40K misc numbers and analysis thread

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40K misc numbers and analysis thread

Post by Connor MacLeod » 2007-06-22 05:07am

Yes folks, I'm starting another little thread/essay in a long seres. This one will be for all the misc stuff I've uncovered but never knew where the fuck to put it. Alot of it will be mainly fluff from the RPG sources, but it will also be in some cases wher enovels are used.

I plan to cover (so far)

- Misc technical tidbits of capbilities from The Imperium, specifically the Guard (vehicle capabilities, informational capabilities, etc.)

- misc weapons data (lasgun scopes, lasgun types, etc.)

- misc capability calcs (bolters mainly, but this wo't be a calc so much as"I saw it on mythbusters" referenes.)

- Warp speeds (highly variable)

- armour types/construction/possible qualiteis

- Vehicle and equipment data

- "projectile" weapon capital ship calcs. This will encompass mainly bombardment cannon, ,nova cannon, and macrocannon/railguns.

- various and sundry "lay waste to city/contient" bits from BFG


- Torpedo and warhead/ordnance calcs. Again mostly odler stuff, but still interesting.

- Whatever the hell I feel like adding.

Compared to the other essays/thread sI've done, this one will probably be alot less on paragraphs of numbers and analysis and more like my novel analysis threads (bits and pieces quoted here and there.) It probably will also be more jumbled and less coherent, but I'll try to kepe that to a minimum.

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Post by Connor MacLeod » 2007-06-22 05:46am

For the moment (and because I'm lazY) I'm just going to put up warp speed calcs. Because I have that most conveniently sitting around and reasonably well organized. There are other calcs elsewhere of course, and knowing me I'll find many others, but what the hell.
Rogue Trader: Slaves ot Darkness wrote: The warp is also an important factor in the surivvla of the human race. spacecraft, capable of voyaging thousands of light years in a matter of days, travel across the warp.
This ranges from manyy tens (high tens) of thousands of c to hundreds of thousands times c. At the upper limit it could be itnerpreteted (literally) to reach nearly 2 million c. Like the ADeptus Titanicus statement, we could consider this closer to "ideal" warp speed rather than "standard".

adeptus titanicus wrote: By doing so [warp drive], a spacecraft can move hundreds of thousands of light years in only a few hours.

It goes without saying this easily outstrips any other calc this is comparable (olr better) to Star wars hyperdrive speeds - many millions, tens of millions, hundreds of millions, or even billions of times c. In terms of performance, its not exactly impossible given the varaible nature of the warp, but I'm not going to count on it save under the most favorable circumstances (it could tell us how fast Imperium ships would go absent the usual chaos of the Warp.)


IG codex 2nd ed, Page 6 wrote: Ten thousand light years can be traversed within 10-40 days by warp-capable spacecraft. By the time ships have been moved into position, munitions collected and troops assembled, the response time over this distance is in the order of between 30 and 120 days, typically about 75 days. This is the standard repsonse time for the raising of Imperial Guard armies, though for prolonged conlficts troops may be brought in from much further away.
10,000 light years in 10-40 days works out to between 365,000c and ~91,000c. This is higher taan later figures, but still possible as the Warp's nature its possible some areas or routes (there ARE warp routes for commerical traffic IIRC) that allow those speeds, it need not be fixed.
3rd edition rulebook, page 98 wrote: The Imperium itself is inconceivably vast, ,spanning many thousands of light years that require months, even years of travel to traverse it.
The calcs here depend entirely on your interpretation of the quote. Taken litearlly it refers to thousands of ligth years taking months/years to travel it can work out to up to a few tens of thousandss times c, but mainly low thousands (or hundreds, depending on how you take "years" and how many "thousands" of light years.)

The other interpretation is that it takes "months/years" to span the Imperium as a whole ("thousands" in this context means "tens of thousands.") this can mean tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands times c.
3rd ed. rulebook, page 99 wrote: A journey that may take centuries in real space can be traversed in a matter of weeks in the warp.
"centuries" implies hundreds of light years. A "matter of weeks" implies 2-3 weeks, implying a velocity of around ~3500c to ~25,000c, fitting the "thousands to tens of thousands of c" figure.
Last edited by Connor MacLeod on 2007-07-05 01:47am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by Ford Prefect » 2007-06-22 06:34am

Ah, warp travel. It speaks well of a technology when any of those are actually possible (and there are those references trips being done in negative time, but that's rare). In your opinion, what would be the most likely average speed?
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Post by Stormbringer » 2007-06-22 02:27pm

In terms of performance, its not exactly impossible given the varaible nature of the warp, but I'm not going to count on it save under the most favorable circumstances (it could tell us how fast Imperium ships would go absent the usual chaos of the Warp.)

Connor, you may want to revise that assumption. There are actually warp currents and effects that have a positive effect. They're mentioned in an offhand way in Traitor's Hand and the Medusa V campaign centered around a world which had favorable warp currents (something Rapidity). So it's more likely that it's not a calm warp that accounts for it but the warp-space equivalent of "fair wind and following seas."

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Post by Connor MacLeod » 2007-06-28 03:37am

Stormbringer wrote:
In terms of performance, its not exactly impossible given the varaible nature of the warp, but I'm not going to count on it save under the most favorable circumstances (it could tell us how fast Imperium ships would go absent the usual chaos of the Warp.)

