40K misc numbers and analysis thread

[Connor MacLeod]

null fields are also mentioned ni other novels, (the inquisition war for one). Similar devices show up in "Kill team", the "Tactica Imperialis" and a few others that unfortunately escape my mind ATM. That Imperium vessels use some form of stealth/cloaking shield is not surprising, gven how often the "running silent" tactic is supposed to work (you'd have to have some sort of shielding to really pull the "running silent" trick off.)

As for the calcs, I saw that and I wasn't intending to comment it until much later, but vaping a 30 meter crater in rock needs only 50 kilotons of energy. Those particular scenes aren't quite so interesting for the actual energy input used so much as for the duration that enegy is delivered (a billionth of a second.) It's the timeframe (and the resulting wattage, which is somewhere in the e23 watt range) that is notable.

The "weather patterns" bit is referring more directly to what happens on planets where preliminary orbital bombardments of a certain yield (nculear level+) are used - its basically a nod to thermodynamics and its impact on the enviroment.

[Balrog]

Just a question, have you thought about updating the Grand 40K Quantification Thread with these numbers? It would make it much easier to access then scrolling through pages.

[Connor MacLeod]

I would except:

a.) its very very far down in there, and I dont know if I can actually dig it up.

b.) A search function should be able to uncover it. If I've covered a topic, it shoudl be simpel to search for.

For example, if you wanted to looke up meltagun calcs you could do a search in OSF under "meltagun" using my name to narrow it down, searching for posts.

I am toying with the idea of setting this up under some sticky perhaps with links to the relevant analytical threads, but that's really about it. I've already covered alot of data (and I've still got tons more to cover) and cross indexing this would be a virttual nightmare on its own.

Edit: If someone else wants to cross-reference it for me, they can be my guest. Maybe I might in the future at some point once time and projects permit, but I dont have any immediate plans to do so. (Hell, I have to go back through a bunch of threads and cross-refrence them by page number in the given threads.)

[Connor MacLeod]

Next update is a WD article, should be familiar as others have mentioned it before. I dont know when I'll update next, maybe after the holidays. Anyhow...

White Dwarf 287

Page 66

They reported a four-planet system with only the second world residing in the habitable zone and confirmed that Seneschal was an incredibly ancient star.

There are four planets (plus an Asteorid belt) in the Seneschal system. The second planet is roughly in the "habitable zone" which placese it roughly 1 AU out (its between 1.2-1.5 AU in the magaizne.)


Page 66

Gakal is the outermost planet of the Lorderne system.

....

Within a few hours a fleet of system ships had been despatched from Issakkan, the third planet of the Louderne system and the system capital. There were fears that even fifteen system ships and defence monitors would be unable to prevail over a single Necron Vessel but by the time they arrived the Necrons were gone. In the time it had taken the Imperium to react all human life on and around Gakal had been brutally exterminated.

It took "a few hours" for fifteen system defence vessels to reach the outer edges of the system from the haibtable zone.

We can also guess that it took "a f ew hours" for the Necrons to supposedly render an extinction event on the planet, a feat that would require hundreds of GT/sec minimum.


Page 68
"Fifty miles a day, we march across the sands."

- Drinking song of the 8th Cadian Regiment.[/quote]

- Assuming a straight 8-12 hour march time, they can move at roughly 2-3 m/s. That seems rather impressive in a desert situation, but I have no clues how this might stack up to modern soldiers.

Page 68

The other [ship] was Stormchild a Cobra class destroyer, assigned to act as an escort.

...

Perhaps more pertinently the Stormchild carried two special torpedoes with thermal warheads capable of cutting through the
crust of a world. The Torpedoe's warheads were cyclonic charges which could destabilise the core. In the entire sector there were no others like them. The Adeptus Mechanicus had hoarded them for thousands of years, maintained them with diligent and pious worship so that they would be ready to destrroy a world. These two torpedoes were planet killers and were more valuable than every man in the expedition.

Stormchild is outfitted for extrimnatus. The torpedoes it fires are "dual warheads" - one a thermal warhead to "cut through the crust of a world" to an unknown dimension, but at least 30-40 km deep, possibly more. It probably is more, given its stated to "Destabilize the Core" and "Destroy the world." Given that its meant to wipe out the underground tomb world, it probably does a nasty job of fucking up the surface of the planet (massive shockwave or melting/vaporization.) Not neccesarily mass-scattering, though. But they are very rare examples of warhead, probably technobabble, even for a cyclonic.

To "melt through the crust" assuming a 20 meter diameter (to get through the crust) would require some 60,000 TJ minimum (about 15 megatons.) Vaporization would require at least 6-7x that figure. Assuming a much bigger hole results in larger calcs. Assuming it blasts ou ta 30 km diameter crater, it would require something on the order of tens of gigatons to accomplish. And that's not even its primary warhead. Penetrating the mantle or more could be much more intensive.

Page 69

Day 36. ORBIT - SENESCHAL IV.

I had to order both ships to power down.We caught a glimpse of several ships leaving the orbit of Seneschal II on long range surveyors. I could not be sure as our scans slid off them but they were sunward of us and that gave me a silhouette to work with, but they looked like Necrons. Worse, one of them was huge, larger than a battleship, of the type I have heard called a Tombship.

Altogether I have counted nine ships but the real number could be more. Our only hope was to play dead, to be debris amongst the asteroids and hope they would not find us.[

We waited for ten hours, surveyor-blind, breathing in ever more stale air, not daring to speak for fear of detection.

[snip more.. feeling of "being watched" - probably a reference to the C'tan detecting them.)

...

Afterward I discovered that Captain Vanferle aboard the Stormchild had considered loading the special torpedoes in an effort to destroy the fleet.

...

We must act quickly now before the fleet returns. I think I understand what is happening and that I can stop it but I must be sure because if the enemy knows we are here then another opportunity might be a long time coming.

1.) Surveyor ranges are multi-AU even against Necron ships, and purely for passive sensors.

2.) Tomb ships are larger than Imperial battleships.

3.) If we assume the "minimum" complement here is typical for a Tomb World, this implies there are at least many thousands, if not tens of thousands, of Necron Ships in existence. The vast majority are escorts or cruiser scale, but there could be hundreds if not thousands of Tomb Ships as well. (assuming "hundreds" of Tomb Worlds as mentioned in the Codex- there could be thousands or more.)

4.) It apparently took ten hours for the Necrons to departt the system (or slightly less, they might ahve waited longer)

5.) The Cobra destroyer commander wanted to use the torpedoes to destroy the Necron fleet. This implies that not only can Cyclonics be effective against starships, ,but that they might possibly be brute force, area effect weapons as well. It is also worth noting he intended to use them from multi-AU distances (the Necrons were moving outwards in the opposite direction from the Imperials, and were at the second planet. The Imperials were at the fourth planet.)

Page 69

Leaving Stormchild running on minimal power in the asteroid belt, the St Aspira moved in-system to Seneschal II as fast as its engines could manage. All through the approach its powerful surveyors explored the planet's surface.

...

The entire surface of the planet had been stripped of natural structures, no seas, rivers, mountains or forests were evideent. Instead there were tombs the size of continents, inlaid inscriptions with sigils the size of Titans and raised necropolis' that would dwarf any Imperial Hive.

...

Within a few minutes of Flintlock's party entering the crytp, vox contact with the search party was lost and only an occasional terse psychic message from Flintlock's sanctioned psyker to St Aspira's asteropath informed them of what happened.[

1.) The "storm child" is in the asteroid belt, which may give us a rough indicator of how far out if we assume the system is similar to ours.

2.) The Necrons (possibly) have the transport capacity (or firepower) to remove "all natural resources" from a planet in an unkonwn period of time with unknown weapons. This rqeuires considerable energies.

3.) Necron tombs are "the size of continents", and tombs are bigger. The sigils alone were "the size of titans"

4.) the ability to build continent sized or Hive Sized structures implies similar levels of construction capability (and materials strength) to the Imperium. We of course know they are much better, so this is conservative.

Page 69

The chambers are huge, a Titan could walk here, ,each wall containing thousands of recesses, in each there is a Necron Warrior, they show no signs of stirring.[

Each chamber is as tall as a Titan, and the walls can hold "thousands" of Necrons. Given the rough dimensions of a "continent sizeD" tomb, we can safely infer there are bound to be hundreds if not thousands of chambers per tomb, eacn holding thousands of Necrons (4,000 min.) This menas there are many hundreds of thousands if not millions per tomb.

Page 69

These would then be relayed to Inquisitor Flintlock woul would in turn send them to his Acolyte aboard the Stormchild. Then the tomb world would be destroyed.

Again we see the Stormchild fires its torpedoes from multi-AU ranges.

