Anti-vaxxers start epidemy at Disneyland

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Irbis
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Anti-vaxxers start epidemy at Disneyland

Post by Irbis »

Infants Too Young For Vaccines Catch Measles From Unvaccinated Children At Disneyland

Nine cases of measles have so far been recorded in an outbreak in California and Utah, and the number is expected to rise. It is thought that many of the infections were transmitted at Disneyland. Predictably, most of those who have become sick were not vaccinated. Infuriatingly, two of them were children who were too young to get the measles shots, rather than being the children of vaccine opponents.

In addition to the nine confirmed cases, health officials say that three more are suspected. “If you have symptoms, and believe you may have been exposed, please contact your healthcare provider,” California state health officer Ron Chapman said. He added, “The best way to prevent measles and its spread is to get vaccinated.”

Unlike Ebola, measles is highly contagious. When its airborne, a single person can potentially infect many others by coughing or sneezing, particularly if they spend a day in a crowded place like Disneyland. If you spend long enough with someone who has measles and you either have not had it before or been vaccinated, you have a 90% chance of coming down with the disease.

Fortunately, most of the American population have been vaccinated. Although no vaccine is 100% effective, very few of the vaccinated people who attended Disneyland on the relevant days are likely to get sick, even if they spent hours in a queue in front of someone who was contagious.

On the other hand, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) recommend vaccination at 12-18 months of age. Until that time, children are highly susceptible. Two of the those infected during the Disneyland outbreak were under this age.

While measles is frequently fatal where healthcare facilities are poor, in the developed world only 0.1-0.2% of people who suffer the disease will die of it. Nevertheless, many survivors experience long-term symptoms, such as deafness.

In a population where vaccination is sufficiently common, it is impossible for a measles epidemic to take hold; there just aren't enough babies coming into contact with each other to keep passing on the disease, even when adding the rare cases of people where vaccination is unsuccessful or medically problematic.

However, by drastically increasing the pool of potential transmitters, the anti-vaccination movement has ensured that the disease can flourish, particularly in parts of California. Most anti-vaccine campaigners may not be consciously encouraging a disease responsible for hundreds of millions of deaths, but anyone choosing not to protect their own children is also putting the lives of babies they don't know at risk.
:finger:

Sad thing is, you can be similar anti-science imbecile in other fields and cause just as big damage, but if you hide behind "green" or "religion" shield you will find a lot of bleeping apologists defending you :wtf:
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Re: Anti-vaxxers start epidemy at Disneyland

Post by Elheru Aran »

Unfortunately we are going to see more incidents like this if the anti-vax movement keeps spreading. As logic starts to rear its beautiful face, though, I would expect certain institutions to begin requiring evidence of vaccinations. A number of private schools are already mandating that they will not accept students without vaccination records, and doctors' offices are telling parents that they won't take new pediatric patients without consenting to vaccinations.
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Re: Anti-vaxxers start epidemy at Disneyland

Post by madd0ct0r »

Is it bad my first thought was "that's a specific vector that should go into epidemic models?
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Re: Anti-vaxxers start epidemy at Disneyland

Post by Elheru Aran »

madd0ct0r wrote:Is it bad my first thought was "that's a specific vector that should go into epidemic models?
Kind of. You're an evil person. Happy? :P

No, but seriously though, places where you can expect massive crowds and large numbers of children really should be considered as potential vector zones for disease, and taking an unvaccinated child there is asking for trouble.
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Re: Anti-vaxxers start epidemy at Disneyland

Post by Borgholio »

No, but seriously though, places where you can expect massive crowds and large numbers of children really should be considered as potential vector zones for disease, and taking an unvaccinated child there is asking for trouble.
Potential? Have you ever actually BEEN to Disneyland? It's actually really rather disgusting if you look underneath all the bright colors...
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Re: Anti-vaxxers start epidemy at Disneyland

Post by biostem »

I don't know if any of you have played the smartphone game "Plague Inc", but this got me thinking of how you can choose your vectors there - they need to add "Amusement Park" as a transmission method... :P


On a more serious note, this and people that eschew real medicine in favor of faith healing really bug me - not so much out of concern for their own health, but for those who are vulnerable for other reasons - such as very young children, or the kids of these people who are denied these vital treatments.
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Re: Anti-vaxxers start epidemy at Disneyland

Post by Purple »

After all these years I still can't get over the idea that you keep vaccinations optional. Seriously, if ever there was a thing which warranted taking people by force, dragging them kicking and screaming and just doing it than its this.
It has become clear to me in the previous days that any attempts at reconciliation and explanation with the community here has failed. I have tried my best. I really have. I pored my heart out trying. But it was all for nothing.

