More on Terri Schiavo--UPDATE: Schiavo dead 31 Mar 05

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2005-03-23 05:43pm

DPDarkPrimus wrote:9 year old arrested. He tried to go to give Terri a glass of water.

Of course, all the right-wingers are screaming about how horrible this is- sure, it's not horrible to manipulate a child like that, convincing him to do something illegal, and furthermore, something that would most definately HAD killed her, since swallowing is something she dosen't do any more!

You've got to admit, these right-wing assholes are masters at sinking to the lowest possible level and managing to squeeze sympathy out of it.

Mr. Sinister · Post by **Mr. Sinister** » 2005-03-23 06:55pm

Durandal wrote:
DPDarkPrimus wrote:9 year old arrested. He tried to go to give Terri a glass of water.

Of course, all the right-wingers are screaming about how horrible this is- sure, it's not horrible to manipulate a child like that, convincing him to do something illegal, and furthermore, something that would most definately HAD killed her, since swallowing is something she dosen't do any more!
You've got to admit, these right-wing assholes are masters at sinking to the lowest possible level and managing to squeeze sympathy out of it.

I think that the most disgusting thing about this whole mess is that no matter what the outcome is, it's a win-win situation for the Right. If the tube is reinserted, then they have saved the life of a poor, defenseless woman whose only crime was that she was considered no longer useful. If Schiavo dies, then she was brutally and cruelly starved, murdered even, by the activist judges, the liberal media, or whatever bogeymen they what to name.

As sickening as this is, you can't help but watch in awe as they twist and spin this situation and manipulate these saps to help their agenda despite the outcome. It's like watching Palpatine at work.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2005-03-23 06:58pm

Update on the case: the full 11th Circuit Court of Appeals declined to review the case. As well, the Florida state Senate rejected a bill that would have allowed the state to forcibly reinsert the tube.

The ghouls have nothing but SCOTUS left now, and their prospects there are very poor.

Macross · Post by **Macross** » 2005-03-23 06:58pm

Durandal wrote:
DPDarkPrimus wrote:9 year old arrested. He tried to go to give Terri a glass of water.

Of course, all the right-wingers are screaming about how horrible this is- sure, it's not horrible to manipulate a child like that, convincing him to do something illegal, and furthermore, something that would most definately HAD killed her, since swallowing is something she dosen't do any more!
You've got to admit, these right-wing assholes are masters at sinking to the lowest possible level and managing to squeeze sympathy out of it.

It boils down to Religion vs Science.

I get the distinct impression (from stories like this, as well as reading peoples messages on other boards) that a vast majority of people dont fully understand her condition. For them, this is an "emotional" issue not a medical one. The nightly news only focuses on the emotional, religious, morale, and ethical aspects of this case. If they spent more time on the medical science of this case, I am sure that more people would be more understanding of Mr Schaivo and the courts ruling.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2005-03-23 07:13pm

RedImperator wrote:Update on the case: the full 11th Circuit Court of Appeals declined to review the case. As well, the Florida state Senate rejected a bill that would have allowed the state to forcibly reinsert the tube.

The ghouls have nothing but SCOTUS left now, and their prospects there are very poor.

Florida's senate voted down a bill. The bill, if it were to pass, said that you couldn't starve a PVS person.

Jeb Bush said he was going to do something, didn't catch what it was. These fuckers are gettting desperate.

On top of everything else, some ass hat let their kids get arrested by sending in their kids to give Terry some water.

What a cluster fuck.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2005-03-23 07:26pm

Knife wrote:Jeb Bush said he was going to do something, didn't catch what it was. These fuckers are gettting desperate.

Jebby said he was going to petition the courts to have the State of Florida named guardian ad-leitem for Terri Schiavo on the basis of —get this— that her PVS state is a misdiagnosis and that she is in actuality only in a state of "limited consciousness". This based on an opinion from whatever quack Jebby's roped in as his medical adviser which goes back to a previous misdiagnosis of Schiavo from around six years ago.

The GOP and the Bush Bros. seem determined to find whole new dimensions of "low" to sink to.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-03-23 07:35pm

Where are all of the morons who were angrily insisting (right here on this board) before the election that we anti-Bush people were exaggerating just how politically ruthless the GOP was?

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2005-03-23 07:38pm

Jeb Bush was just on the radio threatening to take Terry Schiavo into "adult protective custody" or some such bullshit, trying to make it sound like she's an abused child given succor.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2005-03-23 07:47pm

Darth Wong wrote:Where are all of the morons who were angrily insisting (right here on this board) before the election that we anti-Bush people were exaggerating just how politically ruthless the GOP was?

Shut up, you fucking Leftie Commie. The Democrats did the same thing when ... um, well, uh ... Manfring ... gin ... son. (Kudos to whoever gets the reference.)

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2005-03-23 08:19pm

Don't call me stupid, Durandal!