[Connor MacLeod]

Last 40K update for the year. I should note that this is derived from the 3rd edition core rules. Its prboably sloppier than some of my other updates (which is saying something) because I either had to squint to find them or guess when I typed them up (or maybe I was intoxicated.) and I'm too lazy to go back and correct typos.

I'm also thinking I might redo the White Dwarf articles (if I gain any) into separate entries in the future (I might even go back and edit the one above...) I want to think about just how BIG this gets... I might breka the Misc analysis thread up into several separate threads. Thoughts/suggestions might help.

In any case... hbere we go:

Leman Russ Battle tank:

Contrary to previous desgins, the Type XV Leman Russ uses only a single crystal battery generation unit. This has been designed with reference to newly re-discovered Standard Template Construction on Gravis. This has enabled us to reconstruct the power generation units of our battle tanks in accordance with the more combat-effective designs that were in use during the Storming of Vrech. Improvements in the thuamic-resonance of the crystal orientation, and a development in the growth patterns of Diquartzoid matter, allows much more efficient energy storage and expulsion. In addition, the standard phototatiic collectors have been replaced by much more senstiive panels able to accumulate and store energy down to fifty picocandels/second at standard Solar luminosity. The crystal battery unit provides only ancillary energy requirements, the bulk of the unit's operational powerload is still supplied by a fifty square kilo-cubits Adaptable Thermic Combustor engine (Stricter measures concerining the use of nondried vegetative substances and foodstuffs as fuel are recommended.

Armour and armament are as Type XII-XIII with standard retrofitted sponson mounts, energy re-chargers and ammunition supply feeds.

[Please note that the Damacles Pattern (Type XIV) Leman Russ has been withdrawn from active service due to dysfunctional filtration units.]

Description of an upgrade to what seem to be a 'Russes' batteries. One presumes that it only powers the electrical systems (sensors or targeters), but it may also power the lascannon as well.
The batteries seem to have built in solar recharging units (much like some versions of Space Marine armour or las-weaponry.)

Of further note is the "Adaptable thermic combustor", and the further mentioin of "nondried vegetative matter" or "foodstuffs" - basically a reinforcement that you can literally run a Russ engine on anything with apparently very little adaptation."

The measurements are largely nonsensical and archaic (kilocubits would probably be ea measure of area, since a "cubit" is an archaic measurement of length. And a picocandel would be a tinyy unit of luminosity)

Also mention of "filtration units".

"Lance" Seeking Projectile

The Lance has a number of features which distinguish it from its predessesor, the "Flail", especially in adverse fighting conditions. Most importantly, the register modules of the aura imagifier have been brroadedned in vista, enabling targets to be located via a number of mediums. Modifications have been made to isolate the multiple retarded Stacked Atomic Cells used to link the mecha-thought member to the propulsion and stabilising systems, therby eliminating the incorrect "Deviant Perceived" signal which can lead to premature launch with the 'Flail'. The Lance is available with standard mass fragmentation and incision warheads and can be loosed from any ES-standard firing duct.

Some sort of guided missile. No mention of what venue (atmosphere or space) or vehciel (air or ground or what). Its apparently some sort of seeking warhead with variable means of tracking. The use of fragmentation warheads or "incision" may suggest some sort of ground attack/antipersonnel role or anti armour role. A "firing duct" would probably suggest its not an air to air or space missile, as does the "stabilizsing" systems.

90/110 Peta-watt Open-Core Plasma Ioniser

The 90/110 peta-watt open-core plasma ioniser remains the most effective power generator in terms of pure energy output since it sre-introduction by Magos Technis Voltar. Using time-honoured coolant-infusion systems, this plasma reactor is capable of sustained use for 1.9x10^56 hours, before core compression factors exceed tolerable values. Exo-thermic residues equate to one part in five thousand, requiring isolation to be stabilised at roughly 1/126 span ratio. With the open-core plasma ioniser, an omophagic system vents ionised particulate matter through an electromagnetic shielded sub-chamber which in turn re-refines the plasma and allows it to be re-invested back into the main core. This plasma ioniser requires roughly fifteen thousand man-seconds maintenance cycle.

This is a kind of plasma reactor, probably for some very large ground vehicle or perhaps a Titan or Superheavy or perhaps a fighter. "Petawatt" output would put it in the kiloton/megaton range, depending on how many petawatts we're talking about.

Interesting details are the "sustained use" (either 1.9e56 hours, or 1.9e3 hours... I'm banking on the former really since it looks like exponetnial notation.) as well as the fact the reactor seems to be capable of "recycling/re-using" its fuel, which suggests something exotic despite implications in other soures of plasma reactors or weaposn utilizing "matter to energy" conversion procecsses.

the "fifteen thousand man-seconds" maintenance cylce is not easily defined, but suggests they aren't vey maintanence intensiove (like most Imperium tech, really.)

Parcae Inorganic Cogitator

Drawing on a number of theories pronounced by Magos Wilhem Gaytes, the Parcae inorganic cogitator was designed for integration into the logistical and analytical engines employed by the quartermasters of the now-defunct Logistica Corpus in the Time of Deliverance. Drawing on a massive capacity (almost fifty kilo-brains of information can be contemplated at one time) the Parcae excels in the analysis of current trends and rationales and the prodiction of logistical dispositions over a twenty circuit period. The Parcae can be amalgamated (with correct translators and mechisophical interpreters as indicated on the EXgr-76 Requisition/Trade Docket [purple-bordered]) to any of the series-d electmandes to provide a powerful yet accessible analytical engine capable of meeting needs for logistical ratiocination well into the future.

I have no idea what a "kilo-brain" is or how it can bea measured/quantified (except maybe that a Cogitator is 50,000x smarter or better thinker than a human, or can do the work of 50,000 humans in a similar length of time.) and that it implies heavily that the Imperium uses more AI tech than previously imagined, even if it isn't thought of in that manner - basically it all points to the cogitator thinking quite easily for itself.

Holo-reactive Prime Interface System

Our research into pre-Imperial data nods found in the oldest archive of the Temple Majoris of the Machine God has allowed us to recreate this complex artifice within the capabilities at our present disposal. Now capable of integration with any Ereclitheus-pattern sub-system, this control system uses a means of hololithic projection to enable the terminal interfacer to impose his will upon his attendant machines with a simple gesture or series of movements. Although the interface requires approximately three standard-years integrration to be used to full effect, the subservient machine's responses and accruacy are vastly improved. By projecting a holo-tactile image around the controller, this system allows the biological unit to activate and deactivate the enslaved sysems by pressing pulling or turning the projections. However, unlike conventional interactive systems which use purely physical components, the holo-reactive prime interface employs a projector system which occupies far less volume. Our recent insights into the wisdom of the Machine God now allows the holo-projection system to be tailored, enabling it to interact with the available space therefore making it ideal for use in confined conditions.

Non mechanical (hololithic/interactive/VR) interface.

Hydroplastic actuators for Mk CVI Ambulatory Freight Hoist

As you may have noticed, the replacement hydroplastic actuators for the MkCVI now utilize a type-GX silicontheric strand developed by the Revered Ancestors and now released into our wisdom by the researches of our Esteemed Magos STrandox. The hydroplastic is activated by thermal charge (between 1/1098 1/1785 therms/picathought) causing the actuator to expand or contract at the rate of 5 ells/minute with a pressure of 650 p/12. In operational terms, this allows the freight hoise to carry burdens of up to 7.68x10^5 drams an increase of 4/1000 over previous actuators, and more than enough to cope with any stnadard duties. The actuators can be constructed for 4/4,005 sensitiveity for carrying fragile cargoes, up to 500/1000 if the emphsis you need is on speed rather than dextrous handling. As it comprsies a bio-mechanical procecssor, the actuator arrangement, when installed, is fitted with a styro-liquid energy dispersal system, utilising a sucrose-based solution. This sucrosol transmits energy frfom the thermic charge chamber to the required actuator through osomtic pressure, and rrequires a recycle-cleare to maintain maximum efficiency (which can be supplied at additonal expenditure.)

This has to sound the most technobabblish bit of tehcnology yet (the "sucrosol solution" makes me think it uses sugar of some kind) - the biomechanical bit makes me think its some sort of artificial bionic or servitor arm writ large. The actuators also soudn vaguely quasi-organic, or maybe some sort of memory plastic or wnathot. In any case, the vast majority of the stats are (to me at least) nonseniscal, save the burden carrying.

One dram equals about 1.8 grams. 768,000 drams works out to about 1.38 million grams, or roughly 1.38 tons. (assuming its 7.68x105 drams is pretty absurd, since thats only ~800 drams, or about 1.5 kg.)