You win. There, I have said it.

Now there is only one thing left to do. Let us see if I can sum up the strength needed to end things once and for all.
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Re: Anti-vaxxers start epidemy at Disneyland

Post by mr friendly guy »

If only we could vaccinate sufficiently just for a limited period of time such the disease gets wiped out. Then the anti-vaxxers can only whine, but the deed has been done. Humans have eradicated smallpox, and we on the verge with polio with several countries being declared having eradicated polio eg China, India. Unfortunately nearby Pakistan continues to reintroduce it to its neighbours.
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Re: Anti-vaxxers start epidemy at Disneyland

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mr friendly guy wrote:Humans have eradicated smallpox, and we on the verge with polio with several countries being declared having eradicated polio eg China, India. Unfortunately nearby Pakistan continues to reintroduce it to its neighbours.
Aren't there other countries where "suspicious Western doctors injecting our children with who-knows-what" is a distressingly popular urban myth? I remember news reports along these lines several times in the last year or two.
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Re: Anti-vaxxers start epidemy at Disneyland

Post by SCRawl »

SpottedKitty wrote:
mr friendly guy wrote:Humans have eradicated smallpox, and we on the verge with polio with several countries being declared having eradicated polio eg China, India. Unfortunately nearby Pakistan continues to reintroduce it to its neighbours.
Aren't there other countries where "suspicious Western doctors injecting our children with who-knows-what" is a distressingly popular urban myth? I remember news reports along these lines several times in the last year or two.
It also doesn't help when governments send in vaccination teams to covertly obtain intelligence, as was the case with bin Laden. Yes, it's a potentially useful source of intelligence, but it really does make life harder for groups who are actually trying to vaccinate people.
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Re: Anti-vaxxers start epidemy at Disneyland

Post by Elheru Aran »

IIRC, polio has had a resurgence in Africa because of superstitious fundamentalists (not sure whether Christian or Muslim, I think the latter though) in Nigeria refusing the vaccine.
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Re: Anti-vaxxers start epidemy at Disneyland

Post by Jaepheth »

Disney could require vaccination records for children for unfettered access, and then use the current number of vaccinated guests to set the number of unvaccinated allowed in the park at the same time to maintain a ratio conducive to herd immunity.

Though I'm sure the added bureaucracy costs would be prohibitive.
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Re: Anti-vaxxers start epidemy at Disneyland

Post by Purple »

Why not just ban all unvaccinated people from entry? Or better yet why not just vaccinate everyone by force and imprison anyone who refuses whilst taking their children away as a bonus?
It has become clear to me in the previous days that any attempts at reconciliation and explanation with the community here has failed. I have tried my best. I really have. I pored my heart out trying. But it was all for nothing.

You win. There, I have said it.

Now there is only one thing left to do. Let us see if I can sum up the strength needed to end things once and for all.
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Re: Anti-vaxxers start epidemy at Disneyland

Post by Elheru Aran »

You run into a whole slew of civil-rights issues there. Requiring people to provide a copy of vaccination records would be a potential violation of health privacy rights, for example. It would be a legal nightmare.

And compelling people to get vaccinated... while distasteful, may actually happen soon enough, but not without massive shrieking from all kinds of parties. On a state-by-state level you may start seeing school districts mandating that immunization records be kept current for children to continue their grade-school education, though, as they are the most susceptible to the various lovely vaccine-preventable ailments out there.
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Re: Anti-vaxxers start epidemy at Disneyland

Post by Purple »

Elheru Aran wrote:And compelling people to get vaccinated... while distasteful, may actually happen soon enough, but not without massive shrieking from all kinds of parties.
So let them shriek. Frankly I find that the greatest weakness of modern democracies is their lack of ability to tell stupids to fuck off and do as they are told for the sake of the smart majority.
It has become clear to me in the previous days that any attempts at reconciliation and explanation with the community here has failed. I have tried my best. I really have. I pored my heart out trying. But it was all for nothing.

