Moderator: NecronLord
Dwahh?NecronLord wrote:I have serious doubts about this supposed numerical advantage of the Tau's. The Democles Gulf Crusade was based around seven IoM capital ships, and yet the Tau didn't simply swamp that with numbers.
12 capital ships actually, although the basic point remains the same.NecronLord wrote:I have serious doubts about this supposed numerical advantage of the Tau's. The Democles Gulf Crusade was based around seven IoM capital ships, and yet the Tau didn't simply swamp that with numbers.
Wrong. The Democles Gulf Crusade is a big thing in Tau history, it's after O'Shova dealt with the orks, and before they had contact with the Tyranids. It is how the Tau first learnt "the true scale and bitterness of a galaxy they had previously thought to be theirs for the taking."TTMSHU wrote:Dwahh?
You'd really expect the Tau to dump all of thier resources at 7 IoM ships when a Tyranid/Ork invasion is at their door...
no... they had bigger fish to fry.
well... if it were their "first taste" then maybe they underestimated the IoM's abilites and also probably because IoM ships travel 5 times faster, they could only wait for an attack.NecronLord wrote:Wrong. The Democles Gulf Crusade is a big thing in Tau history, it's after O'Shova dealt with the orks, and before they had contact with the Tyranids. It is how the Tau first learnt "the true scale and bitterness of a galaxy they had previously thought to be theirs for the taking."TTMSHU wrote:Dwahh?
You'd really expect the Tau to dump all of thier resources at 7 IoM ships when a Tyranid/Ork invasion is at their door...
no... they had bigger fish to fry.
what about the dozen or so main/secondary planets?NecronLord wrote:Also, I will add that there are many Tau worlds that are so sparsely populated they'd make the goa'uld proud. Many of their colonies are 10-10,000 persons strong.
Unknown. I do believe that the book "Kill Team" provides an upper limit on a major Sept (system) population as being less than one hive city's worth, but a 'friend' of mine never returned that book. $%&£&*"!TTMSHU wrote:what about the dozen or so main/secondary planets?
hmm..... maybe the tau codex will shed some light..NecronLord wrote:Unknown. I do believe that the book "Kill Team" provides an upper limit on a major Sept (system) population as being less than one hive city's worth, but a 'friend' of mine never returned that book. $%&£&*"!TTMSHU wrote:what about the dozen or so main/secondary planets?
I remember Weber said something about 100g acceleration, but I cannot find the quote.ggs wrote:The orbital forts which they have around in those areas can hold off Honorverse fleets that are stupid enough to come within range of the forts. They cant exactly move much, but they represent an awesome amount of firepower.
I wouldn't be quite so confident about the missile ripple you are mentioning. The Honorverse uses a "flooding" system - overwhelming a target with missiles (including electronic warfare missiles) for a reason. The Manties CM do have some AI (stupid, but it does have sensors, etc...) so it isn't fully controlled by the ship post launch.Coalition wrote: For firepower, the AI guided missiles could use the Triple-ripple style of attacking. Each missile is a 60 gigaton warhead (each volley of missiles is 10 missiles, damage per volley is 600 gigatons). So the first missile comes into range, and detects anti-missile fire. It detonates, blinding the counter missiles. The next one detonates afterwards, repeating, and keeping the Manty ship blind.
The 9th or 10th missile gets in range, and lets loose the 60 gigaton warhead at point blank range.
Unfortunately, those missiles can only be fired at one volley per fifteen minutes, there will be a massive first wave, then the Tau will rotate shields in and out of the front line, to keep their shields strong.
The Manties will be able to dodge away from the Tau, most likely, but if the Tau can spot the shipyards, they will simply close and engage them.
That would be correct: the actual numbers are 1 billion in the Hive City, and thirteen such cities on Kage's homeworld.NecronLord wrote:Unknown. I do believe that the book "Kill Team" provides an upper limit on a major Sept (system) population as being less than one hive city's worth, but a 'friend' of mine never returned that book. $%&£&*"!
Acctually, since it's 10 missiles per point of damage, only small escorts would fire volleys as small as 10, and they would probably gang up for a synchronized volley from multiple ships.Jalinth wrote: If you are only talking about a 10 missile set coming, the Manties will eat it for lunch. All of the ships of the wall (plus any escorts) can direct CM and (especially) point defense fire for the last 100K km. PD fire is cheap - they can blind-fire.
I think the Tau have better tactics than this.
