SDN World 3 Commentary Thread II

[Steve]

DISNA?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Look Ryan, quit ya bitching and start waging a proper propaganda war! I haven't even seen you post enough about that yet!

[CmdrWilkens]

Yeah, sure, demand of Spain that they bleed and lose their territory (which is pretty much guaranteed in the event of such a war) so you can be safe.

Well if Spain can't protect the neutrality of its territory Colombia has every right to enter it too in response to Mexico doing so...

They do have every right...if they could somehow overcome the numbers game that allowed me to assemble (and still maintain) numeric superiority with Ryan even before engaging our reserves. Attack Costa Rica would require blunting my offensive, going over to the counter-attack, and overcoming the still formidable logistic limitations of having only a limited number of rail lines to supply and reinforce his troops.

I've said this about a dozen times but its a race of around two weeks before my initial ability to assemble a numeric superiority at the point of conflict is blunted by Ryan's reinforcements and we reach stalemate. The only question is what will be the relative position of us as combatants when we reach that point (which will likely dictate the resulting negotiations)

[Ryan Thunder]

Somewhere around New Mexico City, by my estimations.

[Steve]

Oh, might as well say it now.

We've been too lazy to do this, or rather too occupied, but Shroom's decided not to play. So California's existence is retconned; Cascadia, Mexico, and I believe the USA will each be getting a piece.

[Czechmate]

Oh, might as well say it now.

We've been too lazy to do this, or rather too occupied, but Shroom's decided not to play. So California's existence is retconned; Cascadia, Mexico, and I believe the USA will each be getting a piece.

Could you retcon the RRA back into existence while you're at it? This viking helmet doesn't fit me right.

[CmdrWilkens]

while Ft Sherman fires off all its heavy shells after a day or two of fighting.

Battery Arizona at Pearl Harbor, which used a turret from the sunken Arizona (the other turret went to Battery Pennslyvania); had room for 280 rounds per gun stowage for ready use under protection.

So this comes down to:

3,360 rounds of 17.7" for 12 guns
4,480 rounds of 13.7" for 16 guns

So first problem...its 1 Fortress Division (the other is on the other side of the Peninsula and out of range by 40 or so miles) which means he has 6x 17.7" guns (or 1,680 shells) and 8x 13.7" guns (2,240 shells) but lets leave that aside (as well as the 18x 80mm guns) since those numbers are relatively close to what I'm going to calculate and talk about below:

Aside from reduction in accuracy against MPI over barrel life the US 16"/50 had a barrel life of 290 rounds. Meanwhile the Japanese 18.1/45 had a life in the 150-200 range and both of the comparative guns were produced two decades after Ryan would have made these so lets go with 250 rounds as barrel life.

2x3 17.7" Guns at 250 rounds each = 1,500 rounds, at 6% hit rate, 90 hits

Now for the 350mm guns, based on the US 14"/50 Mk11 (200-250), the US 14"/45 Mk12 (250), the British 14"/50 Mk VI (150), the British 13.5"/45 (300), and onwards you can see that extending to the L50 barrel seems to indicate lower barrel life but lets go midpoint and stick with 250 round

2x2x2 13.7" Guns at 250 rounds each = 2,000 rounds, at a 6% hit rate 120 hits


Now barrel life doesn't mean the thing is useless after that number of rounds but it serves as a decent aim point for roughly when he would no longer be able to accurately target my ships as his True Mean Error would continue to increase (and he would run out of rounds). The thing is during the run up to these points the guns would start to see degradation in accuracy and range that would be noticeable from call it 2/3rds of the way through barrel life.

What this really means is that he should be able to reasonably land 180 total hits before suffering increasingly severe loss of range and accurracy. Since I can rotate my units in and out of the engagement I'd be in fine shape. 210 hits distributed amongst 14 front line battleships equates to about 15 hits each...or 210 hits amongst 18 Battleships (if I brought the Mexicana or Virtuoso class in to play) works out to 11 2/3 (call it 12) hits per ship .... or I could bring both my BCs and 12" ships in to play so 210 hits amongst 22 ships for 9/54 hits per ship.

