40k Titans

[Junghalli]

The eldar titan is the coolest. Just look at it. This is there smallest titan (they don’t have the biggest king but they do have small and medium) and the models down near the feet are taller than a normal human.
This thing is described as making imperil titans look ungainly.

I very much prefer the Imperial Titans and Ork Gargants myself. This thing looks like somebody just took a power armor suit and blew it up fifty million times, with no conception of what that does to the loadbearing capacity of the structure.
Why do these things have legs anyway? These things must weigh as much as a skyscraper, legs are the absolute worst possible way to move them.

[Black Admiral]

Why do these things have legs anyway? These things must weigh as much as a skyscraper, legs are the absolute worst possible way to move them.

They were designed as avatars of the Omnissiah, the Machine God. Apparently that necessitates a human form.

You have to understand, Imperial Titans are not meant as war machines, they are designed as living, breathing acts of worship. It's like Christian fundamentalists building a giant, mobile statue of Jesus that shoots from its mouth.

Orks build them because they can and aren't about to be upstaged by some robe-wearing "poncy humiez" in any case.

Eldar Titans are nowhere near as heavy as they look. For one thing, they're very lightly armoured, and for another, they're constructed of very lightweight materials.

[18-Till-I-Die]

All Eldar stuff is made of this material called wraithbone which is, besides being semi-sentient and psionic, probably has qualities we dont know of. Or that we do but i dont know 'em anyway. The point is, it's not the same as steel IIRC.

[andrewgpaul]

That cover art for the Titan graphic novel that 3rd Impact posted seems way out of scale. You can't quite see it there, but there's a gangway and entrance hatch on the front of that gun, below the barrels; if you check it out, the muzzle bore is about 10metres

The one with the crotch cannon is an Imperator Emperor-class titan; as well as the arm weapons, it's festooned with other weapons; it has a modified Volcano Cannon (same as a Shadow Sword tank) as an AA gun on top, 4 heavy bombardment guns on the upper carapace fortress. That crotch cannon is, IIRC, a battle cannon (same as the main gun on a Leman Russ MBT). It could carry a full company of Imperial Guard in those legs.

[Glimmervoid]

That cover art for the Titan graphic novel that 3rd Impact posted seems way out of scale.

Not out of scale thats just one of the biggest titan classes.

[andrewgpaul]

Nah, just a Warlord. That pic's inconsistent with the mini and other descriptionds/ images.

[Currald]

The one with the crotch cannon is an Imperator Emperor-class titan; as well as the arm weapons, it's festooned with other weapons; it has a modified Volcano Cannon (same as a Shadow Sword tank) as an AA gun on top, 4 heavy bombardment guns on the upper carapace fortress. That crotch cannon is, IIRC, a battle cannon (same as the main gun on a Leman Russ MBT). It could carry a full company of Imperial Guard in those legs.

Merely a platoon. Standard completment is one platoon per leg, one in the main body area, and two manning the upper battlements (these are usually armed with heavy weapons).
Titans are tough, but massed formations of Land Raiders can take them down (at least Warlords). This is mentioned in Space Marine (first edition) by Roboute Guilliman, IIRC.

As far as quantifying Titan weapons, we may be able to work our way over to it. The Ordinatus Armageddon (a non-humanoid avatar of the Machine God) is armed with a Nova Cannon, which is specifically described as being a starship weapon. There is no mention of nerfing the Nova Cannon. If anyone has Nova Cannon firepower stats, we could use them as a benchmark...

[Tasoth]

Additionally, Battle Titans of enough age can develop a form of sentience from all the various crews that plug themselves in. IIRC, the Chaos Titan in Hereticus was atleast sentient.

[Raxmei]

As far as quantifying Titan weapons, we may be able to work our way over to it. The Ordinatus Armageddon (a non-humanoid avatar of the Machine God) is armed with a Nova Cannon, which is specifically described as being a starship weapon. There is no mention of nerfing the Nova Cannon. If anyone has Nova Cannon firepower stats, we could use them as a benchmark...

Nova Cannon is an unusually large weapon even by starship standards. It's only ever used as a spinal mount on ships cruiser size on up. There was a Dsicussion about it some time back. The weapons itself is 300 meters long and 50 meters wide, firing a shell near c. They'd probably tune the muzzle velocity way down for use in atmospheres. The shell explodes with an area effet large enough to be relevent in space battles.
Nightbringer says the blast is the size of a small planet, but I don't know his source. If you can find the radius at which it will do one point of damage (a somewhat quantified yield) and then account for inverse square you'll have a rough estimate of the shell's yield.

[Currald]

Hmmm, that doesn't sound like the Ordinatus Armageddon's nova cannon at all, which was some sort of energy (plasma?) weapon. Oh well. Scratch that direction of inquiry.

[Junghalli]

You have to understand, Imperial Titans are not meant as war machines, they are designed as living, breathing acts of worship. It's like Christian fundamentalists building a giant, mobile statue of Jesus that shoots from its mouth.
Orks build them because they can and aren't about to be upstaged by some robe-wearing "poncy humiez" in any case.

