2008-03-10 01:55pm

Military Attache’s Offices, Royal Thai Embassy, Washington DC

Major General Asanee settled back in her seat to watch the early morning news. She knew what the leading item was likely to be but the U.S. news networks always amused her. She flipped the television mounted on the wall to Fox and waited for the headlines. She wasn’t disappointed.

The death toll in the baldrick attack on the Lakeview Mall in Chicago continues to rise. At least ten humans are reported to have been killed when a lone baldrick materialized in the shopping area of the mall and started to indiscriminately kill shoppers. Hero of the hour was 56 year old security guard Philip Phelan who saved the lives of a group of teenage girls when, armed only with a baton, he defended them from the baldrick. Now, from the scene of the attack….

The General pursed her lips for a second and asked herself the same question that was puzzling people in government offices across America. Why had this happened now? Was it linked to the crushing defeat of the baldrick army in Iraq? If so it appeared to be opening an entirely new front in the war. Almost absent-mindedly she flipped channels to CBS.

An incident in a Chicago mall turned violent yesterday when two gunmen opened fire with assault rifles on a baldrick that was visiting the shopping plaza. The gunmen, both members of the NRA, had brought their guns into the mall in flagrant violation of the operation’s “no guns” policy and started shooting without warning. More than ten people were killed in the attack.

The General sighed quietly to herself, the American media never changed she thought ruefully. Perhaps it was better that nobody believed a word they said. Still, that comment about the NRA started a chain of thought in her mind, one that rotated around the phrase “a well-organized militia”. Her country already had one, the Tahan Phran and it was a key part of their defense against terrorism. She nodded quietly to herself and picked up the telephone, dialing the Office of the Secretary of Defense. “Hello, this is Major-General Asanee here. I would like to speak with Secretary Warner, this morning if possible.”

Outside the White House, Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington DC

The television cameras had been waiting outside the White House since early morning, hoping to catch one of the Cabinet members in a limousine just after the imposition of gasoline rationing on the rest of America. So far, they had been sorely disappointed since the only footage they had got was one sequence of Condoleezza Rice on a bicycle and John Warner jogging into the building. The cameraman was about to give it up as a bad job when he felt a tap on his shoulder. A small, nondescript van was pulling into the White House driveway and, significantly, it passed through security with hardly a moment’s delay. It wasn’t much but it was better than nothing.

White House Conference Room, White House, Washington DC

“You all got the warning about the television cameras then?” President Bush glanced around the assembled members of the Cabinet, reassured by the nods he received. “Right let us continue. Just what happened in that mall? And why did it happen?”

Secretary Michael Chertoff looked down at the brief he had been given. “The eye witness accounts are pretty confused as one might expect. As far as we can make out, the baldrick just appeared within the mall and started killing people, more or less at random. It carried on doing so until it was shot dead. And that’s pretty much all we do know.” The Homeland Defense Secretary looked up at the meeting. “It’s critical we don’t confuse what we think with what we know here. We can make all sorts of guesses but the amount of hard information we have is very limited. We can really screw ourselves up if we start thinking our guesses are facts.”

There were a series of nods around the table. In some ways, it had been an unnecessary comment, not confusing facts with deductions from those facts was a caution that everybody knew. In another way, the warning was timely and vital for, although everybody knew the principle, they forgot it with dreadful regularity. People treating their opinions as facts was called the Rumsfeld Syndrome in this room.

“Another fact for the pile.” Secretary Warner spoke quietly as was his usual practice. “That baldrick took a lot of killing. It got hit 15 times with pistol fire, OK six of those were .32s but the rest were .45s. Also eleven rifle-caliber hits. Only the last three really hurt it.”

“Not quite so John.” Secretary Michael O. Leavitt consulted his brief. “My people tell me that the .30-06 hits would have killed the baldrick eventually but the .416s really hurried things along. This fits what we’re getting back from Iraq I believe?”

“It does Mike. Baldricks appear to die from bleeding out, they can take quite devastating hits but if they don’t cause massive blood loss, they can keep going for some time. Some of our snipers report that baldricks have kept going after taking .50 caliber bullets to the head. On the other hand, fragmentation damage rips them up and causes extensive bleeding that finishes them quickly.”

“Very interesting.” Bush was a little annoyed, this was all very well but it didn’t answer any of the key questions he needed to deal with. “But why did this happen, how likely is this attack to be repeated and what can we do to stop them? If this thing just appeared in the middle of a mall, it can appear anywhere – can’t it?”

