Warhammer 40k Canon

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Kadaeux
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Warhammer 40k Canon

Post by Kadaeux » 2006-03-31 07:19am

Ok I need to know, which is more canon with Warhammer 40k. The writers or imagery, models... I ask because of the Boltgun, the team says it's caseless but all Bolter models have ejection slots or even shell casings on the base while the imagery always depicts them spewing out shell casings.

Do the writers count as "Authors Intent"

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Re: Warhammer 40k Canon

Post by Lost Soal » 2006-03-31 07:48am

Kadaeux wrote:Ok I need to know, which is more canon with Warhammer 40k. The writers or imagery, models... I ask because of the Boltgun, the team says it's caseless but all Bolter models have ejection slots or even shell casings on the base while the imagery always depicts them spewing out shell casings.

Do the writers count as "Authors Intent"
Bolters are caseless. The drawings of casing comeing out were done because they "looked cool". The novels still make them caseless
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Post by 18-Till-I-Die » 2006-03-31 08:46am

Actually i believe i heard that those are some kind of charges, the actual round is caseless but that is somekind of charge or something that ignites the rocket motor. Basically its like, if i understand it, a kind of discarding-sabot round like from a tank.
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Post by Elheru Aran » 2006-03-31 09:02am

Actually, my theory is that there is at least *some* kind of case for the bolter shell. This casing contains a small charge that propels the initial round before the rocket ignites. The MBA GyroJet rocket-gun back in the 70s was rocket-propelled, but the problem was its initial speed was very slow; you could literally catch the rounds as they exited the muzzle. Range was also very poor. I wouldn't expect it to be any different with a bolter, hence a small charge to fire the round and get it up to speed before the rocket ignites.

As to what's canon; IIRC, the 'fluff' overrides game mechanics and art. The latest edition overrides older editions. Not sure how the CCG they had a few years back ranks, though, or where the novels/artwork books come in.
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Post by white_rabbit » 2006-03-31 09:12am

At the moment the only official statements that have been made on the subject of "canon" appear to be that the "game" is a set of rules to allow people to play a "game" set in the 40k universe, the Novels/background are the more accurate representation, with the obvious bias of character viewpoints.

Anyone who tells you otherwise is talking bollocks. You can infer a lot, and rationalise a lot, but most people can't be neutral about it. On this board, spacebattles, *shrug* everywhere, you'll find people who bitch and moan, usually about how they don't like this authors style, blah blah blah, so its not "accurate"

If you want to be accurate, you ignore that sort of person, and their approach.

The correct answer to your question concerning bolters is.

" Bolters can be both, what do you want them to be ? "

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Post by loomer » 2006-03-31 10:16am

Eh, Bolters might just have two types of rounds, older ones might use shells, and after all, Space Marines love old stuff. Or it could be some form of boosting charge as has been suggested
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Post by NecronLord » 2006-03-31 10:50am

It vaires. Chances are the port is usually used for clearing the chamber and inserting special ammunition.
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Post by Aaron » 2006-03-31 11:01am

Just to build on what NecronLord said, wouldn't a bolter need an ejection port to clear a dud round?
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Post by Azazal » 2006-03-31 11:06am

Cpl Kendall wrote:Just to build on what NecronLord said, wouldn't a bolter need an ejection port to clear a dud round?
Well looking at the current plastic bolters, they have a port on each side
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Post by Aaron » 2006-03-31 11:32am

Azazal wrote: Well looking at the current plastic bolters, they have a port on each side
That could simply be to accomadate left and right hand users.
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Post by Haminal10 » 2006-03-31 11:37am

Cpl Kendall wrote:
Azazal wrote: Well looking at the current plastic bolters, they have a port on each side
That could simply be to accomadate left and right hand users.
Space Marines are all ambidextrous, so having a port on both sides makes sense.
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Post by Aaron » 2006-03-31 11:38am

Damn lack of edit: Several modern assualt rifles have this feature. Although I believe it requires swapping some parts in the reciver.
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Post by Aaron » 2006-03-31 11:39am

Haminal10 wrote:
Space Marines are all ambidextrous, so having a port on both sides makes sense.
They are? Well learn somethig new everyday. :D
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Post by Elheru Aran » 2006-03-31 11:41am