Connor, you may want to revise that assumption. There are actually warp currents and effects that have a positive effect. They're mentioned in an offhand way in Traitor's Hand and the Medusa V campaign centered around a world which had favorable warp currents (something Rapidity). So it's more likely that it's not a calm warp that accounts for it but the warp-space equivalent of "fair wind and following seas."
I'm aware of this, but I would again tend to classify that as counting under "favorable conditions" - ie things that would tend to improve the Imperium's ability to travel through the warp. AS it is I'm already tending to rule the "hundreds of thousands times c" velocites under such conditions (IE the 10,000 LY in 10-40 days" figure.) the "hundreds of thousands of LY/few hours" thing is WAY WAY beyond even that.. its effectively an outlier as far as the calcs are concerned.

On the other hand, if you've got more evidence you could bring to hand to suggest its not nearly as much of an outlier as it seems, or that these currents DO allow such massive speeds, I'm willing to listen. (I don't recall Traitor's Hand mentioning them.)

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Post by Connor MacLeod » 2007-06-28 03:39am

IG codex 4th, page 62 wrote:
IG terms:

Chart table/chart desk - small, porrtable easel-like device for displaying tactical hololithic maps and three-dimensional terrain models. A chart desk is a heavier and usually non portable version.

codifier/cogitator/logic-engine - device empowered by the Machine Spirit to perform complex calculations and battlefield metriculations.

Dataslate - hand-held devicee used to store and transfer information, imagery, and orders.

Magnoculars - powerful optical device for the magnification of distant objects. Can be modified to varying levels of complexity, with range-finders, azimuth metriculators, and heat-sensing equipment.

Micro-bead - (also micro-bead link, micro-bead intercom) small, short range vox system for inter-trooper communications on the field. Usually a small ear-plug with a tiny wire mouth-stalk. Generally only found on regiments from civilised or industrial worlds.

Pict - a video feed equivalent of vox

Resuscitrex - officio medicae device incorporating a number of specialised devicecs, most frfequently used fo fibrillate patients who have suffered cardiac arrest.

Scope - general term for powered spotter sights: may be the telescopic sights on a long las, or a hand-held "telescope" used by an officer.

Sweeper/sweeper set/sweeper broom - man-porrtable mine detector

Vox-caster - a powerful, usually backpack-carried communications gear. A "vox set"
Random/interesting technical tidbits from the (4th edition?) Guard Codex. Not quite up to 2nd edition standards of sophistication, but they have sensor gear, computers, and heavily integrrated communications (and even mechanical medical machinery.) Not very "Napoleonic" as far as I'm concerned.
Chapter Approved, 2003, page 45 wrote:
"They had barely got within 500 paces when a horde of fanged and clawed Hormagaunts leaped from the building's upper windows and bounded at them. The Guardsmen obeyed their training and Seargent clay's terse orders = firing short controlled bursts form their lasguns as the Hormaguants closed.
500 paces, depending on how you define a pace, can be around 400 to 750 meters, implying an effective range for lasguns comaprable to or somehat greater than modern assault rifles. (This isn't exactly a "marskman" type posture either, but rather standing range.

And while it is agianst Hormagaunts (and tyranid leaping/running is insanely fast.) I cannot possibly see them failign to notice Tyranids charging them and taking longer than a few seconds to turn and open fire.

3rd edition rules, page 61 wrote: MAny lasguns and pistols include solar converters for recharging powerpacks and various optic sights as standard, such as iron sights, mono-sights, or infra-red sights.
Description of the potential (non targeter) scopes available to Guard lasguns. The exact types are described below.
Necromunda rulebook, 2nd edition, ,page 62 wrote: A mono-sight is an optical sensor worn over one eye, attached to the fighter's weapon by a power link. The fighter sees an enhanced image and superimposed targeting reticule with its crosshairs clearly showing where his shot will land. The high resoluation of the image makes this sight only useful from a stable platform. It is of no advantage to a shooter who is moving.

An Infra-red sight is similar in construction to a mono-sight but is calibrated to register infra-red rather than visible light. The enhanced image which appears in the sight makes it very easy to pick out targets that are parttially concealed behind cover. Like a mono-sight, the infra-red sights work most effectively from a stable platform, and is of no advantage to a shooter whose own movement disrupts the sensor's image.
Obviously, Infra and mono sights are more than simple crosshair scopes or powered scopes. And tageters are still yet more sophsiitcated.....

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Post by Shadowtraveler » 2007-06-28 03:57am

Stormbringer wrote:Connor, you may want to revise that assumption. There are actually warp currents and effects that have a positive effect. They're mentioned in an offhand way in Traitor's Hand and the Medusa V campaign centered around a world which had favorable warp currents (something Rapidity). So it's more likely that it's not a calm warp that accounts for it but the warp-space equivalent of "fair wind and following seas."
[/quote]Van Grothe. And I believe Farseer has a navigator looking through astrological maps detailing warp currents and the like.

