Wikipedia killed the Britannica

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mr friendly guy
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Wikipedia killed the Britannica

Post by mr friendly guy »

Sing along in the tune of video killed the radio
THE Encyclopaedia Britannica will no longer have the last word.

After 244 years, the venerable reference books are going out of print, The New York Times reported, surrendering to the digital age and joining it at the same time.
Now, Encyclopaedia Britannica, once sold door to door and a symbol of educational commitment, will focus on its online operations and curriculum for schools, The Times said.
"It's a rite of passage in this new era," Jorge Cauz, the president of Encyclopaedia Britannica Inc., told the newspaper.
"Some people will feel sad about it and nostalgic about it. But we have a better tool now. The website is continuously updated, it's much more expansive and it has multimedia."
The last printed edition of the Britannica will be the 2010 one, a 32-volume set.
I had a 1976 Britannica when I was a kid. Of course my mum insisted I have encyclopedias instead of what I really wanted, a Nintendo. No wonder I buy all this stuff now that I am working. :D

Back on topic, this was not unexpected. Wiki is free, Britannica (printed edition cost money). Wiki gets volunteers to donate every year, which apparently make up their budget, while Britannica has to try and turn a profit. Still I am one of those people who feels a little sad and nostalgic about it.
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Re: Wikipedia killed the Britannica

Post by Thanas »

:( I loved Britannica because it is so easy to find something there. And books still offer greater flexibility IMO but apparently not enough....
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Re: Wikipedia killed the Britannica

Post by Zaune »

I'm honestly surprised it's taken this long, because it hasn't made a whole lot of environmental or economic sense to buy the thing in dead-tree format since the invention of the CD, much less the arrival of reasonably fast and reliable Internet connections.

Would it be excessively cynical to suggest that an outright majority of their recent hardcopy versions are only bought in order to sit on bookshelves and make their owner look sophisticated and intellectual?
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Re: Wikipedia killed the Britannica

Post by Ziggy Stardust »

This is sad, but only for sentimental/nostalgic reasons, I admit. Practically, it makes sense. For some reason, on a purely emotional level, it just feels "wrong," though, for them to go away.

I wonder if my parents still have our old set of these at the house somewhere. I remember, as a kid, going through them and putting little pieces of paper as bookmarks for articles on subjects I found interesting (at the time ... dinosaurs and Ancient Egypt, heh).
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Re: Wikipedia killed the Britannica

Post by Sea Skimmer »

It is sad for nostalgic reasons, but the paper format highly restricted the ability to have a photo with entries, let alone multiple ones and put a hard cap on entry size, which kind of undermines the advantage of a professional publisher being able to collect and revise large amounts of accurate data over a long period. Plus 32 volumes are just plain annoying in size and weight, last time I moved I ended up sending my Britannica to live in my moms basement because its just too many extra boxes to haul around when I'm going to move again soon.
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Re: Wikipedia killed the Britannica

Post by Lord Zentei »

Zaune wrote:Would it be excessively cynical to suggest that an outright majority of their recent hardcopy versions are only bought in order to sit on bookshelves and make their owner look sophisticated and intellectual?
Probably.

Personally, I prefer paper due to the fact that I find it more comfortable to read, and I don't like having to wait while my printer gets on with providing me with a hard copy (besides, in the long run it may well be more expensive that way). So while one undeniably one gets more information through the net, the preference for print is not just nostalgia as far as I'm concerned.
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Re: Wikipedia killed the Britannica

Post by mr friendly guy »

Lord Zentei wrote:
Zaune wrote:Would it be excessively cynical to suggest that an outright majority of their recent hardcopy versions are only bought in order to sit on bookshelves and make their owner look sophisticated and intellectual?
Probably.

Personally, I prefer paper due to the fact that I find it more comfortable to read, and I don't like having to wait while my printer gets on with providing me with a hard copy (besides, in the long run it may well be more expensive that way). So while one undeniably one gets more information through the net, the preference for print is not just nostalgia as far as I'm concerned.
True, I find paper easier to read than a computer screen. Although its faster to search on a wiki than say using an Encyclopaedia.
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Re: Wikipedia killed the Britannica

Post by Sea Skimmer »

Sustained reading I think is easier for anyone on paper, but who reads Britannica for long periods? It just doesn't have that much information on most topics. Price new looks like it was in the 800 dollar range, which is going to be something like 8000 pages of paper printing if you want it. The newest DVD version is 36 USD.
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Re: Wikipedia killed the Britannica

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I am not so sure if this truly is the end of the print version of the britannica. When Germany's largest encyclopedia, the Brockhaus (much better than the britannica anyways) decided to stop printing, they quickly reversed the decision after finding out print versions were still viable.

