A couple of Culture questions

[Peregrin Toker]

1) According to the appendices to "Consider Phlebas", the first dispute between the Culture and the Idirans happened in 1267 AD - and the citizens of the Culture are generally described as being more or less human. This just doesn't make sense to be - I thought the Culture was supposed to be a future form of humanity? Or are they descended from some sort of time-travellers? (of course, it's possible that it's AD after their standard - but if that's the case, I think that Iain M. Banks would have written "1267 Culture Standard" instead of "1267 AD")

2) To which an extent can Culture citizens shapeshift? I'm aware that they can change their sex by just thinking about it (quite the achievement), but from "Consider Phlebas" I get the impression that their metamorphosis capabilities are vastly inferior to those of Horza's species, the Changers.

[Grog]

1) they are not humans from earth
2) I can't anser this but with help of technology they can do almost anything (in excession one changed species)

[Peregrin Toker]

1) they are not humans from earth

But they are supposed to be posthumans/metahumans of a sort, right?

[NecronLord]

But they are supposed to be posthumans/metahumans of a sort, right?

An Ancient and vastly more advanced (than the Culture) race seeded the galaxy.

Not that great an extent, nothing akin to a Founder or a T-1000.

[DPDarkPrimus]

2) To which an extent can Culture citizens shapeshift? I'm aware that they can change their sex by just thinking about it (quite the achievement), but from "Consider Phlebas" I get the impression that their metamorphosis capabilities are vastly inferior to those of Horza's species, the Changers.

Although a Culture citizen changed species in "Excession", it is never stated if they metaphorphisied (?) or if their neural net was simply copied and put into a created body. Personally, I'd say the latter, as progressing from a humanoid to a nine-armed octopus-thingy that breathes methane seems a bit hard to survive changing into.

[Vendetta]

1) According to the appendices to "Consider Phlebas", the first dispute between the Culture and the Idirans happened in 1267 AD - and the citizens of the Culture are generally described as being more or less human. This just doesn't make sense to be - I thought the Culture was supposed to be a future form of humanity? Or are they descended from some sort of time-travellers? (of course, it's possible that it's AD after their standard - but if that's the case, I think that Iain M. Banks would have written "1267 Culture Standard" instead of "1267 AD")

The Culture is acutally a group of 13 or so species who all basically answer to the description 'human'. It's not earth human spread to the stars though, it's just as close as makes little difference.

[Peregrin Toker]

But they are supposed to be posthumans/metahumans of a sort, right?

An Ancient and vastly more advanced (than the Culture) race seeded the galaxy.

Not that great an extent, nothing akin to a Founder or a T-1000.

And let me guess - this ancient seeder race is extinct to such an extent it's only known from myth and/or powerful artifacts they have left behind?

The Culture is acutally a group of 13 or so species who all basically answer to the description 'human'. It's not earth human spread to the stars though, it's just as close as makes little difference.

How closely related are they? Can they produce fertile offspring with each other (in which case they aren't different species as such)? And how different are they from each other?

[SirNitram]

But they are supposed to be posthumans/metahumans of a sort, right?

An Ancient and vastly more advanced (than the Culture) race seeded the galaxy.

Not that great an extent, nothing akin to a Founder or a T-1000.

And let me guess - this ancient seeder race is extinct to such an extent it's only known from myth and/or powerful artifacts they have left behind?

And as the Sublimed. I beleive one of their Sublimed is met in Consider Phlebas.

The Culture is acutally a group of 13 or so species who all basically answer to the description 'human'. It's not earth human spread to the stars though, it's just as close as makes little difference.

How closely related are they? Can they produce fertile offspring with each other (in which case they aren't different species as such)? And how different are they from each other?

They can interbreed and make offspring, according to a Few Notes On The Culture.

[SyntaxVorlon]

How closely related are they? Can they produce fertile offspring with each other (in which case they aren't different species as such)? And how different are they from each other?

If you can remember half way through the book, they can produce fertile offspring with old cousin species, such as the changelings.

For some reason I always got the feeling like the universe was based thinly on the TOS trek universe, except the earth's part of the federation isn't the most advanced bunch out there. Look up the notes on the culture article and that'll give you the answers to all of your questions, toker.

[NecronLord]

And let me guess - this ancient seeder race is extinct to such an extent it's only known from myth and/or powerful artifacts they have left behind?

Unknown. Banks says there's a story to tell there but he doesn't feel like telling it. No artifacts are known, and they're probably among the ranks of the sublimed.

How closely related are they? Can they produce fertile offspring with each other (in which case they aren't different species as such)? And how different are they from each other?

Unknown. Culture Science would easily hybridise any two vaguely similar species remember.

[Peregrin Toker]

And as the Sublimed. I beleive one of their Sublimed is met in Consider Phlebas.

I don't remember any. And I finished it about a week ago.

[SirNitram]

And as the Sublimed. I beleive one of their Sublimed is met in Consider Phlebas.

