Threw avay my microwave oven

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Howedar
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Post by Howedar » 2007-06-18 11:32pm

I rarely use my microwave. If I'm cooking one person worth of food, it's usually on the stove. If I'm cooking for more than one person, it's either on the stove or it's a pizza in the oven.

Few of the things I cook are well adapted to microwaving. Those that are, of course, I microwave without a second thought.

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Post by Darth Wong » 2007-06-19 02:14am

SirNitram wrote:If the wiring in here could take the strain, I'd spring for one of those combination microwave-convection ovens. Sadly, it can't, so I don't.
Mine doesn't require any special wiring. A standard 120V 15A line is good enough.
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Re: Threw avay my microwave oven

Post by Faram » 2007-06-19 02:45am

Darth Wong wrote:Suppose someone said: "Indeed, but I have a reason to drive a huge SUV. I do not like the way it feels to drive in a regular car. I prefer driving a huge SUV." Would you find that logic similarly convincing? It's still unethical to use energy (especially 10x as much as you need to) just for some vague personal preference. And the difference between an SUV and a regular car is nowhere near as dramatic as the difference between a conventional oven and a microwave.
Okay you sell your car and I will get whatever micro that is the most efficient.
Darth Wong wrote:So you use roughly one third the electricity of the average US household. How large is your family?
Me.
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Re: Threw avay my microwave oven

Post by Darth Wong » 2007-06-19 02:55am

Faram wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Suppose someone said: "Indeed, but I have a reason to drive a huge SUV. I do not like the way it feels to drive in a regular car. I prefer driving a huge SUV." Would you find that logic similarly convincing? It's still unethical to use energy (especially 10x as much as you need to) just for some vague personal preference. And the difference between an SUV and a regular car is nowhere near as dramatic as the difference between a conventional oven and a microwave.
Okay you sell your car and I will get whatever micro that is the most efficient.
My car is a four-cylinder model and is quite efficient at doing a job which cannot practically be done without a car at all, at least not until the public transit in this city improves. You, on the other hand, have chosen to exclusively use a product which is more than ten times as inefficient as other available products that do pretty much the same thing (and faster!), albeit not the way you "prefer" it.
Darth Wong wrote:So you use roughly one third the electricity of the average US household. How large is your family?
Me.
What the fuck are you bragging about then?
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Re: Threw avay my microwave oven

Post by Faram » 2007-06-19 02:57am

Darth Wong wrote:My car is a four-cylinder model and is quite efficient at doing a job which cannot practically be done without a car at all, at least not until the public transit in this city improves. You, on the other hand, have chosen to exclusively use a product which is more than ten times as inefficient as other available products that do pretty much the same thing, albeit not the way you "prefer" it.
And my bicykle uses what 0.1%? of the energy compared to a car.
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Nature does all things spontaneously, by herself, without the meddling of the gods. -Lucretius

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Re: Threw avay my microwave oven

Post by Darth Wong » 2007-06-19 02:59am

Faram wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:My car is a four-cylinder model and is quite efficient at doing a job which cannot practically be done without a car at all, at least not until the public transit in this city improves. You, on the other hand, have chosen to exclusively use a product which is more than ten times as inefficient as other available products that do pretty much the same thing, albeit not the way you "prefer" it.
And my bicykle uses what 0.1%? of the energy compared to a car.
Obviously, you're too stupid to read. It does not perform the same function, never mind performing it faster. False analogy.
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Re: Threw avay my microwave oven

Post by Faram » 2007-06-19 03:05am

Darth Wong wrote:
Faram wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:My car is a four-cylinder model and is quite efficient at doing a job which cannot practically be done without a car at all, at least not until the public transit in this city improves. You, on the other hand, have chosen to exclusively use a product which is more than ten times as inefficient as other available products that do pretty much the same thing, albeit not the way you "prefer" it.
And my bicykle uses what 0.1%? of the energy compared to a car.
Obviously, you're too stupid to read. It does not perform the same function, never mind performing it faster. False analogy.
So your comfort in using somthing that is faster is more inportant than using somthing that is more energy efficient?

And for those absolutly must use a car stuff, like moving big shit, get a taxi.
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"Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot; or he can, but does not want to. ... If he wants to, but cannot, he is impotent. If he can, but does not want to, he is wicked. ... If, as they say, God can abolish evil, and God really wants to do it, why is there evil in the world?" -Epicurus


Fear is the mother of all gods.

