Early Birthday Present: Turntable/Recorder

[Broomstick]

When I came home last night the spouse said he'd gotten my birthday present early (yeah, by about six weeks!). It's a turntable for vinyl records that can convert them to MP3 and record them via USB or put them on memory cards. If you heard a loud SQUEEE! last night that was me.

You see, I never got rid of all my old vinyl, which I've been collecting since we were still sending men to the Moon. Some of it is dirt-common and easily obtained elsewhere, but some of it is effing obscure and so far as I know was never made available in other formats. I think my oldest disk was pressed in the 1920's, the newest around 1985 or so, so while it's not the biggest or most impressive collection I did put some effort in the whole thing.

First disk was Roberts and Barrand Live at Holstein's (yes, I know you can get it on iTunes now but I hate re-purchasing something I already own). Holstein's was a folk music bar in Chicago me and the boyfriend-before-spouse spent many, many hours in listening to live music and drinking various types of fermented grain beverages. Big deal while the place lasted, and if you were heavily into folk music, which we were.

If anyone needs me I'll be dusting off my record collection. Some of this stuff I haven't heard in 15 years since my last turntable died. I just hope this doesn't resurrect my rummaging around flea markets looking for vinyl, although it would get me out of the house for more than just chores. It's not so much buying records that's the problem - finding one I'd want to own these days is a rare occurrence - it's the temptation of all the other stuff at such places.

[Zaune]

I've been meaning to get one of those for a friend of mine. What's the quality of the ripped tracks like?

[Broomstick]

As good any other MP3's... with a couple of caveats.

Short version: assuming good condition of the disk and a modern turntable, the MP3's you rip off old records will, for the average person, be indistinguishable from those ripped from CD's. In part, this is because an MP3 track has less information than either a CD or an analog disk.

Long version: Clearly, the better the condition of the disk the better the recording. Old time records are notorious for developing scratches, pops, distorting dust, skips, and other distractions. The dust can be cleaned off if you're sensible about it - mild cleaners, very soft lint-free towels. Scratches, unfortunately, are forever and lead to skips and pops. If the disk has poor sound quality so will the recording. You can, to a limited extent, clean up the recordings digitally (we've done it in the past with various software) but it's a pain in the ass. Try to start with a good disk.

If you're into really old music remember that it wasn't until the mid-20th Century that we had stereo recording (there might be earlier examples, but I'm talking about easily available stuff), and it didn't take off in a big way until the 1970's. If the disk is monophone you can't get a stereo recording out of it and it will sound "flat", "old", or "odd" to ears accustomed to modern techniques.

Anything before 1950 turn speed becomes a factor. 78 rpm was a popular format for 50 years because it gave superior sound quality over 33-1/2 with the technology of the era. Likewise, for a couple decades the 45 rpm sometimes gave you better quality than the 33-1/2. After the 1960's-70's this was no longer such an issue and indeed the 78 largely died out around that time. This turntable is the first one I've have in about 35 years that could even play at 78 rpm - for awhile they stopped making them with that capability. Clearly, though, this one is intended to be back-compatible with formats dating back to 1900 or so.

There have been significant advances that have lead to superior sound quality out of even old disks. Consistency of turn speed, better stylus/needles, lighter arms reducing wear on records, and so on. And probably some other stuff I'm not really up on, including electronics used for sound amplification. Modern turntables have electronics that can cancel out low-frequency distortion generated by things like the turntable's motor as an example. Basically, even an inexpensive turntable these days can turn out better sound quality than some high end systems of mid-20th Century tech.

A professionally digitally remastered track offered for sale these days will have the best quality, but the home turntable turns out some high quality stuff. When recorded as MP3's (which do lose some detail over either CD or turntable) I doubt the average person is going to notice a difference unless the origin record was in bad shape or has really obvious skips or pops.

I will note that prior to around 1950 or so "vinyl" wasn't vinyl. I'm not sure what they used, but it's fragile. If you drop one it can break or even shatter so handle those with care. They do have the advantage of being harder to warp or scratch. Vinyl, though, is less prone to clicks/pops from "surface noise". At least as long as it is in good condition.