[Connor MacLeod]

since I'm bored, and I snagged a peek at IA 5, I'm going to note one thing:

the 814 m/s muzzle velocity and the 15 km range are both given, as is the 38 kg projectile. What is interesting is that another detail is given.. that it takes ~19 seconds for the projectile to reach 15 kms. Trajectory wise, this is a flat or nearly flat trajectory (say no more than 10 degreeS) - that would mean the weapon's range in "assault gun" mode.

With a higher arc (say 45 degreeS), much higher ranges become possible... at 45 degrees with 814 m/s you could arguably reach out to 60-70 kms ignoring other potential factors (like weather/climate, atmosphere, etc.) By comparison, a Modern 155mm howitzer typically maxes out range wise at around 30-40 km.

Furthermore, it is stated that with extra powder (6 or 7 charges, IIRC), it is possible to achieve higher velociites (probably over 1000 m/s) which means the ranges could get much higher, 100 kilometers or more.

[Connor MacLeod]

Battle for MacCragge game..

Krak missiles provide a tightly focused impact designed for cracking the armour of tanks, bunkers, or other tough targets.

...

the bolter is a short, compact gun that fires a smart missile considerably larger than an ordinary bullet. It can be used to pick of enemies at a distance, or for rapid short ranged-bursts.

Description of bolters and krak miissiles. not ethe krak weapon is implied to be a shaped charge effect.

Magna Power field projectors: These sturdy, short-ranged power field generators have been used for millenia to erect temporary barriers that protect against hostile enviroments and life forms. At full power, the field can resist even a charging bull grox for a few minutes.

In the game Ultramarines use the power field as a defense against Tyranids. Indicative of mobile, porttable forcefield defenses for the Imperium's military forces.

Fusion cores form the basis of engines on many Imperial craft, though knowledge of their inner workings is restricted to the ancient brotherhood of the Adeptus Mechanicus. They can also become devastating fusion bombs if rigged to overload.

This probably isn't "real life" fusion, since real life fusion reactors really don't blow up, but it does suggest that Imperial craft use more exotic power sources than chemical or fusion materials (we alreay know some atmospheric-capable fighters use plasma reactors after all, from the Armageddon novels.) The craft in question here was a shuttle, if I remember correctly.

Before any help could arrive, the Benedicto suffered a series of catastrophic explosions and broke up, its demise enscribing a fiery arc in the upper reaches of Macragge's atmosphere.

Even as the wreckage was rainign down across hundreds of kilometers of northern tundra...

...

... the adamantium canister protecting it [gene-seed] should have survived the impact and had to be found and secured at any cost.

Adamantium cannister survived the explosion of the shuttle and atmospheric reentry and subsequent impact with the ground (as did the contents.) This probably tells us something about the thermal and structural tolerancees of such materials (since we're talking a probable hypersonic/hypervelocity impact - meaning lots of energy. And atmospheric heating would also be significant - modern amterials generlaly cant handle that without special modifications.)

"Brother Septimus, erect the power field." growled Octavian. "Here is where we stand and fight."

As noted above, the Ultramarines use a portable power field as a defense in combat.

"By the Throne, these hellspawn are fast!" yelled Brother Arrain, his bolter spitting death and blowing an advancing Genestealer apart in a spray of chitin and blood.

Genestealer blasted apartt by bolter fire from a Space Marine weapon. According to IA4, a Genestealer masses some 300 kilograms, about 4x the mass of a human. A single grenade (as indicated in the "Grenades and guts" can completely obliterate a human torso (call it about 30-40 kilos of mass) - we can infer that a boltgun volley is therefore equal to about 8-10 grenades or so. A frag grenade has about .23 kilos of TNT, so we might expect said volley to be potentially equal to up to several kilos of TNT, although they aren't detonating all at once, and the kinetic impactor aspect of the bolt round can be something of a factor. Even a fraction of that yield (say half a kilo) would be substantial in terms of firepower

It would also suggest, even at the low end (assuming 6 shells containing 50 grams of explosive equaling half a kilo of TNT) that Imperial explosive sare considerably more powerful than modern ones. (something we've encountered multiple times - this just helsp reinforce the idea.) And this is consistent behaviour with bolt guns in other examples too.

[Connor MacLeod]

Space Hulk (video game) - from the fluff section

Page 2

Whereas it once took centuries forhuman spacecraft to travel to Sol's closest neighboruing star, the same distance could suddenly be covered in just a few hours.[

"Centuries" implies tens or hundreds of light years. Covering a similar distance in a "few hours" implies velocities well into the tens of thousands of times the speed of light, if not hundreds of thousands.

Page 5

The largest and most advanced human civilisation ever, the Imperium encompasses millions of stars and planets. Each human colony in this vast galactic realm is an island in a sea of emptiness, separated from its neighbors by thousands of light years of space.

Millions of stars and planets in the Imperium, with an average distance of thousands of light years between each world (which corresponds roughly to the velocities suggested above.)

Page 5

Two points taht, in our reality, are tens of thousands of light years apart might be separated by a few miles in warp space.

....

Thus its possible for a suitably equipped ship to enter warp space through a warp gate, travel for a few hours, and re-emerge in our space millions of miles from the ship's departure point.

First point probably highlights how there is no definite correlation between real space and warp, or even consistency in the warp (since an Imperial warship could easily cover a few miles in a matter of seconds) - it goes without saying that this would imply insanely high FTL speeds (hundreds of millions if not billions times c.)

The second point probably means many billions/trillions of miles in reality, because "millions" of miles wouldn't even cover one AU, much less a light year. And probably highlights the far end of the scale for warp travel (ie a very slow one, because that velocity is positively sublight.)

Page 5

Warp Space allows a spacecraft to travel hundreds of thousands of light years in only a few hours.

Hundreds of thousands o flight years in a few hours is between 580 million and 900 million times the speed of light.

[andrewgpaul]

Space Hulk (video game) - from the fluff section

Page 2

Whereas it once took centuries for human spacecraft to travel to Sol's closest neighboruing star, the same distance could suddenly be covered in just a few hours.[

"Centuries" implies tens or hundreds of light years. Covering a similar distance in a "few hours" implies velocities well into the tens of thousands of times the speed of light, if not hundreds of thousands.

Er, doesn't that say they went from taking hundreds of years to travel 4 light years to Alpha Centauri, to taking hours to do so? So that's about 2 LY/hour or more, or about 35,000c +.

[Cykeisme]

Whereas it once took centuries for human spacecraft to travel to Sol's closest neighboruing star, the same distance could suddenly be covered in just a few hours.

Hmm, the specific comparison used in the reference seems to indicate that they're referring very early applications of warp travel that were used on mankind's first interstellar voyage.


Btw, are the any indications on the velocity of a bolter shell? I suppose since it's self-propelled, "muzzle velocity" wouldn't be nearly as important an indicator as for normal slug-throwing weapons.

Does it vary considerably (regardless of whether it's acceleration or deceleration)? If so, it would either take either some sort of computer-assisted targeting or high levels of skill and familiarity.
Of course, with Astartes, the latter is more than covered.. but the Guard also uses heavy bolters and such.

[Connor MacLeod]

Does it vary considerably (regardless of whether it's acceleration or deceleration)? If so, it would either take either some sort of computer-assisted targeting or high levels of skill and familiarity.
Of course, with Astartes, the latter is more than covered.. but the Guard also uses heavy bolters and such.

Nothing obviously stated, although given that bolters work like a gyrojet (Stated in a number of sources) and they have ranges of hundreds of meters (up to a kilometer or so) they're bound to be supersonic.

The implied momentum in a number of cases also tends to suggest this (enough to send people flying)

[Connor MacLeod]

Four separrate sourcecs this time, each a bunch of smaller quotes, but from a related source (Space Hulk basically._)

Space Hulk Rules 1st ed (if I recall the source correctly.)

Page 1

The Emperor of human space has recently become aware of the Stealer's activities and is taking immediate steps to isolate and stamp out the attack - but at a terrible price - the Emperor's Inquisitors ruthlessly sterilize tainted planets, wiping out their populations to the last man, woman, and child.

Though thus far 100% effective at stopping the spread of the Stealers beyond the infected planets, this solution is not without its drawbacks. In addition to the obvious loss of life and resources, if news of the scorched earth policy spreads, local governments may naturally become reticent about telling the Imperium they have been infiltrated.

It is mentioned here that the only reliable means of halting the genestealers is to sterilize a tainted planet. As mentioned in the "caves of ice" bombardment calcs, we can attach a very specific output to this level of firepower tens or hundreds of billions of megatons minimum, enough to boil/vaporize a planet's oceans and the like.

Of further interest is that such attacks also deprive the Imperium of access to the planet's resources (in addition to the loss of life.) As we know from BDZ estimates, resource destruction encompasses an energy input far in excecss of mere "extinction event" phenomena, and reinforces the extreme energies indicated by "sterilization".

