Gen. Pace calls homosexuality immoral

[Redleader34]

Kamakazie Sith, you are acting worse than a freshman at my all boys highs school at the first gym shower day "But The other boys will rape me!!one!!one!," I mean, guess what, if you are so lacking in your sexuality that you can't handle a man thinking you are sexually attractive, then you shouldn't have joined up in one of the more homo-erotic places in the world. I mean, he won't rape you, and if the alleged "Gay" man makes you uncomfortable, Grow a pair, and talk to him, man to man, after you have your shower and get dressed. I had this problem, and if I as a 16 year old teenager can solve it, you as a tough military man should easily solve it.

[Flagg]

You're talking about taking away the rights of heterosexual men.

I was unaware that there was an inherent right not to be in the same communal shower area with a gay person.

I was unaware that there was an inherent right not to be sexually desired. Luckily, my rights remain intact.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

You're talking about taking away the rights of heterosexual men.

I was unaware that there was an inherent right not to be in the same communal shower area with a gay person.

I was unaware that there was an inherent right not to be sexually desired. Luckily, my rights remain intact.

Eh, my rights got severely violated today then.

[Stark]

There are some women like that to does this mean we should start having coed showers?

What? I said 'I would have no greater anxiety about showering with men period over gay/straight/black men'. From my perspective, the unfamiliarity of showering with men is totally unrelated to the race or orientation of those men, which wouldn't concern me in the least.

If you're asking me if I've got a problem with coed showers, the answer is obviously 'no'. I'm not making any suggestions or comments about policy in an organisation like the military - as I said, I've never served and wouldn't know. You are clearly suggesting here that coed showers (in a military setting or not I don't know) are some huge problem.

[Elfdart]

I'd be tickled pink if some gay dude looked at my hairy chigger-scarred ass and popped a boner. That's a compliment, Kamikaze Sith, so take it as one you dumb fuck!

[Coyote]

In a way, I think I understand Kamikaze Sith's concerns here-- the idea that straight men will be --potentially-- confronted with the same leering stares and overt interest focused on them that they normally focus on women. It will put them in the place of being the object of unwanted interest. And, I feel fairly certain, that they will feel like they (the straight men) will be unable to complain (for fear of seeming like squeamish sissies) or because they feel like the gay men are somehow "protected minorities" that they dare not jostle for fear of being punished.

But the way Cpl. Kendall explains it, if gay men are harassing straight men, it is "sexual harassment" which is a punishable offense.

Edit: that is, according to Cpl. Kendall's explanation of how things work in the Canadian forces.

[Stark]

I think it's an interesting example of sexual politics. Clearly some men are afraid of being the recipient of the sort of attention men give women - wanted or not. Women live with it - some of them most of their lives - but to men it's less commonplace, and apparently scary.

[Coyote]

I'd be tickled pink if some gay dude looked at my hairy chigger-scarred ass and popped a boner. That's a compliment, Kamikaze Sith, so take it as one you dumb fuck!

You say that now, but wait until your avatar shemale, Ann Coulter, tears off her dress and comes at you, screaming, "I ride you now, my love stallion!"

[Darth Wong]

Again, nobody is talking about gay men raping gay men. It's about having the right to shower without being sexually desired by another person. I can't believe the bullshit here. Why is it in matters such as this the minority end up oppressing the majority?

What exactly is your definition of "oppress", fucktard? Because you are literally talking about taking away equality rights for a minority in order to keep them from "oppressing" the majority by looking at them the wrong way.

[brianeyci]

Again, nobody is talking about gay men raping gay men. It's about having the right to shower without being sexually desired by another person. I can't believe the bullshit here. Why is it in matters such as this the minority end up oppressing the majority?

You're talking about taking away the rights of heterosexual men. We do have the to privacy away from those who are sexually attracted to us. We don't want to fuck everything that moves either.

You're right, nobody's talking about gay men raping gay men. You're talking about gay men raping straight men, in particular a gay man raping you whether you know it or not. What is your rational basis for right for privacy in a military communal shower. I can give tons of reasons why men should be separate from women, can you give a single reason why men should be separate from other gay men other than "I don't like it, like Tim Hardaway."

I wish people wouldn't dilute the meaning of rights by screaming rights rights whenever they see something they don't like. Last time I checked distance from gay people when naked is not a human right or any kind of right at all.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Thank you Captain Obvious for repeating yourself and failing to answer my question. Try again.

