Your city gets some Police Tanks (RAR!)

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Your city gets some Police Tanks (RAR!)

Post by Zor » 2019-06-25 03:27pm

In this scenario you are going about your business one day and you notice something strange rolling down the street. Simply put it's a tank. Not a big tank, but clearly and undeniably a tank. It's got treads, an armored hull with small view ports and cameras and a turret with a cannon and a frontal machine gun. But it also has loudspeakers, emergency vehicle lighting and has the word "POLICE" printed on it in big letters, as well as being painted in the colors and with the insignia of your local police department. A Police officer sticks out of the cupola and waves to you.

When you get home you look things up on the internet and apparently the local police service has received some Police Tanks, which are now being delivered to Police around the country from a Japanese company. One tank for every 25 Constables in general. If you live in a small town with less than 25 Police Constables your Police department got a tank by luck of the draw.

Police Tank specifications Spoiler

Length 4.5 meters
Width: 2 meters
Height 2.5 meters
Crew: 3 (Driver, Gunner, Commander)
Engine: 6 liter V8 350Kw
Armor: 30mm front and turret, 20mm side and rear.
Weight: 10 tonnes
Armament: one 20mm autocannon (turret), 1200 rounds of ammunition. Coaxial tear gas grenade launcher.
Top speed 85km/h
Range 500 km
Automatic Transmission

What do you do and do you support this development?

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Re: Your city gets some Police Tanks (RAR!)

Post by Tribble » 2019-06-25 03:36pm

There was a big debate in Toronto over police cruisers being painted all gray on account of it looking too militarized, and they ended up having to change the design. Toronto Police suddenly driving around with tanks (and having hid the purchase from the public until they rolled onto the street) is going to cause riots far bigger than anything we saw during the G20. They’ll be pulled out of service real quick.

At least the police weren’t converted into reptiles, cats, or whatever bizarre creatures Zor normally comes up with :P
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Re: Your city gets some Police Tanks (RAR!)

Post by Formless » 2019-06-25 04:06pm

Tell the mayor to stop wasting my fucking tax dollars on equipment that by all rights shouldn't be deployed unless the country gets invaded, and which will likely tear up the streets unless its a wheeled tank. By all rights the National Guard already has that kind of equipment, and even they don't deploy them pretty much ever.

And if the mayor ignores the plea, take it up with the state Governor, who probably also won't be pleased with city police departments having such vehicles on deployment either. Police literally don't have any use for these things, except in Brazil.
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Re: Your city gets some Police Tanks (RAR!)

Post by Crazedwraith » 2019-06-25 04:17pm

I do... nothing. How is thing going to affect my life in any way whatsoever?

It's not.
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Re: Your city gets some Police Tanks (RAR!)

Post by Imperial528 » 2019-06-25 05:56pm

My town sells the tank and uses the money to invest in fixing roads.

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Re: Your city gets some Police Tanks (RAR!)

Post by PREDATOR490 » 2019-06-25 06:19pm

Point and laugh.

My area, Scotland and the UK as a whole would have a hard time selling tanks on the streets as being remotely sensible. The resources being wasted on the things would be better put being elsewhere and I do not see them being used.

I fully expect people would complain about militarisation but from my perspective, if you can field a valid reason for having that equipment then it is fine with me. Within the Edinburgh / Lothians these things would be useless for everything due to the disparity of heavily urban / narrow environments of development.

If you turned them into APCs - I could see SOME argument as being more heavily armoured vans but the real issue comes to cost vs. benefit. I do not see any benefit from having vehicles carrying around that kind of firepower unless something else is at play. That is ultimately where this goes, a sudden militarisation of the police with tanks on the streets sends out extremely dangerous messages not only because of the implied threat, it also creates the idea that people in authority suddenly feel they need to have that kind of firepower on the streets in preparation for something.

That said, putting that firepower on a police vehicle in Scotland is kinda stupid anyway. I cannot fathom any situation which would require firing a 20mm Autocannon. In a Country where the population has an infestation of guns and criminals willing to use them against the police... but even then. What the fuck are the criminals using / doing that requires you to use a 20mm Auto cannon ?
What the fuck is going wrong with a country to the point that militarisation of the police in this way is an option ?

Ultimately, I think most would object to the wasted expenditure unless it could be justified. After that comes the problems that such vehicles would cause.
I.E The operating costs and waste of resources that could be applied to things that will give a better return.

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Re: Your city gets some Police Tanks (RAR!)

Post by PREDATOR490 » 2019-06-25 06:19pm

Double Post

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Re: Your city gets some Police Tanks (RAR!)

Post by SpottedKitty » 2019-06-25 07:37pm

Anyone willing to speculate on a variant? Before I scrolled down to read the tech specs, I was thinking of the Bonaparte tank from Dominion Tank Police. At least on paper, that could reduce collateral damage.

