How do Trekkies envision the defeat of the Empire?

[AirshipFanboy]

How do the people who take Star Trek's side in this debate envision the Federation defeating the Empire? What do they think a war between the Federation and the Empire would look like?

[Wyrm]

Old-time trekkies no doubt imagined a great mano y mano slug-fest between equal-sized fleets where the Federation fleet would eventually win. (I know I did, before I reached the Age of Reason.)

Now, I imagine that they wank to images of genesis devices raining down on Coruscant like the bukkake orgy it is, and turbolasers bouncing off the Defiant's navigational shields while the cloaked ship pulse-phasors an Executor-class to death. Then a photon torpedo dives down the DS II's exhaust port and blows the station to kingdom come, while the whole Imperial fleet putters about at 1.5 c.

Y'know, something as ridiculous as Revelations.

[Teleros]

Hmm, we got any rabid trekkies left here to answer this ?

[NecronLord]

Using the most reasonable effort; I expect they imagine Imperial withdrawl after the Romulans or someone demonstrate their willingness to deploy some of ST's more outrageous pocket handweapons in terrorist strikes, making it more trouble than it's worth to stay.

Yes, that's not exactly easy, but it's at least more sane than beatings in standup fights.

[lord Martiya]

Well, the ones on the battle remember to me Ratman, an Italian demential parody comic of Batman and every character that the author chose: the insanity is on the same level.
But when Ratman is outsmarted from his teddy bear I know that the author maked it for fun, when a Trekkie say that things...

[Darth Ruinus]

The Empire is on the defensive, the massive fleet of Fed ships are everywhere.

The Empire is helpless to defend against the Fed ships that are zipping around at c, and are fucked then the Feds decide to use their super fast Warp Drive.

Entire armies of Stormtroopers, AT-STs, AT-ATs, tanks and artillery are wiped out by a Fed ship simply flying over a planet and vaporizing all of them in one shot, on wide beam setting of course.

In space, the Empire fares far worse, as their shields can barely defend against phasers, their turbolaser bolts simply bounce of the navigational shields of enemy ships, and are completely helpless to defend against the tactic of using tranporters to transport the entire crew out into space, or transport a Genesis torpedo into the ISD.

Even worse is the fact that once the Empire loses a world (every lost world is a massive hit to their economy, since they only control one quadrant of the galaxy) the Feds simply Genesis torp the bombed out world, set up massive replicator ships and starbases, and watch the Defiant and Galaxy class ships roll out by the thousands.

Then, the Feds enlist Q, and he snaps his fingers and there goes the Emperor, Vader, and anyone who may stand in their way.

The Feds, in goodwill, sign a treaty with the Empire, helping advance their tech, and teaching them how to hold hands and live in peacefull communism.

Or something like that.

[DarthShady]

Then, the Feds enlist Q, and he snaps his fingers and there goes the Emperor, Vader, and anyone who may stand in their way.

The Feds, in goodwill, sign a treaty with the Empire, helping advance their tech, and teaching them how to hold hands and live in peacefull communism.

Or something like that.

And then,somewhere on a ruined planet the trekie wakes up and sees a sky filled with hundreds of Star Destroyers.
He then realizes it was all a dream.

[Lord Revan]

well if you're masochitic there's the review of "the portal", that's what rabid trekkies would think would at it's worst, but be warned once you've seen it you can't unsee it.

[Aratech]

well if you're masochitic there's the review of "the portal", that's what rabid trekkies would think would at it's worst, but be warned once you've seen it you can't unsee it.

Not exactly true. I was able to bludgeon myself into a state of forgetfulness. However, I only made it past the first page.

[Lord Revan]

well if you're masochitic there's the review of "the portal", that's what rabid trekkies would think would at it's worst, but be warned once you've seen it you can't unsee it.