The difference is one is a ethnic issue, and the other is a sexuality issue.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Sith:

Dude, what the hell is your hangup about this? There are currently homosexual men and women in the military who regularly shower with other men and women, some of whome are also homosexuals. What horrible things do you think would happen?

I don't think anything horrible will happen. What I know will happen is heterosexuals will become uncomfortable with the presence of a know homosexual in the showers with them.

The problems could range anywhere from increased hostility against homosexuals, to decreased hygiene among heterosexuals.

[Pint0 Xtreme]

Thank you Captain Obvious for repeating yourself and failing to answer my question. Try again.

The difference is one is a ethnic issue, and the other is a sexuality issue.

Are you seriously that fucking retarded? I know that one is an ethnic issue and the other a sexuality issue. What I'm asking is why one warrants segregation while the other does not? Stop repeating yourself as if it will magically answer this question.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Where in the HELL are you getting this blatant bullfuckery? How the fuck are you being oppressed if some guy takes a liking to you, shower or no shower (i.e. context does fuckall in this scenario)? I'll bet 99% of the time you wouldn't even know you're being checked out by a guy, even if he's naked.

I'm wondering the same about you? I thought you of all people would understand the desire to feel comfortable in your enviroment. Heterosexuals aren't being oppressed because a homosexual may take a liking to them.

In this scenario without seperate facilities they would be oppressed because they aren't afforded the same respect. Heterosexual men do have the right to take a shower without the possibility of being sized up.

Snip red herring pic
quote]

[Kamakazie Sith]

Do outline for the class how the minority is actually executing this oppression of the majority you speak of. Do they have the power the majority doesn't to enforce their desires? To force others to acknowledge or indulge them? To act on them with impunity?

Well, this scenario isn't currently happening now because of DATD, and honestly thank god. I would have been so uncomfortable during Basic if I would have known there were homosexuals in the same shower with me.

We're talking about if DADT was rescinded. In that scenario, without seperate facilities, heterosexuals would be oppressed because they're not afforded the privacy of being naked among those who would likely be sexually attracted to them.

I was unaware that there was an inherent right not to be in the same communal shower area with a gay person.

Women have this right, and that's because of the human desire to mate with them. Why shouldn't heterosexual men be free of the gay desire?

[Kamakazie Sith]

Kamakazie Sith, you are acting worse than a freshman at my all boys highs school at the first gym shower day "But The other boys will rape me!!one!!one!," I mean, guess what, if you are so lacking in your sexuality that you can't handle a man thinking you are sexually attractive, then you shouldn't have joined up in one of the more homo-erotic places in the world. I mean, he won't rape you, and if the alleged "Gay" man makes you uncomfortable, Grow a pair, and talk to him, man to man, after you have your shower and get dressed. I had this problem, and if I as a 16 year old teenager can solve it, you as a tough military man should easily solve it.

How many times do I have to say this. I'm not claiming that homosexual men will start raping heterosexual men. That isn't even a concern of mine. It's about ones dignity to be able to take a shower without having the potential to be lusted after.

[Kamakazie Sith]

'Women certainly wouldn't tolerate it with men'? On what do you base this sweeping generalization of roughly three billion individuals?
[/quote

Last time I checked the US military didn't have three billion individuals.

Yes. Is this some shocking, gut-wrenching, world-collapsing revelation to you? Does nudity so scar and terrify you?

If they are all okay with it then that's fine, but I suspect some of them were too reserved to say anything, and just went along with it.

[Kamakazie Sith]

You're talking about taking away the rights of heterosexual men.

I was unaware that there was an inherent right not to be in the same communal shower area with a gay person.

I was unaware that there was an inherent right not to be sexually desired. Luckily, my rights remain intact.

Why are people having a sudden reading comprehension problem. It's not sexual desire alone, but the very real possibility that a homosexual would be sexually attracted to you in the shower.

Do you understand? This is no different than the reason why men are seperated from women. I bet if we were talking about coed showers then the same people that are for it in this case would be against it in that case.

[Kamakazie Sith]

I'd be tickled pink if some gay dude looked at my hairy chigger-scarred ass and popped a boner. That's a compliment, Kamikaze Sith, so take it as one you dumb fuck!