In one corner, General Schatten coughed gently. “If I may be permitted Sir, we have brought along about the only expert we have on how and why baldricks think the way they do. If I may be permitted to bring her in?”

Bush nodded. General Schatten left for a moment, then returned with a companion whose appearance stunned the room into silence. It was about six feet tall and was wearing a cape-like red robe which did not hide the fact that it was naked. Its skin was the sort of shiny black normally associated with insects except around the head where is faded to a corpse-like white. Its hair was pinkish-blonde with two red-tipped horns emerging from its lank folds. Its the mouth large and vivid red, the eyes sunk deep in shadow, their yellow gaze darting around from one person to the next. On closer inspection, it was female.

“That’s a baldrick, are you insane bringing that thing in here?” Secretary Warner’s voice almost cracked with the shock.

“Ladies, gentlemen, this is Lugasharmanaska, a succubus who has defected to us. She has provided us with a significant amount of intelligence over the last few days. Secretary Chertoff, you stressed the need for facts, not opinions. Luga is the only person who can give us facts.”

“Take a seat my dear.” For want of any more appropriate attitude, President Bush dropped into his genial Texan host mode. Lugasharmanaska took a vacant seat, appreciating how those nearest to her shifted away. “You heard what happened yesterday afternoon in Chicago?”

“No.” Her yellow slitted eyes darted around again, measuring up the people in the room with her.

“Show the film please. Lugasharmanaska this is film taken through our video surveillance system at the mall. It shows a baldr…. a demon …. Attacking the crowd.”

Luga watched the film without any real interest. “So?”

“So why this attack, why now?”

“Why not.” Lugasharmanaska shrugged, a curiously human gesture. “This is nothing new. Just another berserker attacking. Odd your people fought back though, usually they do not.”

“Wait a minute.” Secretary Rice jumped on the last phrase. “Usually, this has happened before.”
Lugasharmanaska was almost impatient. “Of course it has. How many times have you had mass killings in your schools or parks? How many times has an isolated community been mysteriously wiped out? Always it was either us or Yahweh. Sometimes our berserkers would do it themselves, other times they would possess another human to do it.” She stirred slightly in excitement. “That was always very good because we would let the person see what they had done and know they would be punished for it. Their despair was joy to us.”

“Yahweh did things like this?”

“Of course.” Impatience had become scorn. “Most were his, to keep you frightened and depending on him. Ours were just for sport.”

Bush glanced around the assembled cabinet, gathering in the expressions of horror and disgust on their faces. What must it be like working daily with a monster like this, listening to these horrors?. “Always the attacks were on schools and malls?” The question was soft, he was controlling his voice very carefully.

“Of course. That is where fear and terror would be greatest.” Lugasharmanaska paused for a second. “You were very wise keeping your guns out of such places, it hid them from us.”

“But you can go anywhere, appear anywhere.”

“No.” Impatience returned again. “We need nephilim to home in on. In malls and such there are large concentrations of people so the homing signal is strongest there.”

“So you can only appear where there are concentrations of people.”

“That is what I said is it not?”

“So the timing of this attack has nothing to do with the fighting in Iraq?”

“What fighting?”

Bush glanced at General Schatten who shook his head. They’d told Lugasharmanaska nothing of the battles in the Iraqi desert. “Your army invaded us. We defeated it, totally. Wiped it out at little cost to ourselves. What isn’t dead is running. And don’t think this will end there. We fight to win.”

“Defeated? Which Army?” Lugasharmanaska was stunned, she knew humans were unexpectedly powerful but to defeat an entire Army? Lead by who? She gathered herself, noting the renewed confidence in the humans. Her shock had cost her ground. “No, this attack has nothing to do with that. The Duke who launched it may not even know the war has started yet. Hell is a big place and communications are very slow. By messenger mostly. Many parts may not have got the word yet.”

The interrogation went on, pushing Lugasharmanaska for added details of the berserker raids. In the background, one of James Randi’s JREF observers was filming the whole process.

DIMO(N) Conference Room, The Pentagon, Arlington, VA

“Notice something odd about this film Robert?”

“About a demon in the Conference room? Nothing at all odd. I’d guess in some previous administrations there were several. I’ve always wondered about Robert McNamara myself, he’s a good candidate for a fiend from hell.”

“Not bright enough. No, look at how this meeting starts. See how everybody is disgusted by Lugasharmanaska, repulsed by her. Combination of hatred, loathing, abomination, abhorrence, you name it, every negative emotion imaginable. Now look at these scenes at the end of the meeting. What do you see?”