Basically nothing close to what would be needed to sink them short of a particularly lucky strike. I could probably leave my older 12" gun ships out of range entirely and bring my 420mm BCs in to play giving me 18 ships attacking with the other 4 just waiting to pounce on any monitor or cruiser that ventures out.

*Edit for the record, the additional 30 rounds/gun based on the figures you provided yield an additional 1.8 hits/gun or 25 additional hits for 235 total or 13 per ship at the given accuracy.

[Ryan Thunder]

So first problem...its 1 Fortress Division (the other is on the other side of the Peninsula and out of range by 40 or so miles) which means he has 6x 17.7" guns (or 1,680 shells) and 8x 13.7" guns (2,240 shells) but lets leave that aside (as well as the 18x 80mm guns) since those numbers are relatively close to what I'm going to calculate and talk about below:

Clearly you are confused. There are two battalions per regiment, which is below the standard I usually stick to, but frankly, 18 450L50 guns just seemed... obscene...

<snip>

Then there are more guns because I didn't know that, and refuse to be punished further for my lack of expertise on the subject. Accept that you can't win this one and let it go already.

Goddamn persistent fellows...

[CmdrWilkens]

Addendum to the above:

A 14"/50 based on the US Mk 11 will penetrate 13.75" of vertical armor at 20,000 yards and 5.3" of deck armor at 30,000 yards. My least protected ship has 13.5" of side armor and 5" of deck armor, given that Ryan is actually using 13.7" I should be effectively immune from fire between 20,000 and about 28,000 yards for his secondary battery. My 2nd class has 13" of side armor (but inclined at 12 deg) and 6" of deck armor so effectively immune from about 22,000 to 31,000 yards, My most modern class includes 15" of side armor at 15 degrees and 7" of deck armor so it would be effectively immune from 15,000 to 35,000 yards.

Cruising at a rough average range of 25,000 yards would make my ships effectively immune to his secondary battery and subject to penetrating hits only by his 17.7" guns of which he would have 90 strikes across 18 targets or 5 per ships.

[CmdrWilkens]

So first problem...its 1 Fortress Division (the other is on the other side of the Peninsula and out of range by 40 or so miles) which means he has 6x 17.7" guns (or 1,680 shells) and 8x 13.7" guns (2,240 shells) but lets leave that aside (as well as the 18x 80mm guns) since those numbers are relatively close to what I'm going to calculate and talk about below:

Clearly you are confused. There are two battalions per regiment, which is below the standard I usually stick to, but frankly, 18 450L50 guns just seemed... obscene...

From the wiki as of right now:

Coastal Fortress Artillery Brigade
Headquarters Company
Brigade HQ Section
Company HQ Section
Supply Section
Food Service Section
Maintenance Section
Chemical Section
Communications Company
Medical Company
Support Battalion
Fortress Artillery Battalion
Headquarters Company
Battalion HQ Section
Company HQ Section
Fire Direction Section
Communications Section
Medical Platoon
Food Service Platoon

• Main Battery
  
  • Battery HQ Section
    Supply Section
    Maintenance Section
    Communications Section
    Chemical Section
    Firing Platoon
    
    • Platoon HQ Section
      Ammunition Section
      2 × 3 × 450L50 emplacement
    
    2 × Firing Platoon
    
    • Platoon HQ Section
      Ammunition Section
      2 × 2 × 350L45 emplacement

[/b]
Air Defense Battery
Battery HQ Section
Supply Section
Maintenance Section
Communications Section
Chemical Section
3 × Air Defense Platoon
Platoon HQ Section
Ammunition Section
3 × Air Defense Section
2 × 80L60 anti-aircraft emplacement
Fortress Weapons Company
Company HQ Section
Supply Section
Food Service Section
Communications Section
Chemical Section
6 × Weapons Platoon
Platoon HQ Section
Ammunition Section
3 × Weapons Squad
3 × Automatic Rifle Crew

Emphasis mine. You list a single Main Battery per coastal fortress division with 1 Battery of 2x3 and 2 batterys of 2x2

[CmdrWilkens]

More specifically you list ONE Fortress Artillery BN with ONE Main Battery

[Ryan Thunder]

More specifically you list ONE Fortress Artillery BN with ONE Main Battery

Must be a typo. I usually pick the numbers before I work out the unit organization. In this case I suppose I must've worked it out in another window and then pasted it in.