You win. There, I have said it.

Now there is only one thing left to do. Let us see if I can sum up the strength needed to end things once and for all.
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Re: Anti-vaxxers start epidemy at Disneyland

Post by Broomstick »

Purple wrote:Why not just ban all unvaccinated people from entry?
There are legitimate reasons for avoiding a vaccination. Such a rule would exclude all people who are allergic to a vaccine, and all those kids dying of cancer for whom a trip to Disney may be a last wish.

This can probably be dealt with via medical documentation. Eliminate the "religious" and "personal belief" loopholes, at least for the park.
Or better yet why not just vaccinate everyone by force and imprison anyone who refuses whilst taking their children away as a bonus?
There was some of that done for smallpox, to eradicate the last unprotected pockets.
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Re: Anti-vaxxers start epidemy at Disneyland

Post by mr friendly guy »

SpottedKitty wrote:
mr friendly guy wrote:Humans have eradicated smallpox, and we on the verge with polio with several countries being declared having eradicated polio eg China, India. Unfortunately nearby Pakistan continues to reintroduce it to its neighbours.
Aren't there other countries where "suspicious Western doctors injecting our children with who-knows-what" is a distressingly popular urban myth? I remember news reports along these lines several times in the last year or two.
Nigeria had this type of conspiracy theory.

Amazing as it sounds, this conspiracy theory pervades in the West as well, although with different actors. Try and guess which billionaire philantrophist they think plans to reduce the world's population as part of the NWO using vaccines.
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Re: Anti-vaxxers start epidemy at Disneyland

Post by Adam Reynolds »

Purple wrote:So let them shriek. Frankly I find that the greatest weakness of modern democracies is their lack of ability to tell stupids to fuck off and do as they are told for the sake of the smart majority.
When there is a smart majority they generally can do something, even if not as much as they might like. The bigger problem is when there is a stupid majority.
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Re: Anti-vaxxers start epidemy at Disneyland

Post by Purple »

Adamskywalker007 wrote:
Purple wrote:So let them shriek. Frankly I find that the greatest weakness of modern democracies is their lack of ability to tell stupids to fuck off and do as they are told for the sake of the smart majority.
When there is a smart majority they generally can do something, even if not as much as they might like. The bigger problem is when there is a stupid majority.
That's another of the great weaknesses of modern democracies. They value the vote of the stupid equally with the votes of the smart.
It has become clear to me in the previous days that any attempts at reconciliation and explanation with the community here has failed. I have tried my best. I really have. I pored my heart out trying. But it was all for nothing.

You win. There, I have said it.

Now there is only one thing left to do. Let us see if I can sum up the strength needed to end things once and for all.
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Re: Anti-vaxxers start epidemy at Disneyland

Post by Lord Revan »

Purple wrote:
Adamskywalker007 wrote:
Purple wrote:So let them shriek. Frankly I find that the greatest weakness of modern democracies is their lack of ability to tell stupids to fuck off and do as they are told for the sake of the smart majority.
When there is a smart majority they generally can do something, even if not as much as they might like. The bigger problem is when there is a stupid majority.
That's another of the great weaknesses of modern democracies. They value the vote of the stupid equally with the votes of the smart.
true but Intelligence isn't something you easily assign value to without it becoming a way to suppress opinions that differ from those held by people in charge. It's a nessery evil to make democracy work at all.
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Re: Anti-vaxxers start epidemy at Disneyland

Post by Purple »