“Doesn’t look very different to me. The President is being charming but if looks could kill, Condi’s laser gaze would have fried poor Lugasharmanaska on the spot.”

“Right, and what is it we’ve noticed about people meeting Lugasharmanaska?”

“Everybody accepts her and gets sympathetic, warm and fuzzy about her. Oh, I see what you mean. The Cabinet didn’t.”

“And they all had their caps on so it isn’t mind control. Whatever it is that she does, it didn’t work there.”

“Must be environmental, must be. How does that conference room differ from ours?”

“It’s a lot bigger of course. And more expensively equipped. That’s all.”

“And its air is screened.” General Schatten cut in from one corner

“General?”

“The air is screened, its continually drawn out, filtered and recycled. There’s quite an airflow but is through vents in the floor so people don’t notice it. You can throw a tear gas bomb in there and the air will be scrubbed clean before it hurts anybody.”

“The air gets scrubbed clean. All the time. James – pheromones sound likely to you?”

“Ummm.”

“Scents used by humans to modify behavior around them. For example, women who are ovulating use them to be particularly attractive to men, pheromones from pregnant women make people around them feel warm and fuzzy, its part of our non-verbal communication system.”

“I do not like thee Doctor Fell
Why this is I cannot tell
But I know this and know full well
I do not like thee Doctor Fell.”

“Exactly James, a lot of our subconscious likes and dislikes are determined by pheromones. We’re only just beginning to get into what they do and the field’s opening out. It may well be that our sense of smell is vastly more important than we ever gave it credit for. The conference room is big, that means Lugasharmanaska’s pheromones didn’t have time to build up the necessary concentration before they were swept out and scrubbed out.”

“Does that mean we have to wear a gas mask before we speak with her?”

“Might not do any good, there’s some evidence that pheromones work by skin absorption as well. The upside is that pheromone effects are insidious but if people are aware of them, they can filter them out, recognize and discount them if you like. Another good thing about this…”

“What’s that Robert?”

“I doubt if Lugasharmanaska understands what it is that makes people agreeable around her. I bet she just takes it for granted that they will be. That means she must be a very confused succubus right now.”

“Did you see her face when the President told her about our victory in Iraq? She was shaken to her very roots. She’s shaken up in more ways than one.”

Office of the Secretary of Defense, The Pentagon, Washington DC

John Warner sighed and rubbed his eyes. The logic laid out by the charming but ice-cold Thai General was undeniable, especially with what they’d learned from that foul monster General Schatten had brought into the White House. Baldricks could teleport into any large group of people. So there had to be guards everywhere. That meant a militia, well, the Constitution provided for that, encouraged it even. And there were enough guns floating around in America to arm it. His pen sketched doodles on a pad. Of course the term militia was out, too many negative connotations these days. His eye rested on picture of the American Civil War and the letters USV. United States Volunteers. That wasn’t right though, these people would be defending their homes. Local Defense Volunteers. That had a good ring to it and glossed over the fact that they were going to be drafted.

Every man and woman between the ages of 18 and 50 who wasn’t already part of the armed forces, that was what the new draft would bring in. To be armed and sent as patrols to sports stadiums, schools, malls, anywhere people would be gathering. Average strength on any given day, 25 million. One more burden for a nation that was already working long hours with little rest. Yet, the benefits were already showing, new M270A2 rocket launchers, M2 Bradleys, M1 tanks were starting to flow from the production line. Aircraft were the problem, production would take a long time to ramp up and bring retired old aircraft back from the graveyard could only achieve so much.

His phone beeped. “Mister Secretary. A Ms O’Leary to see you. She’s your eleven o’Clock.”

Warmer sighed again. What did she want? “Miss O’Leary, How can I help you?”

“Secretary Warner, I understand you’ll be needing a lot of guns, needing them quickly and they have to be powerful enough to take down a baldrick with a minimum number of shots.”

“That is so.” More than you can possibly realize he thought.

“I own a small custom gun producing company. We make a derivative of the M1 Garand in.458 Winchester. Our production isn’t great but we can expand a bit and we know other companies that can do the same. There are quite a few others, including Springfield who make the M1A, a semi-automatic version of the M14, who can retool to make .458 Winchester versions of that weapon. Between us we can make a lot of these rifles. They’re accurate at longer range than the .50 M16s you’re introducing and they don’t use the same industry resources. We can use furniture makers for the wooden stocks etc, and the parts are milled, not stamped. There’s lots of small engineering companies that are hurting right now, they aren’t into the high-tech stuff our modern weaponry requires. But for something at World War Two levels, they’re perfect. And they want in on the war effort.”