Media Matters has these lying motherfuckers nailed:

http://mediamatters.org/

CRASH! -Asshoooole!

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-03-23 08:30pm

I am truly and thoroughly disgusted now. How much time and money have been spent on this disaster?! Doesn't our government, our Congress, our State Legislautures and our fucking courts have better things to do than go over and over this same old mess?

Jesus, hundreds of thousands died not less than a few months ago in a natural (god caused) disaster and I didn't see a TENTH of the fucking effort being expended here to save a turnip as opposed to millions suffering in Asia.

Shame. Motherfucking shame on these bastards.

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2005-03-23 08:42pm

Uh Elfdar, Durandel was agreeing with you. Take your reaction meter of "knee jerk" and reread his post. Slowly. Now imagine emoticons, which he chose not to employ because he thought his intent and tone was stunningly obvious.

Nice link though.

Firefox · Post by **Firefox** » 2005-03-23 08:43pm

... I don't think Elfdart was taking Durandal seriously.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2005-03-23 08:46pm

Iceberg wrote:Oh what a tangled web we weave... apparently, the Schindlers' doctors (the ones they called as expert witnesses) break down as follows:

1: The first, Dr. Maxfield is not a neurologist at all but a radiologist. Unsurprisingly, his statements regarding Ms. Schiavo are not particularly quantitative, limited to more or less saying the same things her layperson parents have said. However...

2: The second, Dr. Hammesfahr, is decidedly a quack. The demonstrative tests showed an astonishingly low standard of what a "hit" was - in my own opinion (having seen the video, which is one of the most depressing things I've ever seen, making Requiem for a Dream seem downright uplifting by comparison), his standards would make your average "psychic researcher" blush for their sheer audacity.

So a doctor testifying out of his specialty, and a quack, are supposed to override three qualified neurologists. In what poker world, exactly, does a deuce and a joker beat three of a kind?

It's actually worse than that. Dr Hammesfahr is billed as a doctor nominated for a Nobel Prize.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200503220009

Dubious doctor touted as Nobel Prize nominee by Hannity, Scarborough

Fox News host Sean Hannity and MSNBC host Joe Scarborough both promoted Dr. William Hammesfahr's false claim that he is a Nobel Prize nominee.

Hammesfahr, a Florida neurologist disciplined in 2003 by the Florida Board of Medicine who claims he can help Terri Schiavo, testified during an October 2002 court hearing on the Schiavo case that his claim to be a Nobel nominee is based on a letter written by Rep. Mike Bilirakis (R-FL) recommending him for the prize. But Bilirakis is not qualified to make a valid nomination under the Nobel rules.

According to the process posted on the Nobel Prize website, the Nobel Assembly sends out invitations to approximately 3,000 people who are allowed to propose candidates. The 3,000 are "mainly members of the Nobel Assembly, previous prize winners, and a selection of professors at universities around the world." In providing detailed information about those who can submit nominations, the site states:

Right to submit proposals for the award of the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine, based on the principle of competence and universality, shall by statute be enjoyed by:

Members of the Nobel Assembly at Karolinska Institutet, Stockholm;
Swedish and foreign members of the medical class of the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences;
Nobel Laureates in Physiology or Medicine;
Members of the Nobel Committee not qualified under paragraph 1 above;
Holders of established posts as professors at the faculties of medicine in Sweden and holders of similar posts at the faculties of medicine or similar institutions in Denmark, Finland, Iceland and Norway;
Holders of similar posts at no fewer than six other faculties of medicine selected by the Assembly, with a view to ensuring the appropriate distribution of the task among various countries and their seats of learning; and
Practitioners of natural sciences whom the Assembly may otherwise see fit to approach.
Decisions concerning the selection of the persons appointed under paragraphs 6 and 7 above are taken before the end of May each year on the recommendation of the Nobel Committee.

But the fact that Bilirakis is not qualified to nominate Nobel Prize winners did not stop Scarborough or Hannity from referring to Hammesfahr as a Nobel Prize nominee. Hannity did so a total of eight times during a single hour-long program; Scarborough made the reference four times. Additionally, Scarborough erroneously claimed that Hammesfahr has "treated" Schiavo; in fact, Hammesfahr has merely examined her as one of five doctors approved by a Florida court in 2001 to do so. He was one of two doctors selected by Schiavo's parents; two others were selected by Schiavo's husband, Michael Schiavo, and the fifth was chosen by the court.

From the March 21 edition of Fox News' Hannity & Colmes:

HANNITY: And we're going to talk to a doctor who spent 10 hours with her tonight, and he says that he believes, in his expert opinion -- this is a man that was nominated for a Nobel Prize, by the way -- that she could be rehabilitated.

[...]

HANNITY: And coming up later in the program tonight, we're going to meet a doctor who actually spent 10 hours examining Terri Schiavo. He was nominated for a Nobel Prize. He believes that she could be rehabilitated.

