More on Terri Schiavo--UPDATE: Schiavo dead 31 Mar 05

[Alyeska]

ABC News Link

Fla. Lawmakers Battle in Right-To-Die Case
Florida Lawmakers Race to Decide Fate of Brain-Damaged Woman in Right-To-Die Case
By SAMANTHA GROSS
The Associated Press

Mar. 17, 2005 - Working on at least four fronts, lawmakers and lawyers in Florida and in Washington raced to prevent the removal of a brain-damaged Terri Schiavo's feeding tube but ran into opposition Thursday as the hours slipped away.

Under court order, the feeding tube was set to be removed at 1 p.m. Friday, in what could be the final act in the long-running right-to-die drama.

The Florida House passed a bill 78-37 to block the withholding of food and water from patients in a persistent vegetative state who did not leave specific instructions regarding their care. But hours later, the Senate defeated a somewhat different measure 21-16, raising serious doubts that lawmakers could reach a compromise in time.

"The last vote was a fairly emphatic statement that the Senate does not wish to go farther," said Democratic Sen. Rod Smith.

As part of the last-minute flurry of activity, Congress was considering legislation to keep the feeding tube in place, Schiavo's parents appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court, and the Florida judge who approved the withdrawal of food and water scheduled a hearing Thursday on a request from the state to keep the woman alive.

"Everything is a longshot," said David Gibbs, attorney for Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler.

Doctors have said it could take a week or two for Schiavo to die once the tube that delivers water and nutrients is removed.

Republican Gov. Jeb Bush has strongly urged the Legislature to pass a bill that would save Schiavo, as it did in 2003. That law allowed Bush to order doctors to restore Schiavo's feeding tube six days after it had been removed. But that law was later declared unconstitutional by the Florida Supreme Court.

The push, largely by Republicans, has drawn accusations that Bush and the GOP are pandering to the religious right. Some have also questioned whether the campaign runs counter to Republican principles of less government and more freedom.

"If that's your standard operating procedure, then how in the world can you justify putting state government on the back of the most personal decision a family would have to make?" asked University of South Florida government professor Darryl Paulson. "It's a political lightning rod fundamentally the wrong position for the Republican Party."

State Republicans said lawmakers have a responsibility to act because Schiavo cannot act for herself. "Sanctity of life is a Republican principle, and we stand on the side of sanctity of life," party Chairwoman Carole Jean Jordan said.

Republican state Rep. Kevin Ambler said: "This provides a safety net where the government stands up for the vulnerable who don't otherwise have a voice."

Schiavo suffered severe brain damage in 1990 when her heart stopped because of a chemical imbalance, and court-appointed doctors say she is in a persistent vegetative state. Her husband, Michael Schiavo, says she told him she would not want to be kept alive artificially. Her parents dispute that, and say she could get better.

Late Wednesday, the U.S. House passed legislation that would delay the removal of the feeding tube by moving the case to federal court. Federal judges have twice turned down efforts by the parents to move the case out of Florida courts, citing a lack of jurisdiction.

But Senate Democrats blocked the bill Thursday, and Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., acknowledged that his own Republicans were not likely to agree to ultimately send the House legislation to President Bush for his signature.

Frist said he would later try to pass a separate Senate bill and get it to the House before it leaves for its Easter recess Friday.

"If we don't act or if somebody does not act, a living person who has a level of consciousness, who is self-breathing, will be starved to death here in the next two weeks," Frist said.

The White House was cautious Thursday not to comment on any specific legislation. Yet in a statement, President Bush left little doubt where he stands.

"The case of Terri Schiavo raises complex issues," he said. "Yet in instances like this one, where there are serious questions and substantial doubts, our society, our laws and our courts should have a presumption in favor of life. Those who live at the mercy of others deserve our special care and concern."

Also, Schiavo's parents filed an emergency motion at the U.S. Supreme Court to stop the removal of the feeding tube so lower courts could consider whether their daughter's religious freedom and other rights have been violated.

Why won't this fucking case die already? What the fuck is wrong with the conservatives (we all KNOW they are the ones pushing this)?

[Firefox]

Congress is taking greater steps to stop the deadline.

(CNN) -- Employing an "extraordinary congressional" maneuver, House Republican leadership early Friday made a last-ditch effort to keep doctors from removing the feeding tube of Terri Schiavo.