And in on the profits Warner thought. But she was right, and this would help arm the Local Defense Volunteers. And it did make use of small industrial capacity. “An excellent idea Miss O’Leary. Let’s talk money on this.”
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Post by Academia Nut » 2008-03-10 02:09pm

Another good chapter Stuart, although we are all eagerly awaiting to see what's going to happen to Abigor. Will he be wounded in battle and captured or decide to charge the tanks of the armies array against him and be cut down.

Or will he do the unthinkable for a demon and surrender? From what we've seen, Abigor is probably one of the most forward thinking demon lords out there in that he doesn't eat the messenger bearing bad news.

Although from the sounds of things, some of the barons of hell do in fact know what has been going on if they've been sending over berserkers and have quietly not told anyone higher up. Although now we do know that all those crazies "On a mission from God" or claiming to be the Angel of Death were probably telling the truth.
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Post by DarthShady » 2008-03-10 02:40pm

Although from the sounds of things, some of the barons of hell do in fact know what has been going on if they've been sending over berserkers and have quietly not told anyone higher up. Although now we do know that all those crazies "On a mission from God" or claiming to be the Angel of Death were probably telling the truth.
Perhaps some of the barons see this as an opportunity to take out Satan and take hell for them selves.Or they are just trying to impress him by killing some humans.

Also i was wondering, since Abigor's army is surrounded and soon to be crushed how will Satan know about it? I mean if communications are slow he might wait for quite some time before sending someone to check on Abigor's progress.

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Post by [R_H] » 2008-03-10 02:42pm

Stuart wrote:
“I own a small custom gun producing company. We make a derivative of the M1 Garand in.458 Winchester. Our production isn’t great but we can expand a bit and we know other companies that can do the same. There are quite a few others, including Springfield who make the M1A, a semi-automatic version of the M14, who can retool to make .458 Winchester versions of that weapon. Between us we can make a lot of these rifles. They’re accurate at longer range than the .50 M16s you’re introducing and they don’t use the same industry resources. We can use furniture makers for the wooden stocks etc, and the parts are milled, not stamped. There’s lots of small engineering companies that are hurting right now, they aren’t into the high-tech stuff our modern weaponry requires. But for something at World War Two levels, they’re perfect. And they want in on the war effort.”


Quick question - will there be an MMG chambered in .458WM? Couldn't a (modernised) M1919A4 be used in the MMG role and the M1941 Johnson machine gun as an LMG? Replacing the M240s and M249s would be easier for the light infantry than lugging around HMGs.

Edit: The M1919A4, with its tripod, is 20.45kg and is commercially available as kits in either 7.62NATO or .30-06 (semi-auto only though).
Last edited by [R_H] on 2008-03-10 03:40pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by Firethorn » 2008-03-10 02:50pm

Man, you had CBS go way overboard on that one.

Not even they are willing to twist facts that much unless the purge had them go over the deep end.

Next chapter I almost expect to see something along the lines of:
CBS newspeople being lynched.
CBS under federal investigation for Baldrick espionage
CBS issuing full apologies while firing every newsperson in the chain involved with that story.

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Post by CaptainChewbacca » 2008-03-10 02:50pm

I found the bit about the conference room's ventillation system interesting. Is that really the case for the Cabinet room? If so, its quite an awesome security precaution.

Also, does tinfoil prevent demonic/angellic posession? Seems like it explains alot of the 'sudden jihad' attacks or gun-toting bible nuts we've seen.

Edit: You know what the Volunteers will need? Dogs. To sniff out the Baldricks.
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Post by pdf27 » 2008-03-10 03:34pm

Stuart wrote:ocal Defense Volunteers. That had a good ring to it and glossed over the fact that they were going to be drafted.
I wonder how long that will last when they figure out it actually stands for Look, Duck and Vanish ;)

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Post by Stuart » 2008-03-10 03:48pm

Firethorn wrote:Man, you had CBS go way overboard on that one. Not even they are willing to twist facts that much unless the purge had them go over the deep end.
Twist facts? Every fact in the CBS version of the story was correct (if we take the definition of an assault rifle as any shoulder-fired weapon which is in keeping with practice. I've even seen a black powder musket described as an "assault rifle", a .50 caliber one to boot). The story was based on one that actually started "A home invasion turned violent when a home owner used a hand gun to kill one intruder" and went on to refer to the other two home invaders as the victims.

