Mrs. Obama Hugs Queen of England - question for UK posters

[Stark]

One would assume that because what exactly are they going to do if we don't? Deport the American tourists who don't show the proper respect at Buckingham Palace?

This is the kind of hilarious 'egalitarian' attitude that amuses me. When was the last time anyone got arrested for not following protocol with regard to the Queen? It's not like she can have me shot for saying 'sup fatso'. But oh no, it's a ridiculous thing to do something you're basically just doing out of etiquette and politeness. And when people point out non-nationals are barely even expected to follow these protocols, that's some massive concession since they can't enforce it with snipers or something.

But I hear it's a specific 'exemption' from the not-law for Americans, probably because they were so tough?

[Superman]

snip

That was kind of what I was saying, Starkinator. Drone mentioned that he didn't think Americans are "required" to show respect to the queen, which I was kind of jokingly interpreting to mean as being in contrast to everyone else who is. We have a special exemption or something. The idea is that Drone doesn't have to actually point out we're not required to observe those rules because nobody really is. I didn't mean we're going to rebel against the Queen's rules because of a "what are you going to do about it" kind of thing.

My execution may have been bad, but I still say the premise has comedic potential.

[Ilya Muromets]

Well, guessing from most of what's been seen so far, it doesn't nearly seem like much of a faux pas at all. At least, the reactions seem to be generally "meh" with the exception of a few people from what I can tell from a quick Google search of related articles.

Off-topic; who coined "First Lady"? It's awfully aristocratic for a republic, isn't it? If Hillary had won, would Bill have been the "First Lord"?

Realistically? Probably the "first man." Lady has contexts besides indicating nobility.

I'd think "First Gentleman" would be more applicable, actually. Of course, I'm basing that on the term used to refer to the husband of the Philippine President, but it sounds about right. And like Lady, Gentleman also has context other than nobility-related ones.

Edited for grammar and clarification.

[Superman]

I'm pretty sure Bush once called the queen old by mistake then winked at her. The Obamas couldn't have done anything in even close to that. And in the early 90's, during a visit to see Bush senior at the White House, he tried to joke around with her by saying that he was the black sheep of his family, then followed that up by asking who her black sheep is.

[Stuart Mackey]

I don't get this whole 'etiquette' issue over this hug, the Queen is well known for going with the flow of the people that she meets. to make them feel comfortable, and this has been well publicised for decades and a little bit of research would have revealed it.

[Stuart Mackey]

snip

That was kind of what I was saying, Starkinator. Drone mentioned that he didn't think Americans are "required" to show respect to the queen, which I was kind of jokingly interpreting to mean as being in contrast to everyone else who is. We have a special exemption or something. The idea is that Drone doesn't have to actually point out we're not required to observe those rules because nobody really is. I didn't mean we're going to rebel against the Queen's rules because of a "what are you going to do about it" kind of thing.

My execution may have been bad, but I still say the premise has comedic potential.

I don't get this, there is no law that requires any one to bow, curtsy or anything else, (it hardly happens in NZ and she is our Queen as well) just don't give the a firm handshake is all, apparently she has kind of delecate hands and has to shake a lot of them.

But all this sort of thing remind's me of when Clinton came to NZ and the US Secret Service trying to throw their weight around like they expected us to bow and scrape to them, and everyone was just laughing in their face and doing what ever we pleased, hilarious.

[Mayabird]

Off-topic; who coined "First Lady"? It's awfully aristocratic for a republic, isn't it? If Hillary had won, would Bill have been the "First Lord"?

Realistically? Probably the "first man." Lady has contexts besides indicating nobility.

I'd think "First Gentleman" would be more applicable, actually. Of course, I'm basing that on the term used to refer to the husband of the Philippine President, but it sounds about right. And like Lady, Gentleman also has context other than nobility-related ones.

Edited for grammar and clarification.

Yes, it's "First Gentleman," telling from some other lists, like the husbands of U.S. governors. "Ladies and gentlemen" and the like. It's respectful without going overboard into nobility titles.

Seems the "First Lady" thing started in 1849 in the U.S., but was used intermittently and erratically for a while.

[FSTargetDrone]

Drone mentioned that he didn't think Americans are "required" to show respect to the queen, which I was kind of jokingly interpreting to mean as being in contrast to everyone else who is. We have a special exemption or something. The idea is that Drone doesn't have to actually point out we're not required to observe those rules because nobody really is. I didn't mean we're going to rebel against the Queen's rules because of a "what are you going to do about it" kind of thing.