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Post by Connor MacLeod » 2007-06-28 04:02am

Rogue Trader warp-related quotes:

page 131
A warp drive, or warp engine, is a devicee that enables a spacecraft to enter and leave the medium of warp space. Warp drives incorporate their own navigational units, able to briefly glimpse into warp space in order ot observe its current movements. From these movement sit is possible to calculate a course, any corrective manouvers that may have to be made whilst in warp spae, and the moment to return to real space. The distance travelled in this way is called a "jump", and a jump may be of 1 to 4 light years depending on the doncitions prevalent in warp space. Such a journey typically takes between 1 and 6 days of real space time, contracted into 1-4 hours of perceived time for the spacecraft. A spacecraft plunged into warp sapcec at random will travle at 1-4 light years per hour of perceived time/36 hours of real space time. Whilst in warp space a craft is isolated from real space. However, psychics are able to maintain or establish a telepathic contact if they are sufficiently strong, if they are human astropaths for example.

it is dangerous for spacecraft to leave warpspace close ot the proximity of stars. THe mass of a solar body possesses a comparable mass in warp space, and acts as an irresistible attractive force to bodies near it. This makes it almost impossible to leave or re-enter normal space within a solar system withotu being drawn inside the sun itself. Even with the utmost care, occasional accidents do happen, and this is one of the constant dangers of warp travel. The usual practice is to aim on breaking warp space well outside a solar system and complete a journey using conventional space drives.
It is possible for a Warp-capable vessel to travel without a navigator, though they can only cover a few light years (rather than hundreds or thousands or tens of thousands in exceptional cases) at a time, greatly slowing their navigational abilities (this ability was carried over from Space Fleet and into BFG as well.) This speed works out to between 250c and just under 1,000c. So not only are the distancecs covered per "jump" shorter, but the effecitve speeds seem to be as well.

Warp vessels cannot scan into realspace (or a ship in realspace into warp) save through some sort of pyschic means (like astropaths.) There may be sensors that emulate astropathic abilities, however (or maybe are just astropaths made into servitors.)

Also note of the dangers of jumping into the warp while inside a system. The major "important" relevancec is that it might provide a potential explanation for known/implied FTL sensors in the imperium - evidently even inert matter can have SOME imprint on the warp - it may be possible for warp-based passive sensors to "read" these patterns. (or they may be some mechanical version of psychic phenomena, or some such.)
A warp gate is a point in real space which is linked to another point in real space by a tunnel through warp space. The tunnel somehow avoids the normal disturbances of warp space, allowing a journey to be made within a fixed time and in perfect safety. The existence of warp gates represents something of a mystery; are they a natural feature, or artificial?"

...

Other warp gates are mere black holes in space.
Description of a warp gate. Further summary the rest of the info: Some are artificial, they can vary in different sizes, can occur in deep space, within solar systems or on planets Gates are rare, respond to certain electrical/psychic/other signals to potect them. Some are defective, hard to navigate, and are quite slow and predetermined routes.

RT defines the speed as being 2-12 days for distances of up to 4 LY for a speed of around 120c to 730c. Not exactly speedy, and I'm betting the Webway this turned into probably became much MUCH faster.

Really it sounds like the Eldar Webway in its earlier incarnations, though some games (Battle fleet gothic) and novels have made extensive use of "warp portals/gates"

The concept aside from the webway may be used in other sources (Soul Drinkers implies warp gates/portals were used by humanity for merchant traffic, as does I believe the novel "Kill Team" with regard ot the tau.)

A warp portal is simply an entrance into, and exit from, warp space. It does not lead to a tunnel, and a spacecraft entering a portal is cast to the chance currents of warp space. with careful manouvering it may be possible to reenter normal space using the same portal from the other side.
Again, like Gates, portals aren't understood (ie are they natural or artificial) and other races do use them for navigational purposes. As I mentioned before, this is a concept that has been reused in a number of novels (by the tau and Imperium both.) and was also brought up in Battlefleet Gothic's core rules.

<<<>>>

Page 132
Storms are constantly forming and dying down, at any time at least 10% of the galaxy's solar systems will be inacessible beacuse of storms. Half of these systems are cut of ffor less than a year, but many remain isolated for many years or even centuries. Indeed, some systems have always been isolated, and show no sign of becoming otherwise.
Warp storms isolate 10% of the galaxy at any one time... half those storms (5% of the galaxy) last less than a year, the other 5% being more unpredictable/variable.
Unlike the closely packed empires of other races, the Imperium is flung wide across the entire galaxy, its worlds are often hundreds if not thousands of light years distant.
this implies an average distance between Imperium worlds of around hundreds or thousands of years. This DOES work out (1 million sysems and the volume of space the Imperium probably occupies in the Astnroomicon compared as a ratio) so its probably not been retconned. If timeframes an be provided (IE from Eisenhorn or other novels) for warp travel, ,speeds probably can be estimated (in most cases, weeks or months are the average/likely travel times between planets, so its safe to venture that most are in the thousands/tens of thousands of c range.)
Under the intuitive guidance of the navigator, a ship is able to traverse distances of tens of thousands of light years in a single jump. Perceived journey time is 1-4 days per thousands of light years, equivalent to 1-6 months of real time. Even so, a journey from one edge of the galaxy to the other would take between 85 and 510 months of real time.
"thousands" of light years in 1-6 months - implying average travel speeds of between 4,000c and 120,000c. Crossing the "galaxy" (~90,000 LY as per Rogue Trader) yields speeds of 2,000c and 12,000c average (probalby a bit consevative, since it assumes a perfectly straight line and no "stops" needed in between transit.) Nonetheless, this does uphold the "thousands/tens of thousands of c "average" velociy.
As only psychic signals penetrate both real and warp space, this signal has to be a psychic one. Some psychics are capable of broadcasting a short range signal of thsi type (10 light yearS) but the principle signal is centreed upon Earth and is called the Astronomion
the Astronomicon range is mentioned to be 50,000 light years (30,000 light year radius at least.), with the galaxy being about 85,000 LY in diameter.

