More on Terri Schiavo--UPDATE: Schiavo dead 31 Mar 05

Post by **Dalton** » 2005-03-24 11:19am

Looks like the Supreme Court rejected the appeal.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2005-03-24 11:22am

Dalton wrote:Looks like the Supreme Court rejected the appeal.

What a shock. They're not going to overturn 3 state courts and 2 federal courts.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-03-24 11:24am

Firefox wrote:If that were to happen, the thudding sound you hear next will be thousands of people throwing themselves from tall buildings, thinking The Rapture has arrived.

The collective IQ of the US may jump a few notches upwards then.

mwm1331 · Post by **mwm1331** » 2005-03-24 11:31am

I'm willing to bet that those Dems who voted yes, did so for campaign reasons rather than anything else.

What and the repubicans dont want to be reelected?
Both parties did this for campaign reasons.

Firefox · Post by **Firefox** » 2005-03-24 11:34am

Irrelevant. Your point was "But the democrats voted for it too!" Wong and others have pointed out why that's not important.

mwm1331 · Post by **mwm1331** » 2005-03-24 11:40am

Oh I see, so the democrats voted to get reelected and the republicans voted becuase they are eeeeeeeeeeevvvvvvvvvvviiiiiilllllllllllllllll.
Got it.
Hypocracy noted.

Firefox · Post by **Firefox** » 2005-03-24 11:42am

Don't put words into my mouth, idiot. I wasn't saying that the Republicans didn't do it for political purposes, as well. I said the point is irrelevant. Learn to read.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2005-03-24 11:43am

RedImperator wrote:
Elfdart wrote:Jeb Bush claims he has the right to "take custody" of Schiavo's corpse. The courts say he doesn't. What happens if Jeb sends state troopers to grab the carcass and the federal courts (which the Corpsefucker Congress gave jurisdiction to) send marshalls to stop them?

Before you mention Arkansas or Mississippi, keep in mind that Faubus and Barnett didn't have a brother in the White House.
With 70% of the population already believing the government has overreached? Political suicide.

The Bush Crime Family has painted itself into a corner here. If they punk out, the fundies might (though I wouldn't bet the house payment on it) stay home in droves next year. If they follow through and snatch the cadaver, they might piss off the lemmings enough to make them do something about it (like vote the GOP out in 2006).

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-03-24 11:43am

mwm1331, you're walking on thin ice here. I warn you that such empty counters to perfectly valid points do not a rebuttal make. Prepare for a grilling if you keep that up.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-03-24 11:46am

Elfdart wrote: The Bush Crime Family has painted itself into a corner here. If they punk out, the fundies might (though I wouldn't bet the house payment on it) stay home in droves next year. If they follow through and snatch the cadaver, they might piss off the lemmings enough to make them do something about it (like vote the GOP out in 2006).

The die is cast, the damage done, locking the stable door after the horse has bolted. Bush can't get in again and that makes the next election, to me, rather meaningless. Unless they get someone in who is actually worse than Bush and the administration stays the same or deteriorates just as much, I feel we failed in letting Bush get that second term.

But, I'd like to see the Dems get their act together. It would be interesting to see how this would've played out with a Democrat gov't.

mwm1331 · Post by **mwm1331** » 2005-03-24 11:47am

My point firefox in pointing out democratic support was that this whole debacle is a shameless political ploy to garner votes with a subset of the american populace that has proven itself to be able to tip the balance of an electon.
Both sides voted for it for the exact same reason, to get votes.
Nothing more, if you think any of the senators or congressmen who voted for the bill give two shits about shiavo you are fucking deluded.
It was abnout getting votes and probably from the rep side attempting to establish a precedent which might help to outlaw abortion.
If anything the republican backing is mre "honorable" as they were also using this to advance ther agenda while the dems only wanted the votes.