We can also apply this figure to the BFG exterminatus calc (Capital ship being able to Exterimantus a planet in a matter of hours. From the bombardment calc mentioned before, we can figure on between e26 and e27 joules of energy for "sterilization", roughly. A light cruiser will be the smallest vessel qualifying as a capital ship. Therefore, for a light cruiser to "sterilize" a planet in a matter of "hours (2-23 hours). The sustained firepower for a light cruiser performing an exterminatus to sterilize a planet will fall somewhere between e21-e22 watts (nearly a day) and e23-e24 watts (2 hours). Or somewhere between (roughly) single digit and triple digit TT/sec.

Page 13

the storm bolter, the Spacee Marine's standard firearm, fires small, high velocity bolts with explosive tips, capable of blasting through eight inches of plasteel as though it were tissue paper.

The stated penetrative capabilites of storm bolters against plasteel. Given that storm bolters use the same ammo as bolter and bolt pistols , we can probably conclude that those weapons have similar penetration characteristics.

Since we know the approximate dimensions of a bolt round, if we knew its other properties (force and momentum) we could (in theory) get an idea of just how strong plasteel might be.

<<<>>>


Space hulk 2nd edtion missions book

Page 2

This proceess [Space Marine creation] takes many years and can only occur while the Space Marine is still growing,

Page 2

Most, but by no means all, of the Chapters number about 1,000 men, organsied into 10 companies of one hundred men each. Some Chapters are considerably larger or smaller than this, however, and Chapters are often increased beyond their standard strength if they are involved in a protracted or highly intensive war.

Indication that while 1000 men is considered the "average" for a Chapter, it is not definite (some are larger, some are smaller.) It is also noted (of interest) that in times of war Chapters may recruit beyond their standard strength. It is interesting to speculate as to what becomes of any "left over" recruits once that war is over - are they kept in the Chapter, or does something else happen.

Page 2

Inside its hard ceramite and heavy-gauge plasteel exterior hides a full exo-skeleton of fibre bundles and adamantium rods...

...

All the suits contain their own independent power supply and enclosed life support systems as well as a special motion scanner that indicates the positions of any life forms and follows their movmements.

Terminator armour. It's interesting to note that even by Space Marine standards, Terminator armour is too heavy to lift/walk in without an exoskeleton and adamantium structural support (the "rods") Given that an unarmourd space marine is 10x stronger than a normal man and that with power armour his strength is dozens of times a nromal person, its likely the armour weighs at least one or two tons.

Page 3

They [bolts] are shot from the Storm Bolter under low velocity, they're own propellant igniting once they'r eclear of the barrel.

"low velocity" is persumably subsonic, sincee I dont recall a supersonic "bang" being associated with bolt rounds (and for many guns recoil isnt an issue.) Though Spacee MArine bolter recoil is significant by an unarmoured person's stnadards.

PAge 4

Indeed, it is not unknown for a ship to drop back into real space before even setting out on its journey.

a well known phenomenon of the Warp involving time travel.

Page 5

No-one knows how many space hulks there are. Millions of human vessels have been lost in the warp: countless billions more must have been lost by other races over the millenia.

If we knew something of the percantage of ships lost in the Warp by the Imperium. it might be possible to estimate fleet sizes. It must not be VERY larrge (less than 10%) so we might suggest many tens or hundreds of thousands of ships, minimum.

Of course, we already know that there are millions of freighters in the Imperium, so losing a few hundred or a few thousand a year seems a tiny number by comparison (less than a tenth of a percent.)

Page 5

Some creatures, such as Orks and Chaos Space Marines, lack the organisation or technology to create warp-capable spacecraft, and often use abandoned space hulks or pirate vessels.

The implication is that the Orks and CSM's (as a rule) generally lack the industy or infrastructure to build their own warp-capable ships, so they have to steal or capture them (or use Space hulks.)

Page 29

If genestelaer infestation reached too high a level for the Imperium ot suppress, only one option remained: Exterminatus - the desrction of the entire planet.

This corroborates the earlier notion about "sterilization" being an Exterminatus event, thus lending credence to the calcs established above.

<<<>>>

Space Hulk Rules for Space Marine Squads


Page 57

Crack [grenade] is a target effect grenade. It is a sticky, shaped charrge that is used against armoured targets.

Crack grenades are specifically identifed as being shaped charges here. The "sticky" part presumably means that its designed to be adhesive to targets when thrown (magnetically for example.)

Page 57

Melta bombs are target effect grenades that superheat the area and melt-down anything in contact with it.

...

When a melta-bomb is thrown the Marine player selects the target square and removes anything in it. A pitfall marker is then placed facedown in the square. The marker represents a mass of hot gases and molten metals and completely blocks LOS and movement.

This indicates that anything attacked by a meltabomb is melted/vaporized (like with a meltagun) - For something large (like a tank) this could easily be in the double or tirple digit GJ range.

By comparison, the "Davy crockett" nukes could vary between 10 tons and 1 kiloton in terms of yield (but weighed something like 35 kg, while melta bombs are quite a bit less bulky.)

Considering the existence of melta missiles (IE Ghostmaker) and other sources, man portable weapons comparable to small nuclear weapons are not uncommon.

Page 57

Plasma grenades are section effect grenades that explode in a split second burst of superheated plasma. The detonation is over in a flash, so plasma grenades do not block line of sight.

Another "nuke like" weapon along with melta weapons, though they don't seem as common.

Page 64

Eureka: a medium-sized planet in a system containing an amazingly rich asteroid belt. A planet that has been contaminated with a heavy Genestealer presence.

Action required: to obliterate the infection.

Solution: Extreme action required. Suggest we redirect ore asteroid to impact with the planet's surface.

The Space Marines deem it neccesary to wipe out a Genestealer infestation by dropping a big rock on the planet. A probable extinction level event.

Page 64

By jettisoning the tug itself, he could redirect the massive chunk of ore to impact onto Eureka's surface with the force of a hundred thousand fusion bombs. The resulting destabilisation of the planet's orbit, the atmospheric pollution, and the rapid onset of the greenhouse effect would destroy the Genestealer population totally.

If we go by modern nuclear weapons, (50-60 megatons) the total yield would be about 5 or 6 teratons of TNT. Enough to cause nasty effects, but hardly enough to meet exterminatus standards.

If we go by 40K standards (ie the 610 GT warhead from 122 5 gigaton bombs) we can work out that that the asteroid would hit with a force close to 500 TT, which is within the lower limit of the extinction threshold (But not guaranteed as a kill.) If we use the whole 610 GT figure, it goes to 61 petatons, which would be within the "sterilization" threshold I mentioned before.

If we work backwards and assume a 1 billion megaton minimum, by the way, we can infer that an Imperium "fusion bomb" is at least 10 gigatons. Plasma torpedoes, established in "Space Fleet" to be 1000x more powerful than conventional nuclear weapons (presumably including fusion bombs) would be in the 1-10 TT range, depending on what kind of "nuclear" reaction it referred to.

If we apply the 61 Petaton figure to exterminatus calcs from BFG (1 light cruiser over a 2-23 hour timeframe), we get a firepower yield of between 800 gigatons and 8.5 TT minimum for a light cruiser.


Page 64

"This vessel?" Denzark points to the scarlet line edging its way into geostationary orbit, high above Eureka's surface.

"That's the tug, sir. It isn't a ship as such, simply a fusion engine and crew quarters attached to the ore, which has been welded into one massive block. Its over 700 meters wide and 3 km long, and contains thousands of millions of tonnes."

This provides another potential way to calc the the energy level delivered by the impact, if we knew the velocity.

incidentally, assuming the fusion engine provided a 3 gee acceleration for the mass given (2 billion tons), the engine would require a constant output of 1.6e22 watts. If we go with 300 gees, the output goes up to 1.6e24 watts. "billions of tons" would probably be well into the battlecruiser/battleship range of mass, incidentally.

If you wonder why I say that even though its got the volume (roughly) of a heavy cruiser - a heavy cruiser isn't a 100% solid lump of metal. Although if it was 90% empty (a reasonable assumption for a ship) we can infer a IoM cruiser masses in the tens or hundreds of millions of tons.

<<<>>>

Space hulk Genestealer

Page 9

It takes several seconds to build up the energy for a laser bolt and none of these weapons are capable of automatic or sustained fire - their energy is released as individual bolts that punch holes through their targets.

A very old space hulk referencece for laser weapons, weapons meant to be used by the genestealers against space marines. Unlike other lasguns (like those used by the Guard) these are very slow-firing semi-automatic weapons. Whether this is indicative of them being very inferior or poor quality, or if this is meant to suggest they are much stronger than other lasguns, it is not said. We may conclude that if the latter, the "several second" recharge may hint at them being at least several times more powerful than regular lasweapons (possibly lasweapons on full atuo.)