There are still records being issued on vinyl. 21st Century issues tend to be more durable and better quality than those from the 20th. Probably because they're marketed toward audiophiles.

[Havok]

I got one of those for my Father in Law a couple years ago. They are pretty cool.

[Eternal_Freedom]

What kind of price would a decent one be? I've been thinking about getting one for my dad since reading this thread.

[Stark]

Is there any reason you can't use the device to rip to a format that doesn't suck?

[Broomstick]

The main reason I was given this was to play records.

Why can't you rip to another format? Because that's the only format it is designed to rip to, although you could probably use a USB cable to hook it into a PC to rip to a different format if you wanted to do so. If you want a turntable with different capabilities then buy a different one, but I'm sure the more high end ones cost considerably more.

[Stark]

Lucky I dodged that petulance! It nearly got in my eye.

So does it do encoding onboard, rather than being a source for another device? Oh well. At least you can move all those old shellac disks into storage that is a bit more reliable and portable before they explode.

[Broomstick]

Yep, on board encoding for the MP3 format - probably because so many people use that format now.

I think the old shellac disks are nearly indestructible as long as they aren't dropped. Late 1970's era vinyl warps if you look at it funny, though

[tim31]

If you weren't happily married Dan I'd swear there wasn't a romantic bone in your body.

[Zaune]

What kind of price would a decent one be? I've been thinking about getting one for my dad since reading this thread.

They're £79.99 in Maplins, but I've seen them going for half that in a local shop that seems to be a sort of Woolworths successor and this one is £20 on eBay. That one apparently has built-in software that encodes records in .wav format, so if you can actually tell the difference between an MP3 encoded at 96kb/s and a CD original on your sound system then I'm sure you can work something out.

[Korto]

You might want to give this stuff a try. If you can get a hold of it, since apparently it's not available in the US.
It's liquid you pour onto the record, which then sets into a rubbery gel you can peel off, and takes the dirt, grit and dust away with it, and it's anti-static. Although, as they say on the ad, it wont fix scratches.
Saw it being demonstrated, and it looked like a pretty good idea. Certainly be something I'd consider doing if I was about to copy the record to another format.


And Zuane, I've seen them (the record players, that is) in Aldi, but I can't remember the price. Maybe it was $50? Not any more then that, I'm sure.
Edit : Actually, Eternal Freedom asked the question.

[Alkaloid]

I got one as a present a few years back, used it to rip all my dads vinyls onto CD for him for Christmas. He's still to old school to understand MP3 players.

As to format, you should be able to get third party software to record and convert them into any format you like. Mine doesn't to it on board, and as far as I'm aware has no on board memory so quality wise I'm limited to however fast USB connections can transfer data, but realistically that should be fine.

[Broomstick]

Meh, MP3 format doesn't bother me a bit for portable copies. If I'm listening in my car or at work ambient noise levels (especially at work) will wipe out any gain in quality from a fancier format, and MP3's are so damn portable these days, everything plays them. Gimme a thumb drive with a couple albums on it and I'm happy. Clearly, some people feel differently (Stark) but hey, whatever.

Now, the spouse just HAS to have things play in proper pitch, regardless of format. He has perfect pitch and being even slightly off key sets his teeth on edge. My prior turntable he spent two hours adjusting so it would play exactly on pitch. This one seems to be on-pitch from the get go. Which keeps him happy.

Well, except when I play Beethoven's 9th three times in a row. When he's trying to sleep. Ooops. (Actually, he's crazy over Beethoven... when he's awake).

Now if we could just get to ripping all our cassette tapes, some of which are definitely starting to deteriorate... those are what need the software clean-up. >sigh< So many projects, so little time....

[phongn]

MP3s encoded with a decent encoder and at decent bitrates is indistinguishable from source, anyways (with a few well-known but mostly irrelevant exceptions). Newer formats more or less let you use less space for the same quality.

[Davis 51]

MP3's are indistinguishable from the real thing as long as you don't attempt to "enhance" it or clean up worn-down old records like that. I got something like that for my father a while back. If you want to digitally clean up old stuff, you're far better off using a lossless format for the initial recording, then converting it to MP3 once you are done.

Other than that, MP3's are perfect for 95% of everything.