Sci Fi power ranking

[Xon]

You dont have the Xeelee in that list.

Universe spanning empire from the dawn of the universe(measuring milliseconds from the big bang) with an FTL drive system which is intrinsically a time machine(10k lightyear jumps ariving 5 years before you left in about Planck’s time? Can do). Their history is a temporal loop spanning over 5 billion years and has and always will exist. Thye have no beginning and have no end, and emerged fully formed into the universe a very short time after the big bang.

The Xeelee are composed of a symbosis of 3 different sentient species. The 1st and oldest is a form of creature which is composed of spacetime defects, they are living pockets of spacetime were the laws of spacetime are different. (IIRC)The 2nd is composed of quantum wave functions which can send information down a quantum inseperatable link effectively instantly(sure as hell isnt limited by the normal speed of light). The 3rd is some carbon base lifeform.

They constructed the great Attractor for their universe and move so much mass it is the literial centre of mass of their universe. This Great Attractor is constructed out of super-strings rotating at near c, and in some locations greater than c relative to other portions of the Ring.

The purpose of this great Ring is to escape the universe, as the Xeelee have been fighting a losing battle against Dark Matter creatures which only loosly interacte with normal matter.

I believe, based on the latest Xeelee books, that the Ring is more than an inter-universe transportation system. It makes no sense to expand so much effort when technology demonstarted in Xeelee-verse can more easily cross into alternitive dimensions. (Reality Dust is a good case for this). I believe the great Ring actually generates universes based on a criteria.

Xeelee-verse universe's are created by some truely alien creatures which only exist as defined by their relations with others. They like universes with stories, thus the universes they create are filled with life. Given that it is posible to interact with them via super-massive blackholes(they exist in the Singularity?) it stands to reason that the Xeelee have learn how to interact with them to the nth degree. And they have the perfect tool todo so, the entire purpose of the great Attactor is to create a naked Singularity.

Thus the Xeelee are creating their own designed universes.

[Glimmervoid]

Why are the wrath from stargate atlantics below the Goa'uld and by a long way? They took on the Ancients and won. They might have done it through numbers but that will surely allow them to take on the Goa'uld. Unless is this the Anubis enhanced Goa'uld.

[NecronLord]

They took on the Ancients and won. They might have done it through numbers but that will surely allow them to take on the Goa'uld. Unless is this the Anubis enhanced Goa'uld.

They took on a tiny number of ancients in a city, and couldn't directly harm them, but bored them into going home.

[NecronLord]

Well the way orks work is they scavenge technology meaning they adapt fast. Also the way orks breed (fungus) if you get one ork on a planet you will never get rid of them. This allows them to take on pretty much anyone ignoring there military power.

I think they are in the wright place in the new colour list.

Krork are literally incapable of working together as a species. They simply can't do it. Their brains aren't wired the right way. They can not fight on a galactic level, they can take individual planets only, with no co-ordination... They are not a serious threat at the level they've been rated at.

Add to that that a Waagh is not a threat to a race with a more sophisticated government than the Imperium's (hint, it works because the IoM can't respond to a planetary invasion under a few weeks).

Point three - Krork adapatation is a myth. It's nothing special. They can figure out an IoM tank - illiterate moron yokels with two hours training can figure out those things.

Point four - The Fungus can be eradicated by a government with a standard of living above the IoM's with ease. Flamethrowers and vigilance deals with the Krork.

[Crown]

They took on the Ancients and won. They might have done it through numbers but that will surely allow them to take on the Goa'uld. Unless is this the Anubis enhanced Goa'uld.

They took on a tiny number of ancients in a city, and couldn't directly harm them, but bored them into going home.

Actually they took on an unknown number of ancients in the Pegasus Galaxy and forced them to abonden all their 1000's colonies/protected worlds and flee for the their bitchy little lives.

[NecronLord]

Actually they took on an unknown number of ancients in the Pegasus Galaxy and forced them to abonden all their 1000's colonies/protected worlds and flee for the their bitchy little lives.

The Ancients went in one city, built some more stuff, but there's no reason to suspect that they had much population growth, given the apparent lack of them at the end. It certainly seems from all evidence (Atara being the only one on her planet) that they produced far more humans than little Ancients.

Certainly by the end of the war there were very few Ancients left in Atlantis, there's no reason to assume there was ever a great number of them in Pegasus.

[Crown]

Actually they took on an unknown number of ancients in the Pegasus Galaxy and forced them to abonden all their 1000's colonies/protected worlds and flee for the their bitchy little lives.

The Ancients went in one city, built some more stuff, but there's no reason to suspect that they had much population growth, given the apparent lack of them at the end. It certainly seems from all evidence (Atara being the only one on her planet) that they produced far more humans than little Ancients.

Certainly by the end of the war there were very few Ancients left in Atlantis, there's no reason to assume there was ever a great number of them in Pegasus.

What was it about the word 'unknown' that forced you to interpret to mean anything but unknown

[NecronLord]

I'm justifying why I say they had such a small population.

As for the goa'uld. They're too high, as, are IMO, the stargate Ancients (unless you're talking about the ascended).