Nature does all things spontaneously, by herself, without the meddling of the gods. -Lucretius

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Post by Tranan » 2007-06-19 03:07am

Darth Wong wrote:My car is a four-cylinder model and is quite efficient at doing a job which cannot practically be done without a car at all, at least not until the public transit in this city improves. You, on the other hand, have chosen to exclusively use a product which is more than ten times as inefficient as other available products that do pretty much the same thing, albeit not the way you "prefer" it.


Wasent the thing fore faram that the taste was much better in a regular oven.

And counting cylinders on a car Is a useless measurement on efficiency. It is as useful as the colour on your car.

More dependent on weight, fuel, oil, tyres, and drag (mechanical and wind).
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Re: Threw avay my microwave oven

Post by Darth Wong » 2007-06-19 03:10am

Faram wrote:So your comfort in using somthing that is faster is more inportant than using somthing that is more energy efficient?
Christ, you really are fucking dense, aren't you? In a society that unfortunately has very poor public transit, you simply cannot get to certain places without a car. You certainly can't do it on a schedule, which is the sort of thing you often have to worry about if you're (for example) driving your firstborn son to a goddamned private school that he needs to attend because he has Asberger's Syndrome. And that's just one example.
And for those absolutly must use a car stuff, like moving big shit, get a taxi.
Of course, because when you take a taxi, you don't use any energy, unlike using your own car! :roll: Did you even think this shit through, or are you so busy sniffing glue that this actually makes sense to you?

The point remains: when you REFUSE to use a microwave, you are eschewing something that does the same thing, but not to your personal satisfaction. It is a false analogy to say that a car vs a bike is the same thing.
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Post by Darth Wong » 2007-06-19 03:12am

Tranan wrote:More dependent on weight, fuel, oil, tyres, and drag (mechanical and wind).
Wow, thanks for the oh-so-informative news flash. I've never heard any of that in my life before, despite studying mechanical engineering :roll:
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Post by SirNitram » 2007-06-19 03:12am

Darth Wong wrote:
SirNitram wrote:If the wiring in here could take the strain, I'd spring for one of those combination microwave-convection ovens. Sadly, it can't, so I don't.
Mine doesn't require any special wiring. A standard 120V 15A line is good enough.
No, no. It's not some requirement of special wiring. It's that the wiring and fuses in this apartment building are pathetic. We have to carefully arrange the electrical heaters in the house during winter because they blow fuses regularly otherwise.
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Re: Threw avay my microwave oven

Post by Faram » 2007-06-19 03:12am

Darth Wong wrote:Of course, because when you take a taxi, you don't use any energy, unlike using your own car! :roll: Did you even think this shit through, or are you so busy sniffing glue that this actually makes sense to you?

The point remains: when you REFUSE to use a microwave, you are eschewing something that does the same thing, but not to your personal satisfaction. It is a false analogy to say that a car vs a bike is the same thing.
Not if you walk or whatever to from where you need to move big shit and get a taxi back. And I did not bring up the car stuff, you did.
Last edited by Faram on 2007-06-19 03:14am, edited 1 time in total.
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"Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot; or he can, but does not want to. ... If he wants to, but cannot, he is impotent. If he can, but does not want to, he is wicked. ... If, as they say, God can abolish evil, and God really wants to do it, why is there evil in the world?" -Epicurus


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Nature does all things spontaneously, by herself, without the meddling of the gods. -Lucretius

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Post by Darth Wong » 2007-06-19 03:13am

SirNitram wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:
SirNitram wrote:If the wiring in here could take the strain, I'd spring for one of those combination microwave-convection ovens. Sadly, it can't, so I don't.
Mine doesn't require any special wiring. A standard 120V 15A line is good enough.
No, no. It's not some requirement of special wiring. It's that the wiring and fuses in this apartment building are pathetic. We have to carefully arrange the electrical heaters in the house during winter because they blow fuses regularly otherwise.
Electric heaters are actually quite brutal on power. Most electric heaters draw between 1200W and 1500W as a matter of course. If you can run an electric heater at all, you can run a convection oven.