The same might happen here.
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Re: Wikipedia killed the Britannica

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Thanas wrote:I am not so sure if this truly is the end of the print version of the britannica. When Germany's largest encyclopedia, the Brockhaus (much better than the britannica anyways) decided to stop printing, they quickly reversed the decision after finding out print versions were still viable.

The same might happen here.
When did they abandon publishing and resume? That changes the dynamic quite a bit as all agree the publishing business is in a long slow decline because few books purchased mean higher prices on books meaning few books purchased leading into a cycle until micro printing becomes viable again. (IE Book runs of 10 or 20 to meet special orders)

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Re: Wikipedia killed the Britannica

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They abandoned publishing in 2005 iirc and resumend the year after.
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Re: Wikipedia killed the Britannica

Post by Mr Bean »

Thanas wrote:They abandoned publishing in 2005 iirc and resumend the year after.
Do they publish figures on the demographics of who buys their books? Since IMHO as I like to point out the people who vote to support Jim Crow, thought a television was extravagant and considered letter writing the height of communication. In Germans case I'd tack on, was there when they built they built the Iron Curtain. These people are not dead yet, still quiet alive and still have buying power.

Yes there still exists a market for something like the Brockhaus, but for how much longer? The upcoming generation was born with Wikipedia easily available, how hard will it be to convince people in thirty years to shell out for a giant reference guide then?

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Re: Wikipedia killed the Britannica

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Mr Bean wrote:
Thanas wrote:They abandoned publishing in 2005 iirc and resumend the year after.
Do they publish figures on the demographics of who buys their books? Since IMHO as I like to point out the people who vote to support Jim Crow, thought a television was extravagant and considered letter writing the height of communication. In Germans case I'd tack on, was there when they built they built the Iron Curtain.
I do not understand the above statement.

These people are not dead yet, still quiet alive and still have buying power.

Yes there still exists a market for something like the Brockhaus, but for how much longer? The upcoming generation was born with Wikipedia easily available, how hard will it be to convince people in thirty years to shell out for a giant reference guide then?
I think the Bildungsbürgertum is far from extinction and is doing pretty well so far. You will always need books in universities as well.
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Re: Wikipedia killed the Britannica

Post by Mr Bean »

Thanas wrote:
I do not understand the above statement.
It's something the under 30's tend to overlook since the Internet so radically shifted lots of behaviors. Was there a new parent out there who went out and bought an entire 2010 Encyclopedia Britannica for their kid who's just about to start school? Twenty years ago that might have been true but even without the economic downturn I'm guessing the chances of even the most studious parent is not out purchasing reference books for the kids leaving the only customers libraries and education insitutions.

And Thanas there WAS a big push in the 70s all the way to the mid 90's by the Brittani people to sell volumes on installment plants to average Americans.
Thanas wrote:
I think the Bildungsbürgertum is far from extinction and is doing pretty well so far. You will always need books in universities as well.
True but the other big place such books get purchased is schools which in America at least have shifted over to online resources because lets be honest a full thousand bucks for a full reference set is nice but the three computers you can get for the same price is going to see much more use and that's after you buy the license to use the online version of their books.

Lets be honest is there marked advantage in doing all the work of of assembling a reference book then spending the extra work to lay it out for printing then trying to sell those physical books. Or the much easier method of formatting for web reference then selling the licenses to access your works online?

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Re: Wikipedia killed the Britannica

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Well, suffice to say Brockhaus is still selling welll in Germany so I am not sure your theories are applicable here.
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Re: Wikipedia killed the Britannica

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Coming from a teenager, I would much rather read a Wiki/online reference than a physical encyclopedia. I still get the National Geographic and a few other subscriptions (partly because the full-page pictures are nice), but the bulk of any research I do is online.
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Re: Wikipedia killed the Britannica

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Wired Magazine wrote:I have never owned a print edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica. After the Britannica company’s announcement that, like the Oxford English Dictionary, it would discontinue its print editions to focus on its online offering, it’s clear that I never will.

I always wanted one. Growing up, my parents had a few different sets of reference books: a children’s encyclopedia my mom picked up at the grocery store, which I read cover to cover, and a set of World Books from 1952, bought by my grandparents shortly after they’d emigrated from Ireland. In high school, I took a Bulgarian girl to my senior prom, and looked up her native country in the World Book to learn that (I’m paraphrasing) it was firmly under the thumb of godless Communist oppressors. There it was, ideology in print, preserved for all posterity.

