Noise on starships

[Darth Wong]

We all know that there's some kind of reactor or engine in the ship that makes this low-level rumbling sound throughout the ship. But doesn't it stand to reason that this noise should be louder as you approach the source? Shouldn't people be wearing ear protection in the engineering section? I've spent enough years in factories and power plants to know that when you get close to the business end of the plant, it's fucking loud. And if it wasn't, then why the hell would the noise be audible throughout the entire ship?

Also, pursuant to the previous point, shouldn't the engineering crew wear different uniforms than the officers? And I'm not just talking about different colours; I'm talking about entirely different uniforms, including things like radiation protection, safety boots, etc. We actually saw this in ST2 (bless Nicholas Meyer for being the only person who could see the Enterprise as an actual navy vessel), but in TNG, it was gold pajamas versus red ones. Whoopie shit.

[Base Delta Zero]

Maybe the noise is coming from the plasma conduits or some other system rather than the engine itself? I'll agree that it's odd that there's relatively little noise in the engine room itself.

As for the uniforms, there's already a force field between the reactor and everything else, so they might just think they don't need protection - after all, if there is a reactor breach the ship will be vaporized in milliseconds, so...

[Wicked Pilot]

I've always chalked it up to ventilation systems making the noises.


And about the uniforms, what bothers me is why Feds and others don't wear survival suits when going into combat. If there's an explosive decompression it'd be pretty nice to have a built in altimeter seal it up (by putting down a helmet vizor for instance) when the pressure drops off to a predetermined amount. Hell if you get blown out into open space having an attached air supply, locator beacon, and radiation sheliding would increase you chances of successful recovery many times over compared to standard issue pajamas.

[Cao Cao]

As for the uniforms, there's already a force field between the reactor and everything else, so they might just think they don't need protection - after all, if there is a reactor breach the ship will be vaporized in milliseconds, so...

There have been numerous times when the warp core has expelled various toxic gasses, there have been leaks, forcefield failures minor breaches, explosions, etc. etc. in engineering without the destruction of the ship. So it would certainly be safer for the engineering crew to wear protective gear.

EDIT: Also, correct me if I'm wrong but I recall instances of children waltzing into engineering in TNG (regardless of the fact that there shouldn't be kids on board at all, of course). While they're shooed away it's funny how the area is so unrestricted that a child can approach the ship's power core.

[Uraniun235]

The engineering protection suits were introduced in The Motion Picture, although I believe The Wrath of Khan showed everyone on the engineering crew wearing them whereas TMP still had Scott and a few others wearing the normal duty uniform.

We saw a protection suit in TOS Balance of Terror as well, although I suspect that that was intended to be a firefighter/damage control person.

And about the uniforms, what bothers me is why Feds and others don't wear survival suits when going into combat. If there's an explosive decompression it'd be pretty nice to have a built in altimeter seal it up (by putting down a helmet vizor for instance) when the pressure drops off to a predetermined amount. Hell if you get blown out into open space having an attached air supply, locator beacon, and radiation sheliding would increase you chances of successful recovery many times over compared to standard issue pajamas.

Survival suits would probably cost a fair chunk of change - in a franchise where they borrowed uniforms from DS9 for use in Generations, uniforms which didn't even fit the actors correctly.

EDIT: Also, correct me if I'm wrong but I recall instances of children waltzing into engineering in TNG (regardless of the fact that there shouldn't be kids on board at all, of course). While they're shooed away it's funny how the area is so unrestricted that a child can approach the ship's power core.

It's pretty obvious that there is no security in the Ent-D engineering section whatsoever.

[Gil Hamilton]

The Federation doesn't have survival gear like radiation suits in TNG and beyond.