[Connor MacLeod]

Well, I can't decide whether to let this thread die (Yet) or continue on. In the meantime I figured I could cover the Tau stuff... (or start to)

Tau Codex, 2001

Page 3

Almost as soon as he did so, three of the Gue'la vehicles exploded and lurched sideways, black smoke pouring from the neat holes in their front and rear armour. The hypervelocity slugs of the rail guns were too fast even for Kais' augmented vision, leaving only searing afterimages where the friction of their passage had ignited the air.

description and effect of Tau railguns on Imperial vehicles.

Page 3

The Gue`la in front of the vehicle fell, cut to ribbons by the Pathfinder's weapons.

Effects of a Tau pathfinder's weapon (presumably a pulse rifle). May or may not be figruative.

Page 4

Though not extensive it encompasses a region of space some three hundred light years in diameter, with the Tau home world at its centre, ,and nearly a hundred settled worlds.

Scope and size of the Tau Empire (at least circa the 2001 Codex.)

Page 10

I have seen Kroot returning from service with the Shas'ar'tol which have developed an ability to withstand chlorine atmoshpere in the course of a few tau'cyr. Major changes I would suggest are possible, but require a grreater exposure to the source of the mutation, possibly over several generations.

Evolved capabilites of Kroot (or at least certian Kroot)

Page 10

They [Kroot] still retain beaks and a light bone structure.

Despite being physically powerful, this tends to suggest they're probably not nearly as tough/durable physically as a Space Marine or Ork, although they may have similar resilience in other respects.

Page 11

The ganglia run the length of their crests and are very efficient at interpreting sensory information, a feature which, combined with their superb senses, makes the Kroot very difficult to hide from.

...

Kroot interpret what they perceive and react accordingly, with little emotional clutter.

Description of a Kroot's sensory apparatus.

Page 11

the Kroot have little capacity for further mutation without seriously destabilising their DNA. They cannot therefore acquire every advanced trait they encounter or their variety will end, trapped in a single form that is a genetic dead end. Kroot Hounds and Krootox are examples of this error being made in the past. Kroot history is littered with these evolutionary cul-de-sacs, although their rapid development is a testamnet to its effectiveness.[

Limitations of the Kroot's ability to engineer/mutate themselves.


Page 11

The Kroot digestive system is capable of breaking down virtually any organic substance to a pure energy form which they retain in organs called nymunes, spread throughout the body. The stored energy can be used to maintain the Kroot during a lengthy hibernation period. The Kroot, as carrion eaters, are quite content to wait out their prey, ,and can intitiate a state of hibernation at will during which their metabolism slows to a halt.

..

Unable to urinate or defecate, they have probably the most efficient digestive system I have ever examined. Virtually nothing they consume is wasted although some undigestable materials are regurgitated and chemicals synthesized from their food are released as thick viscous sweat.

Kroot digestive system in detail.

Page 11

Standing about 30% taller than us, the Kroot are lean and wiry. They have muscels like metal cables, able to pull taut in an instant, giving them a jerky, deceptively fast gait. They can jump large distances when they need to and can manoeuvre through the branches of trees iwht practiced ease. They seem to ignore the shifts in climate and atmosphere.

...

the Kroot are superb mimics and are able to link sounds to a particular piece of body language quickly.

Physical description of Kroot and an indication of their mimicry abilities.

Page 11

Whilst we cannot be certain, it is our current belief that the Kroot still have the capacity for further selective mutation. There seems to be several different approaches to achieving this among the Kroot. All Shapers seem to belong to one of a number of kindreds, each seeking a different path.

..

We have evidence that each kindred has a fractionally different genetic code to the others.

Further commentary on Kroot mutation abilities.

Page 15

The Manta Missile Destroyer is the nearest Tau equivaeltn of Human Titans or Ork Gargants. It is a dropship, several times larger than a Thunderhawk gunship, which is capable of operating as either a skimmer or a flyer on the battlefield. In space it is a match for whole squadrons of Imperial fighters and is on the borderline between being an attack craft and a full starship. It is equipped with an ether drive, but is not nearly as fast as a true starship over interstellar distances. Each Manta carries a full Hunter CAdre of between fifty and one hundred Tau. All of the troops carried will either be mounted in gravitic vehicles or equipped with jet packs, and can all deploy from the Manta Missile Destroyer at altitude.

The Manta Missile Destroyer is well shielded and is armed with heavy railguns. The guns fire a heavy shell that uses fins for additional lift to give it remarkable range in atmosphere. Each shell is fitted with a Tau Drone processor, which is programmed to direct the shell to its target. The drone is equipped with a manuvering thruster for this purpose. As a Manta nears its target, batteries of close-range ion cannons take over. It serves as a drop ship and heavy fire support for Tau forces.

Description of the Tau Mantas, it is described as being "equal" to a Titan (presumably in firepower and durability both), as well as being "several times larger" than a Thunderhawk (which suggests it is as massive, possibly more so, than a Imperial Navy fighter or bomber, which can easily mass several hundred tons.) Its description as being "borderline" between a fighter and a starship tends to suggest it may be larger (as massive as true titans, perhaps.)

It is also worth noting it has some limited FTL capabilitiy, and also gives us a rough indication of the cutoff point between a fighter/small craft/shuttle and a capital ship/warship.

Also note that the railgun shells the Manta fires actually seem to be more like smart missiles (kinda like LAAT gunship missiles.)

Page 15

The Barracuda is the most common Tau atmospheric flyer, although different Air caste septs tend to operate slightly different verisons. The Barracudda is faster than the Imperial Marauder bomber, but slightly slower than the Thunderbolt fighter. Its electronic systems are very advanced though, and it tends to achieve target locks quicker than the Thuhnderbolt. Barracudas carry wing-mounted, drone-controlled burst cannon and a pilot aimed ion cannon.

...

All pilots are of the Air caste and have superior three-dimensional situational awareness to Human pilots and marginarlly higher acceleration tolerancee.

Tau aircrat/fighter and comparison of how they stack up to Imperium fighters. Note that this also indicates that Imperium thunderbolts have electronic targeting gear as well as do Tau craft, but just that the Tau's are (naturally) better.

Page 16

Crisis, Stealth, and Broadside battlesuits are equipped with a number of variable spectrum sensors and scanners.

"variable spectrum" presumably refers to both electromagnetic sensors (passive and active) as well as other kinds (like motion sensors or lifeform sensors.)

Tau jetpacks [on Crisis Battlesuits and Stelath suits] are extremely agile, combining anti-gravitiic and jet technology.

Tau jetpacks, like Imperium jump packs, use a combination of reaction thrust and anti-grravity to achieve their mobility.


Page 16

Stealthsuits incorporate a holographic disruption field that makes the wearer harder ot spot

Operating mechanism of Tau stealth suits. It seems to emphasize hologrgaphic camoflage or something akin to Eldar "holo fields" rather than actually bending or distorting light (compared to mirror shields that the Imperium uses..)

Page 17

The tau plasma rifle is lower powered than its Imperial equivalent but does not suffer from overheating.

The Tau fusion blaster is similar to the Imperial meltagun in design and effect.

The Taul battlesuit railgun uses linear accelerator technology to project a solid projectile at hypervelocity.[/quiote]

Note that the main difference between tau plasma guns and Imperium plasma guns is that they trade firepower for increasd realiability.

Battlesuit railguns are also "hypervelocity". Wikipedia tends to classify this as being at least 2-3 km/s (hypervelocity impacts of meteorites could be faster, at tens of km/s) though in context it could be lower (tank guns have been considered hypervelocity as well, and tha tcan be as low as 1 km and 1.5 km/s, for example.)


Page 18

The standard drone consists of an advanced processor, which individually is approximately as intelligent as a pterasquirrel.

The Drone unit is conventionally disc-shaped, well armoured and used for both tedious and dangerous duties.

"standarD" tau drones.

PAge 19

Photon grenades are designed to assault the enemy with a sonic blast and an overpowering pulse of multi-specturm light.

...

EMP grenades briefly emit an electro-magnetic pulse which overlaods circuitry, causes fires, meltdowns and other critical malfunctions.

Tau specialty grenades. Note that EMP weapons seem to be implied to do some physical damage.

Page 19

All three [pulse rifle/carbine and burst cannon] weapons are variants aof the same technology. An induction field is used to propel a particle. The particle reacts by breaking down to create a plasma pulse as it leaves th ebarrel. The burst cannon is a multi-barreled version of the carbine able to sustain higher rates of fire but lacking the grenade launcher.

Operation of pulse weaponry, including burst cannon. This tends to sugget they may be a hybrid version of plasma and railgun weapons.

Page 19

The railgun is a linear accelerator which functions using standing wave acceeleration along a number of cylindrical superdconduictive electrodes that surround the barrel. It can fire either a solid projectile ro a sophisticated bundle of submuitions.