Ah, I made the mistake of thinking they were actually supposed to be practical weapons.
Wait, does that mean that pre-Strife humanity didn't have Titans (or did have Titans but they were building-sized tanks instead of mecha-i.e. the way I'd have designed them )? Doesn't that make Titans new machine types, and therefore heresy?

Eldar Titans are nowhere near as heavy as they look. For one thing, they're very lightly armoured, and for another, they're constructed of very lightweight materials.

I still think they're stupid. It looks like the Fifty Foot Woman in a massively upscaled suit of Eldar armor.

[Black Admiral]

Ah, I made the mistake of thinking they were actually supposed to be practical weapons.
Wait, does that mean that pre-Strife humanity didn't have Titans (or did have Titans but they were building-sized tanks instead of mecha-i.e. the way I'd have designed them )? Doesn't that make Titans new machine types, and therefore heresy?

They were built by the Mechanicum on Mars during the Age of Strife, for usage in combat there. Nobody ever actually asked for the coggies to build one, the Emperor just turned up at Mars and found the coggies using them.

I still think they're stupid. It looks like the Fifty Foot Woman in a massively upscaled suit of Eldar armor.

Well, I think that they're xenos technoheresies, if effective ones, so to each his own.

[Currald]

Forwhatever reason, they're clearly the most powerful ground-based weapon system in the galaxy. Who cares why it works, or whether it would work in the 21st century? The results speak for themselves. The religious aspect should not be overlooked in 40K. Imperial Titans are avatars of the Omnissiah. Gargants are avatars of Gork and Mork. The gods are all too real in the 40K universe.

[Coalition]

And the Tau response is typical of their attitude towards the universe - long-range over the horizon missiles.

Basically use long-range weapons, and kill the other guy first.

[SAMAS]

I still think they're stupid. It looks like the Fifty Foot Woman in a massively upscaled suit of Eldar armor.

For the Eldar, they're kind of like giant Wraithlords, too. They contain a giant soulstone that contains the spirits of all the titan's previous crew.

That, and the Eldar are really big on style.

[SAMAS]

And the Tau response is typical of their attitude towards the universe - long-range over the horizon missiles.

Basically use long-range weapons, and kill the other guy first.

Which, when you consider their reputation, is kinda ironic.

Heck, when GW was accepting fan submissions to round out the Tau army for Epic Armageddon, one of their biggest restrictions was "No Walkers!".

[Darth PhysBod]

The high end of titan weapon firepower is low megatons. Of course, a Warlord class Titan has four main weapon mounts . . . .

I very much doubt they are in the 'low megaton' range. Given the descriptions of battles between Titan's and Gargants on Armageddon in built up areas, low Kilo-ton range is probably pushing it for all but the heaviest, maximum power weapons/Reactor overloads…

[Dark Hellion]

Given the way that 40K makes built up areas (especially on places like Armegeddon) this is like saying that hitting Norad with an Airstrike and not killing it means the airstrike is weak.
Titans smallest Titan-Grade weaponry is still described as making light buildings vaporize in under a second. This is just an oversized machine gun, plasma blastguns and others are so ridiculously overpowered that Titans are not concidered a normal usage weapon.
Descriptions say that titans can level cities in short order, to level a 40k city requires the firepower Imperial Ovelord states.

[Imperial Overlord]

The high end of titan weapon firepower is low megatons. Of course, a Warlord class Titan has four main weapon mounts . . . .

I very much doubt they are in the 'low megaton' range. Given the descriptions of battles between Titan's and Gargants on Armageddon in built up areas, low Kilo-ton range is probably pushing it for all but the heaviest, maximum power weapons/Reactor overloads…

That's why I said high end. And construction material for hive cities are a lot stronger than anything that we use in the modern world.

[RRoan]

*shrugs* The coggies are compensating for something. You should see the Ordinatus Gehenna. Bloody thing's as big as some starships. *shakes head*

What's that?

[Black Admiral]

What's that?

A giant self-proppelled gun, with a barrel bore wide enough to swallow a Battle Titan whole.

[DocHorror]

A giant self-proppelled gun, with a barrel bore wide enough to swallow a Battle Titan whole.

Jesus, where did that appear?

[Black Admiral]

Jesus, where did that appear?

Iron Hands.

And this ancient and noble machine itself:

Revealed before their eyes was a monstrous cannon mounted on a carriage formed from three traction units. The weapon seemed huge against the backdrop of the jagged Argentum peaks until Gdolkin realised that the specks crawling around the base of the tracked units and over the holed hull itself were in fact human-sized figures - Death Guard, Imperial soldiers, traitor PDF troops and the tech-guard of the Adeptus Mechanicus.

The ordinatus engine rose up before them, a colossal construction of Mechanicus might, all monstrous traction units, defence cannons, augur arrays and command spires.

The ancient war machine was dominated by an enourmous barrel, larger even than one of the giant warrior-gods of the Titan Legions, that rose from the centre of the largest of three traction units. It was a leviathan creation of a gun dating from even before the birth of the glorious Imperium. Surrounding the monstrous cannon were all manner of archeotech devices, such as building-wide tesla coils to help focus and maintain the devastating, mountain-levelling beam the gargantuan gun produced.