Remember the TNG "Lessons" episode? When they were trying to save their little station from a firestorm and were setting up deflectors on the surface? They lost eight crew members and nearly lost a bunch more because they couldn't transport them out due to interference and got lucky some managed to hole up long enough to be beamed out. But why so many casualties? Because they beamed all their crews down in regular pajama uniforms to set up equipment when a freaking firestorm is about hit. It wasn't even that hot a fire storm, the ambient temperature, according to Geordi was 200 degrees C. I've personally been in the presence of entry suits designed to withstand over 800 degree C ambient temperature and up to 1500 degree C radiative; they have them for the Big Fucking Walk-in Kilns I saw on a tour. Granted it stands up to its ambient temp limit for short durations and you wouldn't want to hang out in a really hot spot for hours, of course. However, survival gear designed to withstand lethal ambient temperatures like in "Lessons" not only exist but are only triumphs of engineering in the materials they are made out of; beyond that, it's a big baggy full body suit with a self contained breathing apparatus thrown into the mix.

I'm willing to grant that the gauntlets on the suits are about as easy to work in as a modern space suits gauntlets (same basic design, in fact), but if they had even half way good modern hostile environment suits, even if they couldn't get beamed up they could have just taken cover and rode out the fire storm. Given how rocky the planets surface was and they freakin' showed the colony had a ridge between it and the storm front, finding a good place to hunker down and wait for rescue wouldn't have been that rough.

[Wicked Pilot]

Survival suits would probably cost a fair chunk of change - in a franchise where they borrowed uniforms from DS9 for use in Generations, uniforms which didn't even fit the actors correctly.

Cost would have been a factor in TOS and maybe early TNG, but beyond that I can't believe a lack of money as opposed to a lack of creativity is the culprit. If you can afford the multiple Klingon recycled coke can uniforms, all that shit the Borg wear, and both of 7 of 9's breast, then damnit you can afford some exposure suits.

[Gil Hamilton]

Not only that but they have total body coverage costumes in StarTrek that they easily could have modified or made more of. Like the Breen Costume or the dudes who were hunting the Tosk in the one early DS9 episode. Such costumery isn't that hard.

[Stofsk]

Survival suits would probably cost a fair chunk of change - in a franchise where they borrowed uniforms from DS9 for use in Generations, uniforms which didn't even fit the actors correctly.

I think that's more of a case of the budget being misspent rather than not available. Stewart, Spiner and Burton in particular commanded some heavy duty paychecks.

[RedImperator]

It would have cost them next to nothing to at least put the engineering personnel in some kind of high visibility jumpsuit and called it fireproof. You can make them out of the same cloth you're using for the regular uniforms, just dye it flourescent orange. Really, there's no excuse.

[Sonnenburg]

It would have cost them next to nothing to at least put the engineering personnel in some kind of high visibility jumpsuit and called it fireproof. You can make them out of the same cloth you're using for the regular uniforms, just dye it flourescent orange. Really, there's no excuse.

That's a really good point. It's the too proud to whitewash philosophy: we're Star Trek, not some rinky-dink cheap cable show, so we won't reduce ourselves to spending two hundred bucks at Fleet Farm to whip up some costumes like those other shows would. Of course, we don't actually have the budge for that, so we'll simply do nothing and pretend it's not really a problem.

Of course, sometimes they did bite the bullet. Scorpion costs a pile of money, so that when it comes time for 7 of 9 to heal all they can do is put duct tape on her and call it magical names.

[Darth Wong]

I guess I and the Star Trek writers just have very different views on what an engine room should look like. Here's what their idea of the engine room looks like:

Geordi Laforge stepped out of the turbolift and into the Engineering section. He walked on the soft carpeted floor until he was standing next to the warp core. It was making a relaxing, soft humming sound, and he could see the light-blue reaction happening only a few feet away, through its conveniently transparent walls.

"OK Ensign, looks like we have to scan the warp core vessel for microfractures. Do you think you're up to it?"

"Yes sir." Ensign Jamieson beamed brightly. He was always eager to impress his superior officers.

"OK then, get to work. Report back to me when you're done." Geordi handed him a tricorder and a PADD.

"Yes sir." Ensign Jamieson replied smartly, then turned on his heels and began entering data into his PADD. This was going to be a good day.