I don't remember any. And I finished it about a week ago.

The disembodied whatsit over the graveyard world.

[LapsedPacifist]

Unknown. Culture Science would easily hybridise any two vaguely similar species remember.

I thought it was mentioned in CP that one of the flaws in Culture medicine was that on some very rare occasions it was impossible to have a child. That may have been refering to the straight genofixed attempts at fertilization and not what can happen in a lab.

As to shapechanging. In Excession don't they list a long line of wierd creatures the rich-chick's ancestors had assumed as certain things were in vogue? Fishes and stuff?

LP

[Admiral Valdemar]

And as the Sublimed. I beleive one of their Sublimed is met in Consider Phlebas.

I don't remember any. And I finished it about a week ago.

The disembodied whatsit over the graveyard world.

The Dra'Azon appear to be Sublimed, though I doubt they're ex-Culture. They tend to just collect dead worlds like Schar and, uh, that's it. They don't take too kindly to folks invading them either, so that's un-Culture like.

[Peregrin Toker]

Ahh, that explains it. I wondered exactly what the Dra'Azon are.

[Catzilla]

The Culture also visit present day earth in one of the short stories in 'State of the Art'. Where it fits into the The Culture timeline though I am not sure.

[Admiral Valdemar]

The Culture also visit present day earth in one of the short stories in 'State of the Art'. Where it fits into the The Culture timeline though I am not sure.

The GCU Arbitrary picks up the magneticsphere of Earth and observes from a range around 1976AD and Contact agents, geneered to look more human, are sent to the planet around 1977. The fact that they see the premiere of Star Wars and even get the ship to create a replica of a real working lightsabre is evidence enough. They also love watching Star Trek: TOS repeats.

[Catzilla]

The Culture also visit present day earth in one of the short stories in 'State of the Art'. Where it fits into the The Culture timeline though I am not sure.

The GCU Arbitrary picks up the magneticsphere of Earth and observes from a range around 1976AD and Contact agents, geneered to look more human, are sent to the planet around 1977. The fact that they see the premiere of Star Wars and even get the ship to create a replica of a real working lightsabre is evidence enough. They also love watching Star Trek: TOS repeats.

I haven't read that one yet! It sounds good though....

[Vendetta]

It's in State of the Art. Short story collection.

[Grog]

It's in State of the Art. Short story collection.

yes and one of the stories in it is called State of the Art

[Grog]

It's in State of the Art. Short story collection.

yes and one of the stories in it is called State of the Art

damn I'm stupid ignore that message I'm too tired to make sense

[XaLEv]

Here's a rough timeline of when the Culture books take place.

Consider Phlebas - Second quarter 14th century. As I recall, it took place during the first phase of the war, described in the appendices. This would put it between 1327 and 1335.

Excession - 19th Century, possibly late 18th or early 20th; Exact dates are unkown. It is stated to occur 500 years after the Culture-Idiran war.

The State of the Art (in the collection of short stories of the same name)- 1977-1978. Stated in the book.

The Player of Games - 21st century, possibly late 20th or early 21st; again, exact dates are unknown. Stated to occur 700 years after the Culture-Idiran war.

Look to Windward - mid to late 22nd century. Took place 803 of the Culture's years after the Twin Novae battle at the end of the Culture-Idiran war. The Twin Novae battle took place between 1335 and 1367, most likely within the last ten years of that period. Assuming their years are the same as ours', this would place the book in the area of 2138 to 2170, more likely ~2160 - 2170.



Stories the exact position of which in the timeline is not known:

Descendant (from The State of the Art) - Occured during a war. Possibly the Culture-Idiran war, but that is not certain.

A Gift From The Culture (from The State of the Art) - The miniaturisation of the gun, combined with a statement in Use of Weapons by Skaffen-Amtiskaw that they can make pistols more powerful than the antique rifle Zakalwe was playing with, suggest that it takes place after ~2000.

Use of Weapons - To the best of my recollection, when this takes place relative to Consider Phlebas was not stated. It must take place after The State of the Art, however, as one of the characters, Diziet Sma, is present in both; as a member of Contact in TSotA, and a Special Circumstances agent in this book. The State of the Art was a letter from Sma to a man researching Earth around the time of official first Contact, ~2110, edited by Skaffen-Amtiskaw. It is stated early in the letter that 115 years have passed since the Arbitrary studied Earth, placing the writing of the letter at ~2092. It is also said in the letter that she has been gone for the past hundred days or so, with Skaffen-Amtiskaw, due to her SC duties. It's possible Use of Weapons takes place during this time, but I'm not certain; I'm not sure if it could fit into that period.

[Mlenk]

Does anyone have any idea of when Inversions takes place?

[SyntaxVorlon]

The Player of Games - 21st century, possibly late 20th or early 21st; again, exact dates are unknown. Stated to occur 700 years after the Culture-Idiran war.

Can't be, in Excession they reference the events in this book as the Azadian Debacle.