The House Committee on Government Reform plans to issue a subpoena to achieve its goal, a statement from House Speaker Dennis Hastert, House Majority Leader Tom DeLay and Government Reform Committee Chairman Tom Davis said. Details of the subpoena were not immediately clear.

"The Committee on Government Reform has initiated an inquiry into the long term care of incapacitated adults, an issue of growing importance to the federal government and federal healthcare policy," the statement said.

"The committee's inquiry arises out of the case of Terri Schiavo, who is currently being kept alive in a hospice in Florida.

"Later this morning, we will issue a subpoena, which will require hospice administrators and attending physicians to preserve nutrition and hydration for Terri Schiavo to allow Congress to fully understand the procedures and practices that are currently keeping her alive."

"This inquiry should give hope to Terri, her parents and friends, and the millions of people throughout the world who are praying for her safety. This fight is not over."

The statement also said there will be a Senate investigation as well.

"We're on very comfortable ground that we have a federal interest in long-term care," said Ron Bonjean, a spokesman for Hastert.

The move came after the U.S. Supreme Court late Thursday rejected an emergency appeal by Schiavo's parents to stop the removal of her feeding tube, while legislation that would keep her alive appeared to stall in Florida's legislature and the U.S. Congress.

Barring further intervention, Schiavo -- a severely brain-damaged woman who has been at the heart of a legal tug-of-war for more than a decade -- is to have her feeding tube removed at 1 p.m. Friday, under court order.

With time running out in the case, President Bush weighed in on the matter Thursday, saying society and the nation's courts "should have a presumption in favor of life" on such matters.

"Those who live at the mercy of others deserve our special care and concern. It should be our goal as a nation to build a culture of life, where all Americans are valued, welcomed and protected -- and that culture of life must extend to individuals with disabilities," Bush said in a written statement.

Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, filed an emergency appeal early Thursday with the U.S. Supreme Court to stop the feeding tube from being removed, arguing that their daughter's religious freedom and due process rights were being violated.

But at 7 p.m., the high court rejected the appeal without comment.

On another front, the Florida Supreme Court rejected a request for a stay by the state's Department of Children and Family Services, citing a lack of jurisdiction. The agency had argued that it needed time to investigate allegations of abuse by Schiavo's guardian, her husband Michael.

In Washington, the U.S. Senate passed a narrower version of a House bill that would give federal courts jurisdiction in Schiavo's case. The House on Wednesday passed a broader bill that would give federal courts jurisdiction, not only for the Schiavo case, but for disabled people in similar conditions.

With the House already recessed for Easter, it appeared that a compromise bill would not make its way to Bush's desk, because there was not enough time to reconcile the differences.

The Senate bill prompted a terse response from Hastert and DeLay.

"House Republicans knew we had a moral obligation to act and we did just that last night," they said in a joint statement. "As Terri Schiavo lays helpless in Florida, one day away from the unthinkable and unforgivable, the Senate Democrats refused to join Republicans to act on her behalf."

In response, Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid shot back, "If the House Republicans refuse to pass our bipartisan bill, they bear responsibility for the consequences."

Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tennessee, said he was proud of the Senate bill and called on the House to follow its lead.

"To knowingly and purposely starve Ms. Schiavo to death would be callous, cruel and immoral," said Frist, a physician. "I am hopeful that the House will consider and pass this legislation quickly."

Bills in the Florida legislature also seemed to fizzle by late Thursday.

Schiavo, 41, collapsed 15 years ago in her home, suffering from heart failure that led to her brain damage. Lower courts have ruled that she is in a "persistent vegetative" state.

Schiavo's husband, Michael, contends his wife would not want to be kept alive artificially. But her parents argue she had no such wish and believe she can get better with rehabilitation.

Both sides have been embroiled in a legal wrangle over whether Schiavo should live or die. Schiavo did not leave anything in writing about what she would want if she ever became incapacitated.

Over the years, courts have sided with her husband in more than a dozen cases.

A probate court late last month ruled that, barring a stay, Schiavo's feeding tube would be removed at 1 p.m. Friday. Upon removal of the tube, the court estimated Schiavo would die in seven to 14 days.