And what kind of brigade only has one business batallion in it anyway?

[CmdrWilkens]

More specifically you list ONE Fortress Artillery BN with ONE Main Battery

Must be a typo. I usually pick the numbers before I work out the unit organization. In this case I suppose I must've worked it out in another window and then pasted it in.

And what kind of brigade only has one business batallion in it anyway?

Yours apparently.

[Steve]

Okay, new set of rolls for the Panama War.

If you all only appreciated the time this takes...

First off, Wilkens' troops advance on Penonome. A brigade of Colombian Rangers remain behind to use concrete traps and such to render the railroad temporarily unusuable.

[00:20] sbbigsteve: Okay, Wilkens, we're rolling on your coast-wise advance. Honestly you'll advance far under no opposition, but a low roll indicates his rangers were able to do major damage.
[00:21] sbbigsteve: So the rails were mostly intact.
[00:21] nerd359: Ok
[00:21] dagorladsurvivor: I meant your SDN handle, but okay
[00:21] nerd359: Main roll
[00:21] cmdrwilkens: Its "// roll dice-3 sides-6" right?
[00:21] sbbigsteve: The brigade of rangers were forced to retreat by too speedy an advance by Mexican forces.
[00:21] nerd359: <IE real thing>
[00:21] sbbigsteve: .....oh, heh.
[00:21] sbbigsteve: Good luck for Ryan then.
[00:21] nerd359: nerd359 rolled 2 6-sided dice: 5 4
[00:22] nerd359: shit!
[00:22] sbbigsteve: Ryan dodges another bullet, since that was a good roll for 2d6.
[00:22] cmdrwilkens: one moment, baby duty
[00:22] nerd359: I was trying to show a roll, but I didn't put a space between the // and the roll
[00:23] sbbigsteve: It automatically rolls 2d6 unless you do as I just IMed.
[00:23] nerd359: nerd359 rolled 3 6-sided dice: 5 3 4
[00:23] nerd359: 12
[00:23] nerd359: /18
[00:23] nerd359: Slows Mexico down, but not much
[00:24] sbbigsteve: I'd say some rail damage.
[00:24] sbbigsteve: That's a decently high roll.
[00:24] sbbigsteve: Not super-high, but high.

Sadly, the Mexican advance was too swift, and their obstacles were not extensive enough to require major work by Mexico to open the rails.

Next; The Colombian subs' had scored a few hits in their attack on the Caribbean Fleet of Mexico. 2 CLs were sunk; a third and a BC were hit but survived.

We rolled for those ships to return safely to Santo Domingo.