And this is what my idea of an engine room looks like:

Ensign Jamieson stepped out of the turbolift and into the Engineering section. He passed the Control room where the techs were monitoring every conceivable operating parameter of the warp core, under the suffocating but competent watch of the Chief Engineer, Geordi Laforge.

"Must be nice", he thought to himself. The Control room was such a peaceful environment, filled with blinking displays and ordered instrumentation. But he didn't rate the Control room quite yet, so he kept going, until he reached Q1: the first quarantine checkpoint. He walked into the scanning booth, putting his feet on the clearly marked yellow footprint markers on the gleaming metal floor plate.

"Sir, please extend your arms and put your hands into the receptacles" said the crewman. Jamieson knew the drill. He put his hands into the scanning receptacles where they would receive an even more thorough detail scanning than the rest of his body. Every possible contaminant would be logged, as would any sign of irradiation. This check was performed every day, every time someone entered or left the engine room. The light above his head glowed green, and a familiar computer voice said: "All Clear."

"Sir, you are cleared to proceed."

Jamieson nodded and continued into the locker room, where he got out his gear. He still remembered the instructions they'd given him on the first day he worked with a live warp core: check every seal, inspect every part. He sealed his suit, snapped his helmet onto the locking ring, and activated his helmet HUD displays. Oxygen, nitrogen, ionizing radiation detectors, vital sign monitor, all on-line. He pushed the button on his arm-mounted control pad and a series of green lights flashed inside his helmet: the auto-diagnostic checked out OK. He could barely hear the heavy clomp of his boots as he walked toward Q2: the second quarantine checkpoint.

"Sir, please extend your arms and put your hands into the receptacles" said the second crewman, in almost exactly the same inflection as the first.

The second scan always took longer, but Jamieson was in no hurry. One always had a sense of trepidation when entering the engine room. If the suit and the two quarantine checkpoints didn't make the gravity of the situation clear enough, the heavy doors on the airlock ahead made things perfectly clear. The light above his head flashed green, and he heard that droning computer voice again. "All Clear."

"Sir, you are cleared to proceed." the crewman's voice sounded in his helmet speakers.

"You sure you don't want to take my place?"

"Only if you'll take my place when I visit my mother-in-law next month, sir." the crewman responded.

"Fuck that," Jamieson grunted. "I've seen your mother-in-law." He marched into the airlock and waited for the secondary door to close behind him. He stood like a statue, looking forward at the heavy duranium primary blast door. The red alarm light over the blast door began to flash, and the two foot thick metal door ponderously rotated on its massive hinges until there was an opening just wide enough for him to pass. He could feel the powerful rumbling in the deckplates now, rattling his teeth.

He moved inside. Even with the active cooling systems and radiation shielding systems in place, the engine room was hot. Hot enough to explain why they called it the Hellhole. But the cooling systems in his suit were working properly, and the noise cancellation systems in his helmet kept the thunderous roar of the immensely powerful reactor down to a merely irritating level, as opposed to a deafening one.

"All right Jamieson", the speaker in his helmet crackled to life. It was Laforge's voice. "I don't think I need to explain to you that if we can't track down and seal that microfracture, we are in some serious shit. Start your scan with the primary containment vessel."

"Yes sir" Jamieson responded. He brought his microfracture scanner up to eye level, and began to work. This was going to be a long day.

Not at all the same.

[Gil Hamilton]

That's not right at all. At no point did Geordi refer to him by his first name, give Ensign Jamieson a hearty pat on the shoulder to show that he had confidence in his ability to do menial tasks, or ask him how his date to the dolphin tank with Lieutenant Ebanez went in the first one.

[Stile]

Nope, not realistic. Not at all....
He doesn't have every person from his immediate supervisor to the Captain breathing over his shoulder asking for status reports every five minutes...

[Uraniun235]

Survival suits would probably cost a fair chunk of change - in a franchise where they borrowed uniforms from DS9 for use in Generations, uniforms which didn't even fit the actors correctly.