[Dahak]

YThe Xeelee are composed of a symbosis of 3 different sentient species. The 1st and oldest is a form of creature which is composed of spacetime defects, they are living pockets of spacetime were the laws of spacetime are different. (IIRC)The 2nd is composed of quantum wave functions which can send information down a quantum inseperatable link effectively instantly(sure as hell isnt limited by the normal speed of light). The 3rd is some carbon base lifeform.

The second species that made up the proto-Xeelee was a species of composite matter, not quantum wave functions.

They constructed the great Attractor for their universe and move so much mass it is the literial centre of mass of their universe. This Great Attractor is constructed out of super-strings rotating at near c, and in some locations greater than c relative to other portions of the Ring.

The Ring strings never exceed c, but some parts reach c.

I believe, based on the latest Xeelee books, that the Ring is more than an inter-universe transportation system. It makes no sense to expand so much effort when technology demonstarted in Xeelee-verse can more easily cross into alternitive dimensions. (Reality Dust is a good case for this). I believe the great Ring actually generates universes based on a criteria.

It was explicitly stated what it was. There is no indication it may be anything other than an opening into other universes. That was the purpose to generate a Kerr-Metric in the first place.

Xeelee-verse universe's are created by some truely alien creatures which only exist as defined by their relations with others. They like universes with stories, thus the universes they create are filled with life. Given that it is posible to interact with them via super-massive blackholes(they exist in the Singularity?) it stands to reason that the Xeelee have learn how to interact with them to the nth degree. And they have the perfect tool todo so, the entire purpose of the great Attactor is to create a naked Singularity.

Thus the Xeelee are creating their own designed universes.

That is purely speculation.
The Xeelee know that something that is not to be disturbed is connected with the big black holes in the center of galaxies.
Nothing indicates that they would be "creating" universes on their own.

[Dahak]

Now we have a working list let’s add in more universes.

Fist Peter F. Hamilton night’s dawn trilogies confederation.
No energy shields. FTL of 15 light years in a few seconds but they need to recharge after. Standard beam weapons (I can not tell you the power) robot combat drones (which can be armed with antimatter) fusion powered.

They have outlawed antimatter but have showmen they will use it when push comes to shove.

Affinity gene in the edenist allows them to control there organic technology with there mind and talk to other edenist.

Computers implanted into the brain allow adamist to control there mechanical technology.

They have a weapon that can bow up (or implode) and sun or gas giant. But this is likely lost technology.

The Alchemist isn't really lost technology. Several people still know about it and can speculate what it was. It isn't really all that difficult once you've seen it...

As for another species:
The Kiint of the same universe. They can transport themselves across the universe without the need for ships, and for a home, they arranged planets in a ring in their solar system.
And have nanoreplication technology.

[Lord Zentei]

You dont have the Xeelee in that list.

I left out the Galactic Empire and the uberwank powers as there was little debate on their positioning.

[Lord Zentei]

Now we have a working list let’s add in more universes.

Let's work out the bugs in the list first.

[Lord Zentei]

* Zerg, Goa'uld, Borg and Dominion nerfed to "Protoss and Lower" level. This solves the exessive Borg & Dominion ranking and Zerg>>Protoss problem in one blow.
* Nerfed the Orks, a large Waaagh! would threaten the Tau empire.
* Arguably the Vorlons & Shadows should be below the Orks due to the firepower disparity? the Orks have gigaton level weaponry after all.
* Orks placed above Dominion for same reason.
* Added "GE and up" just to show that I hadn't forgotten the big boys.
* Position of empires in white and not boldfaced to be taken with a grain of salt.
* Also, I'm running out of colours...


Xeelee & Exession Builders
Xeeleverse humans
the Culture
the Foundation
the Galactic Empire (Foundation)
the Galactic Empire (Star Wars)
Farscape Ancients
SG1 Ancients (at their height)
Imperium of Man (WH40K)
Tyrannids
Orks - maximum(WH40K)
. Scarrans
Peacekeepers
. Concordiat
. Sephirotic metaempire (Orion's Arm)
. Republic of Man (Resnick's universe)
. Tar Aiym (Foster's Commonwealth universe)
. Terran Confederation (Wing Commander)
. Kilrathi
. Hominid Phylum
Imperium (Dune universe)
Eldar - minimum
Vorlons & Shadows
Orks ?(WH40K)
Tau
Protoss & Zerg
Borg
Goa'uld
Dominion
. Starfire universe
. Humanx Commonwealth (Foster's Commonwealth universe)
. Puppeteers
. Covenant
Terran Federation (SST book)
Bugs (SST book)
Dark Eldar
. Haloverse humans
Starcraft Terrans
Wraiths (SG:A)
Federation (Trek)
Romulans
Klingons
. Known Space humans
. Kziniti (with FTL)
Cardassians
Minbari
League of Nobles (Dune prequel novels)
Synchronized Worlds (Dune prequel novels)
. Fifty Spacer Worlds (Foundationverse)
Earth Alliance (B5)
Narn
. Terran Federation (SST movie)
Cylons
Twelve Colonies (Galactica)
. Gundam
. The Alien universe
. ID4 aliens
. The Race
. Draka (as of 2004)
. modern Earth

[Glimmervoid]

What do all the diffrent colours mean?