Firefox · Post by **Firefox** » 2005-03-24 11:48am

Indeed. The democrats need to grow some serious testicles (as well as some brains, perhaps) and use this issue to highlight the hypocrisy of the "compassionate conservatives", and their apparent desire to trump personal freedoms under the banner of the preservation of said freedoms.

Firefox · Post by **Firefox** » 2005-03-24 11:50am

My point firefox in pointing out democratic support was that this whole debacle is a shameless political ploy to garner votes with a subset of the american populace that has proven itself to be able to tip the balance of an electon.
Both sides voted for it for the exact same reason, to get votes.
Nothing more, if you think any of the senators or congressmen who voted for the bill give two shits about shiavo you are fucking deluded.

No shit. How does this erase your previous strawman statement and make the point relevant, however?

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2005-03-24 11:50am

mwm1331 wrote:Oh I see, so the democrats voted to get reelected and the republicans voted becuase they are eeeeeeeeeeevvvvvvvvvvviiiiiilllllllllllllllll.
Got it.
Hypocracy noted.

One side voted to use a dead woman as a political prop in a freak show with quack doctors and fetus fetishists. The other voted not to. Even assuming for the sake of argument that in both cases, it was purely to get reelected, only one side turned corpsefucker. Yes, they are EE-VILLE -as Alec Guinness would say.

You are one dumb twat!

Chmee · Post by **Chmee** » 2005-03-24 12:15pm

Firefox wrote:Indeed. The democrats need to grow some serious testicles (as well as some brains, perhaps) and use this issue to highlight the hypocrisy of the "compassionate conservatives", and their apparent desire to trump personal freedoms under the banner of the preservation of said freedoms.

Actually, democrats do this nearly every day on a variety of issues, whether it's right-to-die in Oregon being opposed by the hypocritical 'states rights' neocons (they're only in favor of state's rights as long as the state is doing what they want) or opposing radical judicial appointees no matter how many times The Shrub pushes them up for review.

Unfortunately, both parties over the last 20 years have really lost the spirit of compromise for the good of the nation that once dominated the Senate and House .... now it's dog-eat-dog, dirty tricks, spin-meistering and posturing day after day, and it's rather disheartenning.

But ... nothing new. As rich empires get old, their ruling elites spend less and less time looking after the peoples' interests and more and more time revelling in their power, until the whole thing falls apart. Hopefully long after we're all gone.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2005-03-24 12:29pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:
Firefox wrote:If that were to happen, the thudding sound you hear next will be thousands of people throwing themselves from tall buildings, thinking The Rapture has arrived.
The collective IQ of the US may jump a few notches upwards then.

that or I could picture an "Onion" article about "Jedi Terri" and Bush wanting lucas to provide him and Jeb with working lightsabers, along with LAATS and clone troopers for Iraq.....

Lucas replied: Lightsabers aren't real you redneck dumbasses, besides even if they were you would need years of training to use one without killing yourself....

with a moment's pause Lucas then promised to have them sent out to Cheney, and both Bushes within the hour.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2005-03-24 12:40pm

mwm1331 wrote:My point firefox in pointing out democratic support was that this whole debacle is a shameless political ploy to garner votes with a subset of the american populace that has proven itself to be able to tip the balance of an electon.

Of course it is. That's, more than not, the reason why so many Dems voted for that fucked up bill. Who the hell wants to get hit over the head with some mud campaign durring the their next campaign (deserved or not) about letting or worse, helping kill a poor innocent woman.

Not that that's what going on, but it will be the negative attack. The bill was worthless really, since all it did was give the Feds a crack at it. Some thought they may be ordering the courts to do something (which makes me laugh) but really they just gave the courts a crack at it and they threw it out (as they should).

Since it was basically worthless and grandstanding, why vote no and be beat over the head with the damn thing next fall or a year from now or what ever.

Both sides voted for it for the exact same reason, to get votes.
Nothing more, if you think any of the senators or congressmen who voted for the bill give two shits about shiavo you are fucking deluded.
It was abnout getting votes and probably from the rep side attempting to establish a precedent which might help to outlaw abortion.
If anything the republican backing is mre "honorable" as they were also using this to advance ther agenda while the dems only wanted the votes.

