[boc120] Sodom and Gomorrah Destroyed

[boc120]

The Sodom and Gamorrah thing has come up more than once on this forum in my experience. If you have something to say about this subject that you would like me to respond to, then put it here. I cannot promise to answer every two minutes, as I have other things to do, but I will answer as often as I can. I would appreciate a smaller amount of profanity than I find in most topics, if you please.

[Surlethe]

The Sodom and Gamorrah thing has come up more than once on this forum in my experience. If you have something to say about this subject that you would like me to respond to, then put it here. I cannot promise to answer every two minutes, as I have other things to do, but I will answer as often as I can. I would appreciate a smaller amount of profanity than I find in most topics, if you please.

What sort of questions do you want?

PS- I won't flame you if you aren't an idiot.

[Frank Hipper]

Why do people always label Sodom and Gomorrah's crime against god as being homosexuality when there is so little proof of it in the Bible?

While the people in the city wanted to "know" the angels, the writing was on the wall for them before they even showed up.

Also, if homosexuality is what got Sodom and Gomorrah destroyed, why hasn't god taken such pro-active measures since against other homosexual communities?

[Zero]

How can you claim that God has ever actually been a loving being at all instead of a supremely selfish one when he actively participates in murder and genocide many times in the bible, and when he rarely ever lifts a hand to improve the human condition at all?

PS-I, and likely everyone else, will flame you for being an idiot.

[1123581321]

Were Sodom and Gomorrah even real cities?

And if they were, isn't it more likely that they just burned down due to a lack of a fire department or destroyed by some other natural means. They could even have been destroyed by invading armies and someone just decided to give God credit for someone else's hard work.

[Boyish-Tigerlilly]

What gives God the right to kill for any reason he cares to come up with, regardless of the level of offense? Just because he's "bigger, badder, and packing more goodies" does not make him the final authority on right and wrong.

[Ender]

Why do you think your response to any point brought up here will justify and or convince us that the suppossed massacre was the right response for people?

I'm going with the idea that you believe it is just to massacre thousands because of their sexual orientation and believe that laying out the "facts" will sway us as well.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

The Sodom and Gamorrah thing has come up more than once on this forum in my experience. If you have something to say about this subject that you would like me to respond to, then put it here. I cannot promise to answer every two minutes, as I have other things to do, but I will answer as often as I can. I would appreciate a smaller amount of profanity than I find in most topics, if you please.

First: What authority do you have on the subject? Other than the fact that you claim to have found your god and that you are "born again"? Please note that is not admissable as evidence.

Second: What do you hope to accomplish with this thread?

I await your response.

Oh yeah, no whining about our profanity. It didn't work well in the last thread you were in, and it won't work here. Don't like it, you know where the door is.

[Dalton]

Why do you believe in fairy tales designed to scare people into a certain way of life with threats of eternal damnation if they don't do what the writers of the bible tell them to do?

[FedRebel]

The Sodom and Gamorrah thing has come up more than once on this forum in my experience. If you have something to say about this subject that you would like me to respond to, then put it here.

Who died and made you a priest?

In the other thread you said that you're a "born again christian" so how does this give you the authority to be gatekeeper of the Bible's 'secrets'?

I cannot promise to answer every two minutes, as I have other things to do,

As do we, so what's your point?

but I will answer as often as I can.

Ofcourse because there is no greater expert on the Bible than a 'born again christian', after all the Pope just pales in comparison [/sarcasam]

I would appreciate a smaller amount of profanity than I find in most topics, if you please.

Can't stand the heat? Get out of the Kitchen

[Pick]

God claims that he will spare the many [evil] for the sake of the one [wholesome], correct?

If this is so, wouldn't it be against his words to destroy these cities? There were certainly young children and babies (as well as the unborn) who were without any sin (except original sin, though that could not be prevented in the unborn and hence would be a moot point).

