The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Eighty One Up

[Baughn]

The thing is, I don't think we could capture Yahweh. Kill him, sure, but I don't see any safe way to contain him long enough to, probably, build a concrete sphere around him. It's a pity, as he certainly knows dark and lovecraftian secrets we very much want to learn.

But if we did.. well, it'd only be a few weeks, tops, and then execution time. I doubt that's going to convince anyone we're weak.

[Spekio]

The thing is, I don't think we could capture Yahweh. Kill him, sure, but I don't see any safe way to contain him long enough to, probably, build a concrete sphere around him. It's a pity, as he certainly knows dark and lovecraftian secrets we very much want to learn.

But if we did.. well, it'd only be a few weeks, tops, and then execution time. I doubt that's going to convince anyone we're weak.

Hey yaweh, see this atomic bomb? Be a nice boy or it goes off. Now, tell us about Shoggoth, will ya?

[Nematocyst]

Ship him to Guantanamo or some well fortified place in Hell and have an Army Group watch him.
Or better even: since he's apparently very big (how big exactly?), we seal all but the human sized entrances to the Ultimate Temple.

[Lagmonster]

A lot will depend on if we can prevent him from using his powers, and the degree to which he is self-deluded, since you cannot easily argue with a crazy person even in the face of their own annihilation.

I recall Satan was capable of an incredible level of telekinesis, or at least demonstrating the ability to apply incredible amounts of pressure on any given target within range of sight. In fact, I could buy an incredulous, unrepentant Yahweh obliterating the palace and a chunk of the city himself if we marched up and demanded his surrender. He might be able to act like his own personal telekinesis bomb, lashing out in a fit of deranged fury the way Vader indescriminately trashed the operating room at the end of ROTS.

[Night_stalker]

Hey, if he does that, then Mr. Massive Ordanace Air-Burst or MOAB will have a talk with him.

[Lagmonster]

Well, that raises the question: If Michael did have a significant portion of the army ready to surrender, and the city surrendered, and the loyalists had already been wiped out in an earlier battle, but the palace hadn't surrendered and was locked down with the remaining loyalists and Yahweh shut inside and refusing to open the door, what *would* be the appropriate military/diplomatic response? Talk him out with negotiators? Hit the palace with special forces? Level the palace with artillery?

[Baughn]

You want the probable response, or the smart one?

We want Yahweh to talk. We need to figure out what's going on with this universe. As such, trying to capture him instead of killing him is the only sane thing - even if that means some humans die in the process. (Hey, they'll be back.)

In their current mood, however.. I'd give 4:1 odds that they'll decide to level the place, and only 50/50 odds that they use artillery for the job instead of, say, a nuke.

[Ilya Muromets]

This is Yahweh we're talking about. Humanity is seriously pissed at him for, well, everything. Plus, everything that's happened so far has only made that worse. Whatever they do, negotiation will not be part of it.

[Lagmonster]

I wish I knew more about how military commanders decide what level of force to apply to any given situation, coupled with how much intel the politicians have when these decisions are made.

More to the point, I would see Ceasar and even Obama yelling like mad to prevent the equivalent of a re-enactment of the sacking of Constantinople, when the idyllic heaven-world amounts to literally the 2nd lifer real estate bonanza of all time, if not severely irradiated and on fire.

[Nematocyst]

What about gassing the Temple? Really concentrated sleeping gas.
Or we can siege the Temple. We can cut off their food supply.

Also, a previous post asked if Angels ate food and was never answered, I think. The answer is that they do. Lemuel and Onniel both got mad with this

[Ritterin Sophia]

I'll be happy to continue the discussion over there; it only came up because it came up, so to speak, and I don't want to clutter the thread here with it. I would ask if you could link me to a good thread or two over there where said debate took place so that I could review it (I've never actually been into that forum).

The War of Southern Aggression: Who Started the Civil War

In this thread Rogue 9 links to a number of his other essays so I won’t have t post every single one of his.

Confederate History Month Lives Again in Virginia

A discussion from N&P regarding the blatant ignorance of a Confederate History Month.

Random American Civil War Question

This one is older than the reshuffling of the board that resulting in the History Subforum becoming a Forum in it’s own right. Page 4, you will find Stuart elucidating on how the secession was illegal long before it even began.


Note they're all older threads, but you probably need a frame of reference.

[Darth Yan]

it took warships designed to take out a ship to kill satan. i think yahweh can survive mortars.

[Jamesfirecat]

By the way Stewart, just to put another bug in your ear, now that Robert E. Lee has been put in charge (or at least become a figure head of) our efforts to help people with the torments they've been through in hell, you should have a scene where Obama is also visiting the US veterans of passed wars, and the two end up meeting!

[tricksterson]

By the way Stuart, since it is something we're talking about, what is the "Forest of Suicides" like in Salvation War? Are people just hung from normal trees and attacked by harpies, or are they cast into some kind of tree that devours the poor person inside of it at the same rate that they regenerate?