60-80 missiles is pretty much standard fare for a ship of the wall. But per volley also represents 15 minutes worth of reloads, or that many missiles fired over 15 minutes. That's about half Honorverse ROF.Annatar Giftbringer wrote:Acctually, since it's 10 missiles per point of damage, only small escorts would fire volleys as small as 10, and they would probably gang up for a synchronized volley from multiple ships.Jalinth wrote: If you are only talking about a 10 missile set coming, the Manties will eat it for lunch. All of the ships of the wall (plus any escorts) can direct CM and (especially) point defense fire for the last 100K km. PD fire is cheap - they can blind-fire.
I think the Tau have better tactics than this.
The larger cruisers and battleships would fire 60 to 80 missiles per volley, and if it's a Commerce Protection Fleet more or less every ship would be armed with missiles, meaning lots of huge swarms.
We know ships in the 40k universe aren't limited to firing every 15 minutes. It seems more like the exception than the rule, or more specifically, a game mechanic/fluff retardation.Nephtys wrote:Annatar Giftbringer wrote:60-80 missiles is pretty much standard fare for a ship of the wall. But per volley also represents 15 minutes worth of reloads, or that many missiles fired over 15 minutes. That's about half Honorverse ROF.
But we do know that from the Democles crusade, the Tau began a large navy building initiative producing modern dedicated warships. The Commerce Protection Fleet for example.NecronLord wrote:I have serious doubts about this supposed numerical advantage of the Tau's. The Democles Gulf Crusade was based around seven IoM capital ships, and yet the Tau didn't simply swamp that with numbers.
It's a game mechanic, but it should be somewhat representative of the general effects of 15 minutes, as we don't seem to have any overriding source. So perhaps the reload time is not exactly 15 minutes between volleys... instead, that is how many missiles gets out in 15 minutes of continuous firing perhaps?Akaramu Shinja wrote:Nephtys wrote:We know ships in the 40k universe aren't limited to firing every 15 minutes. It seems more like the exception than the rule, or more specifically, a game mechanic/fluff retardation.Annatar Giftbringer wrote:60-80 missiles is pretty much standard fare for a ship of the wall. But per volley also represents 15 minutes worth of reloads, or that many missiles fired over 15 minutes. That's about half Honorverse ROF.
Can't be that, as the missiles use drone-linked AI (which is a proximity thing) and the fact that torps in the game are all intercepted at the same point. The novels don't depict such slow naval engagements and the video from Firewarrior shows quite fast firing.Nephtys wrote:It's a game mechanic, but it should be somewhat representative of the general effects of 15 minutes, as we don't seem to have any overriding source. So perhaps the reload time is not exactly 15 minutes between volleys... instead, that is how many missiles gets out in 15 minutes of continuous firing perhaps?
Contrary to what some people have taken and run with, it's a Andy Chambers quote on how long a turn is intended to be. And the answer is, 'it varies.' Between ten and twenty minutes.Akaramu Shinja wrote:Where is the 15min quote from exactly anyway? Is there only one place it is from?
Back then they did, yes. Not anymore.That NOS Guy wrote:IIRC, their major cap ships fall short of a Lunar-class IoM cruiser.Akaramu Shinja wrote:
But we do know that from the Democles crusade, the Tau began a large navy building initiative producing modern dedicated warships. The Commerce Protection Fleet for example.
Perhaps, though I got the impression from the description of Tau torpedoes that they were volley-fired. I only have the trial rules presented online years ago, but they state the following:Nephtys wrote: It's a game mechanic, but it should be somewhat representative of the general effects of 15 minutes, as we don't seem to have any overriding source. So perhaps the reload time is not exactly 15 minutes between volleys... instead, that is how many missiles gets out in 15 minutes of continuous firing perhaps?
So they seem to be fired in volleys. After all, they shouldn't have the same effects on shields if their effects were spread out over significant time, when compared to regular torpedoes.Tau missiles are drone-guided and are fired in salvos, each point of torpedo strength represents about 10 actual missiles. In game terms this makes no difference.
One missile volley every 1-2 minutes ? HH ships would laugh about a rate of fire like this, they are used to volleys every 15-25 seconds.Annatar Giftbringer wrote:Or, they fire ten volleys per turn, with the number of missiles in each volley depending on the strength of the battery
I too think it sounds stupid, but it all comes down to the "1 turn = 10 minutes" thing...HRogge wrote:One missile volley every 1-2 minutes ? HH ships would laugh about a rate of fire like this, they are used to volleys every 15-25 seconds.Annatar Giftbringer wrote:Or, they fire ten volleys per turn, with the number of missiles in each volley depending on the strength of the battery