[00:29] sbbigsteve: Roll between 8-13 is one ship sinks fromd amage - if 10 or above, the CL sinks, if below, the BC sinks - and below 8 both ships sink.
[00:29] sbbigsteve: Somewhat high thresholds for keeping the ships intact, but torpedo damage is nothing to sneeze at.
[00:30] sbbigsteve: Any objections? I'll give a minute or so before the roll commences.
[00:30] cmdrwilkens: If they survived for the subs to withdraw I'd think the double sink shoudl be lower
[00:30] cmdrwilkens: The single sink level is fine
[00:31] sbbigsteve: I'll lower it to 6, but that's as far as I go; torp damage is torp damage.
[00:31] MarshalPurnell: Didn't establish a threshold for damage when they were hit?
[00:31] sbbigsteve: Generally, but we didn't roll for the damage, just for the general engagement, and Ryan only rolled 8 out of 18.
[00:31] MarshalPurnell: If they can get flooding under control and avoid a fire then even a heavy list can be survived.
[00:31] sbbigsteve: However, due to a complete lack of DDs in said force, even that low he got a torp into a capital vessel as well as hits and sinkings on the light cruisers.
[00:31] sbbigsteve: Well, that's what we're rolling for.
[00:32] cmdrwilkens: Fair enough by me, would that change the BC vs CL level for the single sink or keep it at 10?
[00:32] sbbigsteve: I'll let you keep the BC at a roll of 9. That's a 50/50 roll.
[00:32] MarshalPurnell: Generally if something as big as a BC survives being torpedoed the damage won't be severe enough to sink it later.
[00:32] MarshalPurnell: Unless a fire breaks out.
[00:32] MarshalPurnell: Though that applies to all ships.
[00:32] sbbigsteve: Hrm.
[00:33] cmdrwilkens: Cool, no further objections, a <9 roll means a fire did break out
[00:33] sbbigsteve: I'll let you keep the BC at 8.
[00:33] dagorladsurvivor: is anyone else thinking of the mittelmeerfdivision?
[00:33] dagorladsurvivor: BC+CL running away ;D
[00:33] cmdrwilkens: Good to go, lets roll (plenty more still to come)
[00:33] nerd359: nerd359 rolled 2 6-sided dice: 2 6
[00:33] dagorladsurvivor: (mittelmeerdivision, even)
[00:33] sbbigsteve: But a roll of 8 indicates a fire did break out and was contained, and so your ship is further damaged.
[00:33] nerd359: gah
[00:33] sbbigsteve: Heh.
[00:34] sbbigsteve: Miss a hyphen?
[00:34] sbbigsteve: //roll-dice 3-sided 6
[00:34] sbbigsteve: sbbigsteve rolled 3 6-sided dice: 4 1 2
[00:34] nerd359: nerd359 rolled 3 6-sided dice: 3 3 5
[00:34] sbbigsteve: Well, this is awkward.
[00:34] dagorladsurvivor: what was that roll for
[00:34] cmdrwilkens: So 11? The CL sinks? He has been doing the rolls
[00:34] sbbigsteve: You lose the CL.
[00:35] sbbigsteve: BC survives.
[00:35] dagorladsurvivor: glub glub glub
[00:35] sbbigsteve: We'll just average our rolls, BC still survives.

The CL, sadly, suffered a fire and would be abandoned and sunk as a result. But the damaged BC limped back to port.

(Basically, Timothy screwed up his first attempt to roll - AIM Chat is fussy that way - and so just as he rolled again I also rolled. Even if you average our rolls together the BC survives with a 9.)

Next up, Mexican Subs heading to Santa Marta and the opening of the Bay to Maracaibo to attack targets of opportunity, with the Mexican Gulf Fleet heading to Maracaibo as well to do the same.

Due to a sortie of the Colombian subs from Santa Marta, there was a chance of encounter and detection.

[00:55] sbbigsteve: 3-5 his subs spot your's, 6-8 they spot each other, 9-13 neither side spots the other, 14-18 you spot him but not vice versa.
[00:55] cmdrwilkens: sounds good to me
[00:56] MarshalPurnell: Submarines were basically torpedo boats that could submerge in a pinch.
[00:56] sbbigsteve: His force is bigger than your's so he's more likely to get spotted.
[00:56] sbbigsteve: (10 subs versus 20)
[00:56] sbbigsteve: Anyway, one minute for objections.
[00:56] dagorladsurvivor: I mean, this setting didn't have a proper full Great War and no atlantic convoy stuff so navy tech is basically 1914
[00:56] cmdrwilkens: Is he only going to detect the one strike or both?
[00:56] sbbigsteve: One.
[00:57] cmdrwilkens: Roll for each strike?
[00:57] MarshalPurnell: So they'd only submerge on approach to target, if they knew where the target was ahead of time, or dive to avoid attack.
[00:57] sbbigsteve: He has no subs out of Maracaibo.
[00:57] sbbigsteve: Just monitors and destroyers.
[00:57] cmdrwilkens: Oh damnit, your are right, so no subs comign from Caracas then
[00:57] cmdrwilkens: *coming
[00:58] nerd359: nerd359 rolled 3 6-sided dice: 5 3 5
[00:58] nerd359: 13
[00:58] sbbigsteve: Neither side spotted the other.
[00:58] dagorladsurvivor: you pass in the night
[00:58] nerd359: No spotting by either side

Neither side spotted the other.