The bit about the ventilation system is true for quite a few government offices. Air is drawn out at floor level, cycled through a filtration and scrubbing system and returned via ceiling vents. Normally, it takes a couple of minutes to exchange the air in the conference room but if somebody hits the emergency button it can sweep the room out in less than 15 seconds. It really is possible to throw a gas grenade in and the gas doesn't spread - it simply gets sucked out through the floor vents. Saves a lot of embarrassment if the Senate Cafeteria was serving burritos.
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Post by Agent Fisher » 2008-03-10 03:55pm

I figured with the militia, you would just have all the states expand their preexisting State Defense Forces. I know California here has one. I have a couple friends who are in the SDF.

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Post by MKSheppard » 2008-03-10 04:37pm

His eye rested on picture of the American Civil War and the letters USV. United States Volunteers. That wasn’t right though, these people would be defending their homes. Local Defense Volunteers. That had a good ring to it and glossed over the fact that they were going to be drafted.
Nah, keep the USV tag. Tradition is important. Hell, you can sell it to the south and north; to revive some storied Union units like the 1st Minnesota Volunteer Infantry, and several storied CSA units. Plus, the word "[Insert State Name] Volunteer" etc implies that you will be defending your homes.
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Post by CaptainChewbacca » 2008-03-10 05:03pm

I'm gonna have to vote for 'US Volunteer' instead of the 'LD Volunteer'. Honestly, it sounds cooler. You can have some analyst somewhere make the decision and say 'it tested higher'.

BTW, isn't the SOTU coming up soon in Armageddon-verse? That would be a good time to make a national call for volunteers.
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Post by [R_H] » 2008-03-10 05:06pm

Stuart wrote: "It does Mike. Baldricks appear to die from bleeding out, they can take quite devastating hits but if they don’t cause massive blood loss, they can keep going for some time. Some of our snipers report that baldricks have kept going after taking .50 caliber bullets to the head. On the other hand, fragmentation damage rips them up and causes extensive bleeding that finishes them quickly.”
Are the kill radiuses for the M61/67 and the M383/384 HE and M430HEDP around ~5m, or are they significantly smaller?

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Post by Setzer » 2008-03-10 05:45pm

I can't imagine Satan learning of this defeat any time soon. Natural lags in communication will be one factor, plus, who wants to tell him that kind of news?
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Post by KlavoHunter » 2008-03-10 06:38pm

MKSheppard wrote:
His eye rested on picture of the American Civil War and the letters USV. United States Volunteers. That wasn’t right though, these people would be defending their homes. Local Defense Volunteers. That had a good ring to it and glossed over the fact that they were going to be drafted.
Nah, keep the USV tag. Tradition is important. Hell, you can sell it to the south and north; to revive some storied Union units like the 1st Minnesota Volunteer Infantry, and several storied CSA units. Plus, the word "[Insert State Name] Volunteer" etc implies that you will be defending your homes.
Yes, I agree - you can revive all those storied Civil War-era units, that were location-based. It's not like these USV/LDVs are going to be deployed outside of America - they're going to be tied down to their local area. This boosts morale and general espirit de corps.
"The 4th Earl of Hereford led the fight on the bridge, but he and his men were caught in the arrow fire. Then one of de Harclay's pikemen, concealed beneath the bridge, thrust upwards between the planks and skewered the Earl of Hereford through the anus, twisting the head of the iron pike into his intestines. His dying screams turned the advance into a panic."'

SDNW4: The Sultanate of Klavostan

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Post by Sea Skimmer » 2008-03-10 07:53pm

I’d throw my support behind making it USV too, I mean heck, then we could have tens of thousands of uniformed reenactors out on the streets the very next day.. and all those .54cal muzzle loaders might be pretty effective Baldrick stoppers too.
[R_H] wrote: Is the ASP-30 the M230LF (which is ready for production)?
Not the same thing. ASP stands for Automatic Self Powered, meaning that unlike any version of the M230 chaingun you don’t need a lot of electrical power to make it work. If you look around that same site, they do have a page for it.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product3643.html
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Post by Hawkwings » 2008-03-10 07:56pm

"Local Defense Volunteer" makes me think that someone was trying to come up with some neutral politically-correct term (which they may well have done). It also brings up images of either redshirts or hicks toting shotguns and beer.