[Lord Zentei]

What do all the diffrent colours mean?

The colour represents the setting: for instance the Trek powers are in blue, etc. This is mainly so we can see the relative ranking of those powers that are directly measurable relative to one another at a glance. Those not definitively positioned don't have a colour yet.

[Glimmervoid]

Maybe the Terran Federation (SST book) should be moved up. They did have missiles that could "crack the crust of a planet". And the ground troops were some of the best around. They had hand held nukes and stuff.

[Currald]

The Enderverse has FTL. Remember, Ender was obsessing about the terribly price they might have to pay for using FTL (reducing the universe's lifespan or something?).

Civilization from the Lensman series should be near Xeelee and Culture. I haven't seen a completely convincing debate about either of these, but my inclination is to tentatively place it just below the Culture. Boskonia from the Lensman series should go directly under Civilization, as they lost, albiet barely. When technology and numbers are equal, philosophy matters!

[Grasscutter]

Much better. I'm a little unsure about the Starcraft Terrans being above the Federation though. Didn't we decide somewhere that a GCS (non-war) could take down a Terran Battlecrusier? Plus, doesn't the Federation have a higher industrial capacity?

Can we add:

Zentraedi/Meltrandi
U.N. Spacy

from the Macross universe? Macross mind you, NOT Robotech. I think they'd fit in between the Cardassians and the Minbari. I'd put the Robotech version of of the Zentraedi and the RDF/REF above the Cylons (Neo version, I'm assuming).

[Lord Zentei]

Yes, the Book SST should be higher and yes, the Starcraft terrans should be lower. They had only 13 planets at the start of the SC game and the Feds have ten times as many. Probably they are at or below the B5 level.

I'm not familiar with the Enderverse.

[Nephtys]

Hrm. League of Nobles and Synchronized worlds both suffer badly from a lack of anything resembling good FTL. They take months to cross to nearby systems... not to mention using non-armor damaging lasers, or just mass drivers. And em. Gundam should be a helluva lot lower, especially compared to Aliens and ID4. The Dune Imperium should be below even the Tau, as they are still using mass drivers and non-nuclear warheads... not to mention awkward space travel, if fast.

Just some opinions. It's so impossible to classify these things.

[Vanas]

The Gundam universe really doesn't have anything but interplanetary travel. I'd put it lower, really.

The Zentraedi could be in the list though, but I'm not clear on alot about them. -.-

[18-Till-I-Die]

As already mentioned the Civilization from Lensmen should be at Culture level, just below but actually thats arguable. I think they're about equal really. Boskone from Lensmen should be just below Galactic Civilization.

Skylarkers, the races from teh Skylark books, should be above the Culture, just below the Time Lords. They arent fucking with the Time Lords, Xeelee, or Excession Builders but they could take on anyone else on that list. Even the lowest ones are probably above the Culture.

[Nephtys]

The Gundam universe really doesn't have anything but interplanetary travel. I'd put it lower, really.

The Zentraedi could be in the list though, but I'm not clear on alot about them. -.-

The Zenties have five million combat warships, mostly between half and two kilometers long. Except... they don't know how to repair anything. Or build anything. So who knows. They'd be probably slightly above Terran Confederation.

As for the UN Spacy.. what era are we talking here?

[18-Till-I-Die]

Both Arisians and Eddorians, the two ancient races from Lensmen, should be about Xeelee level, just below the Xeelee. Both existed before anyone else, and teh Eddorians can travel through 'thousands' of dimensions, both have incredably vast psionic abilities, enough to make the Culture Minds think for about fifty seconds...thats, like, a lot for a culture mind.

Also Arisians basically built Civilization, which is about equal, maybe a hair below, the Culture and teh Eddorians created Boskone. So they shoudl be higher than those two on the list.

[Grasscutter]

The Gundam universe really doesn't have anything but interplanetary travel. I'd put it lower, really.

The Zentraedi could be in the list though, but I'm not clear on alot about them. -.-

The Zenties have five million combat warships, mostly between half and two kilometers long. Except... they don't know how to repair anything. Or build anything. So who knows. They'd be probably slightly above Terran Confederation.

As for the UN Spacy.. what era are we talking here?

Macross 7 and later. So, galactic exploration with fairly fast FTL, numerous colony worlds (probably at LEAST 100+), and a decent sized space fleet (they absorbed and upgraded Breetai's fleet) and industrial capacity.

I placed the Spacy and the Zentraedi low, though, because even at their strongest states their average weapon yield and armor strength isn't that impressive compared to other sci-fi series. There's even debate over the power of reflex weaponry. I think the big question in my mind is whether or not they can take the Trek powers.

On a related note, why is the Terran Confederation and the Kilrathi so high? I didn't realize their weapons and FTL were so much stronger than the Trek ships. Not disputing it, just asking for more info.