No importance at to the current story, but would be an interesting bit of trivia...

My thought is that they would be buried at the roots and the trees would slowly devour their flesh for nutrients. Since they'd regenerate this could go on forever.

[Night_stalker]

Hey, what about Generals Patton and Eisenhower? Have we found them yet?

[Kodiak]

Hey, what about Generals Patton and Eisenhower? Have we found them yet?

There's literally hundreds of people being rescued from the Hell Pit daily, and with billions of people in there I imagine finding one or two distinct individuals will take some time. Since they're processing them like immigration style processing, I'd imagine there'd be a website with "Today's New Dead".

[RowanE]

it took warships designed to take out a ship to kill satan. i think yahweh can survive mortars.

Why mortars? i haven't noticed people mention mortars, just artillery. That means MLRS and 155mm howitzers. And a few volleys of those will do as much damage as two cruise missiles.

[RowanE]

Hey, what about Generals Patton and Eisenhower? Have we found them yet?

There's literally hundreds of people being rescued from the Hell Pit daily, and with billions of people in there I imagine finding one or two distinct individuals will take some time. Since they're processing them like immigration style processing, I'd imagine there'd be a website with "Today's New Dead".

An un-obituaries page in newspapers? They could have, like, the obituary they gave for a guy, what circle he ended up in, and some quotes from him now.

[ANTIcarrot]

Why mortars? i haven't noticed people mention mortars, just artillery. That means MLRS and 155mm howitzers. And a few volleys of those will do as much damage as two cruise missiles.

Not entirely.
A typical antiship missile carries a few hundred kg of explosive, and it all hits at once at high speed and it's super accurate. A typical 155mm round like the M107 only carrries about 7kg. You'd need hundreds of the damn things arriving all at once. A 227mm MLRS unitary warhead does slightly better with a weight of 90kg. You'd only need a few of them to have a similar impact. Both also have the problem that even the guided versions have accuracy in the 'give or take a little' range.

Then again I've speculated about a alternative warheads for the M30 guided rockets before...
M41A pulse rifle 'stomp' with 85kg unitary HESH and terminal laser guidence. 6d*366 under GURPS rules. Pretty much one of the most painful things one ground commander can throw at another without calling in an airstrike.</nerd>

[Edward Yee]

Don't forget that there are guided 155mm shells such as the M982 Excalibur.

[Baughn]

Since we're going by normal physics at least for the angels/demons, if you hit them enough they'll eventually run out of energy for their regeneration. No matter how little damage each hit does.

There's no need to kill them all at once, and if you're in fact trying to interrogate one then doing it a little at a time is a far better idea.

[RowanE]

Why mortars? i haven't noticed people mention mortars, just artillery. That means MLRS and 155mm howitzers. And a few volleys of those will do as much damage as two cruise missiles.

Not entirely.
A typical antiship missile carries a few hundred kg of explosive, and it all hits at once at high speed and it's super accurate. A typical 155mm round like the M107 only carrries about 7kg. You'd need hundreds of the damn things arriving all at once. A 227mm MLRS unitary warhead does slightly better with a weight of 90kg. You'd only need a few of them to have a similar impact. Both also have the problem that even the guided versions have accuracy in the 'give or take a little' range.

Then again I've speculated about a alternative warheads for the M30 guided rockets before...
M41A pulse rifle 'stomp' with 85kg unitary HESH and terminal laser guidence. 6d*366 under GURPS rules. Pretty much one of the most painful things one ground commander can throw at another without calling in an airstrike.</nerd>

I like the sound of those stomps. But if we're going for biggar dakka i want to see BIGGAR DAKKA. MOAB, accept no substitutes.
(it's in the middle of a city, hence sticking to conventional weapons)

I'd expect a few hundred of those howitzer rounds within about a minute will mess yahweh up more than a cruise missile with the same amount of explosives, because of fragmentation. The missile probably just has its own kinetic energy, and the explosive force, since it's mostly an anti-ship weapon. With a few hundred howitzer rounds, plus masses of MLRS submunitions, you could completely saturate yahweh's temple, to the point where anything made of meat that's in there is reduced to the consistency of spam.

I don't really know what i'm talking about though, i just love the idea of that much dakka.

[PaperJack]

I think a single bunker buster on top of yah yah's head would be more than enought, and it would be overall much easier than mass bombardment.
Afterall, paradise is a very good area to fly aircraft in, therefore you can simply have a bomber flying really high and deploy gifts for all of the angels.

[westrim]

Hey, can we load a few nukes into a shuttle for its last mission, launch it into to orbit, then portal it through to heaven? Probably not, but I'd like it just for the fulfillment of Ripley's suggestion.

[Edward Yee]

Hey, can we load a few nukes into a shuttle for it's last mission, launch it into to orbit, then portal it through to heaven? Probably not, but I'd like it just for the fulfillment of Ripley's suggestion.

Most likely too much work, considering it's a "particular way to kill 'em" without much in the way of in-universe rationale.