Latest Terminator Novel

Post by **NecronLord** » 2004-12-16 01:57am

consequences wrote:I'm going to say that the lack of plasma weapons is Connor setting an example, and not letting other commanders hog all the plasma weapons for their personal guards without looking like big freaking pussies.

The thing is, when skynet learns where John Connor is, every terminator and HK within dozens of miles stops what its doing and converges on him.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2004-12-16 04:30pm

NecronLord wrote:
consequences wrote:I'm going to say that the lack of plasma weapons is Connor setting an example, and not letting other commanders hog all the plasma weapons for their personal guards without looking like big freaking pussies.
The thing is, when skynet learns where John Connor is, every terminator and HK within dozens of miles stops what its doing and converges on him.

Which is another reason for his team not to tote around things which have to have hefty energy signatures. It would also tend to lead Skynet away from him, as if the computer thinks logically, it would figure that Connor would keep the heaviest weapons around him.

Or maybe I'm just talking out my ass, but it seems very likely that the plasma weapons they acquire tend to get used in high value, high risk operations, and as a result, they don't get a long service life.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2004-12-16 04:45pm

I tend to not consider skynet having the ability to detect electrical energy from a distance. Otherwise it would have very little problem locating and eliminating every Resistance plasgun.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2004-12-20 12:37am

Revised BS theory:

The equipment required for recharging plasma guns is very power intensive, and is too difficult to hide from Skynet for it to be present at every stronghold. As a result, plasma guns don't get as much use by the humans, but the humans get to live longer. Any base that Connor is going to visit that has the requisite power supply has to shut it down so as not to increase the chance of the big man getting whacked.

In a few days, I'll have a new garbage outlay to replace this one once NL shoots it down.

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2004-12-20 03:35am

Here's a theory that is compatible with present-day tech.

* Plasma rifle discharges are distinct.
* Skynet keeps track of said distinct weapons fire, assigning areas where it is encountered the highest priority.
* Use of plasma weapons = succeed decisively and completely or draw the attention of Skynet.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2004-12-20 03:53am

The major problem with these theories is that all three films have shown the future war. With every grunt having a plasma gun.

The best explanation is that in the Allston timeline Skynet never made the mistake of letting Plasma Guns be reverse engineered. Essentially this means the Resistance is doomed to die, but still...

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2004-12-20 06:39pm

NecronLord wrote:The major problem with these theories is that all three films have shown the future war. With every grunt having a plasma gun.

I know. My theory is that we were shown full assaults, where hiding no longer mattered, or where its need was superseded by the need to do heavy damage.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2004-12-21 07:01am

Eleas wrote: I know. My theory is that we were shown full assaults, where hiding no longer mattered, or where its need was superseded by the need to do heavy damage.

While that's true of the second film (the assault in the beginning is the final assault on Skynet. It dies shortly after that scene) the first film's one isn't an assault, it's an ambush.

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2004-12-21 09:25am

NecronLord wrote:
Eleas wrote: I know. My theory is that we were shown full assaults, where hiding no longer mattered, or where its need was superseded by the need to do heavy damage.
While that's true of the second film (the assault in the beginning is the final assault on Skynet. It dies shortly after that scene) the first film's one isn't an assault, it's an ambush.

I know. I mainly saw the plasma weapons being used in the first film as "superseded by the need for damage". Note also that they didn't employ the plasma weapons effectively until T2. Canister bombs seemed responsible for all hard HK kills.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2004-12-23 10:05pm

In the second book, Terminator Hunt, two references are made to supply issues, from the statements, it appears that Plasma rifle batteries are not rechargeable. There is a briefing to the effect that since they just had a new facility on-line, they have sufficient batteries for general use, so they can afford to go back on offensive operations.
Sorry, but I just reread the thing for greater detail, it wasn't something that leapt out at me the first time through.

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2004-12-23 10:29pm

I don't really know enough to determine if teh weapon should or should not take out a terminators, just a couple of smallish points.

First, I thought the Wraith squadron novels were ok but far from great. I know, just my opinion, but I wanted to get it out.

Now, one to teh .50 BMG round. I just wanted to state that it is a very different round to most other rifle rounds. It has a muzzle energy of around 13,000 ft*lbs compared to 1,300 for the 5.56 round and 2,500 for the 7.62 nato round.

I am also curious if the shooter tried a second round. Military snipers are trained that multiple shots might be required.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2004-12-24 01:56am

Kitsune wrote:I don't really know enough to determine if teh weapon should or should not take out a terminators, just a couple of smallish points.

First, I thought the Wraith squadron novels were ok but far from great. I know, just my opinion, but I wanted to get it out.

Now, one to teh .50 BMG round. I just wanted to state that it is a very different round to most other rifle rounds. It has a muzzle energy of around 13,000 ft*lbs compared to 1,300 for the 5.56 round and 2,500 for the 7.62 nato round.

I am also curious if the shooter tried a second round. Military snipers are trained that multiple shots might be required.