[boc120]

Excellent! I finally have someone who asks direct questions in a reasonable manner. Why hasn't God taken such proactive measures against groups of homosexuals? There are two things that come to mind right away. First that being homosexual in itself is not a sin, being a practicing one is a sin according to a verse that I can think of right off. Romans, chapter: 1, verse: 27
27Men behaved in the same way. They stopped wanting to have sex with women and had strong desires for sex with other men. They did shameful things with each other, and what has happened to them is punishment for their foolish deeds.

(because it is a sin). But if a person repents of the act, and abstains from homosexual relations, then it is not an issue.

Second is that he doesn't destroy groups of them because of his desire to not destroy the good along with the bad. As in the parable of the weeds and the wheat.

Matthew chpt. 13
end of verse 27-29
Where did these weeds come from?"
28"An enemy did this," he replied.
His servants then asked, "Do you want us to go out and pull up the weeds?" (enemies of God, unrepentant sinners)
29"No!" he answered. "You might also pull up the wheat. (saved Christians, completed Jews) 30Leave the weeds alone until harvest time. (judgement day) Then I'll tell my workers to gather the weeds and tie them up and burn them. But I'll have them store the wheat in my barn." (heaven)

He doens't destroy cities anymore because there are Christians that would be killed along with them, and so lets the sinners live alongside the Christians until Judgement Day. Sodom and its sister city had only one God fearing family to be found, Lot's.

I hope this helps.

[Darth Wong]

Don't be an idiot; do you think that all of the little children and babies in Sodom and Gomorrah were sinners too?

[weemadando]

That made no fucking sense.

The reason for gods wrath no longer being displayed is because there are Christians amongst the wicked?

Go and fucking smite Mecca then.

[Zero]

This doesn't help. You still said nothing about what gives God the right to decide who lives and dies. Especially confusing is the fact that he does so based on arbitrary rules with no morality behind it at all.

[Surlethe]

OK, I think I see what you're getting at. What I'm curious is about the justification for this. The closest modern events I can think of to Sodom and Gomorrah are the nuclear bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, so I've taken the liberty of getting a few pics of Hiroshima:









Also, since God rained down fire and sulfur, the death was probably by burning (linked because the picture is rather startling).

So, my question is, why should God be allowed to kill sinners when he says 'thou shalt not kill'?

Also, do you agree God is a perfect being?

[The Guid]

Romans, chapter: 1, verse: 27
27Men behaved in the same way. They stopped wanting to have sex with women and had strong desires for sex with other men...

OK. For all we know this might not be linked with the below:

They did shameful things with each other, and what has happened to them is punishment for their foolish deeds.

The shameful things might have been watch daytime TV. Two seperate statements. No "which were...".

[boc120]

I have seen many people refering to this as a debate, I do not see this as a debate. It is more like asking for questions, and I will answer them, as long as they are within the topic. I don't plan on changing my faith, I doubt that you plan on changing the athiestic stance that most (if not all) have taken. I am not all knowing, but if you can get the Pope to answer your questions on this forum, then go ahead and ask him your questions.

Now as to the "Why is God allowed to kill sinners?" God is God, He gave the commandments to the people of Israel, humans. He told humans not to kill other humans. It is also written that vengeance is not for us to distribute, but that "Vengeance is the Lord's". Therefore, humans "shalt not kill", but if He decides that it is what should be done, then He can do it.

[weemadando]

I've got a question, if I lead a life, where I obey the laws of society, don't steal, don't kill, respect the rights of others etc etc - but, don't go to church, marry in a civil ceremony and am openly atheist (yet do not attempt to foist atheism onto others, merely stand up for my beliefs when challenged) - does that mean that I should be condemned to hell? Surely open belief in God is not nearly as important as leading a good life - or can I lead a life of shittiness and evil, but as long as I do it in God's name and go to church, does that make me the better man?

[Darth Wong]

I have seen many people refering to this as a debate, I do not see this as a debate. It is more like asking for questions, and I will answer them, as long as they are within the topic.

