School Admins Demand Access to Students' Cellphones

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Darth Wong
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Post by Darth Wong »

Zero wrote:Since I was trying to argue about the effectiveness and necessity of such a rule, that actually wasn't really relevant to my argument at all. The administration may not have to justify its decisions to students, but that has no bearing on whether a given rule will be useful.
A totally worthless argument since it is impossible to predict how effective or useful that rule will be for every school. Even if it's not worthwhile at one school, it could be totally worthwhile at another. That's why it should be up to each school's administration to decide if it's worthwhile, not you sitting there at your computer.
Everything we're still arguing about just relates to a general misunderstanding.
Yes. Your misunderstanding of the fact that each school's staff has the right to decide if cell-phones are interfering with their ability to do their jobs. The very idea of deciding here on the usefulness and necessity of such bans for every school in existence is utterly idiotic.
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Zero
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Post by Zero »

Darth Wong wrote:A totally worthless argument since it is impossible to predict how effective or useful that rule will be for every school. Even if it's not worthwhile at one school, it could be totally worthwhile at another. That's why it should be up to each school's administration to decide if it's worthwhile, not you sitting there at your computer.


You really ought to have been generous enough to make this statement earlier, so I could concede the point instead of just saying that my oppinion didn't matter because I'm a minor. ;) It would have been quite helpful.

I concede that a forum on the internet is a crappy place for deciding how effective a given rule will be.
Darth Wong wrote:Yes. Your misunderstanding of the fact that each school's staff has the right to decide if cell-phones are interfering with their ability to do their jobs. The very idea of deciding here on the usefulness and necessity of such bans for every school in existence is utterly idiotic.
When did I say that they didn't have this right?

I'll concede that the rule could only be shown to be effective or ineffective at a given school, but the talk about the administration making its decisions still is irrelevant to a talk about whether a given rule will be effective or necessary.

You're trying to turn my point into "the school has to justify its shit to me," rather than what I was actually saying, which is "there's no justification of this rule," perhaps because you want it to fit into your pet peeves about children trying to claim more rights than actually exist, and you also seem to be making the mistake of believing that I want to claim the power of administrative authority simply because I contested the actual necessity of a rule.

Since I've pretty much conceded every real point related to the actual debate itself, there's not really anything more to say.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Zero wrote:You're trying to turn my point into "the school has to justify its shit to me," rather than what I was actually saying, which is "there's no justification of this rule,"
Except that the administration's justification was stated at the outset, dumb-shit. You just don't think it's good enough, so you pretend there's no justification at all. In other words, you DO think the justification has to meet your requirements, despite your claims to the contrary. Either that or you're just a fucking liar when you say there was no justification given. Which is it? Are you a liar about no justification being given, or are you a liar about not saying that the justification must meet YOUR standards instead of the school's standards?

I'm not even going to address the Appeal to Motive bullshit.
Last edited by Darth Wong on 2006-07-13 10:28am, edited 1 time in total.
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"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
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Zero
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Post by Zero »

Darth Wong wrote:
Zero wrote:You're trying to turn my point into "the school has to justify its shit to me," rather than what I was actually saying, which is "there's no justification of this rule,"
Except that the administration's justification was stated at the outset, dumb-shit. You just don't think it's good enough, so you pretend there's no justification at all. In other words, you DO think the justification has to meet your requirements, despite your claims to the contrary. Either that or you're just a fucking liar when you say there was no justification given. Which is it? Are you a liar about no justification being given, or are you a liar about not saying that the justification must meet YOUR standards instead of the school's standards?
I think I missed the relevant posts, because I never saw any justification for it at all. Can you perhaps quote it for me?
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Post by Darth Wong »

Zero wrote:I think I missed the relevant posts, because I never saw any justification for it at all. Can you perhaps quote it for me?
DISRUPTIVE. How many fucking times did you see that word, asshole? You're just being a fucking troll now.
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"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

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Post by Zero »

Darth Wong wrote:
Zero wrote:I think I missed the relevant posts, because I never saw any justification for it at all. Can you perhaps quote it for me?
DISRUPTIVE. How many fucking times did you see that word, asshole? You're just being a fucking troll now.
One word isn't a justification, but I've already conceded that it could be disruptive if student's don't obey (to that, I mean a rule stating that cell phones on campus are okay, they just have to be off and in their lockers), so there's nothing left to debate.

I've already concede. I concede.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Zero wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:
Zero wrote:I think I missed the relevant posts, because I never saw any justification for it at all. Can you perhaps quote it for me?
DISRUPTIVE. How many fucking times did you see that word, asshole? You're just being a fucking troll now.
One word isn't a justification
The word was used in complete sentences in the previous posts you asked about, you pedantic little shit. It doesn't even matter exactly WHY it's disruptive; the school only needs to feel that it's disruptive, and that's a justification. The fact that you reject it without extra explanations does not mean it does not exist. Just saying that it's disruptive to the learning environment is a justification.
Last edited by Darth Wong on 2006-07-13 10:35am, edited 1 time in total.
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"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
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Zero
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Post by Zero »

Darth Wong wrote:
Zero wrote:
Darth Wong wrote: DISRUPTIVE. How many fucking times did you see that word, asshole? You're just being a fucking troll now.
One word isn't a justification
The word was used in complete sentences in the previous posts you asked about, you pedantic little shit. It doesn't even matter exactly WHY it's disruptive; the school only needs to feel that it's disruptive, and that's a justification. The fact that you reject it does not mean it does not exist.
When it was used by Lagmonster, I conceded. I've already conceded.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Zero wrote:When it was used by Lagmonster, I conceded. I've already conceded.
I know that, I'd just like to know why you say incredibly stupid things like "I saw no justification" when you know perfectly well that you did.
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"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

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Post by Zero »

Darth Wong wrote:
Zero wrote:When it was used by Lagmonster, I conceded. I've already conceded.
I know that, I'd just like to know why you say incredibly stupid things like "I saw no justification" when you know perfectly well that you did.
I didn't. My actions when confronted by Lagmonster's statement that there's a potential for abuse ought to be an indicator of this. If I misread the thread, I'm sorry. I still don't actually know what specific posts you're talking about, but I'll look over the thread again, even though I don't see why it matters, since I already conceded.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Oh for fuck's sake, you really are dense, aren't you? Read RedImperator's post on the first page. In his experience as a teacher, cell-phones are a disruption. There, done. That's a justification. The fact that you initially felt it wasn't adequate does not mean it was never stated at all.
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"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
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Post by Zero »

Darth Wong wrote:Oh for fuck's sake, you really are dense, aren't you? Read RedImperator's post on the first page. In his experience as a teacher, cell-phones are a disruption. There, done. That's a justification. The fact that you initially felt it wasn't adequate does not mean it was never stated at all.
Let's look at this post, then.
RedImperator wrote:Frankly, as a teacher, I'm perfectly happy with a "no cell phones on school grounds" policy, or, at the very least, a policy requiring them to be turned off and stored in the student's locker until dismissal. They're nothing but disruptions 99% of the time.
He's the one who first mentioned the notion of a policy requiring phones to be turned off and stored in a locker until students are dismissed. Until someone mentioned that the potential for abuse existed if phones were to be allowed on school grounds at all, nobody mentioned why a policy requiring cell phones to be kept in the student's locker was actually any different in effect than a rule that banned them altogether. I contested the necessity of a rule banning them altogether because it was in my head at the time that a rule simply requiring the phone to be turned off in a locker would be just as effective. I conceded this point when Lagmonster brought up the potential for abuse.
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But now, you shall witnesss ... its dismemberment!

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