I think we are on the same page here and I didn't mean to suggest or imply that Americans are not required to show "respect" to the Queen or any other head of state. I would certainly hope everyone would show her some sort of respect, the same we'd show to anyone else visiting the country, be they the Queen or one of her subjects. However, if you look at her last visit to the US, there was noise in some elements of the press here about how US citizens who met the Queen actually did bow when meeting her. The horror! I don't care if someone bows or not. It's fine, whatever. In any case, I even said on the first page that it was my understanding that even British subjects are no longer "required" to bow/curtsey. If I was expected to bow before the Queen, given a hypothetical meeting, I would probably do so. Given the choice, I would not, but I'm also not interested in going out of my way to offend local sensibilities. I'm not personally offended by the idea of giving a polite bow to a Royal, it's just not something I'd do on my own.

One thing I don't understand, what is it with those hideous hats Camilla wears? Every time I see her on TV she has this monstrous piece of headgear on with one of more feathers coming out of it. It looks like she had a high impact collision with a occupied bird's nest. Yeesh! I'll say one thing about the Queen, she looks a lot better than Charles' other half. Better dresser, too.

[Broomstick]

Off-topic; who coined "First Lady"? It's awfully aristocratic for a republic, isn't it? If Hillary had won, would Bill have been the "First Lord"?

Realistically? Probably the "first man." Lady has contexts besides indicating nobility.

I've more often heard "First Gentleman". "First Man" would be a counterpart to "First Woman", "Gentleman" is the complement to "Lady".

But until we get one, who really knows what will stick.

[Revan's Fire]

I actually now live in a flat with more than a few Brits, and I was discussing this with my friend Josh (being one of the afoermentioned Brits), and he said that while there was nothing wrong with it, and that the 'ZOMG Contraversy' was waay out of line, he commented that it was indeed very strange to see an image of someone actually touching the queen.

[Ender]

I love the report that the Queen is very fond of e-mail. I get this image in my head of her sitting at her computer, forwarding chain letters, jokes, prayers, etc for most of the day.

[Stark]

I love the report that the Queen is very fond of e-mail. I get this image in my head of her sitting at her computer, forwarding chain letters, jokes, prayers, etc for most of the day.

I bet she'd have a Facebook profile if they'd let her.

[Ford Prefect]

I bet the Queen gets totally boss connection speeds, too. This story honestly amuses me, because it's making a big deal out of nothing. It was better when Keating did something similar and newspapers in the UK started calling him the Lizard of Oz.

[Tiriol]

I bet the Queen gets totally boss connection speeds, too. This story honestly amuses me, because it's making a big deal out of nothing. It was better when Keating did something similar and newspapers in the UK started calling him the Lizard of Oz.

On the other hand, though, I am under the impression that Keating is a royal subject of the Queen, unlike Mrs. Obama. There's a difference, albeit sleight.

[Darth Onasi]

There's nothing funnier than Americans being all 'omg whut' about the way etiquette works regarding the royal family, given their amazing deference to the president and the protocol surrounding the post. Being nice to old lady = bizarre?!

Well, one is a duly elected official. The other is a useless parasite sucking money from the common British citizen because they happened to be born into their inbred Germanic family.

Bitter? Me?

[Tiriol]

There's nothing funnier than Americans being all 'omg whut' about the way etiquette works regarding the royal family, given their amazing deference to the president and the protocol surrounding the post. Being nice to old lady = bizarre?!

Well, one is a duly elected official. The other is a useless parasite sucking money from the common British citizen because they happened to be born into their inbred Germanic family.

Bitter? Me?

If I've understood correctly, the British monarchy actually produces much more money in tourism and in their holdings across the British Isles than it takes away in government-granted funds.

[Hillary]

Apart from the faux-intake-of-breath coverage from the press, I don't think this really registered much over here. People were too busy getting ready for Jade Goody's funeral than worrying about royal protocol.

Things like this happen every now and again - I can't imagine the Queen gives too much of a damn to be honest. From what I've heard from people who have had to deal with royal appearances at functions, it is the minions who tend to be more concerned with this sort of "code" and if you can actually speak to the royal themselves, they're not so bothered about it.

There were no cries of "send her to the tower" certainly.

[Hillary]

There's nothing funnier than Americans being all 'omg whut' about the way etiquette works regarding the royal family, given their amazing deference to the president and the protocol surrounding the post. Being nice to old lady = bizarre?!

