40K New God Creation

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2006-07-31 01:40am

Hopes and dreams are the desire for Change. That's Tzeentch's territory.

The sheer bulk of humanity's unified feelings towards its Emperor and race are the ones promoted by the Ecclesiarchy; intolerance, obedience, and honest human hatred. Everything else generally falls under the petty personal desires Human beings always have, thus feeding the powers of Chaos.

Shadowtraveler · Post by **Shadowtraveler** » 2006-07-31 02:03am

Utsanomiko wrote:Hopes and dreams are the desire for Change. That's Tzeentch's territory.

Perhaps.

Utsanomiko wrote:The sheer bulk of humanity's unified feelings towards its Emperor and race are the ones promoted by the Ecclesiarchy; intolerance, obedience, and honest human hatred. Everything else generally falls under the petty personal desires Human beings always have, thus feeding the powers of Chaos.

You make it sound as if all people in the Imperium pray for is to kill people they don't like. Not everyone in the Imperium is in it for themselves.

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2006-07-31 02:28am

Shadowtraveler wrote:
Utsanomiko wrote:Hopes and dreams are the desire for Change. That's Tzeentch's territory.
Perhaps.

Not perhaps; definitely. Hope is among Tzeentch's portfolio.

You make it sound as if all people in the Imperium pray for is to kill people they don't like. Not everyone in the Imperium is in it for themselves.

Hatred is the Emperor's greatest gift to Mankind.

Few would dare to oppose the Ecclesiarchy, and the few are irrelevant, it is the masses that matter. Average Joe Imperial Citizen is a xenophobic, intolerant workaholic.

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2006-07-31 03:59am

Shadowtraveler wrote:I thought Slaanesh ate the Eldar Gods.

He didn't eat Harlequin and Khaine was rescued. The Eldar are building a new god in the Infinity Circuits of their craft worlds.

Shadowtraveler · Post by **Shadowtraveler** » 2006-07-31 11:38am

Brother-Captain Gaius wrote:Hatred is the Emperor's greatest gift to Mankind.

I thought it was a unified human empire founded on the idea that people could work towards a common goal without breaking down to infighting.

Brother-Captain Gaius wrote:Few would dare to oppose the Ecclesiarchy, and the few are irrelevant, it is the masses that matter. Average Joe Imperial Citizen is a xenophobic, intolerant workaholic.

I would still think that anything done in the Emperor's name empowers him. Not just killing people, but...I dunno, building something. Or thanking him for a good harvest. Things like that.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2006-07-31 02:29pm

Well, it's quaint that you feel that way, but that's not what Warhammer is about.

You work for the Imerpium of Man (be it farming, digging graves, or serving in the Guard), you learn to hate and fear all others, and then you die. There are certainly more noble exceptions, but then again there's certainly just as many in service to Chaos or alien cults, so it balances out.

And actually, 'killing people' is of course a Khornate thing.

Shadowtraveler · Post by **Shadowtraveler** » 2006-07-31 03:11pm

Utsanomiko wrote:Well, it's quaint that you feel that way, but that's not what Warhammer is about.

Yes, yes, yes. Dark future, no true good guys, all there is is war, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. Still, the fact remains that the Emperor is not a warp god in the convential sense and had his own personality prior to his "ascension".

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2006-07-31 03:16pm

And that has what to do with the nature of Chaos? If that's the sort of thoughts being generated about the Emperor, that's what going to tangibly manifest around him.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2006-07-31 03:18pm

Somebody needs to stop reading Dan Abnett...

Shadowtraveler · Post by **Shadowtraveler** » 2006-07-31 03:55pm

Utsanomiko wrote:And that has what to do with the nature of Chaos? If that's the sort of thoughts being generated about the Emperor, that's what going to tangibly manifest around him.

It means that he's not nearly as influenced by emotions as the Chaos Gods. The Chaos Gods are self-sustaining emotions given form and can only be what emotions are fed to them. The Emperor is a person, with his own thoughts and feelings, who is empowered, but not precisely influenced, by the prayers of all mankind.

Grasscutter · Post by **Grasscutter** » 2006-07-31 05:06pm

Shadowtraveler wrote:
Brother-Captain Gaius wrote:Hatred is the Emperor's greatest gift to Mankind.
I thought it was a unified human empire founded on the idea that people could work towards a common goal without breaking down to infighting.

And the Emperor formed this unified empire by ruthlessly destroying anybody who refused to accept his rule. Hatred and intolerance were core tenants of Imperial society from its inception.

Shadowtraveler wrote:Yes, yes, yes. Dark future, no true good guys, all there is is war, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. Still, the fact remains that the Emperor is not a warp god in the convential sense and had his own personality prior to his "ascension".

It doesn't matter if the Emperor is fueled by people's belief in him rather than their emotions. Imperial citizens are taught to believe that the Emperor is an intolerant, wrathful being. That's the image being beamed into the Warp, and it's having an effect on the Emperor.

Dig through some of the other Warhammer 40k threads on this topic, someone posted a novel or fluff excerpt showing the Emperor's psyche has already fractured and his multiple personalities are arguing with each other in the Warp. There's debate over how much of the Emperor's original personality will survive his transformation into a Warp God intact.

On a semi-serious note: the majority of the prayers and litanies we've seen the Ecclesiarchy teach involve human supremacy and crushing non-Human entities in the Emperor's name. I'm sure people praise the Emperor for good crops and other things that allow their continued survival, but I get the feeling prayer would go something along the lines of "Praise the Emperor for protecting my crops from Xeno/Heretic filth!" or "May these crops make me strong so that I might fight the Xeno/Heretic filth in the name of the Emperor!"