There are very specific kill areas to shoot for, and it is incredibly difficult to pull off against a Termie that is expecting it. By the time the second shot gets there, the Termie will have moved, even if only because the impact of the first round shifted it a little.

The sheer impact does tend to shock termies into a reboot on a head shot, even when it doesn't penetrate a weak point.

There is a plasma variant sniper rifle that he introduces, with a much shorter range than a .50, but better damaging capabilities within its effective range., Even with that, it took three head shots to decap a T-800, although the guy using the rifle was definitely not proficient enough to aim for anything more specific than the head.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2004-12-24 02:39am

Just why are Terminators resistant to anything but plasma weapons anyway? Are plasma weapons really supposed to be that much more powerful than an RPG explosion or AP bullets? Or do Terminators and Skynet in general have some sort of achilles heel to plasma weapons? (I'm getting this because in the plasma weapons site of http://www.eterminator.com they mention phased plasma, what the hell is phased plasma). Also is the description of plasma weapons on that website canon? There's a section describing how plasma weapons work in theory but is that from some Terminator novel or just something the guy pulled out of his ass?

Brian

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2004-12-24 03:11am

Plasma weapons tend to overheat the target enough to cause it to lose integrity, an effect which doesn't happen with bullets, and can also cause overheating damage to circuity even without breaching the armor.
They aren't more powerful than an Rpg, but rpgs are a bitch to carry in the quantity you would want in heavy combat operations against an enemy that needs to be directly hit for a kill. AP bullets aren't something that will just be easily found lying around, will be difficult to manufacture, and require that much more strain on logistics to keep units supplied. There's also the fact that the regular firearms we see used may already have AP bullets to get the effect that they do, given the fact that a Barrett can't guarantee a one shot kill without exquisite placement.

Shroom Man 777 · Post by **Shroom Man 777** » 2004-12-24 05:12am

Terminatorverse plasma bolts travel very fast, they're very hot, they can melt through metal and interior components, fuck things up with heat and fuck things up with kinetic energy. It has all of the advantages of a bullet (aside from cheapness) and even more.

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2004-12-24 05:54am

Yes, remember folks, it wasn't the RPG that messed up the T-X's arm, it was the plasma cannon misfiring.

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2004-12-24 09:11am

SylasGaunt wrote:Yes, remember folks, it wasn't the RPG that messed up the T-X's arm, it was the plasma cannon misfiring.

To be fair, the TX has to be considered a high-end unit.

Shroom Man 777 · Post by **Shroom Man 777** » 2004-12-24 10:53am

What? So we'll use RPGs for assault rifles?

Post by **NecronLord** » 2004-12-24 11:04am

Eleas wrote:To be fair, the TX has to be considered a high-end unit.

Nope. They're skynet's replacement for the basic skeleton you see in the film. To the point where it's sending the old skeletons off on suicide missions or just dumping them out in a valley until it finds a use for them.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2004-12-24 11:06am

Kitsune wrote: Now, one to teh .50 BMG round. I just wanted to state that it is a very different round to most other rifle rounds. It has a muzzle energy of around 13,000 ft*lbs compared to 1,300 for the 5.56 round and 2,500 for the 7.62 nato round.

I am also curious if the shooter tried a second round. Military snipers are trained that multiple shots might be required.

I don't recall, and even so, bullets are preciouspreciousprecious in the future.

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2004-12-24 12:18pm

NecronLord wrote:
Eleas wrote:To be fair, the TX has to be considered a high-end unit.
Nope. They're skynet's replacement for the basic skeleton you see in the film. To the point where it's sending the old skeletons off on suicide missions or just dumping them out in a valley until it finds a use for them.

Ah. I had no idea. I thought the polymimetics were special units, and the TX a cut above the T1000.

But I don't get it. What's so wrong with the old T-X00 skeletons? And why waste the skeletons you do have when you can use them to wreak havoc? It's not like they need a continuous supply of fuel.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2004-12-24 01:53pm

The Polymemetic alloy isn't present on all T-Xes.

And nothing's wrong with them. It's just using them up as quickly as possible to reduce the effort in maintaining them.

Enigma · Post by **Enigma** » 2004-12-24 01:55pm

So what would be the best Terminator type to use against the resistance? The termies up to T-850 aren't doing the job since as was mentioned Skynet lost in the T-1 flashback. Would it been different if Skynet mass produced the T-1000s and use them en masse against the resistance? Or mass produce the T-Xs or a mix of both?

Shroom Man 777 · Post by **Shroom Man 777** » 2004-12-24 02:39pm

The T-X (without the poly alloy) was meant to replace the front line units. The T-1000 was too expensive to mass produce. In T2, it was experimental and Skynet was even scared of it, since the T1000's intellectual limits were unknown, and it was very, very tough.

And Skynet's loss wasn't because its Terminators or HKs weren't up to the task, it was because John Connor was really a Great Military Leader and because the humans outnumbered the machines vastly.