The mistake wasn’t owning an out-of-date edition; the mistake, arguably, was cracking the cover in the first place. The encyclopedia in the living room wasn’t a reference tool so much as aspirational furniture, a sign to visitors but mostly ourselves that our living room wasn’t dedicated in its entirety to that pagan idol television. That we were consecrated to knowledge, aspiring to something more than our surroundings. We didn’t have a computer; we didn’t have Britannica. Our World Books and paperbacks and stacks of the Detroit Free Press would have to do.

Print will survive. Books will survive even longer. It’s print as a marker of prestige that’s dying.

Historian Yoni Appelbaum notes that from the beginning, Britannica‘s cultural project as a print artifact was as much about the appearance of knowledge as knowledge itself. Britannica “sold $250 worth of books for $1500 to middle class parents buying an edge for their kids,” Appelbaum told me, citing Shane Greenstein and Michelle Devereux’s study “The Crisis at Encyclopædia Britannica.” [PDF]

In short, Britannica was the 18th/19th century equivalent of a shelf full of SAT prep guides. Or later, a family computer.

“I suspect almost no one ever opened their Britannicas,” says Appelbaum. “Britannica’s own market research showed that the typical encyclopedia owner opened his or her volumes less than once a year,” say Greenstein and Devereux.

“It’s not that Encarta made knowledge cheaper,” adds Appelbaum, “it’s that technology supplanted its role as a purchasable ‘edge’ for over-anxious parents. They bought junior a new PC instead of a Britannica.”

I asked Appelbaum about Encarta, Microsoft’s CD-ROM encyclopedia, because it’s an important part of Britannica’s story that’s easy to forget now. In fact, Microsoft pitched Britannica on developing a version of Britannica for PCs in the 1980s, with Windows 1.0. After Britannica turned Microsoft down, Microsoft partnered with Funk & Wagnall’s, rebranding it Encarta and focusing on a lean, computer-specific program that could help sell personal computers beyond productivity applications like Word and Excel.

Encarta is more important to this story than Wikipedia. It’s easy to see Brittanica going web-only as a story of “Wikipedia wins, because open beats closed,” and start making general statements about the fate of everything only if that’s the lens you use to see every story, in no small part because you have a very short memory.

Britannica went bankrupt in 1996, long before Wikipedia was a crowdsourced gleam in Jimmy Wales’ open-access eye. In 1990, the company had $650 million in revenue. In 1996, it was being sold off in toto for $135 million. What happened in between was Encarta.

Not because Encarta made Microsoft money (it didn’t), or because Britannica didn’t develop comparable products for CD-ROM and the web (they totally did, with the first CD-ROM encyclopedia in 1989 and Britannica Online in 1994). Instead, Encarta was an inexpensive, multimedia, not-at-all comprehensive encyclopedia that helped Microsoft sell Windows PCs to families. And once you had a PC in the living room or den where the encyclopedia used to be, it was all over for Mighty Britannica.

When Wikipedia emerged five years later, Britannica was already a weakened giant. It wasn’t a free and open encyclopedia that defeated its print edition. It was the personal computer itself.

Really, Britannica’s own logic was enough to do it in: costly multiple printings and biannual regular updates. But apart from a vessel for information, the primary reason for Britannica to exist as a set of printed volumes was to serve as a household totem. The PC has long since taken that place, armed with Encarta, then Wikipedia and Google, and now the robust information economy of the entire web.

When I was a child, my parent’s television was encased in a wooden cabinet. It was huge and sturdy, even more handsome and ornate than the simple bookshelves next to it, but clearly borrowing their prestige and power. Now, my parents’ TV probably looks much like yours: a flat screen, with a trim, dark bezel.

Now their television looks like a computer monitor. (They finally bought one, long after I went to college.) Hidden behind the television is my parents’ set of encyclopedias. Neither of these things is an accident.
I think Wired's take is rather accurate. Britannia's print edition has been circling the drain since computers became commonplace in the home. Wikipedia may've been the final straw, but Encarta was the real killer.
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Re: Wikipedia killed the Britannica

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I kinda dispute that because encarta sucked compared to a real encyclopedia like Britannica. Heck, it even sucked for school work.
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Re: Wikipedia killed the Britannica

Post by Zaune »

Thanas wrote:I kinda dispute that because encarta sucked compared to a real encyclopedia like Britannica. Heck, it even sucked for school work.
Encarta didn't beat the EB by being better in absolute terms, though. It beat them by being good enough to get by with while not costing an arm and a leg. Even in the mid-90s it was hard to dispute that a computer and a bunch of multimedia CDs was a better use of $1500 than a set of encyclopedias.
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