The mouth of the barrel opened like a volcanic crater. At least half of the city-sized war machine was made up of the generarium units needed to produce the incredible amount of power necessary to fire the apocalypse cannon.

A pulse of crimson light erupted from the mouth of the enourmous cannon, wreathed in coruscating beams of barbed orange lightning, waves of power evaporating to heat and melting the fog of war from above the battlefield accompanied by a hurricane force wind.

In the distance, still some kilometers away, amidst the stripped bare bedrock of the Argentum Mountains, lay the focus around which the Plague God's forces had gathered like flies around a corpse.

The apocalypse beam cut through the roiling clouds circling above the ragged peaks, burning away the unnatural night that claimed dominion over the mountains in a searing blaze of light that was indeed like the light of apocalyptic oblivion.

The cannon's beam hit the mountainside with all the force of a crashing meteor. The mountain exploded, shards of rock the size of hive towers splintering away from the face of the target. The foothills of the Argentum range were buried by a tumultous landslide, sheets of rock pummeling down the mountainsides. Cataclysmic booms shook the spine of of the mountain range.

The beam continued to bore its way through the bedrock, into the planet, like a Mechanicus mining machine, the land for a radius of twenty kilometers suffering seismic disturbances violent enough to topple tall buildings. The very ground beneath the great Gehenna shook, so that barely a man was left standing on board that monumental vessel. It felt as if the recoil forces unleashed by the firing of the cannon were going to shake the wounded ordinatus apart.

A great gout of broiling lava vomited skywards as the apocalypse cannon's beam finally punctured a magma vent deep beneath the earth. Whatever lay beneath the mountains that was of such importance to the Death Guard and the other heretics was buried, destroyed in the volcanic heat of the gushing lava flow. Thousands of ravening cultists and their Nurgle Marine overseers dissolved in the fiery flood that erupted from beneath the planet, as if Fornax Orbis Majoris was at last being avenged upon its pillagers.

But if the violent seismic activity caused by the apocalypse cannon's blast had seemed terrible, it was as nothing compared to the devastation that came in its wake.

It was as if all sound had been sucked into the crater that had been created by Gehenna's cannon, for the breifest moment, only to be replaced seconds later by a subsonic whomph that passed through everyone and everything in a ten kilometre radius. And this was only the atmospheric pressuing precursor to the shockwave that was coming.

[Darth PhysBod]

Given the way that 40K makes built up areas (especially on places like Armegeddon) this is like saying that hitting Norad with an Airstrike and not killing it means the airstrike is weak.
Titans smallest Titan-Grade weaponry is still described as making light buildings vaporize in under a second. This is just an oversized machine gun, plasma blastguns and others are so ridiculously overpowered that Titans are not concidered a normal usage weapon.
Descriptions say that titans can level cities in short order, to level a 40k city requires the firepower Imperial Ovelord states.

1. Show me quotes/extracts/official artwork where you get mult-km Fireballs from said 'low-megaton' firepower. You simply cannot have such staggering firepower without them. Or the after affects for that matter; the first Megaton scale nuclear test (Ivy Mike) completely levelled the island leaving a 2 crater in its place...

2. You are falling into the same trap as many who throw around multi-megaton (which requires multiple-km diameter fireballs that you could in no-way miss in a battle...) figures like snowballs. Do you have any idea of how impressive (and utterly un-miss it would be in a battle), the explosion from 100 tonnes of TNT is?
I refer you to the 'calibration' test for Trinity (shown on the documentary 'Trinity and beyond').

Have you also any idea of the devastation incurred when hundreds of tonnes of TNT and other explosives are detonated? I refer you to the real example of the Halifax explosion of 1917 and the effect of 200 tonnes of TNT, 2300 tons of picric acid, going up in one go had on the city http://www.halifaxexplosion.org/dayof.shtml

In that example 2.5 square km was levelled in the explosion. You don't need a multi-megaton blasts to level a city. Just one of those (halifax explosion) going off per minute would cause horrendous damage in the space of an hour. Clearly there is massive ordinance used in 40K land Battles, artillery pieces that far exceed the calibre of anything used today (large areas of the city in ‘necropolis’ where flattened in short order by massive artillery bombardments), but nothing to suggest dozens of square Km disappearing in a single fireball is the ‘norm’.

3. Show me where it states all 40K buildings are capable of with-standing sub-megaton hits. I refer you to the Hive Spire in the 'necropolis' book in Gaunts Ghost's which was repeatedly penetrated by conventional heavy gun/rocket artillery (And in an aside, the 'tainted Hive' in that book was finally levelled from orbit by a fleet of thousands of warships, not a single 'uber' titan weapon)

[Currald]

I tend to agree with Darth PhysBod. While there may be some evidence for such high yields, the preponderance of evidence suggests far lower yields. One good example would be the Quake Cannon, which is pretty powerful as Battle Titan weapons go. It can usually level a reenforced building with one shot.