I think that's more of a case of the budget being misspent rather than not available. Stewart, Spiner and Burton in particular commanded some heavy duty paychecks.

They could have gotten away with ditching Burton, but the producers would have been lynched if they'd lost Stewart or Spiner. There is a point at which the realities of business override creative integrity.

Although, I personally wonder if the bullshit union rules which permeate Hollywood could have had anything to do with the seemingly perpetual lack of funds at Star Trek.

[RedImperator]

It would have cost them next to nothing to at least put the engineering personnel in some kind of high visibility jumpsuit and called it fireproof. You can make them out of the same cloth you're using for the regular uniforms, just dye it flourescent orange. Really, there's no excuse.

That's a really good point. It's the too proud to whitewash philosophy: we're Star Trek, not some rinky-dink cheap cable show, so we won't reduce ourselves to spending two hundred bucks at Fleet Farm to whip up some costumes like those other shows would. Of course, we don't actually have the budge for that, so we'll simply do nothing and pretend it's not really a problem.

Of course, sometimes they did bite the bullet. Scorpion costs a pile of money, so that when it comes time for 7 of 9 to heal all they can do is put duct tape on her and call it magical names.

They probably never would have done that because it would have looked too blue-collar. "What? Have our cream of the crop of humanity engineers dressed like oil refinery workers? Heavens no." On Trek, it's either some ridiculous costume which would be totally impractical in real life that costs a fortune to make, or the pajamas.

Of course, in TNG, engineers never got dirty either. Anyone who's ever worked with machines ever in his entire life could tell you what nonsense that it. The only time I recall anyone ever getting dirty in the engine room was when Ensign Whatsherface spilled her hot cocoa on Captain Picard.

[Darth Wong]

I just realized that my vision of a starship engine room, while more realistic and far more evocative of the power and danger therein, would not have allowed a lot of the dumbshit plot developments that the writers favoured, like a pair of Klingons marching into the engine room and threatening to destroy the entire ship. Maybe such an engine room might have actually made the writers work for a living.

[Count Dooku]

Could the noise be the artificial gravity units? Seeing as the noise is relatively uniform around the entire ship, that would make sense.

For whatever reason, I find it the background noise to make TNG more enjoyable. It's strange watching a show, and not hear anything. That little background hum seemed to add something - I just don't know what...

[Darth Wong]

Could the noise be the artificial gravity units? Seeing as the noise is relatively uniform around the entire ship, that would make sense.

Then why does Picard make a point of saying that he can feel a misalignment in the nacelles through the deckplate vibrations? It's pretty obvious that the vibration is supposed to come from the engines, so it should be much louder in the engine room than anywhere else.

For whatever reason, I find it the background noise to make TNG more enjoyable. It's strange watching a show, and not hear anything. That little background hum seemed to add something - I just don't know what...

I don't have a problem with the background noise. What I have a problem with is the fact that it's no louder when you're 10 feet from the warp core than when you're 500 feet from the warp core.

[vivftp]

Well I would note in The Drumhead and Starship Mine the warp core was offline during pretty much all of both episodes and we still heard the low rumbling in the background at all times. So it's definately not the core itself doing that.

[Darth Wong]

Well I would note in The Drumhead and Starship Mine the warp core was offline during pretty much all of both episodes and we still heard the low rumbling in the background at all times. So it's definately not the core itself doing that.

Either that or it's just sloppy sound editing, given Picard's comment. I suppose one could rationalize it by saying that the impulse reactor is still running, and that would be a noisy fucker too.

Interesting that they've never bothered showing the impulse reactor onscreen, on (to the best of my knowledge) any of the numerous Trek series.

[Count Dooku]

Could the noise be the artificial gravity units? Seeing as the noise is relatively uniform around the entire ship, that would make sense.

Then why does Picard make a point of saying that he can feel a misalignment in the nacelles through the deckplate vibrations? It's pretty obvious that the vibration is supposed to come from the engines, so it should be much louder in the engine room than anywhere else.