There is probably also (I recall reading somewherE) a network of astropathic bases used to transmit these 10-ly radius beacons for ships, so they offer a second (redundant) means of navigatting when the astronomicon is unavialble (probably alot faster than the ship doing its own navigating mechanically, too.)

Incidentlaly such "beacons" would probably require tens of millions of astropaths to cover the entire Imperium.

Page 147
However, over 90% of the psykers in Imperial services are members of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica, known commonly as astropaths.
90% of the Imperium's psykers are astropaths - the other 10% are probably battle psykers in the Guard, Librarians, and psychic Inquisitors. I doubt this inclues the sacrifices (but it may very well do so.) This also tends to imply the Imperium has many millions of very very strong psykers (stronger than astropaths.)

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Post by Stormbringer » 2007-06-28 04:39pm

Connor MacLeod wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:Connor, you may want to revise that assumption. There are actually warp currents and effects that have a positive effect. They're mentioned in an offhand way in Traitor's Hand and the Medusa V campaign centered around a world which had favorable warp currents (something Rapidity). So it's more likely that it's not a calm warp that accounts for it but the warp-space equivalent of "fair wind and following seas."
I'm aware of this, but I would again tend to classify that as counting under "favorable conditions" - ie things that would tend to improve the Imperium's ability to travel through the warp. AS it is I'm already tending to rule the "hundreds of thousands times c" velocites under such conditions (IE the 10,000 LY in 10-40 days" figure.) the "hundreds of thousands of LY/few hours" thing is WAY WAY beyond even that.. its effectively an outlier as far as the calcs are concerned.

On the other hand, if you've got more evidence you could bring to hand to suggest its not nearly as much of an outlier as it seems, or that these currents DO allow such massive speeds, I'm willing to listen. (I don't recall Traitor's Hand mentioning them.)
I think you've misunderstood what I was trying to say. I certainly think they're outliers but I don't think that Imperial ships could ever match them with out help from warp currents.
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Post by NecronLord » 2007-06-28 05:40pm

This extreme speed outlier possibly reffers to records set during the Great Crusade. According to the HH art book, the original Astronomicon could be used by the Emperor to focus on a specific ship (or presumably force) and clear its route completely, allowing it to cross the galaxy in a matter of days or hours.

Warp Portals aren't the same as the webway. In the same book, the Emperor built one artificially, under the Palace, to serve as an access route to the Web proper. Other examples of actual portals can be found in the 'pictures' section of Codex Demonhunters, and more obscure sources.
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Post by Connor MacLeod » 2007-07-03 05:43am

Stormbringer wrote: I think you've misunderstood what I was trying to say. I certainly think they're outliers but I don't think that Imperial ships could ever match them with out help from warp currents.
Well in a sense that's possible too (its still covered under what I said though) but its not neccesarily the only way. Think about it . Warp is for the most part a more insane version of B5 hyperspace (with things that will eat or possess you as well as the fact time is FUBAR in there.)

The Currents nad turbulencec is one fo the major factors contributing to the problems in navigating the warp or warp speed. Currents not only will slow you down (just as some currents can in theory speed you up) by the direct application of force and/or resistance, but currents can also prevent a ship from navigating in a straight line (needing to take more convoluted routes, getting knocked off course, etc.)

a rather "peaceful" warp lacks all those problems. Absnt that, the prime determinant factor in warp "speed" will be your acceleration - in theory all ships have the same top "speed" (near-c) and so they should have the same top potential warp speed. Acceleration will affect how quickly they can reach it (over a given timeframe.) As I said, ,Warp currents can help there, but they're unpredictable and you still face the deterimental affects of turbulencec as well.

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Post by Connor MacLeod » 2007-07-03 05:44am

NecronLord wrote: Warp Portals aren't the same as the webway. In the same book, the Emperor built one artificially, under the Palace, to serve as an access route to the Web proper. Other examples of actual portals can be found in the 'pictures' section of Codex Demonhunters, and more obscure sources.
I was thinking of warp gates, but looking at the third edition codex, yeah they aren't. Portals seem to be more "natural' (or at least magical" phenomenon. Gates are mechanical/technological devices. (But both still exist.)

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Post by Connor MacLeod » 2007-07-03 06:09am

This comes from the 2nd edition IG codex, one of my favorite sources :D

Imperial Guard codex, 2nd edition:

Page 4
For ten thousand years the Imperium has shielded and nurtured a human million worlds.
The Imperium has had a "million" worlds minimum since the time of the Heresy. This tends to suggest that as time passes, the fact the Imperium is mentioned to hae had "millions" of worlds more likely (new worlds rediscoveverd or colonised, etc.)