Taul railguns have "kinetic kill" as well as "submunition" projectiles, though the kind of submunitions aren't specified.

Page 19

Ion weaponry generates a stream of high-energy particle that are accelerated by an electromagnetic field. These will react explosively with the target as a result of direct transfer of energy at the atomic level.

Ion cannons are basically charged particle beam weapons.

Page 19

The Smart missile launcher fires a cluster of small missiles. Each missile is guided by a drone processor unit built into its warhead. Upon launch, the smart missile will search for targets before selecting and engaging one based on criteria previously detialed by its operator.

This missile launcher would seem to operate similarily to Imperial Hunter-killer missiles.

Page 19

Sensor spines are arrayed over a vehicle to allow it to detect a range of hazards.

...

Targeting arrays assist the vehicles gunner's aim by adjsuting for the target's range and speed.

Tau vehicles have sensors and targeting arrays.


PAge 20

Decoy launchers are moutned near the engines of Tau skimmers and fire clouds of reflective strips and tiny emitter drones to protect the vulnerable thruster arrays.

...

A disruption pod throws out distorting images in both visual and magnetic spectra, making it hard to target at long range.

Tau vehciles ar also equipped with decoys/chaff and ECM pods.

Page 28

Acting in support of Fire warrior teams and armed with twin-linked pulse carbines, squadrons [4-8 drones per squadron] of gun drones can pin enemy troops in place while the main body of the Tau army takes further shots as the advancing enemy.

Role and use of gun-armed drones.

Page 30

Their guns punched through our [tank] armour like it was paper. All I could see were trails of fire where the projectiles had ignited the air.

Tau railguns on Imperial vehicle armor (a tank, probably a Russ). This indicates that its probably more powerful than the Imperial gun, but not neccearily in all respects (it may generate higher pressures due to smaller surface area, and/or due to the greater KE as well. Much like with modern subcalibre munitions vs "non-sabot" rounds.)

PAge 49

The Kroot swung the blade attached to his primitive firearm up and hacked through the barrel as she pressed the firing stud. The rifle's charging chamber exploded in a searing white fireball and Laeresh fell, burnt and half-blinded. Most of the Kroot's head had been blasted away and it toppled forward, pinning her against th etree.

Eldar scout's rifle (which is at least partly a laser weapon, as well as a needler) blows away "most" of a Kroot's head. The implicaton seems to be that the wound is cauterized, given the lack of bleeding. Assuming the Kroot's head is at leaast comparable to a humans (4-5 kg) this probably means at least 2-3 kg affected. Which would put the Eldar lasweapon in the low MJ range (at least a couple MJ.).

Page 51

In time, O'Shovah's forces pushed back into several Ork held systems in the Damocles Gulf and inflicted Exterminatus upon their worlds, effectively terminating the immediate threat.

Tau forces are capable of conducting Exterminatus. This tends to suggest they're vessels are ROUGHLY comparable to Imperium ones, at least in terms of power generation/firepower.

PAge 58

The [Damocles Gulf] crusade was based around a dozen capital ships, five provisional companies of Space Marines made up of contingents from a dozen Chapters, and nineteen regiments of Imperial Guard, seven of them from brimlock.

Description of the Damocles gulf Crusade. AS Crusades go, its not as impressive as others (such as the Sabbat Worlds Crusade, ,whcih had over a billion Guardsmen at the start and thousands of warhsips.)

Page 58

Seven Tau warships of approximately cruiser displacement were detected at the edge of the systme. The Crusade fleet attacked immediately, but found the Tau ships to be capable of launching powerful torpedo salvos at long range, breaking up the Imperial formation. Bomber waves were launched but these were countered by Tau escrots launched from the capital ships.

Description of Tau space combat tactics. Note that this does carry an implication of FTL sensors and multi-AU combat ranges (both for Tau and human ships.)

This also suggest sthat, if each system has at least 7 cruisers, the Tau could have hundreds (say 700) cruiser sized vessels, which would imply dozens of battleships and thousands of escorts.

Page 58

The Sy'kell system contained an apparently fertile agri-world with a apopulation estimated at seven million Tau.

A rough indicator of the size of a Tau "Agri-world", though other sources (Such as Kill team) tend to s uggest Tau worlds aren't nearly as densely populated as their human equivalents tend to be. This does suggest that there are perhaps at least 700 million Tau, probably more though.

Page 58

The Tau grav-tank, designated the Hammerhead, appeared to be a close match for the Leman Russ,

Comparison of the tau hammerhead vs a Russ. Despite having a somewhat superior gun, the Hammerhead is not considered drastically superior.

Page 58

an expeditionary force was sent to deal with the Tau presence in the Viss'el system. Early reconnaissance had revealed the sixth planet to be an ice covered water world on which the Tau had established fishery colonies. As no great strategic benefit was evident to controlling the planet, it was subjected to orbital bombardment, melting the ice around the main colonies and destroying them.

An orbital bombardment of unknown scope and duration melting ice around Tau colonies (of unknown size) It would have to be less than a dozen capital ships, and less extreme than an Exterminatus.

Page 59

Although the warsphere, Tau fleet and orbital station were destroyed, it was at a cost of four capital ships and fourteen escorts.

Losses taken against a Tau/Kroot combined combat fleet.

[Connor MacLeod]

More tau stuff, this time from the 2006 codex...

Page 4

Though not extensive, it encompasses a region of space some three hundred light years in diameter, with the Tau homeworld at its centre, and just over a hundred settled worlds. A number of these worlds are home to alien races which are either subservient to the Tau or whose serviecs are bought.

The scope and size of hte Tau Empire. At best, we can consider they are comparable in size and scope perhaps to an Imperial Sector in most respects, though probably much more heavily militarized.

If we consider that there could be around 4 billion tau per planet (which might be approximate, if not somewhat generous) then their populations are probably in the mid hundred billions to low trillions range (although proably not even quite a trillion, given commentary in novels like Kill Team.)

Page 6

After the successful navigation of a warp riflt, the Ethereals and Air Caste worked to refine the technique of travelling through warp space but, without the specialised mutation of the Navigator gene, their colony ships could only make short 'hops' into warp space, skimming the edges of the Immaterium. With the tightly packed nature of the Tau Empire, this did not prove to be a probelm and protected them from many of the inherent dangers of warp travel.

The Tau express at least two kinds of FTL travel - they can navigate (in some limited fashion, at least) Warp rifts (this we see in Kill Team as well, btw) and by making short "hops" into Warp space. Its not clear whether this references the Tau's own kind of FTL drive (the sub-warp drive, ether drive, or whatever they call it) or an actual, full fledged warp drive.

Page 6

Such talents [psychic abilities/psykers] were a mystery to the Tau as they had no psychic abilities whatsoever, their minds barely even registering in the Warp at all.

Comment on the Tau and their relation ot the warp. They DO appear to have some presecne, but a very negligible one. This gives us an indicator as to how non-psyker entities would respond to Warp and associated things (possession/corruption, Chaos, etc.)

We may also surmise that this low "presence" is probably due to an absence of genetic tinkering to enhance psyker abilities (which other races like the Eldar, Orks, and Humans seem to have endured, if the Necron POV on matters and other data is to be believed.)

An interesting speculation in relation to this and the supposed navigation of "warp rifts" or making short "warp jumps" - does this reduced sensitivity confer some limited protection from the nonphysical dangers of the warp? Possibly, although ti doesnt neccesarily mean that gellar fields aren't needed. (although this DOES bring up interesting questions. Did the tau have gellar fields when navigating warp rifts? Or some analogue?)

Page 9

Engineers and scientists beyond compare, the Earth caste are responsible for the maintenance of Tau technology but, unlike the Techpriest sof the Imperium, they fully understand the workings of their machines and are capable of more than simply reproducing ancient designs.

A suggestive comparison between Techpriests and Eartth Caste. Though its a bit biased to say that the Admech NEVER does research, never seeks to improve, enhance, or otherwise upgrade their own technical knowledge or understanding - they just do so in a much more selective and restricted fashion than the Tau (which of course is because alot of the Imperium's tech IS heavily warp based or warp influenced, which can lead to dangers like possessed robots or some such.)

It is worth noting, however that the Earth Caste seems to share the AdMech view that sacrificing lives for the sake of technology is a valid one (There's a story in the codex about the testing of a TAu railgun leading to the death of a fire warrior. The Tau seem to embrace a Star Trek Federation approach to engineering and testing.)

Page 9

It is speculated that they exert some kind of pheremone based or latent psychic control over the other castes, as loyalty to the Ethereals is absolute and unswerving. If an Ethereal were of such a mind, he could order another Tau to kill himself and he would be obeyed immediately. The Adeptus Mechancius and Adeptus Arbites are very interested in this aspect of Tau culture...