Not exactly true. I was able to bludgeon myself into a state of forgetfulness. However, I only made it past the first page.

lucky you, though I can tell you it only gets worse (a federation shuttle is able withstand a shot from the Deathstars main weapon (and I'm not joking about that)) here's a link "disection made by Tribun (be warned)

[AirshipFanboy]

I will read "Portal" now. I doubt it will make my head explode.

If it does, well, I mostly lurk here, so you probably won't notice anyway.

[Ender]

It is funny, because the idea of how it would go down shifted withthe scale in power. The classic idea, back when the STTM was treated as valid and low GTs were the heaviest TLs with most shots being MT, was that the fleet battles would be a giant vs flies scenario - what the giant hits, it kills, but the flies dodge most of it and have to be clipped several times to go down. The general assumption was that the Empire would invade, Rebellion team up with Feds, a retreating holding action that capped with a fleet battle that the Emperor's arrogance brought him out into the open, and a combined rbel/trek team killed him. Rather then a period of warlordism and such after that, it was assumped that the Empire just poof vanished, the Rebellion became the new government, and they petitioned to join the Federation out of thankfullness and because the enlightened Federation was just so awesome. Variations on this were the borg took on and kicked the empire's ass only to be stopped by the plucky federation types, the dominion gets swapped in for the borg, or various trek baddies got their comeuppance.


Once people started to understand what exactly "galactic" and "stellar range" ment we stared getting the more absurd and wankish scenarios.

In a way I miss the old days.

[Darth Wong]

How do the people who take Star Trek's side in this debate envision the Federation defeating the Empire?

With their eyes closed, laying in their beds alone.

[Darth Servo]

Not quite the "defeat of the Empire" scenario, but Mike sums up Trekkie 'tactics' pretty well here

[FedRebel]

How do the people who take Star Trek's side in this debate envision the Federation defeating the Empire? What do they think a war between the Federation and the Empire would look like?

It'd depend on the Trekkie in question

1. All sides are equal and Trek wins via superior skill and intelligence. Said war would plat out like WW2 with the Empire being the Germans and Trek being the allies

2. Trek is insanely superior and wins via massive fire power and weight of numbers. The war is short and Trek easily obliterates the Empire with minimal effort

3. Trek wins due to tech advantage and a Bond villain's wet dream worth of gadgets. The war is short due to Trek possessing superior technology, however in addition Trek now fully employs 8472 planet crackers, Xindi superweapons, Genesis devices, thaloran radiation weapons, trilithium weapons, etc.

[Darth Servo]

How do the people who take Star Trek's side in this debate envision the Federation defeating the Empire? What do they think a war between the Federation and the Empire would look like?

It'd depend on the Trekkie in question

You forgot "steal and reverse engineer Imperial tech near instantly".

[Covenant]

Once people started to understand what exactly "galactic" and "stellar range" ment we stared getting the more absurd and wankish scenarios.

In a way I miss the old days.

Yeah. Even those of us who thought Star Wars had a serious advantage in firepower were once very young, and when you're a kid you don't really have a good idea of the amount of physical energy it takes to blast apart even an asteroid--and when I was a kid, I had never even heard of the EU whatsoever, so I'd never been exposed to ISDs that moved more than a sluggish pace (as I interperted from that scene where two nearly ran into each other)... there was a lot of Star Trek on, and it seemed impressive enough, compared to the things they fought.

Until you get old enough to start looking at numbers and generating some comparisons, or even more importantly, to comprehend what those mean (so that you can even just read the notes of other people who already did the math) you're stuck in this land of the subjective.

I'm not sure how people consistantly side on Trek's military though, that just seems willfully stupid and a kind of contrarian response to rude Warsies. I don't think it's really that suprising that so many of the people who get really, really into teh Trek side of the arguement take such exception to the varity of debate used. Honestly, I've never quite understood it. They're just fictional Empires that do not have any relationship with each other, why can't they just enjoy their Trek without needing to make such a fuss about it being a lower-power force? It's not like you see Dr. Who vs Star Wars or Warhammer 40k vs Star Trek sites and message boards with this degree of vitrol.