Page 4
The Imperium includes more than a million worlds up to ninety thousand light years apart.
given a 90,000 light year diameter, and assuming a completely two dimensional plane (ignoring the 3rd dimension that is) this means each of the million planets is spread out among ~6,400 light years on average. This can vary some, of course, but it does fit with the "hundreds or thousands" of light years figure. Given average travel times of weeks or months, this also leads to a FTL speed many thousands or tens of thousands times the speed of light.

Page 18
The fighting skills of a regiment depend upon its combat experience on its home world, and, to some degree, upon the enviromental and social conditions that prevail there. Some worlds are civilised and well-ordered and their warriors wear formal uniforms and are highly trained. other worlds supply techno-barbarians who wear furs and have heavily tattooed skins, yet their warriors are fierce, courageous, and deadly as more formally trained regiments.
Discussion of the variance in types and doctrines and training of Guard units. Implies they're not all the "bayonet charging, trench warefare" lunatics usually assumed.

Page 18
When an Imperial Guard army is formed regiments are raisd from the planetary defence armies of the nearby worlds. The planetary Lords are obliged to provide a levy of troops for this purpose, so an Imperial Guard army can be recurited and ready for passage within a matter of days
.
Parrt of the reason for the "10% of a PDF" tithe - it is a quick source for well equipped, well trained troops when circumstances require.

Page 21
The Storm Troopers are the Imperial Guard's best fighting regiment. Unlike other regiments they are recruited from all across the Imperium, and they wear a distinctive uniform which is instantly recognizable by any other Imperial Guard units. The regiment is unusually large, with as many as ten thousand men under arms at one time. However, it rarely fights in one place. Instead, individual companies or battalions of a thousand men at a time are sent to war zones to bolster the fighting strength of the Imperial Guard. In action they provide a core of ultra-trained, well-equipped squads taht can be spread amongst the other Imperial Guard regiments as needed.

Storm troopers are recruited from the orphan sons of Imperial officials from all over the galaxy. The families of men who die in the Emperor's service are looked after well by the missions of the Imperial Cult.
I realize that this stuff was probably retconned well into the 2nd edition, but given how the novels tend to recycle material, its not impossible that the "storm trooper" regiments exist. Given that some "heavy infantry" regiments are also described as "storm troopers" (like the Jantine in First and Only, or possibly something like the Terrax Guard.) its certainly not implausible.)

Such "storm troopers" probably aren't neccesarily as "well equipped" as the "Glory Boys" however (but its not impossible either given Grenadiers.) And in any case, an entire regiment of 10,000 heavily armed and armoured storm troopers is a downright frightning prospect.

Page 21
Storm troopers are trained and equipped to much higher standards than other Imperial Guard regiments. Though all Imperial Guard represent the best fighting units from their planets, the unique position of the Storm Troopers gives them advantages over other troops. One of the greatest advantages is in their weaponry - although they use the standard universal lasgun and laspistol, they carry special power packs called hotshot packs.

Hotshot packs carry a much more potent charge than a standard laser power pack, with the result that a shot from a Hotshot laser is more destructive than an ordinary laser shot. These Hotshot packs are expensive and difficult to produce compared to ordinary power packs; they give fewer shots and cnanot be recharged as easily or as often. ASlo a lasgun or laspistol that uses a hotshot pack will wear out much more quickly and must be constantly maintained and repaired if it is to work properly.

For all these reasons the Administratum has never issued hotshot packs to the Imperial Guard, thoguh Storm troopers carry hotshot packs as stnadard. They are trained to look after the weapons and can even rebuild them if neccssary, and the relatively small number of Storm Troopers makes it possible to keep enough spare power packs in reserve.
Amusingly the hot shot packs look like Ghostbuster proton packs. Again, these were replaced by Hellguns in later editions, ,though the novel fluff (and other sourcecs) have kept the concept alive in other forms (magazine-size powerpacks mainly.)

It also does lead to an interesting speculation. We know about backpack powered "hotshot lasers" and "hellguns." Some plasma and meltaguns are also backpack powered (usually forge world figurines.) We also know from "cities of death" (something I'll cover later) that normal lasguns can be hooked up to independent power generations or power outlets for virtually infinite ammo supplies. Does this mean that "non-hotshot" backpack power sources for lasguns exist (the same way there are hotshot and "non-hotshot" magazine packs.)? If so, they might be analogus to light machine guns or SAWs in use (designed to provide suppressive fire.)

Page 21
Storm troopers are constantly moved from war zone to war zone and rate as among the most experienced units in the Imperial Guard. Unlike other regiments, Storm Trooper companies receive a constant influx of new recruits so they are kept up to full strength. Even new recruits are trained in the most thorough manner, and quickly absorb the battle skills practiced by their companies.
Now I do know this has changed as time passed, both in game fluffa nd in the novels. There ARE guard regiments that do receive influxes of recruits from various sources (THe vAlhallans from Valhalla in the Cain novels, whereas the Ghosts had their recruits from Vervunhive.)