For whatever reason, I find it the background noise to make TNG more enjoyable. It's strange watching a show, and not hear anything. That little background hum seemed to add something - I just don't know what...

I don't have a problem with the background noise. What I have a problem with is the fact that it's no louder when you're 10 feet from the warp core than when you're 500 feet from the warp core.

Bah, that can't be explained away easily. I could try and pull something out of my ass, but I don't think anyone would like the way it looked (or smelled), but here it goes: perhaps the nacells are, in some way, connected to the deck plates? And when the nacells are out of alignment, not enough, or too much power is routed to the deck plates? My knowledge of treknology isn't exactly stellar, so I don't think that even makes sense...

The warp core seems to have a different sound that the rest of the ship's background noise though. The warp core has a pulsing sound, while the background noise is constant.

[vivftp]

Either that or it's just sloppy sound editing, given Picard's comment. I suppose one could rationalize it by saying that the impulse reactor is still running, and that would be a noisy fucker too.

Interesting that they've never bothered showing the impulse reactor onscreen, on (to the best of my knowledge) any of the numerous Trek series.

Hmm... impulse reactors. Can anyone think of an episode when the impulse reactors were stated to be completely knocked offline?

I just checked Disaster, and even with nearly everything knocked offline we still have that constant hum in the background.

I also checked Unification pt. 1 when Riker ordered the ship to appear adrift in the starship graveyard. He ordered Geordi to shut down the engines and all systems except sensors and life support. Naturally all lights on the ship went off (from an outside view), including those on the nacelles. Oddly enough though, the lights on the bridge were at usual brightness... maybe tinted windows? Anyways, we still had the same humming in the background.


I think I recall an episode where there was no hum, but damned if I can recall which one it is.


EDIT.

To add to the Disaster bit above, O'Brian did note that it appeared they still had impulse power, but not much else.

[RThurmont]

I don't have a problem with the background noise.

I actually do. Today, we have noise-cancelling technology (in fact, I think it has been on the market since 1997 or so), yet in the 24th century, apparently they've lost that capability. Not using noise-cancelling technology in areas where you might actually benefit from hearing irregularities (such as engineering) might make sense, but having the dull roar of the main reactor audible in areas such as crew quarters and Sickbay is absolutely retarded. It's a fairly constant sound, so even using the most primitive noise-cancelling technology availible, it should be feasible to eliminate it.

That said, this could also be the answer as to why the sound doesn't vary depending on your proximity to the reactor: perhaps Engineering uses some form of partial noise-cancellation/deadening technology, so that personell can still hear what is going on, albeit without being defeaned.

[vivftp]

I actually do. Today, we have noise-cancelling technology (in fact, I think it has been on the market since 1997 or so), yet in the 24th century, apparently they've lost that capability. Not using noise-cancelling technology in areas where you might actually benefit from hearing irregularities (such as engineering) might make sense, but having the dull roar of the main reactor audible in areas such as crew quarters and Sickbay is absolutely retarded. It's a fairly constant sound, so even using the most primitive noise-cancelling technology availible, it should be feasible to eliminate it.

I think it's possible for a person to get noise-cancelling technology installed in their quarters if it really bugs them. For instance in one DS9 episode when Odo was tearing up his quarters over the thought of losing Kira, Quarks quarters were right below his. I can't immediately recall which episode, but IIRC Quark even noted that he could always hear Odo morphing about his quarters. Later on after Quark helps him out a bit, Odo states that he's having soundproofing installed in his quarters.

Granted a Bajoran space station is different than a Federation starship, but if this were truly a problem for a crew member, I'm sure either a visit to the ships councellor or maybe even the doctor could get them approval for soundproofing.

That said, this could also be the answer as to why the sound doesn't vary depending on your proximity to the reactor: perhaps Engineering uses some form of partial noise-cancellation/deadening technology, so that personell can still hear what is going on, albeit without being defeaned.

Well as noted above, the sound doesn't appear to be comming from Engineering. The warp core has its own pulsating sound it makes, but that appears to be seperate from the background noise of the ship.