"United States Volunteer" on the other hand, gets the Battle Hymn of the Republic going in my head. All that's needed after that is a long blue jacket with accompanying tinfoil-weaved cap.
Vendetta wrote:Richard Gatling was a pioneer in US national healthcare. On discovering that most soldiers during the American Civil War were dying of disease rather than gunshots, he turned his mind to, rather than providing better sanitary conditions and medical care for troops, creating a machine to make sure they got shot faster.

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Post by Stuart » 2008-03-10 08:04pm

Actually, Local Defense Volunteers was the original name for the British Home Guard in 1940 but was abandoned when it was (as pdf pointed out) misconstrued as Look, Duck and Vanish. After the dubious nature of the acronym is pointed out, we will be going to United States Volunteers and reviving all the old Civil War regiments.
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Post by The Big I » 2008-03-10 08:17pm

Hey Stuart great story I've learn't a lot about guns in your last two chapters ahhh trusty wikipedia how I love you.

Just a question I'm not sure if it has been brought up in the discussion but with the Baldricks aversion to bronze would the gov not issue their soldiers with bronze tip bullets to take down Baldricks faster???

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Post by R011 » 2008-03-10 08:24pm

Stuart wrote:
Twist facts? Every fact in the CBS version of the story was correct (if we take the definition of an assault rifle as any shoulder-fired weapon which is in keeping with practice. I've even seen a black powder musket described as an "assault rifle", a .50 caliber one to boot). The story was based on one that actually started "A home invasion turned violent when a home owner used a hand gun to kill one intruder" and went on to refer to the other two home invaders as the victims.
Something ate my previous resonse to this with a better link. I hate it when that happens!

I agree with Firethorn. The CBS reference was way over the top. See theri coverage the day of 9/11 or on mass murder incidents like the December one in Colorado where a civilian shot the killer. link

That doesn't mean they're free of bias or not partisan, but what you wrote is the kind of thing that would be an amusing joke in the Bar, but not to be taken seriously.
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Post by KlavoHunter » 2008-03-10 08:43pm

The Big I wrote:Hey Stuart great story I've learn't a lot about guns in your last two chapters ahhh trusty wikipedia how I love you.

Just a question I'm not sure if it has been brought up in the discussion but with the Baldricks aversion to bronze would the gov not issue their soldiers with bronze tip bullets to take down Baldricks faster???
Not Bronze - Iron is what was described as Baldrick-bane in both legend and now in reality, where they go "Oh shit, iron chariots!".


This is not because of any mythological property of iron - Baldricks are armed with bronze swords and such. A sword made of iron is superior in hardness and sharpness to any bronze weapon (the precise differences escape me, as I am no metallurgist), and thus trumps Baldrick swords and armor.

Furthermore, "iron chariots" in the historical sense, before we get to modern-day tanks, would be effectively grounded against Baldrick lightning, so they could give a charioteer a zap, but it would be, in general, ineffective.

Similarly, armored vehicles act as a faraday cage, and thus leave their contents and passengers immune to electrical attack - the only meaningful ranged attack we've yet seen from the Baldricks.
"The 4th Earl of Hereford led the fight on the bridge, but he and his men were caught in the arrow fire. Then one of de Harclay's pikemen, concealed beneath the bridge, thrust upwards between the planks and skewered the Earl of Hereford through the anus, twisting the head of the iron pike into his intestines. His dying screams turned the advance into a panic."'

SDNW4: The Sultanate of Klavostan

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Post by MKSheppard » 2008-03-10 08:45pm

Stuart wrote:After the dubious nature of the acronym is pointed out, we will be going to United States Volunteers and reviving all the old Civil War regiments.
Yay! Make sure the 1st Minnesota gets to be first too!
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Post by KlavoHunter » 2008-03-10 09:06pm

Stuart wrote:Actually, Local Defense Volunteers was the original name for the British Home Guard in 1940 but was abandoned when it was (as pdf pointed out) misconstrued as Look, Duck and Vanish. After the dubious nature of the acronym is pointed out, we will be going to United States Volunteers and reviving all the old Civil War regiments.
Forward the Iron Brigade!


Edit: The name for Wisconsin volunteers is double sweet, now - not only was the Iron Brigade one of the best units of the Civil War, but Baldricks have quite the pathological fear of iron... :twisted:
"The 4th Earl of Hereford led the fight on the bridge, but he and his men were caught in the arrow fire. Then one of de Harclay's pikemen, concealed beneath the bridge, thrust upwards between the planks and skewered the Earl of Hereford through the anus, twisting the head of the iron pike into his intestines. His dying screams turned the advance into a panic."'

SDNW4: The Sultanate of Klavostan

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