Page 23
The Demolisher cannon is terrifyingly destructive, blasting through layers of plasteel and concrete alilke in a storm of plasma and flying debris. Originally designed to destroy bunkers and similar fortifications, the Demolisher cannon was soon found to be capable of obliterating enemy vehicles with ease. This deadly versatility makes the Leman Russ Demolisher siege tank an extremely valuable vehicle.

The Demolisher fires even larger and mroe devastating shells than a battle cannon. The secret to its great destructive energy lies in the special ammunition that it fires.

These huge shells are far heavier than the standard battle cannon ammunition. They consist of an outer layer of standard high explosive and shrapnel surrounding a chemical core. When the shell strikes its target the explosive detonates, blasting a hole in the target's armour and scattering shrapnel everywhere. At the same time, the explosion also sets off a chemical reaction which super-heats the second layer. This sends a plasma jet lancing through the hole blown in the armour and spreads flaming death and molten metal over a wide area, literally ripping the target apartt from the inside.

..

When the Demolisher cannon is fired, its massive recoil lifts the front of the tank off the ground. If it were fired on the move the whole tank would be in danger of rolling over! Because of this, the Demolisher cannon may only be fired if the vehicle remained stationary
Description of the design and capabilites of a siege tank shell whcih seem to be some sort of shaped-charge (or shaped charge like) coupled with an intial HESH charge (a tandem-charge warhead, in other words.) "plasma jet" may or may not be literal, since it is often used to refer to shaped charges (but is not literally plasma IIRC.)

The last bit is interesting as it implies very significant recoil from tank weapons - great enough to physically shift/rock the tank - even assuming the "roll over" bit isn't literal, it implies tremendous recoil far in excess of what modern tank rounds would possess. And moreover, this is a "short' ranged cannon (albeit with a heavier shell) - a standard Russ' is bound to have recoil of a simialr magnitude. It also corresponds with the other instances of tank "recoil/power" (IE necropolis and honor Guard.)
Page 24 wrote: "These (shells) have been developed from existing missile types and take advantage of the larger shell to make much more destructive versions.

...

The Heavy mortar crew are equipped with a sophisticated targeting device...

...

If the heavy mortar crew has line of sight to their target then they may opt to fire directly.

Commentary on "heavy mortar" platforms carried in a chimaera. Have fairly sophsticated (computerized?) targeting systems and ammunition derived from existing types modified to match a mortar round. "Missiles" I presume either means rockets like on the Manticore or (more probably) man portable launchers. Presumably the light mortars, basilisks, and even other tanks have similar ammunition available.

Likewise one could reasonably figure that other vehicles could employ the targeting system since hte mortar platform is largely chimaera variant.
Page 25 wrote: Melta shells [fired from the Griffon heavy mortars as described on page 24.]
Upon impact a Melta shell undergoes a sub-atomic reaciton releasing a blast of intense heat. The shell is capable of melting away vehicles and buildings, while living targets are instantly reduced to ashes. This shell is especially useful for attacking troops huddled together in defensive positions.[/quote]

Description of a melta shell fired by a mortar. This gives it SIGNIFICANT anti armour capability (against tanks and the like.) Th eability to melt vehicles (including armoured ones apparently) implies double digit gigajoule outputs. This is supported by the idea of "living targets" (plural) being reduced to ashes (GJ range events in and of itself per person.) Again, demonstration of the insane amount of firepower available to conventional guard regiments.
Page 26 wrote: The Inferno cannon is a huge flamer weapon, ,specially designed for the Hellhound armoured fire-trhower. The vast flamer weapon can send great gouts of white hot flames shooting across the battlefield. Nothing can escape from the immolation: troops in the open are reduced to ashes.
The inferno cannon can incinerate (reduce to ash) multipl etroopers, implying GJ range outputs (not surprising given the fluff capabilites of hand flamers.)

Inferno cannon, it should note, are not very effective at damaging a 'fully armoured vehicle", so vehicles in 40K are highly resistant to GJ range outputs (though a falmer isn't exactly like an energy weapon or projectile, so this is a very broad application and doesn't factor in momentum.)

Page 27
The Eartthshaker is able to fire two shells in rapid succeession.
In earlier editions the Earthshaker had a higher ROF capability than in later editions (which would result in higher recoil, of course.)

PAge 28
The Ogryn Ripper gun is a drum fed automatic combat shtogun developed by the Imperium for issue to OGryn units. The weapon is of suitably large dimensions and is constructed as solidly as possible because Ogryns have a tendency to use their weapons as clubs. The trigger mechanism incorporates a burst limiter that prevents the firer shoting off the entire drum at once - an entertaining possibility that would appeal to Ogryns and very quickly leave them out of ammunition.
The Ripper gun text here implies that if it didn't have the burst limiter, the gun would have a very high rate of automatic fire (a empty the drum in a few seconds.) Couple that with the raw potentail firepower of the Ripper Gun (its been implied some Ogryn can move/lift tanks, and that the Ripper guns' recoil is commensurate with that sort of strength.)
Page 29 wrote: In all that time there have been many fundamental changes in construction and even in appearnace [of the Leman Russ MBT], but the capabilities of the vehicle have changed very little. The chief reason why designs are varied is not to improve the tank but to accomodate the use of different materials, powerplants, and repair facilities.