That's awesome. Not everyone is you, asshole. Stop being so god damn selfish.

[Kamakazie Sith]

What exactly is your definition of "oppress", fucktard? Because you are literally talking about taking away equality rights for a minority in order to keep them from "oppressing" the majority by looking at them the wrong way.

Right, Dumb Fuck, because asking that they take showers in a seperate building equals them being oppressed. I suppose heterosexual men have been oppressed because they have to take showers in seperate facilities from females.

How, exactly is forcing someone to take a shower in the same room as someone who may desire them sexually not oppression?

[SirNitram]

'Women certainly wouldn't tolerate it with men'? On what do you base this sweeping generalization of roughly three billion individuals?

Last time I checked the US military didn't have three billion individuals.

I'm sorry, can you read? You said 'Women don't stand for this'. Not 'The US Military' or 'Women in the US Military'. What, you want to backpedal now? Run back and try and find some ground that doesn't reveal you've got some giant fucking issues?

Yes. Is this some shocking, gut-wrenching, world-collapsing revelation to you? Does nudity so scar and terrify you?

If they are all okay with it then that's fine, but I suspect some of them were too reserved to say anything, and just went along with it.

Or, you know, did like everyone else who was too embarassed and brought a swimsuit. It's a body. Everyone's seen a fucking tit before. Get over yourself.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

Dig that hole, cunt. See you in Parting Shots, asshole.

How, exactly is forcing someone to take a shower in the same room as someone who may desire them sexually not oppression?

When the person with the desire keeps it to himself, you blithering cuntwad.

[Patrick Degan]

Do outline for the class how the minority is actually executing this oppression of the majority you speak of. Do they have the power the majority doesn't to enforce their desires? To force others to acknowledge or indulge them? To act on them with impunity?

Well, this scenario isn't currently happening now because of DATD, and honestly thank god. I would have been so uncomfortable during Basic if I would have known there were homosexuals in the same shower with me.

We're talking about if DADT was rescinded. In that scenario, without seperate facilities, heterosexuals would be oppressed because they're not afforded the privacy of being naked among those who would likely be sexually attracted to them.

Time for you to grow up. Really. Do you think men don't face this sort of possibility in the shower area of a health club? The YMCA? A professional sports team's locker room? You still don't explain exactly how this alleged oppression is occuring other than your personal discomfort with the idea that a gay man might be ogling you, nor that your reaction must be universal amongst all heterosexual males who may be in the same situation.

I was unaware that there was an inherent right not to be in the same communal shower area with a gay person.

Women have this right, and that's because of the human desire to mate with them. Why shouldn't heterosexual men be free of the gay desire?

It is not a "right" but more a cultural convention. In the Roman Empire, on the other hand, mixed-gender communal bathing was commonplace, and up to the early 20th century in Japan, the sento was commonly unisex as well. Different cultural conventions, different perspectives on the matter. Shit, there are co-ed communal baths in our own society in California. And if the concept you're outlining had any validity, then why aren't women afforded "protection" of their "right" not to share a communal shower or bath space with women who might be lesbian?

[Kamakazie Sith]

You're right, nobody's talking about gay men raping gay men. You're talking about gay men raping straight men, in particular a gay man raping you whether you know it or not. What is your rational basis for right for privacy in a military communal shower. I can give tons of reasons why men should be separate from women, can you give a single reason why men should be separate from other gay men other than "I don't like it, like Tim Hardaway."

You've done half the work already. You said you could give me tons of reasons why men should be seperate from women. All you have to do now is apply those to this topic.

I wish people wouldn't dilute the meaning of rights by screaming rights rights whenever they see something they don't like. Last time I checked distance from gay people when naked is not a human right or any kind of right at all.

I wish people wouldn't act like they know what "equal rights" means when they really have no fucking clue.

[Crossroads Inc.]

After reading all of this, I think something is very mcuh apparent here.

Heterosexual men are terrified of someone treating THEM the way THEY treat women..

That is really what this is all about. (most) heterosexual men look at women with lust and often see them as just objects for sex... Thats a rather gross generalization, but one I imagine that applies to a wide range of people.

Now imagine for a moment, take all of the lusting, looking, and obgectifcation, and apply it to men. Once gays enter in, these same men would imagine that, naturally, Homosexuals wil ltreat them the same way they treat women.

That really is what this boils down to... IMHO...