Description of Etherals and their ability to influence/control other Tau. The "latent psychic" idea seems to have been discounted in favor of pheremones though, if I remember Xenology correctly.

Curiously, though, the example that a "tau ordered to kill himself would be obeyed" would tend to argue or suggest it might be MORE than just pheremones - it may also suggest an extreme degree of conditioning or brainwashing on the part of the Tau culture. Indeed, one would have to wonder just why their caste-based system is so very stable without some sort of of external manipulation/influences. And certainly it suggests a measure of inherent fanatacism (which woudl also explain why the Tau invariably believe they can topple the Imperium despite the vast disparity in size and capability.)

Page 10

Perhaps unsurprisingly, few races are willing to surrender unreservedly, and so the Fire caste has gone to war on numerous occasions. Those worlds that will not willingly join the empire are dragged to the negotiating table under threat of annihilation. Those that remain openly defiant face obliteration under the orbital guns of the Air caste fleet.

Despite the propoganda of the Tau being "good guys" and their "greater good" philosohpy, the facts demonstate they are (in terms of ethics) little better htan the Imperium, save that they are perhaps less picky about who they conquer and incorporate into their Empire. Of course, as we noted in the earlier codex, ,the Tau will openly render Exterminatus on a planet

Page 10

The Tau empire encompasses a dense yet astrographically small area of space. Many hundreds of star systems exist within this region, and an unusually high proportion harbour an enviroment conducive to life. As the Tau steadily expand the borders of their empire, they continue to encounter other races. The Empire now encompasses over twenty septs, - fully developed Tau homeworlds. The populations of these worlds are fully integrated in to the empire, each striving towards the Greater Good.

There are at (least?) twenty Tau "septs" or homeworlds, with probably as many (if not several times more) colonial ones, plus all their member worlds.

Also, the region holding the Tau Empire is considered "dense yet small" and encompasses "hundreds" of Star systems. This suggests the Tau have yet to completely explore/occupy the region (sincec as noted before they don't seem to have more than a hundred or so worlds.)

Page 10

From the Council of the Highest, orders and edicts are issued across the region, orders that are followed without question, for the Ethereal caste members who issue them are revered by countless billions, and their wisdom is beyond doubt.

At least "billions" in the Empire, though the term "billions" is used to describe Imperial institutions and may not mean much. Also note that again we see the Tau obey "orders" unceasingly, again ihnting perhaps at some level of brainwashing/conditioning.

Page 10

As the Tau harbour an unquenchable confidence in their own manifest destiny, they are utterly determined that their own methods are the correct methods. As a consequence, they tend to seek out those qualtiies that best complement their own over those that run counter to them. Hence, the Tau do not neccesarily seek out aliens that exhibit a particular penchant for close combat for example, regarding them insted as savage and unsophisticated. They value aliens with broadly similar methods to themselves -

More on the Tau philosohpy and mindset. Note both that again, they seem to be quite fanatical, suggesting conditioning or manipulation, and that in practice they are much less "high minded" as some believe. (They can be just as biased/prejudicial as the Imperium, if only in different ways.)

Page 11

It was some time before the Water caste came to grasp the fact that the humans they had encountered were merly the forgotten outcasts of an incomprehensively vast galactic empire. So vast, in fact, that any overt aggression on the part of the Tau might lead to their fledgling empire's complete destruction.

Here we see the Tau (or at least their Water caste) actually DO know that the Imperium is so big or poweful enough to squash them like a bug were they so inclined. It is interesting to consider that the Tau at large seem unaware of this fact (A Fire Warrior, for example, exhibited disbelief at the populations of a Hive World Kage mentions in Kill Team.) This would suggest that the Tau engage in propoganda as heavily as the Imperium does, and for much the same reason.


Page 11

The Water caste were to align themselves with nearby dissident Human factions, and over the course of several decades of patient negotiations insinuate themselves into the courts of several dozen Imperial Commanders. The influence of the Tau spread further and more rapidly than any amount of military action could have taken it, until a swathe of worlds were trading with the Tau in preference to the Imperium's trade cartels.

The Water Caste seem to serve a subversive and intelligence function as well as diplomatic (and possibly trade), and the Tau shamelessly utilize the Caste's tactics in order to subvert and conquer worlds as much as they do the Fire Warriors, it would seem.

Also note the mention of "Trade CArtels" - which suggests multi-system companies (?) - probably trader families mentioned elswhere. But still an indication into the business/economic side of the Imperium.

Page 11

Upon a score of worlds, Water caste envoys whispered long rehearsed words into willing ears. The seeds of rebellion had long been cultivated, and now bore fruit as each Imperial Commander declared himself rid of the shackles of the Imperium's rule. In the ensuing power vacuum, the Tau expanded, claiming for themselves those worlds that came to be known as the Farsight Enclaves.

Again, the Water Caste serve spying and manipulation functions under the guise of diplomats.

The Tau seemed to "conquer" some twenty human worlds. Whether or not these are included in the 100 or so worldss they already own is not known.

Page 11

Surely, they reasoned, no matter its size, no power so fractured could ultimately stand before the manifest destiny of the Tau, and the Greater Good of their empire.

We once again witness the Tau perspective of the Imperium, and likely the Tau Propoganda Machine (and/or tau indoctrination?) at work.


Page 12

Tau battle tactics still derive from the discipline of the hunt and are based on effective coordination of the hunters and correct selection of the position from which to make the kill and the weapon with which it is to be made.

...

The Two most common forms of Hunter Cadre are the Mont'ka and the Kauyon.

...

They are both based on hunting techniques. Broadly speaking, there are two approaches to hunting: The first involves bringing the prey to the hunter, the second involves the hunter running the prey to ground; the former is Kauyon, the latter Mont'ka.

Elucidation (broadly) on Tau combat philosophies, and its origins.

Page 12

Roughly translated, Mont'ka is the Killing Blow. It is the art of identifying a target of opportunity and attacking it swiftly with a Hunter Cadre, often deployed from a Manta missile destroyer. A Cadre pursuing the Mont'ka may stand in readiness for several days awaiting the command to strike. During this time they will plan the exact movements they will perform when the call comes. Often the deicsion to strike will come from a Shas'el or Shas'o with a good view of the enemy or the input of a well-sited Pathfinder team.
..
The attack will be immediately called off if the prey remains resilient or evasive.

While in principle I think this sounds very good, I should note that this seems to make the assumption that the enemy will play into your hands and give you days/hours in which to plan/observe/prepare for the enemy, and does not sound like it allows much for sudden, unpredictable changes (or the possibility of the enemy launching a surprise.)

Age 12

In the Tau language the words for hunter and patience are deried from the same root. This technique is the oldest of the Tau technique and has the most variations. Essentially, the technique relies on the interaction of the hunter and the lure. In recent times, auxilliary troops such as Kroot are used as the lure, although some septs still regard the role as one that honours both hunter and prey and allow only bonded Fire Warrior teams to undertake it.

The lure's role is to expose itself to the prey and draw it into a position where it can be killed by the hunter. The more subtle commanders have been known to use the absence of troops as a lure. Once the prey is in position, the lure is free to escape or help the hunter as the situation dictates. Hunters are freuqently equipped with Crisis,Stealth, or Broadside armour with weapons carefully selected for the particular prey.

Again, in concept this sounds like a very good practice, although it seems to assume the enemy will FALL for it (which it may or may not... the Imperium for example can vary widley in its approach.) Someone with sensor capability, for example, might not be as easily fooled.

Page 12

Tau do not hold positions by choice. Defensively, the Earth Caste construct bunkers and fortifications to provide shetler from long range or aerial bombardment. Sometimes they construct a hidden bunker or Run'al to allow close observation of the enemy. Neither are intended for static defence.

The Fire caste are entirely committed to mobile warfare in which targets are idetnified, tracked and killed in an efficient and cautious manner. The Tau regard close combat as primitive and always plan their attacks around the application of firepower.

Tau cities are not fortified except under the direst circumstances and, wherever possible, they attempt to either draw enemy attacks away or slow the enemy advance while an evacuation is performed. Once a city is evacuated, the Tau will defend it just as they would a region of rocky ravines, and many variants of Kauyon are solely concerned with exploiting the peculiar layout of a ctiy.

On the rare occasions when the Tau are absolutely compelled ot defend a vital resource, they still apply their traditional techniques. In this case, the Mont'ka is applied as lightning fast forays out of the defences, each aimed at killing the enemy that pose the greatest threat. The Kauyon is represented by feigned retreat from the perimeter to draw the attacker into a well-prepared kill zone.

While mobility warfare as modern doctrine emphasizes is a GOOD thing, it seems like the Tau embrace this concept to the exclusion of all else. It seems to assume that the Tau will always have room to manuver, or not need any sort of fixed supply line or base or whatever. Which is silly, because what about manufacturing or resource extraction facilities? Do they abandon those as well? Sometimes you have no choice but to defend something.