I don't think you understand. It is a debate. Everything on this forum is subject to debate. That's part of the nature of the forum. If you can't handle that, please feel free to get the fuck out.

[The Guid]

I have seen many people refering to this as a debate, I do not see this as a debate. It is more like asking for questions, and I will answer them, as long as they are within the topic. I don't plan on changing my faith, I doubt that you plan on changing the athiestic stance that most (if not all) have taken. I am not all knowing, but if you can get the Pope to answer your questions on this forum, then go ahead and ask him your questions.

Now as to the "Why is God allowed to kill sinners?" God is God, He gave the commandments to the people of Israel, humans. He told humans not to kill other humans. It is also written that vengeance is not for us to distribute, but that "Vengeance is the Lord's". Therefore, humans "shalt not kill", but if He decides that it is what should be done, then He can do it.

Ummm... actually. This is a forum of debate (usually). If you say something that someone disagrees with they will challenge you. To suggest it is a Q&A implies that you have some authority on this which I have yet to see evidence of.

[The Guid]

I've got a question, if I lead a life, where I obey the laws of society, don't steal, don't kill, respect the rights of others etc etc - but, don't go to church, marry in a civil ceremony and am openly atheist (yet do not attempt to foist atheism onto others, merely stand up for my beliefs when challenged) - does that mean that I should be condemned to hell? Surely open belief in God is not nearly as important as leading a good life - or can I lead a life of shittiness and evil, but as long as I do it in God's name and go to church, does that make me the better man?

I don't think you go to heaven. You wouldn't like it. I think of it as unity with God, which you clearly don't want (well, you don't believe in it. That's like me saying you don't want a fully functioning lightsabre I suppose but I'm just expressing an opinion) and as such you wouldn't go there. That an ever loving God would condemn you to hell in the traditional sense of the word is ridiculous. You wouldn't be making a choice to accept God then are you, you're avoiding pain! That's not love. I believe in reincarnation, you aren't connected with God, but you're not punished.

[anybody_mcc]

Second is that he doesn't destroy groups of them because of his desire to not destroy the good along with the bad. As in the parable of the weeds and the wheat.

Isn't he all knowing and all powerful ? He could kill the bad ones without destroying the good ones. So your argument does not explain it.

Matthew chpt. 13
end of verse 27-29
Where did these weeds come from?"
28"An enemy did this," he replied.
His servants then asked, "Do you want us to go out and pull up the weeds?" (enemies of God, unrepentant sinners)
29"No!" he answered. "You might also pull up the wheat. (saved Christians, completed Jews) 30Leave the weeds alone until harvest time. (judgement day) Then I'll tell my workers to gather the weeds and tie them up and burn them. But I'll have them store the wheat in my barn." (heaven)

Quite a stupid farmer.

Sodom and its sister city had only one God fearing family to be found, Lot's.

And that justifies this mass murder how ? Also there are quite many cities today that have no Christians , and since god is all knowing , finding them should not be a problem.

I hope this helps.

Not really. Answering my questions may help , but i doubt it , because you will probably ignore them , or say something like : god just choses not to do that anymore.

[boc120]

That is an excellent question, and one that is omni-present in today's society. It is not enough to "live a good life" The law given to Moses was never intended to be the way to salvation. As my sig (used to) say,
John, chapter: 14, verse: 6
No one can come to the Father except through me. (Jesus)


Works alone will not get you into heaven. But, once someone has truly and fully accepted Jesus into their lives, they will want to do good things, and to follow the commandments because that is what God wants us to do. A born-again Christian can and will continue to sin (its still in our human nature after the fall) but they would be sorry and repent of the sins, and ask both God and the person they sinned against for forgiveness.

[anybody_mcc]

Don't be an idiot; do you think that all of the little children and babies in Sodom and Gomorrah were sinners too?

The problem is he may see that they were not sinners , but he will probably say : But small children are going straight to heaven , so no problem , they're happy now. Quite scary.