The armoured casing of the Leman Russ is designed to be tough, long-lasting and easy to repair. In the hands of the Imperial guard a Leman Russ might find itsel fighting in palces as different as the blistering heat of an acid waste and the moist chill of a methane swamp. It must withstand all these enviroments as well as the shells and energy blasts of the enemy. For this reason the tank's armour isn't the most sophisticated by any means, but it is practical and rugged, and easily capable of withstanding a shot from all but the most dangerous weapons.

The Leman Russ's armament can be varied considerably, but the turret-mounted battle cannon is fundamental to the design. Variations which dispense with or replace the battle cannon are usually given some other name. In addition, the Leman Russ generally carries a hull-mounted lascannon. This weapon is specificially designed for tank busting, for attacking and killing enemy machines and especially large tough targets.

...

Instead of a battle cannon this tank carries the shorrt ranged but highly destructive Demolisher cannon.

Description of the design and capabilities of the Leman Russ tank. Of particular note is that the variations on it mainly come in materials, 'powerplants' (which can mean that the speeds of the tank can vary.) Weapons can vary as well. It is designed to function in all enviroments (and protect the crew and components from said enviroments.)

Lastly, regarding the weapons, it is interesting to note the 'Russ's laser cannon is primarily anti-tank in nature (makes sense, though) while the Battle Cannon does not seem to be specicically one or the other (it presumably can be anti-vehicle or anti-troop depending on roles)


Page 29
The Imperial Guard is a highly mechanised fighting force whose strength derives from huge reserves of artillery, tanks, and mobile weaponry.
Again, this does not sound like the sort of "bayonet charge n' trench warfare" types the Guard is typically portrayed (or misrepresented) as. They evidently DO have some concept of mobility and manuver warfare. (or at least some regiments do. Like the Narmenians and PArdus, or the force General Xarius' commanded in "Crimson Tears.")

Pag 30
The Hellhound has a viscious reputation, and the sight of just one of these monstrous war engines, incinerating whole swathes of troops with its horrifying inferno cannon instills fear into the hears of the enemy.
Again, the ability to cremate multiple organic trooper simplies GJ range outputs for the flamethrowers. (Which does little to tanks.)

Page 30
The Chimaera is the Imperial Guard's most numerous armoued troop carrier and infantry support vehicle. It can carry a full squad and one further man plus its own crew. In fast moving battles the Chimaera can transport its infantry squad many miles. This mobility is essential for the fast moving warfare that typifies the Imperial Guard attack, but is less useful in urban fighting and static defense.
Note the distinction between "fast moving warfare" on the offense versus the "urban fighting or static defense." Naturally there ARE cases when the Imperium does the "static warfare" thing, but more often than not those are from fixed (and shielded) defenses that must be held at all costs (like a hive world or a factory city or something) That does not mean (as we've seen in the novels) the concept of mobile attack or manuver warfare is completely foreign to the Guard, despite what some think.

Ultimately, the type of warfare will depend on factors such as the officer(S) in charge, the Regiment, the combat enviroment, the available resourcecs, and the enemy itself. (When your enemy makes headlong charges and is stronger and tougher than you are, such as the Orks or Tyranids static defenses cna make alot of sense. And Manuver warfare can't always help when you factor in orbital warfare.)

Page 30
The Chimaera chassis provides the basis for countless specialised vehicles from fuel tankers to ambulances, munitions carriers, mobile communications vehicles, recovery vehicles and even military construction vehicles like bulldozers and cranes. It is the most versatile of all the vehicles produced for the Imperial Guard and it can be adapted to take almost any power plant from sub-nuclear stacks to wood-burning steam turbines.[//quote]

Yes. Nuclear-powered AND Wood powered chimaeras. Talk about versatility. The former doubtless offers considerable speed and firepower, ,while the latter probably the opposite (but useful if you run out of other fuel sourcs.)

PAge 30
The sentinel is a walker type of vehicle. Its thin and cleverly articularted legs enable it to stalk quietly through dense undergrowth whilst permitting an impressive burst of speed over open territory. It walks with a strutting motion and its small, finely balanced cockpit is stabilised iwth complex gyroscopic sensors.
Gyroscopic sensors to help with the Sentinel's balance. Sensors for other purposes are not unreasonable (especialyl given that auspex are man portable)

Page 71
These (comm-links) are tied into the strategic command systems of the army's staff officers and enable the unit's officers to call down support from heavy weaponry behind the front lines.

Comm-link units are heavily shielded from stray electromagnetic interference and use an oscillating frequency that is almost impossible for the enemy to detect. Even if the enemy did intercept the scrambled messages it is doubtful whether they could make much sense of them without complex deciphering equipment.
Supposeldy guard Commlinks are "nigh impossible" to break, but this suggests that electronic warfare is not unknown to the Imperium (even on the groudn.) The mention of "electromagnetic interferencec" is interesting, as it suggests the Guard routinely expect battlefield conditions to include such (either non nuclear EMP like haywire, or the use of nuclear or nuclear-like weapons.)

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Post by weemadando » 2007-07-03 06:15am

Imperator Titans have been shown to be fucking retardedly small in the abortion of a novel series "Horus Heresy".