Haminal10 wrote:
Cpl Kendall wrote:
Azazal wrote: Well looking at the current plastic bolters, they have a port on each side
That could simply be to accomadate left and right hand users.
Space Marines are all ambidextrous, so having a port on both sides makes sense.
Ah, no, they're not, or at least I've read nothing that indicates they are. They have the same degree of handed-ness as regular humans. In fact, if we go by the figures, they're primarily right-handed... note the Devastator squads. All their heavy weapons are right-handed. Assault squads and those armed with a close-combat weapon are the exception, with a boltpistol in left hand, but that's because the close-combat weapon is what they primarily use.
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Post by NecronLord » 2006-03-31 12:15pm

Inquisitor rulebook, Page 103

"Special Abilities: All Space Marines have the following special abilities: Ambidextrous; Nerves of steel; Spit acid."
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Post by Elheru Aran » 2006-03-31 12:18pm

NecronLord wrote:Inquisitor rulebook, Page 103

"Special Abilities: All Space Marines have the following special abilities: Ambidextrous; Nerves of steel; Spit acid."
It *would* be the one I haven't read yet. My bad, then... however, they do seem to use right hand out of preference, so...
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Post by NecronLord » 2006-03-31 12:20pm

Chances are their gear was designed in the Golden Age, when gravitic-repulsors (like the deathwatch ones) were common enough to let ordinary Joes use them, and as ordinary Joes are mostly right handed...
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Post by Lancer » 2006-03-31 12:24pm

NecronLord wrote:Inquisitor rulebook, Page 103

"Special Abilities: All Space Marines have the following special abilities: Ambidextrous; Nerves of steel; Spit acid."
Taken with a grain of salt; it's fluff that the geneseed of the Imperial Fists and descendant chapters is flat-out imcompatible with the Betcher's gland.

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Post by The Yosemite Bear » 2006-03-31 12:33pm

Cpl Kendall wrote:
Azazal wrote: Well looking at the current plastic bolters, they have a port on each side
That could simply be to accomadate left and right hand users.
yes it has a sinsiter/dexter firing switch. also one needs to vent heat gasses even if it is caseless.
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Post by Spanky The Dolphin » 2006-03-31 12:36pm

Elheru Aran wrote:
Haminal10 wrote:
Cpl Kendall wrote: That could simply be to accomadate left and right hand users.
Space Marines are all ambidextrous, so having a port on both sides makes sense.
Ah, no, they're not, or at least I've read nothing that indicates they are. They have the same degree of handed-ness as regular humans. In fact, if we go by the figures, they're primarily right-handed... note the Devastator squads. All their heavy weapons are right-handed. Assault squads and those armed with a close-combat weapon are the exception, with a boltpistol in left hand, but that's because the close-combat weapon is what they primarily use.
Besides, left-handers can be forced into right-handedness, just like it's been done in the 20th Century.
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Post by Sea Skimmer » 2006-03-31 12:59pm

18-Till-I-Die wrote:Actually i believe i heard that those are some kind of charges, the actual round is caseless but that is somekind of charge or something that ignites the rocket motor.
That should only require a small electrical impulse or a firing pin hitting a primer
Basically its like, if i understand it, a kind of discarding-sabot round like from a tank.

Hmm you'll have the elaborate your comparison on that one. The sabot goes out the barrel along with the projectile. However there are several weapons such as the German/US 120mm tank cannon which use ammo with a largely combustible cartridge case, only the base is brass. The base serves to seal the firing chamber and makes the ammo sturdier
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Post by Azazal » 2006-03-31 01:06pm

As for caseless - well there is this a "genuine" bolter round pendent
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Post by Brother-Captain Gaius » 2006-03-31 05:29pm

Matt Huang wrote:Taken with a grain of salt; it's fluff that the geneseed of the Imperial Fists and descendant chapters is flat-out imcompatible with the Betcher's gland.
Nitpick: The Dorn geneseed simply does not have the zygotes for Betcher's Gland (a gland that enables Marines to spit a highly corrosive blind-on-contact poison, for those who don't know).
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Post by LeftWingExtremist » 2006-03-31 06:17pm

What I hear is that most bolters use a small charge to actually send the bolt on its way. Very similar to the TOW launcher.
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Post by Currald » 2006-03-31 10:42pm

While most descriptions of the bolter state that it is caseless, there are many, many, many mentions of bolter casings. In the Dark Future there is Only Ambiguity and Paradox.
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