Do you not have a gas-burning central heater?
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Post by Spin Echo » 2007-06-19 03:13am

DW, would you still consider it unethical to use a regular oven over a microwave oven even if your power source came exclusively from say, hydroelectric or geothermal?
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Re: Threw avay my microwave oven

Post by Darth Wong » 2007-06-19 03:14am

Faram wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Of course, because when you take a taxi, you don't use any energy, unlike using your own car! :roll: Did you even think this shit through, or are you so busy sniffing glue that this actually makes sense to you?

The point remains: when you REFUSE to use a microwave, you are eschewing something that does the same thing, but not to your personal satisfaction. It is a false analogy to say that a car vs a bike is the same thing.
Not if you walk or whatever to from where you need to move big shit and get a taxi back.
Oh that's a great idea. I'll just walk 30 km, with my oldest son, and then we'll pick up 200 kg of fucking water that I need for business reasons and haul that in a goddamned taxicab, all within one hour! Thanks for the tip, moron. I'll be sure to use your brilliant plan tomorrow.
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Post by SirNitram » 2007-06-19 03:16am

Darth Wong wrote:Electric heaters are actually quite brutal on power. Most electric heaters draw between 1200W and 1500W as a matter of course. If you can run an electric heater at all, you can run a convection oven.

Do you not have a gas-burning central heater?
We have some kind of gas burning heaters, not centralized. I can check the wattage on the electrical heaters and compare them to microwaves, but I'm not anticipating success. This house is old and is suffering from something like a decade of neglect under the old owner who just wanted rid of it. The new owner, last I heard, was still trying to handle all the bills the guy hadn't paid and so just piled up.
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Re: Threw avay my microwave oven

Post by Faram » 2007-06-19 03:20am

Darth Wong wrote:Oh that's a great idea. I'll just walk 30 km, with my oldest son, and then we'll pick up 200 kg of fucking water that I need for business reasons and haul that in a goddamned taxicab, all within one hour! Thanks for the tip, moron. I'll be sure to use your brilliant plan tomorrow.
Is there no school ride for your kids? Otherwise get a carpool with other parents and save two or three rides in total every day.

Make a deal with the store to get the 200kg of water delivered, along with wahtever heavy shit the have to other customers, that way there will be some savings in comparison with a lot of people using ther own cars in multiple trips to and back from the store.
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Re: Threw avay my microwave oven

Post by Darth Wong » 2007-06-19 03:34am

Faram wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Oh that's a great idea. I'll just walk 30 km, with my oldest son, and then we'll pick up 200 kg of fucking water that I need for business reasons and haul that in a goddamned taxicab, all within one hour! Thanks for the tip, moron. I'll be sure to use your brilliant plan tomorrow.
Is there no school ride for your kids? Otherwise get a carpool with other parents and save two or three rides in total every day.
You're just bound and determined to prove what an ignorant moron you are, aren't you? Did it ever occur to you that a private school specializing in educational-needs kids does not necessarily have other client parents within walking distance of my place?

And how about your base logic? You're assuming that a taxicab would somehow save gas over using my own car; do you not realize that most taxicabs actually get worse mileage than my car does? Did it occur to you that they spend gas getting to the pickup location, and idling while looking for fares? Did it occur to you that this is definitely NOT a case of near-identical functionality for 10x greater efficiency, even if we disregard your moronic assumption that the taxicab magically gets to the pickup location without using any gas on the way there?
Make a deal with the store to get the 200kg of water delivered, along with wahtever heavy shit the have to other customers, that way there will be some savings in comparison with a lot of people using ther own cars in multiple trips to and back from the store.
Have you ever tried living in the real world, dipshit? You obviously have some very convenient lifestyle, where you never need a car and you have no wife and no kids and you live in a high-density area where everything is close together. Well bully for you, but you obviously don't know the first fucking thing about doing business in a North American city. That water would be delivered by a large gas-guzzling truck, which would have to go quite a bit out of its way to reach me.

And all of this is a red-herring. The fact is that you have NO clue how difficult it is to function with no car in a typical North American city, so you're just pulling shit out of your ass and making up solutions which would never work. All to justify the fact that in your own case, you always choose to waste power with no justification whatsoever other than personal subjective preference. It's not even that you do it sometimes, or even a lot of the time, but you do it 100% of the time.