Apparently an Imperator Titan stands all of 43m tall.

Fourty. Fucking. Three. Metres. For this:

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Post by Black Admiral » 2007-07-03 06:25am

weemadando wrote:Imperator Titans have been shown to be fucking retardedly small in the abortion of a novel series "Horus Heresy".

Apparently an Imperator Titan stands all of 43m tall.
That's Graham McNeill only, and he seems to have something of an obsession with forty-odd meter tall Titans.

Dan Abnett, in Horus Rising, pegs Imperators as 140+ meters tall.
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Post by Lost Soal » 2007-07-03 01:06pm

The Hellhound does have a use against tanks as well, it was stated that while the flames are unable to penetrate the armour of a tank they can heat up the metal enough to turn them into cookers and thus killing the crew.
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Post by Lord Revan » 2007-07-03 01:11pm

is the size of the Hellstorm cannon in DoW:Dark Crusade anywhere close to the size it should be? (it's from Imperator-class war titan)
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Post by andrewgpaul » 2007-07-03 06:10pm

The Forgeworld Warhound is 14m tall, and comes up to approximately the Imperator's knee. A ~2m tall Space Marine comes up to approximately the top of those steps on its toes.

Graham MacNeill at least makes up for Mark Gibbons' Reaver illutration, and the cover of the Titan graphic novel, which make the battle titans absurdly huge (the Warlord's multi-barrelled cannon looks like it has a bore large enough to walk down!)
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Post by Ford Prefect » 2007-07-03 09:52pm

andrewgpaul wrote:Graham MacNeill at least makes up for Mark Gibbons' Reaver illutration, and the cover of the Titan graphic novel, which make the battle titans absurdly huge (the Warlord's multi-barrelled cannon looks like it has a bore large enough to walk down!)
It's large enough to live in - there are details on the front of the cannon that you can scale it with (ladders and an access door). It is stupidly large.
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Post by His Divine Shadow » 2007-07-04 03:26pm

weemadando wrote:Imperator Titans have been shown to be fucking retardedly small in the abortion of a novel series "Horus Heresy".

Apparently an Imperator Titan stands all of 43m tall.

Fourty. Fucking. Three. Metres. For this:

http://www.mustangsalling.dk/imperium/images/lm1.jpg
My god, it's a walking church.

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Post by white_rabbit » 2007-07-04 06:18pm

His Divine Shadow wrote:
weemadando wrote:Imperator Titans have been shown to be fucking retardedly small in the abortion of a novel series "Horus Heresy".

Apparently an Imperator Titan stands all of 43m tall.

Fourty. Fucking. Three. Metres. For this:

http://www.mustangsalling.dk/imperium/images/lm1.jpg
My god, it's a walking church.
Funnily enough, thats because it is one.

The Imperators, as well as being huge feck off death machines are also involved when newly discovered/recovered human worlds are being absorbed into the Imperium. They are used as mobile cathedrals and walking effigies of the Imperium, and have both religious and military employment in these roles.

They also serve as nerve centers for such efforts due to their choir of astropaths.

:P
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Post by andrewgpaul » 2007-07-04 07:32pm

Ford Prefect wrote:
andrewgpaul wrote:Graham MacNeill at least makes up for Mark Gibbons' Reaver illutration, and the cover of the Titan graphic novel, which make the battle titans absurdly huge (the Warlord's multi-barrelled cannon looks like it has a bore large enough to walk down!)
It's large enough to live in - there are details on the front of the cannon that you can scale it with (ladders and an access door). It is stupidly large.
And, to my knowledge, inconsistent with everything else - including the access hatches on the actual miniature. The mini's about 8cm tall, scaling roughly to 20-something metres tall; if those gun barrels have a 6m+ bore, as the illustration indicates, that means the Warlord titan is on the order of a kilometre tall!
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Post by andrewgpaul » 2007-07-04 07:33pm

Hmm; mebbe not; more likely half a klick, but still.
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Post by Ford Prefect » 2007-07-04 08:30pm

It's simply the high end of Dictatio's variable size.
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Post by Connor MacLeod » 2007-07-30 12:50am

Lost Soal wrote:The Hellhound does have a use against tanks as well, it was stated that while the flames are unable to penetrate the armour of a tank they can heat up the metal enough to turn them into cookers and thus killing the crew.
Bleh, I forgot about that. I suppose I should add it - though I'll be commentating on something similar in Ghostmaker. Then again it doesn't tell us how hot the tank has to get before that happens either. 40K flamers are pretty fucking energetic, especially hellhound flamers, and tank armour is by design VERY energy resistant (hell by the game stuff, your average flak vest has a good resilience against flamers too... go figure..)


As for the Titan thing - one thing you learn about 40K is not to put too much heavy stock in the whole naming thing. They tend to be very repetitive (or even silly) in naming classes and stuff, and given the scope of the Imperium, as well as its inconsistent navigation and communication network and the quasi-isolation that can set in, you could quite likely have two or more independent groups naming two (or more) vehicles or weapons (like Titans) the same without knowing it. And the entrenched bureacracy of the Imperium would probably make altering it a bitch as well.

Either that or you can just retcon it, though I suspect that would prove to be a bloody nightmare.

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