[Peptuck]

How do the people who take Star Trek's side in this debate envision the Federation defeating the Empire? What do they think a war between the Federation and the Empire would look like?

It'd depend on the Trekkie in question

You forgot "steal and reverse engineer Imperial tech near instantly".

Why would they? I mean, Trek's technology is so superior, they would probably laugh at primative Wars technology, especially the pitifully slow hyperdrive.

[ray245]

How about the empire having a hard time occupying some of trek areas?

[DarthShady]

well if you're masochitic there's the review of "the portal", that's what rabid trekkies would think would at it's worst, but be warned once you've seen it you can't unsee it.

Why?Oh Why did i read it?I feel my mind just overdosed on stupidity,and i haven't even read the entire first chapter.
Navigational deflector,lasers,fusion reactor... What the Fuck???

[Lord Revan]

well if you're masochitic there's the review of "the portal", that's what rabid trekkies would think would at it's worst, but be warned once you've seen it you can't unsee it.

Why?Oh Why did i read it?I feel my mind just overdosed on stupidity,and i haven't even read the entire first chapter.
Navigational deflector,lasers,fusion reactor... What the Fuck???

you were warned though and the thing is that once you get past the trek wank it isn't really an intresting story at all as there's no drama, true plot or characters.

it's not a story it's a bad vs. "argument" disguised poorly as a story

[DarthShady]

you were warned though and the thing is that once you get past the trek wank it isn't really an intresting story at all as there's no drama, true plot or characters.

it's not a story it's a bad vs. "argument" disguised poorly as a story

It isn't an interesting story at all,the guy has the writing talent of S.Baldrick.
I wont even bother reading it further,as i am afraid it might cause brain damage.

[Lord Poe]

In a way I miss the old days.

In the old days, when the Wars side presented the numbers, Trekkies like Lord Edam would sing, "So-reee, not backed up in any of your books!"

Then, when the AOTC:ICS came out, Trekkies were like, FUCK! Well, time to discredit the EU!

[Darth Wong]

The old days and the present were not that much different. In both cases, you had real military people and science people on the SW side, and a bunch of kiddie posers on the ST side.

[Sidewinder]

If Trekkies were actually in command of a Starfleet vessel, they'd probably do something like this:

"Plot the fastest course to the lunar orbit! We'll lose the monster there!" Mary Sue ordered.

"But that leads us in front of the superlaser's line of fire!" the engineer noted.

"The Death Star's superlaser represents weapons technology so obsolete, it must be mounted on a battle station the size of a small moon to be effective! Lasers won't even penetrate our navigational deflectors!" shields to deflect space debris, asteroids, and other objects that may collide with the ship. Boom! "Plot the course!" Mary Sue ordered as a 280 mm shell detonated against the stardrive.

"Yes, Matron!" The engineer obeyed, launching the ship towards the Moon.

They'd probably assume a Starfleet vessel's shields are immune to the "lasers" used in the 'Star Wars' universe, but:

Unfortunately for the Trekkies, Mary Sue's declaration was made in "The Outrageous Okona," an episode of 'Star Trek: The Next Generation'. She neglected the fact that it referred to warships too small and obsolete to threaten a Galaxy class starship like the Enterprise-D. Energy shields, powerful enough to withstand bombardments that could otherwise melt planetary surfaces into molten slag, were used in the 'Star Wars' universe. The Death Star's superlaser was designed to pierce these shields and destroy the planets they protected; it was certainly powerful enough to destroy the Free Love, as the Vader proved when he ordered, "Fire."

The superlaser beam vaporized the Free Love; witnesses were confused when they mistook microscopic metal particles burning in the atmosphere, the ship's remains, for an aurora borealis.

That's the likely result of any battle between Imperial and Federation forces.