You sound just like cigarette smokers, who try to deflect criticism by defensively lashing out at ... you guessed it ... the fact that people drive cars.
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Post by Faram » 2007-06-19 03:38am

And you are unvilling to even consider one of my suggestion for energy savings, all that matters to you is that i save some measly kWh for a preference.
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Nature does all things spontaneously, by herself, without the meddling of the gods. -Lucretius

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Post by Darth Wong » 2007-06-19 03:40am

Faram wrote:And you are unvilling to even consider one of my suggestion for energy savings, all that matters to you is that i save some measly kWh for a preference.
Name one suggestion that I have ignored rather than refuting, you lying little fucktard. The fact is that you speak largely out of ignorance, and all of your suggestions would either not work or would actually waste MORE energy.

As for the "measly kWh", the peak energy use time in Ontario is dinnertime, when everyone gets home and turns on all of those conventional ovens. Your "measly" energy problem forces the construction of extra power plants. You're just full of ignorant bullshit today aren't you?
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Post by Faram » 2007-06-19 03:54am

deflect criticism by defensively lashing out at ... you guessed it ... the fact that people drive cars.
First of I did not bring up a car into this you did.

So you are saing that walking or whatever to a store but not using petrol and geting a taxi back is less energy efficient than geting a car to and back from the store? Perhaps in one single case but if 10 people walked to the store and got a cab back there would be energy savings.

If a big energygussling truck bringin 200kg of water would not be a vaste if it was filled with stuff to other people doing the same thing.

And me living in a high city with good public transport, true. But if you wish you could move to a location where everything is withing easy reach.

Also regarding to carpooling kids to shool, how am I supposed to know about your needs? In most caes that would be true.
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"Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot; or he can, but does not want to. ... If he wants to, but cannot, he is impotent. If he can, but does not want to, he is wicked. ... If, as they say, God can abolish evil, and God really wants to do it, why is there evil in the world?" -Epicurus


Fear is the mother of all gods.

Nature does all things spontaneously, by herself, without the meddling of the gods. -Lucretius

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Post by His Divine Shadow » 2007-06-19 05:51am

My GF and I don't have one but at work I use it every day to heat my lunch.

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Re: Threw avay my microwave oven

Post by His Divine Shadow » 2007-06-19 05:53am

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
Faram wrote:Okay, I just threw away my fully functional Microwave oven, because I newer used it and it was taking space in my kitchen.

The last time it was used I heated some stuff that I can put in a regular owen and be done in 30-40 minutes or put it in the mico and be done in 7. But if I micro then it feels wrong, I dont get a crust on the food and I have to wait 5 minutes for the heat to spread through all food.

So do you use the microwave or is it a dust collector?
I don't use the oven at all unless absolutely necessary, as it is highly energy inefficient compared with a microwave, and efficiency = life in the coming world. You will sorely regret your choice to keep your old inefficient oven instead of a microwave oven.
Thank goodness my grandmother still has her wood burning stove.

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Post by His Divine Shadow » 2007-06-19 06:09am

Questions.

-Is a waterheater an electricity guzzler? Everyone has them nowadays, you just fill the pot and flip a switch, it works through resistance heating, thats pretty energy intensive right? Would it be better to heat your tea-water in the microwave per cup maybe?

-We also use the water heater to preheat water for cooking purposes rather than put cold water in a pot right on the stove. That way we don't have to wait for ages until the water will boil. It would seem the water heater is much better at heating so this should save quite alot of energy?

Yes, a kettle is what I meant. I just had that word associated with old fashioned iron kettles, not it's modern electric analouge.
Last edited by His Divine Shadow on 2007-06-19 10:32am, edited 3 times in total.

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Drooling Iguana
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Post by Drooling Iguana » 2007-06-19 08:21am

I don't think an electric kettle (what I assume you mean by "water heater," a term I usually see associated with the large tanks a typical home has to allow for hot running water from the faucets) would be any less efficient than a microwave for heating water. An oven is less efficient because it has to heat all the air around your food as well as the food itself, but a kettle would have its heating elements in near direct contact with the water, so provided the kettle is well-insulated little heat would be wasted.

It might even be more efficient than a microwave because kettles typically have a very small opening compared to their total volume which would cut down on energy loss through evaporation, while microwave boiling would typically be done in an open-topped container, not to mention the inefficiencies involved in converting electricity to microwave EMR which is then converted to heat rather than just using the electricity to produce heat directly.

Of course, I've never actually done any tests to compare the two, so I don't have any hard numbers on this. I'd be interested to hear if anyone has any more solid information on this.
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