[...]

HANNITY: You were nominated for a Nobel Prize in medicine?

HAMMESFAHR: Yes.

[...]

HANNITY: You were nominated to get a Nobel Peace Prize in this work. Are you saying that this woman could be rehabilitated?

[...]

HANNITY: How is it possible we're in this position if you have examined her? You were up for a Nobel Prize. This is mind boggling to me.

[...]

HANNITY: Well, this is what I want to understand. This is your area of expertise that got you nominated for one of the most prestigious awards in medicine, the Nobel Prize.

[...]

HANNITY: -- hang on a second -- and talk to a Nobel prize-nominated physician who spent 10 hours with her, who believes if, given the opportunity, he can rehabilitate her?

[...]

HANNITY: Imagine being in his position and having a guy like a Nobel Prize nominee like Dr. Hammesfahr, who I'm looking at right now, who spent 10 hours with her and feels that, given the chance, he could rehabilitate this girl.

From the March 21 edition of MSNBC's Scarborough Country:

SCARBOROUGH: And a Nobel Prize-nominated neurologist who has treated Terri Schiavo, he says Terri should live and that her husband is perpetrating a hoax that is just aimed at killing his wife.

[...]

SCARBOROUGH: And I'm going to be talking with a Nobel Prize-nominated neurologist who has treated Terri Schiavo and he says her husband is pulling a huge hoax simply to kill his wife.

[...]

SCARBOROUGH: Coming up: a Nobel Prize-nominated neurologist who is treating Terri Schiavo says her husband is pulling a hoax.

[...]

SCARBOROUGH: So, what is Terri Schiavo's true medical condition? Here to help us sort it out is Dr. William Hammesfahr. He's a neurologist who was nominated for a Nobel Prize for his work in medicine. And he's one of the doctors who has treated Terri Schiavo.

— N.C.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Yeah, and I'm an Academy Award nominated Actor, a Grammy Award nominated singer, and NFL Hall of Fame nominee and a nominee for People magazine's "Sexiest Man Alive".

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2005-03-23 08:48pm

Imperial Overlord wrote:Uh Elfdar, Durandel was agreeing with you. Take your reaction meter of "knee jerk" and reread his post. Slowly. Now imagine emoticons, which he chose not to employ because he thought his intent and tone was stunningly obvious.

Nice link though.

I was quoting him back two lines from the same source!

By the way, what was that middle thing -about the police?

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-03-23 08:50pm

I'm surprised Sean got so much out that night the way he was servicing Teri's dad's hog.

Firefox · Post by **Firefox** » 2005-03-23 08:52pm

Have any of the news services (I don't watch FOX News often) reported on the falsity of this claim? I doubt it at this point.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-03-23 08:53pm

Firefox wrote:Have any of the news services (I don't watch FOX News often) reported on the falsity of this claim? I doubt it at this point.

Fox news and the right have been getting away with this kind of half assed lies and half truths for close to 8 years now. I can't think of any time that they have truly been called on the carpet for these things. They simply move on.

Pick · Post by **Pick** » 2005-03-23 08:56pm

Apparently the crackheaded asshole doctor admitted she showed all the signs of being in a vegetative state, but there was a 'sense of a life' or something there.

Oh my fucking God.

Firefox · Post by **Firefox** » 2005-03-23 08:59pm

I just realized, I haven't heard of any psychics claiming they've been in contact with Terri. Heh, very strange. Considering the controversy, I'd think one or two would be making an effort to cash in.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2005-03-23 09:01pm

Elfdart wrote:
Imperial Overlord wrote:Uh Elfdar, Durandel was agreeing with you. Take your reaction meter of "knee jerk" and reread his post. Slowly. Now imagine emoticons, which he chose not to employ because he thought his intent and tone was stunningly obvious.

Nice link though.
I was quoting him back two lines from the same source!

And kudos to you.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2005-03-23 09:39pm

Ugh, the affadavit filed by the neurologist in her parents' employ is completely spurious nonsense. Touchy-feely bullcrap completely invalidated by the hard evidence of a test given in 2002 revealing a flatline EEG.

Boyish-Tigerlilly · Post by **Boyish-Tigerlilly** » 2005-03-23 10:06pm

Anyone else find it irritating that all of the sudden the members of Congress who are pro-terry are now being referred to as Dr.? This applies to the ones that had previous medical degrees. I never heard them called that before, rather only "congressman" or "congresswoman." They are giving their "expert opinions" without ever actually examining the body.

Sam Or I · Post by **Sam Or I** » 2005-03-23 10:16pm

Anyone who takes nominations for the noble peace prize seriously need to think og some of the people nominated in the past. I mean Bush was Nominated for the peace prize. Love him or hate him he definately has not been a "peaceful" president.

Firefox · Post by **Firefox** » 2005-03-23 10:35pm

To say nothing of Yasser Arafat.