City evacuation is another problem here - it assumes that the Tau have sufficient time and warning to effect their plans. What if the enemy attacks from orbit (as happens in the novel Kill Team?)

Caution and mobility and such are all good, but the Tau philsophy seems to take for granted that they'll always have the superior position and advantages from which to exploit it. And when it succeeds, they usually do. But it doesn't change the fact they seem to over-specialize. The thing about cities is especially goofy, because it seems to consider city "territory" to be utterly worthless. Even though cities provide food, shelter, and other neccecsities both for civilians as well as for warfighting.

By contrast, the Imperium seems alot more flexible (if not by choice) in incorporating all sorts of combat doctrines and styles. THey have mobility (Steel Legions, Narmenian & Pardus tanks, etc.) as well as "static" defenders (Valhallans, Krieg, etc.) and all of varying dispositions. This tends to give one more options in combat, than over-emphasize.



Page 13

On the offensive, Tau perfer not to attack cities by storm. Instead, they watch the main approaches and use the city as a lure to draw relief forces into ambushes. The Tau are good night fighters and when darkness falls they move into range of the defences and systematically destroy them.

When they absolutely must storm defences, ,the attack will be led by auxillairy troops such as the Kroot in a variation of the Kauyon. The assault troops are not used as pawns - the Tau way of war does not recognise the concept of expendable troops. Instead their safety is entrusted to the trroops providing the covering fire who must identify and kill enemy firebases before the asaulting force sufferes seriosu harm. The Kroot are frequently used as "stormers" because their natural fieldcraft skills allow them to make the best use of natural cover as they advance. There is a Mont'ka variant where precisely planned strikes are launched (often by Crisis teams) against a careful selection of targets which, when destroyed, compromise the entire defensive position. This technique is the hallmark of a master strategist and will rarely be sanctioned otherwise.

More on Tau combat philosophy, this time on offense.

Page 13

Tau battle plans are very complex as each Hunter Cadre is assigned specific targets, locations, and times. Teams are briefed at length beforehand and simulations are widely employed. The Tau may start a battle with elaborate flowing attacks, each launched with perfect planning, but sooner or later their prepared scenarios cease to apply and they lose momentum. When this occurs, they will disengage and plan anew.

Caution and complexity seem to be rather iffy things to rely upon in battle, since so many things can go wrong (or at least not go as well as you'd hope). - the Tau don't seem to grasp the KISS principle by this. Perfect planning is also good, as is extensive briefing san dsimualtions, ,but this also assumes you have time and opportunity to employ them. In fact, the latter part of this quote seems to recognize that, since without their "prepared scenarios" they seem to lose their fighting capability (and thus withdraw). This hints at some lack of flexibility or creativity, as well as another potential flaw in their fighting doctrine

It is important to note that the Tau regard territorial gain as militarily irrelevant compared ot the destruction of the enemy forces. Ground is for position from which to make the kill; once the kill is made, the ground is for the taking. A Tau army will gladly retreat from a strong enemy attack to preserve Tau lives while it awaits its opportunity to strike back decisvely.

...

Unlike the Imperium of Man, the Tau empire cannot draw on limitless manpower, so the strategy of attrition is unknown to them.

Tau caution and careful planning (as well as mobility and whatnot) seem to be based on the fact they cannot easily sacrifice their troops due to fewer numbers. This is understandable and logical from many points, but its also a disadvantage in other ways, as it seems to suggest that their sensitivity to casualities can be used against them (to halt attacks or invasions, for example. And, while Ground isn't ALL important, it can have its advantages (again, you need places to build and stockpile all the supplies and ammo and resoureces to conduct wars.. and that requires ground of some kind.)

And of course, cities are "ground" - and that ground is full of civilians, and the things they need to live and survive. It makes no sense to indefinitely abaondon it, because it deprives you of crucial assets as well as impoverishes them (being alive is no good if you can't feed yourself or find shelter.) And there's always the cost of rebuilding. Of course, the Tau concept of the "Greater Good" probably means this makes sense to them, even if it doesn't to us.

[NecronLord]

A lot of interesting ideas on how to defeat the Tau there. I'd never actually looked through that stuff with much attention before - their doctrine is rather fragile, and founded upon their having all the luck, isn't it?

Which seems quite appropriate for a race that indoctrinated.

[Zablorg]

EMP grenades briefly emit an electro-magnetic pulse which overlaods circuitry, causes fires, meltdowns and other critical malfunctions.

I looked it up and found that EMP grenades are fairly weak. This would suggest that the process of hardening systems against EM pulses has been lost to time.

Keep it up, by the way. This is very interesting.

[Cykeisme]

Whereas it once took centuries for human spacecraft to travel to Sol's closest neighboruing star, the same distance could suddenly be covered in just a few hours.

Hmm, the specific comparison used in the reference seems to indicate that they're referring very early applications of warp travel that were used on mankind's first interstellar voyage.

Ah, reading my old post, I've felt the need for a late, late ghetto edit.

It appears that the reference refers to the very first interstellar voyage ("..could suddenly be covered.."); at this time, there were not yet any Navigators.

This is a tenous association, but it may be an indication of Tau navigator-less warp travel speeds as well.

[Connor MacLeod]

A lot of interesting ideas on how to defeat the Tau there. I'd never actually looked through that stuff with much attention before - their doctrine is rather fragile, and founded upon their having all the luck, isn't it?

Which seems quite appropriate for a race that indoctrinated.

Thanks, but I'm thinking it mght deserve further explanation, possibly with examples. I know of a few (in universe or IrL) to show the limitations of their doctrine. Its not ALL Bad, but its what Iw ould call "over-specializeD" - in the way that the FEderation seems to overspecialize, and that can have definite drawbacks.

I think I may also do a compare/contrast with the Imperium as well, just to help illustrate the variability/flexibility aspect.

[Peptuck]

Regarding Tau warp drive mechanics, I'm pretty sure the Tau BFG rules go into some detail describing how their drives operate. I'll dig it up in the morning if you want.

[Cykeisme]

Regarding Tau warp drive mechanics, I'm pretty sure the Tau BFG rules go into some detail describing how their drives operate. I'll dig it up in the morning if you want.

I've read the bit about them attempting to immerse their ships in the warp, then travelling FTL when they get thrown back out.

Hmm, did early human ships travel in this way?
Or, were the warp-souls even of normal, pre-psyker humans still effective enough to keep ships in the warp?
I believe it has been stated that the Tau have much less a presence in the warp than even normal humans, this may explain it.

[Imperial Overlord]

Or, were the warp-souls even of normal, pre-psyker humans still effective enough to keep ships in the warp?
I believe it has been stated that the Tau have much less a presence in the warp than even normal humans, this may explain it.

Souls have nothing to do with how ships enter the warp. Empty desolate space hulks, for another example, enter the warp just fine. The tau warp drive is reverse engineered from a crashed alien ship in comparatively recent times. Warp travel is still a developing technology for the tau who are newcomers to this whole interstellar empire business. Keep in mind that their colonies are all very young and the entire Tau Empire has a smaller population than the hive world of Necromundia.

[Cykeisme]

Ah, okay then.

You mentioned Tau warp drives are a relatively recent innovation.. is that why Tau ships expelled from the Warp? Their drives don't work right?

[Imperial Overlord]

Ah, okay then.

You mentioned Tau warp drives are a relatively recent innovation.. is that why Tau ships expelled from the Warp? Their drives don't work right?

The alien drive required a psyker to guide the ship fully into the warp (human drives have no such requirement). As the tau have no psykers, the best they can manage is a partial transition. If the Tau aren't eaten by the 'Nids, conquered by the Orks, or crushed by the Imperium they will probably be able to develop full warp drives sooner or later.

[Cykeisme]

Hmm, a drive that requires a psyker to run.. IIRC the wreck was supposed to be an Eldar craft, was it? Or perhaps simply some minor or extinct race.

Anyway, does that mean that at present, Tau FTL travel is inferior to humanity's very first warp-capable ships?
And even if they do get drives capable of full warp immersion, they don't have Navigators..

[Imperial Overlord]

Hmm, a drive that requires a psyker to run.. IIRC the wreck was supposed to be an Eldar craft, was it? Or perhaps simply some minor or extinct race.

Unlikely to be eldar as their ships travel the webway, the superhighway they built through the warp. Probably that of a minor species, of which there are many in 40K. Hell, the tau have several subject- I mean member species which contribute to the Greater Good.

Anyway, does that mean that at present, Tau FTL travel is inferior to humanity's very first warp-capable ships?

Yes, their FTL is inferior. It's not much of an issue because their empire is tiny.