Well, one is a duly elected official. The other is a useless parasite sucking money from the common British citizen because they happened to be born into their inbred Germanic family.

Bitter? Me?

Of course, being born into the correct family has never given an American an advantage in the political system.

[Thanas]

Official court protocol for greeting the queen:

There are no obligatory codes of behaviour when meeting The Queen or a member of the Royal Family, but many people wish to observe the traditional forms.

For men this is a neck bow (from the head only) whilst women do a small curtsy. Other people prefer simply to shake hands in the usual way.

On presentation to The Queen, the correct formal address is 'Your Majesty' and subsequently 'Ma'am'.

For male members of the Royal Family the same rules apply, with the title used in the first instance being 'Your Royal Highness' and subsequently 'Sir'.

For other female members of the Royal Family the first address is conventionally 'Your Royal Highness' followed by 'Ma'am' in later conversation.

So...in reality, the queen herself does not require anything more than a handshake.

[Uraniun235]

If I've understood correctly, the British monarchy actually produces much more money in tourism and in their holdings across the British Isles than it takes away in government-granted funds.

I thought the royal family now paid taxes as well.

[Darth Onasi]

If I've understood correctly, the British monarchy actually produces much more money in tourism and in their holdings across the British Isles than it takes away in government-granted funds.

I thought the royal family now paid taxes as well.

The Queen does. Because she chooses to, probably a result of the public relations disaster that came out of making the taxpayer foot the bill for the fire damage to Windsor Castle.
Of course, what she pays is kept secret.

And I dispute that tourism would be adversely affected if the royal family were to vanish tomorrow; the history and buildings would still be there. Maybe they could use the revenue to pay those bee-hive helmeted guys to continue to ponce around all day for the amusement of foreignerrs.

[Ziggy Stardust]

Honestly, this whole thing is a non-issue even here in the US. The major television news outlets seized on it because they are all a bunch of worthless slimes. Outside of that, though, nobody really gives a shit. Hell, I work at a newspaper and a lot of people didn't know anything about it at all. It's just like that bullshit that Fox News, CNN, and MSNBC were harping on about after that Iraqi journalist threw his shoe at GWB, when they were saying some crap about how showing someone the bottom of your shoe is especially offensive in Islamic cultures or something. Throwing a shoe is a universal sign of "fuck you." Just thinking about the news coverage of that makes me angry.

[Jade Falcon]

And I dispute that tourism would be adversely affected if the royal family were to vanish tomorrow; the history and buildings would still be there. Maybe they could use the revenue to pay those bee-hive helmeted guys to continue to ponce around all day for the amusement of foreignerrs.

I wouldn't be surprised. The Palace of Versailles and Schloss Neucschwanstein both get a ton of visitors and the Bavarian and French royalties are long gone. Though there is a line in Bavaria that still has the titles they don't own the various castles that the royalty did.

[Paradox]

The press made a big deal about it because it was something to bash Obama about. If they really wanted a story they would have ran the one about the guy who ran his mouth and lied to Congress saying 90% of guns seized from drug dealers in Mexico were traced back to the United States.

They forgot the word "traceable", 90% of "traceable" guns were from the United States, which accounted for 12% of the weapons seized, all the rest are bought from arms traders. I don't know about anyone else, but I can't buy anti-tank bazookas, grenades and mines from my local gun store.

Pretty much there is 30% of the population that is eligible for voting that hates Obama, 30% that loves him, and the other 40% of us don't really care, since it doesn't matter which way we get bent over, we're getting bent over nonetheless.

[Stuart Mackey]

And I dispute that tourism would be adversely affected if the royal family were to vanish tomorrow; the history and buildings would still be there.

You may well be right, however as far as I know a very clear majority of Britons wish to retain the monarchy and the monarchy has long said that its continued function is subject to the democratically expressed will of the public

Maybe they could use the revenue to pay those bee-hive helmeted guys to continue to ponce around all day for the amusement of foreignerrs.

Those 'guys' you so disparagingly refer to are trained soldiers, some of whom are likely to have served in combat, and their role is as proper guards to the Sovereign; those rifles are real and loaded, as are those bayonets. Moreover I have also seen pictures of some of those guardsmen, guarding the palaces etc ,dressed in camouflage behind sandbagged emplacements with machineguns after a threat from the IRA, their presence is very real and not a mere amusement for 'foreigners'.