Her feeding tube has been removed twice before, most recently in 2003. That year, Gov. Jeb Bush pushed a law through the Florida Legislature that authorized him to resume the woman's feedings six days after a court stopped them. The law was later ruled unconstitutional by the Florida Supreme Court.

[jegs2]

I tend to agree that Terri should be allowed to live, especially once we look at the facts around this case. She became injured under questionable circumstances, her "husband" refused to allow her to undergo rehabilitation and denied her medication for a time, and he has had a child with another woman through adultery. Moreover, I don't believe Terri is in a vegitative state as so many appear to believe. She is conscious. If the state is to put her to death, starving her is not a humane way to do it -- at least give her a quick death granted to convicted murderers through powerful drugs.

[RedImperator]

I tend to agree that Terri should be allowed to live, especially once we look at the facts around this case. She became injured under questionable circumstances, her "husband" refused to allow her to undergo rehabilitation and denied her medication for a time, and he has had a child with another woman through adultery. Moreover, I don't believe Terri is in a vegitative state as so many appear to believe. She is conscious. If the state is to put her to death, starving her is not a humane way to do it -- at least give her a quick death granted to convicted murderers through powerful drugs.

The doctors confirm she's in a persistant vegetative state, no matter what her parents say. And unfortunately, thanks to shrill opposition to euthanasia under any circumstances by the same people who are fighting to keep her alive now, her doctors could go to jail for putting sodium penthanol in her feeding tube. It's legal to let her slowly die of thirst, but not stop her heart with drugs.

[HemlockGrey]

starving her is not a humane way to do it

Why not? Like RedImp said, her doctors say she's a vegetable, and so it's not like she'll suffer.

[SirNitram]

Moreover, I don't believe Terri is in a vegitative state as so many appear to believe.

Go look at the x-rays of her skull. Her brain is goop in the bottom of the cavity. That's beyond 'vegetative state' and getting to 'You know, this is technically dead'.

[Seggybop]

So if she's effectively dead, then turn over control of the deceased yet still warm body to her parents to do with as they will. Then, all ought to be happy.

[RedImperator]

starving her is not a humane way to do it

Why not? Like RedImp said, her doctors say she's a vegetable, and so it's not like she'll suffer.

I'm almost as uncomfortable about starving her as he is. Even though I know logically she won't feel it, there's something very disquieting about it whereas there isn't with letting her die of respitory or heart failure.

Actually, I can't completely shake the notion that she's actually aware on some level that she's trapped in a coma. Like being sleep paralyzed for ten years. I'm trying to think of something more horrible than that, and I'm not coming up with anything. It's not logical, but it's good motivation for writing a living will, I think.

[RedImperator]

So if she's effectively dead, then turn over control of the deceased yet still warm body to her parents to do with as they will. Then, all ought to be happy.

Except if her husband is telling the truth, that's not what she wanted. How many people would want to be a living corpse? And he'd probably like to move on, too. And for as much as her parents are disparaging him for supposedly just wanting a cut of the malpractice settlement money, he is entitled to some of it and he'll lose it if he divorces her.

[Seggybop]

If she's actually dead, she's not going to mind too much. Also, as far as dead bodies go, hers is in a pretty nice condition compared to most (incinerated or infested with maggots) so there really isn't much basis for complaint.

[SirNitram]

She breathes, she digests, she oxygenates her blood. Of course, my comment revolved around the lack of a recignizable brain, and the fact modern medicine often rates life by brain activity.

I certainly wouldn't want to be trapped in a body without a functioning brain. If there is a soul, that would be a pretty nightmarish prison, a body you have no means to make interact.

[RedImperator]

If she's actually dead, she's not going to mind too much. Also, as far as dead bodies go, hers is in a pretty nice condition compared to most (incinerated or infested with maggots) so there really isn't much basis for complaint.

It doesn't matter if she doesn't know her wishes aren't being carried out now. The way we treat the dead--or the brain dead--is part of the social contract. We repsect the wishes of the dead because we expect our own wishes to be followed when our time comes.

[Montcalm]

Did anyone of those who want to keep her*Alive* ever stopped one minute to think about what she would want,i'm sure she'd want to be unplugged.

[Jalinth]

Did anyone of those who want to keep her*Alive* ever stopped one minute to think about what she would want,i'm sure she'd want to be unplugged.