Lord Revan wrote:true but Intelligence isn't something you easily assign value to without it becoming a way to suppress opinions that differ from those held by people in charge. It's a nessery evil to make democracy work at all.
Not intelligence per se. But you could do some rather basic culling. Like for example, you could say that anyone who falls into the following categories can't vote:
1. Documented member of radical nationalist, racist, sexist, something-ist organizations.
2. Has been convicted of a certain group of crimes which are considered antisocial enough to effect their judgment such as child neglect or molestation, fraud, violent crime, belonging to a street gang or other organized crime entity etc.
3. Mentally ill or medically diagnosed as mentally deficient or a sociopath
4. Documented to be a member of a radical religious cult (as in a fundamentalist) or to belong to a cult which is considered anti social (such as for example people who go to a particular church where the pastor advocates bombing abortion clinics)
5. People who refuse to follow the rules of society (like for example refusing to vaccinate their children, or this lady here)
6. People advocating for radical ideologies outside of what is already mentioned (like for example regional separatists or members of PETA)
7. People who do not believe in the principals upon which the society in question was founded to the point of advocating publicly against them.

Obviously this list is crude. And you can poke a million holes in it to make me look stupid. But it's been made in like 2 minutes and it's only meant to convey the general idea of what I am talking about and not to be a to-do guide.


* Note, the term "advocating" is used to denote actual political campaigning. So a "something something advocate" would in the context of this post refer to an active and documented recurring activist and not just someone who showed up to a protest once or twice.
It has become clear to me in the previous days that any attempts at reconciliation and explanation with the community here has failed. I have tried my best. I really have. I pored my heart out trying. But it was all for nothing.

You win. There, I have said it.

Now there is only one thing left to do. Let us see if I can sum up the strength needed to end things once and for all.
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Re: Anti-vaxxers start epidemy at Disneyland

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You list basically comes down to "I don't like these people so I don't want them able to vote".

Mentally ill, really? So anyone who has seen a psychiatrist or gotten counseling off the list? Congratulations, you have now discouraged absolutely everyone from treating any form of mental illness no matter how serious or not serious. Oh, yeah, that's going to improve society. :roll:

The church/religion thing is guilt by association. Also falls afoul of the US First Amendment but if you're not in the US I suppose it wouldn't apply anyway.

Really, living without electricity loses you your vote? Granted the woman who went about it in the link did so badly, but that means any non-traditional lifestyle makes you a second-class citizen.

PeTA membership loses you the vote? That's just suppressing an opinion you don't agree with. Likewise your last point, which is nothing more or less than suppressing political change. If that had been in effect the US would never have abolished slavery, extended civil rights to all adult regardless of race or gender, or made a lot of other positive changes.

Your list is nothing more than a recipe for stagnation at the status quo.
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Re: Anti-vaxxers start epidemy at Disneyland

Post by Zaune »

Can we start a crowdfunding campaign to send a deputation to Andrew Wakefield's house with some buckets of hot tar and bags of feathers, please? That son of a bitch has probably run up a bigger body-count than Harold Shipman by now.
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Re: Anti-vaxxers start epidemy at Disneyland

Post by Purple »

Broomstick wrote:You list basically comes down to "I don't like these people so I don't want them able to vote".
Not quite but close enough. Basically, to take america as an example since it's familiar to you. You have the following things constitutionally enshrined:
1. Freedom of speech
2. Freedom of religion
3. All men are created equal
etc. And for good reason. They form the core of what your nation is supposed to be based upon.

Thus anyone who is a known activist arguing that these things should be thrown out is generally unfit to take part in the political prices of your nation. Add to that anyone who advocates things that are detrimental to your society and stuff.


As for the rest as I said, it's not supposed to be a to-do list but a rough approximation. So don't try and analyze it as such. You'll be doing the equivalent of criticizing V = a x t for not including drag, environmental variables and stuff. It's meant to convey the gist of things and not to be something you can reasonably use.
It has become clear to me in the previous days that any attempts at reconciliation and explanation with the community here has failed. I have tried my best. I really have. I pored my heart out trying. But it was all for nothing.

You win. There, I have said it.

Now there is only one thing left to do. Let us see if I can sum up the strength needed to end things once and for all.
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Re: Anti-vaxxers start epidemy at Disneyland

Post by Lord Revan »

the problem is that your list is practically screaming "abuse me to suppress disidents", there's no way you could use that list and still have fuctioning true democracy instead of pseudo-democrcy ruled by a de-facto nobility who are the only ones allowed to vote. there's so many things on that list that are outright impossible to define objectivly that it could never work as you intend.
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