There is now a sub force waiting to torpedo Colombian warships at Santa Marta.

The Gulf Fleet would find targets as it pulled up to Punto Fijo; the squadron of monitors out of Maracaibo watching the bay entrance. 5 Monitors versus the Mexican Gulf Fleet 18 Battleships and Battlecruisers plus 8 CLs and 12 DDs, from a range they can't effectively return fire from... not much of a fight, but the Monitors still could run back to Maracaibo and the defenses there. They would try...

[01:05] cmdrwilkens: Since I can stay out of range and shell him at will the question is whether they can retreat under the guns fast enough
[01:05] nerd359: The monitors are limited in their movement
[01:05] sbbigsteve: Okay. 3-5 roll, you only damage ships, your gunners went to the Gunner's Mate 1st Class Phillip Asshole School of Shooting.
[01:07] sbbigsteve: Actuallly, just a roll of 3 for that utter failure.
[01:07] cmdrwilkens: Well give him 3-4, my ships have never seen combat before so maybe there is an overzealous idiot in FC
[01:08] cmdrwilkens: who I hven't sacked yet because I didn't know he was excitable in battle
[01:08] sbbigsteve: 5-6, you get one monitor, damage the others. 7-8, you sink two monitors, damage the others. 8-9 you sink three. 10-12, you sink 4. 13 and up, you wipe him out.
[01:08] sbbigsteve: Then we'll roll on if he got lucky and damage you.
[01:08] sbbigsteve: *damaged
[01:08] sbbigsteve: Timothy?
[01:08] cmdrwilkens: Okay
[01:08] nerd359: nerd359 rolled 3 6-sided dice: 2 2 6
[01:08] nerd359: 10
[01:08] nerd359: 4 sunk
[01:08] sbbigsteve: 4 sunk.
[01:09] sbbigsteve: 5th damaged, but it got far enough south.

4 monitors were sunk, but one made it to the protection of the guns at Maracaibo.

After this fight, another Mexican sub group is taking up positions in the coastal waters should more surface units show themselves.

Was there any damage to the Mexican force? A poor CO who got his ship too close to the Monitors and suffered?

[01:14] nerd359: nerd359 rolled 3 6-sided dice: 1 5 5
[01:14] sbbigsteve: Anyway, let's speed this up. You roll 3, you lost a cruiser that got too close to his monitors. Roll 4-5, you lost a destroyer. Roll from 6-9, damage to a destroyer. Anything higher, nothing.
[01:14] sbbigsteve: 11, no damage.
[01:14] sbbigsteve: Complete domination.

Sadly, that didn't happen.


The Mexican sub fleet also moved toward Panama City, ordered to patrol as far north as the northern tip of the Archipelago de las Perlas.