That seems to be the main area of dispute. Her parents believe that as a practicing Catholic, she would not agree to any form of quasi "suicide". Her husband is stating the opposite.

It is sad that what is basically a family dispute stemming from a tragedy has been turned into a three ring circus. With many of the non-family who are sticking their noses into things having questionable motives (politics).

[RedImperator]

Did anyone of those who want to keep her*Alive* ever stopped one minute to think about what she would want,i'm sure she'd want to be unplugged.

The argument her parents are making is that she's not actually in a vegetative state. They base this on seeing her supposedly react to them while they visit. But her brain stem can be active and she can have reflex reactions to things going on in the room and she can still be dead for all intents and purposes. She's never going to be conscious again, but her parents don't want to accept this.

On one level, I really can't blame them--they don't want to let their daughter go.

I have less sympathy for the protesters, and I'm disgusted by the politicians. The protesters might genuinely feel for her parents, but they're sticking their noses where they don't belong. The politicians are intervening with the power of the state in a very painful family crisis in order to win votes. Fuck them.

[LadyTevar]

Still, there is no reason for CONGRESS to get involved, much less subpeona the poor woman!

[Ma Deuce]

Go look at the x-rays of her skull. Her brain is goop in the bottom of the cavity. That's beyond 'vegetative state' and getting to 'You know, this is technically dead'.

Would you happen to know where I could find those x-ray pictures?

[Stravo]

Congress just issued a Subpoena for her to appear before them on Tuesday.... NO, I'm not kidding. WHAT THE FUCK?!?! Don't we have better things to be doing then trying to save some vegetable?

A judge in Florida also just issued a restraining order not allowing the feeding tube to be removed. Remind me never to move to Florida. I have to keep reminding myself that Miami is not the rest of the state and we have dyed in the wool fundies and red stater morons running loose down there screaming about pro life yet happily prodeath penalty.

Why the hell are these people fighting so fucking hard?! Is it Jeb calling on some favors from his brother? Is it the general fundie/hillbilly mentality of these folks down there? Why? The woman is a fucking turnip. Let it be, there is no fucking quality of life left in her.

I'd like to see thse assholes protest and fight so hard when someone on death row is coming up for execution.

[Mayabird]

Still, there is no reason for CONGRESS to get involved, much less subpeona the poor woman!

One would think they have better things to do than worry about one brain-dead woman. You know, like running an entire country which has a population of almost 300 million people which happens to be THE world super-power. But they're politicians, so I guess not.

[Knife]

Lets not forget that Mr. Shivo will probably need a healthy cut of that settlement to pay off the medical bills for having his wife in the hospital of a decade.

[Stravo]

Lets not forget that Mr. Shivo will probably need a healthy cut of that settlement to pay off the medical bills for having his wife in the hospital of a decade.

I hear there's not much left of it. He's no fucking saint from what I've read, he's suspected of putting her in that state in the first place.

[Knife]

Lets not forget that Mr. Shivo will probably need a healthy cut of that settlement to pay off the medical bills for having his wife in the hospital of a decade.

I hear there's not much left of it. He's no fucking saint from what I've read, he's suspected of putting her in that state in the first place.

I never really thought he was a great guy, but if the scan's show she's a turnup, and she's still running up the bills while he can't have any of the settlement (what's left) to pay it off if he divorces her why the hell would he want to go down that route.

[LadyTevar]

Still, there is no reason for CONGRESS to get involved, much less subpeona the poor woman!

One would think they have better things to do than worry about one brain-dead woman. You know, like running an entire country which has a population of almost 300 million people which happens to be THE world super-power. But they're politicians, so I guess not.

Yeah, they won't raise the Minimum Wage, but they want to make sure Terry gets all her rights

[Rogue 9]

I seem to remember hearing that he's spending some millions raised for her healthcare by her parents on himself and his mistress, but I don't really know much about the case and don't recall the source for that.

[Vohu Manah]

A judge in Florida also just issued a restraining order not allowing the feeding tube to be removed. Remind me never to move to Florida. I have to keep reminding myself that Miami is not the rest of the state and we have dyed in the wool fundies and red stater morons running loose down there screaming about pro life yet happily prodeath penalty.

Another judge just reversed the order about 30 minutes ago.