Nothing honorable about vote whoring. There may have been two or three deluded fuckers who thought they were ordering the courts to stop the death of Schivo, but in reality, all they did was ask a Fed judge to 'review the case' and he quickly dismissed it because the parents position in nothing but an Appeal to Emotion. They have no legal standing and it is amazing that the case has lasted so long.

The Congress was grandstanding, nothing more, nothing less. Granted, politically, it was a no loose situation for some, whoring themselves out to a religeous special interest. But mostly it was a feel good measure.

The Spartan · Post by **The Spartan** » 2005-03-24 12:56pm

I just had a quite morbid thought. What if we let the corpse whores have her body on the condition that they foot the bill for keeping her "alive" in it's entirety.

My thoughts were that, in the future, when she never recovers, we could point and say something equivalent to 'I told you so'...

BTW, I'm not seriously suggesting this happen because I firmly believe Mr Shiavo should have the sole descision in this. It was just something that occured to me as a pure hypothetical and I figured I'd post it to see what, if any, fleshing out anyone might have. On the other hand, you may just want to flame me without mercy for even bringing it up... in which case go ahead.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-03-24 01:00pm

When her liquefied brain fails to regrow itself and the mindless husk of a person is allowed to live out a full mockery of life, they will still insist that she was alive all the time.

This is for one simple reason: hardcore fundies do not believe that the mind is contained in the brain. That's why they are so completely, inexplicably, maddeningly unmoved by the fact that her brain has fucking liquefied in her skull. Any normal person who recognizes the concept of "brain=mind" does not question her state of consciousness once he finds out that her brain is mostly gone, but for a hardcore fundie, her "soul" is still sitting in there, still capable of thinking and feeling as long as any portion of her withered brain is still functional. It's completely irrational, but it's a direct result of religious fanaticism.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2005-03-24 01:03pm

Durandal wrote:
Dalton wrote:Looks like the Supreme Court rejected the appeal.
What a shock. They're not going to overturn 3 state courts and 2 federal courts.

They might. But certainly not when the law has been followed and all that is at stake is the success of a disgusting political game. I'm glad that this has been squashed once and for all.

The Spartan · Post by **The Spartan** » 2005-03-24 01:08pm

That's a good point Mike. I hadn't thought about that angle. Mostly because I don't equate the mind to a soul...

And then there's those weirdos that can "sense her prescence" or some such horseshit. Yeah, they'll never believe she's dead.

This is what I get for posting something on the spur of the moment and not thinking it completely through... shame on me.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2005-03-24 01:23pm

The Spartan wrote:I just had a quite morbid thought. What if we let the corpse whores have her body on the condition that they foot the bill for keeping her "alive" in it's entirety.

My thoughts were that, in the future, when she never recovers, we could point and say something equivalent to 'I told you so'...

BTW, I'm not seriously suggesting this happen because I firmly believe Mr Shiavo should have the sole descision in this. It was just something that occured to me as a pure hypothetical and I figured I'd post it to see what, if any, fleshing out anyone might have. On the other hand, you may just want to flame me without mercy for even bringing it up... in which case go ahead.

Hence my refrence early on to (I'm suprised the family/the fundy's haven't suggested building her "the golden throne") The Warhammer 40kers should have picked up on it, but didn't

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2005-03-24 01:29pm

From the safe distance of Europe, I can say this gets more and more absurd every hour.
It's like sitting with popcorn in front of your news site and wait what idea they try next to "save" her.

Just let that thing die...

Sharp-kun · Post by **Sharp-kun** » 2005-03-24 01:36pm

Chances on Jeb Bush being made her legal guardian?

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2005-03-24 01:48pm

Sharp-kun wrote:Chances on Jeb Bush being made her legal guardian?

About zip, I'd imagine. The courts have sided with Michael Schiavo this far, they aren't going to stop now.