[01:18] sbbigsteve: 5 monitors, 5 cruisers, 10 subs.
[01:20] sbbigsteve: I'd say a roll of 3 means you loose 2 subs that got ambushed by one of his or because it got too close to a surface vessel while surfaced or near-surfaced. 4-5 you lose one sub. 6-8 you lose none, torpedo 1-2 ships. 9-11 torpedo 3-4. 12-14 you torpedo 5-6. 15+ you torpedo one more ship for every level, meaning 9 in all.
[01:20] sbbigsteve: Objections?
[01:20] dagorladsurvivor: nyet
[01:21] cmdrwilkens: I would probably cap my max sinking at 7 (1 for every other sub). 9 might be excessive even with a really hot roll
[01:21] sbbigsteve: YOur choice.
[01:21] sbbigsteve: //roll-dice 3-sided 6
[01:21] sbbigsteve: sbbigsteve rolled 3 6-sided dice: 1 1 6
[01:21] sbbigsteve: 8. Your subs don't manage any hits but aren't hurt.
[01:21] dagorladsurvivor: they dodged the wolfpack
[01:22] sbbigsteve: Not surprising, they're hugging the coast and probably mostly staying at the City.
[01:22] dagorladsurvivor: what happened to '6-8 you lose none, torpedo 1-2 ships.'
[01:22] cmdrwilkens: Hey 5-8 means I sunk 1 or 2
[01:22] sbbigsteve: Oh, duh.,
[01:22] sbbigsteve: Okay, 8 was the high roll in that.
[01:22] sbbigsteve: So you hit 2 ships.
[01:22] sbbigsteve: Sink 1.
[01:22] sbbigsteve: I'll roll for one to survive.
[01:22] cmdrwilkens: Sounds good
[01:22] sbbigsteve: I'll just arbitrarily say you sunk a cruiser and hit a monitor.
[01:23] sbbigsteve: //roll-dice 3-sided 6
[01:23] sbbigsteve: sbbigsteve rolled 3 6-sided dice: 4 2 5
[01:23] dagorladsurvivor: glub glub glub
[01:23] sbbigsteve: His monitor survived.

Minor success.

Last items: air raids on D5-D6 and D8-D9 against the railroads northwest of the Darian Gap, along the tracks running northwest from Yaviza.

Second group was taking place from airfields moved to during D7, so it was nearer and they could loiter longer.

[01:27] sbbigsteve: First roll.
[01:28] sbbigsteve: 18 for you ravaging his railroads completely. 15+ gets you a decent amount of damage. 12+ moderate damage. Minimum roll of 10 needed for noticable damage. Do you agree given your request for high reward threshold?
[01:29] sbbigsteve: He has no air force to attack you with, but I'd say rolls of 3-4 cost you some aircraft from determined AA fire.
[01:29] *** MKSheppard has left the chat.
[01:29] cmdrwilkens: Sounds good to me.
[01:30] sbbigsteve: //roll-dice 3-sided 6
[01:30] sbbigsteve: sbbigsteve rolled 3 6-sided dice: 2 2 6
[01:30] sbbigsteve: 10.
[01:30] cmdrwilkens: Modest damage
[01:30] sbbigsteve: You do some damage but it'll only stop him for, say, 6-8 hours.
[01:30] dagorladsurvivor: ho chi minh railroad continues to operate
[01:31] cmdrwilkens: D+5 and D+6
[01:32] sbbigsteve: Okay. That was when he had to shift back to two-way traffic on his four lines.
[01:33] sbbigsteve: I'd say the moderate damage means you shut down one of his pairs of track for 9 hours.

First days of raids have only modest results. Ryan, for D5 and D6 combined have one of your dual-track lines shut down for 9 hours total, resulting in 1 division being late by that time amount.

Then on D8 and D9 the Mexican bombers return.

[01:33] sbbigsteve: Second set of raids. Your aircraft can loiter more, but that also gives more time for them move up AA guns.
[01:33] cmdrwilkens: Allrighty, that's 9hrs total between both days right?
[01:34] sbbigsteve: I'd say so, I think that's fair for modest damage.
[01:34] sbbigsteve: So anything below 9 results in some losses, the lower the roll the more lost aircraft.
[01:35] sbbigsteve: More loiter time means you need a minimum of 8 to inflict modest damage. Every other roll moves down 1-2 (17-18 for utter devastation, 13+ for decent damage, 10+ for modest.
[01:35] cmdrwilkens: sounds good
[01:35] sbbigsteve: //roll-dice 3-sided 6
[01:35] sbbigsteve: sbbigsteve rolled 3 6-sided dice: 3 3 2
[01:36] dagorladsurvivor: anyway, modest damage again
[01:36] sbbigsteve: 8. Modest damage inflictred, you have some aircraft damaged and lost.
[01:36] sbbigsteve: *inflicted

Another 9 hour delay.

And so that's done. The War for Panama is entering its 2nd week....

[CmdrWilkens]

This map should be reflective of the items mentioned.

[Steve]

Honestly, Ryan, 14 naval guns at one fort isn't a bad arrangement, this isn't a case where any lack of expertise caused you to do something unrealistic that could hurt you. I'm not against letting you say that it's 8 450mm and 6 350mm, but I think letting you add guns is a bit too much given that circumstance.

[Norade]

For Norade's Suriname attack:

[17:12] sbbigsteve: So, 9 for a completely successful crossing. 3-5 is failure, 6-8 is minor success - some footholds but they're bottled up.- 9-12 for general success, 13-16 for outstanding success, 17 and 18 has the Dutch forces utterly routed and Suriname wide open for conquest.
[17:12] sbbigsteve: //roll-dice 3-sided 6
[17:12] sbbigsteve: sbbigsteve rolled 3 6-sided dice: 4 1 4
[17:13] sbbigsteve: General success.

Rogue and I were there, Norse and Lascaris witnessed.


Rogue should be PMing Thanas and Siege results now as well.

So I need to figure losses for both sides and I'm not knowledgeable nor am I impartial. Both sides have 2 divisions dirrectly involved, but I have destroyer support, air support, and a brigade of artillery to tip the scales as well as an infantry squad that stayed behind and will be able to motar over the river into my objective. Key points are my artillery superiority, my opening artillery barrage before landing, destroyer escorts for landing forces in small 8-12 man boats, as well as my landing an equal sized force in the initial stages before bring everything else over once the city was mine.

Looking for losses so I can do my initial results and next stage post.

[Czechmate]

I recolored some of the borders on the map because they were somewhat confusing from all the changes that were made in the pregame phase. All internal borders are now gray and all international borders are white.

Should be much clearer once you navigate to the map and refresh.

(link for convenience: http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/sdnwo ... rldmap.png )

[Bluewolf]

Correction, I am still China. I was not sure if I wanted to stay in but I have not given the country. Some of the reasons for my potential leaving (I said that I *may* leave) have been resolved so it is looking a lot more bright for me. On top of that no one else has claimed China after Steve announced that but one person who is OK with me keeping it so...

Oh and just to confirm it:

I am going to say that I am probably going to hand in my resignation in regards to China

Probably, not that I actually would.

[loomer]

I am returned. Let me take a day to settle in and then I can send belated telegrams thanking Mongolia for its support, and FINALLY do that diplomatic visit to Byzantium.

[Siege]

I recolored some of the borders on the map because they were somewhat confusing from all the changes that were made in the pregame phase. All internal borders are now gray and all international borders are white.

Should be much clearer once you navigate to the map and refresh.

Hold on, did I just end up with a huge chunk of extra Libya or is that just something I completely missed on the previous maps? I thought my territory ended at Benghazi...

Regardless of that the Sultanate should also look more like this:

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

I don't control Jerusalem either. That's Coyote's/Siege's.

[Norseman]

DISNA?

Disney's grumpy scottish relative.

[Ryan Thunder]

Honestly, Ryan, 14 naval guns at one fort isn't a bad arrangement, this isn't a case where any lack of expertise caused you to do something unrealistic that could hurt you. I'm not against letting you say that it's 8 450mm and 6 350mm, but I think letting you add guns is a bit too much given that circumstance.

Very well. I'll have more to say when I get back from a meeting...

EDIT: ...or a few thoughts before I head off to it.

What the hell is this? I thought I discussed with Steve that I'd be building trenches along the length of the canal, not just around Cuidad de Panama!

I also find it kind of darkly amusing that while I have no air force I supposedly have all these airfields...

[DarthShady]

Confederate Army Orbat is done and is in the OOB thread, here. Posted for Mod approval.

More detail(such as locations and organization) will be added later, but this should be enough for now.

I have the air force and fortifications left to do, I will get to it.