Cheerfully chaotic tank commander optional... :shock: :roll: :wink:
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Re: Your city gets some Police Tanks (RAR!)

Post by Solauren » 2019-06-25 08:15pm

Okay, so, somehow, all the local police forces got funds for tanks? We can't even the the local mayor to deal with the fucking tent city. The 'residents' of said tent city are continually stealing from the nearby properties, trespassing, and stealing electicity, and it's being ignored, but man, we got FUCKING TANKS?

I'm in Ontario. This will get blamed on Doug Ford (and it was probably him that caused it anyway), and probably see him out of office. Possibly violently. The tanks will then be scrapped so damn quick, it's not even funny. Full refunds demanded, lawsuits etc.

So, I laugh at the stupidity of elected officials, and go about my day.
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Re: Your city gets some Police Tanks (RAR!)

Post by Jub » 2019-06-25 08:29pm

Our local force already has one far more practical armored response vehicle and another approved for purchase and these can carry officers into hazardous situations. I don't see how another 18 light tanks are going to help them in any practical way and can only imagine the trouble of finding space for both them and their munitions as well as the expense of upkeep and crew training. At best I could imagine a few being converted to APCs, another couple armed with a water cannon for anti-riot duty, and the rest being sold off as is to our armed forces.

The best news about this is that Canada's recon soldiers finally get some modern equipment as if most municipalities end up sending them to our armed forces that could mean 2,760 light tanks being added to our armories.

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Re: Your city gets some Police Tanks (RAR!)

Post by Batman » 2019-06-25 08:57pm

This is Gotham. Chances are they already have a score of them and I helped finance it
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Re: Your city gets some Police Tanks (RAR!)

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2019-06-25 09:13pm

Zor wrote:
2019-06-25 03:27pm
In this scenario you are going about your business one day and you notice something strange rolling down the street. Simply put it's a tank. Not a big tank, but clearly and undeniably a tank. It's got treads, an armored hull with small view ports and cameras and a turret with a cannon and a frontal machine gun. But it also has loudspeakers, emergency vehicle lighting and has the word "POLICE" printed on it in big letters, as well as being painted in the colors and with the insignia of your local police department. A Police officer sticks out of the cupola and waves to you.

When you get home you look things up on the internet and apparently the local police service has received some Police Tanks, which are now being delivered to Police around the country from a Japanese company. One tank for every 25 Constables in general. If you live in a small town with less than 25 Police Constables your Police department got a tank by luck of the draw.

Police Tank specifications Spoiler

Length 4.5 meters
Width: 2 meters
Height 2.5 meters
Crew: 3 (Driver, Gunner, Commander)
Engine: 6 liter V8 350Kw
Armor: 30mm front and turret, 20mm side and rear.
Weight: 10 tonnes
Armament: one 20mm autocannon (turret), 1200 rounds of ammunition. Coaxial tear gas grenade launcher.
Top speed 85km/h
Range 500 km
Automatic Transmission

What do you do and do you support this development?

Zor
I go to the next municipal council meeting with a petition decrying the authoritarian posturing and gross waste of municipal funds on fucking tanks for a suburban municipality of under 20,000 residents with a low violent crime rate.
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Re: Your city gets some Police Tanks (RAR!)

Post by bilateralrope » 2019-06-26 01:04am

The Police Minister is going to have a lot of explaining to do before he is replaced.

A few years ago I remember a police officer getting killed, sparking off a talk about if NZ police should be armed. The police were mostly against it. So I expect them to also be against these tanks. That they were silent about it beforehand is a very worrying level of secrecy, which probably means they didn't know either.

Spreading them evenly/randomly around the country makes no sense. The New Zealand Police is a single nationwide organisation. Why isn't anybody even pretending to allocate them by need ?

Why are they already on the streets ?

So I can see one of two things happening. Maybe both:
- National does their duty as an opposition party and makes a big deal about it. The governments coalition partners have to quickly choose which side of this issue they stand on. If they support the tanks (or stay silent), that will hurt them in the next election. So this could easily lead to a vote of no confidence followed by an early election. Which National is probably going to win, shifting the government to the right.
- An investigation into how the fuck this happened. Several high profile arrests due to the illegality of the purchase and import of these tanks. If these are quick enough, we might avoid the early election.

As for what happens to the tanks, I can't see the police keeping them. The upkeep costs for something that is never going to be used is a waste of money.

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Re: Your city gets some Police Tanks (RAR!)

Post by PREDATOR490 » 2019-06-26 08:09am

The key problem is:

What opposition are the Police expecting to face and use a 20mm Autocannon against ?

Even if you changed the weapon to some sort of Riot Suppression equipment - That kind of thing is really only going to be valid in places where riots are likely to occur. Generally, these things would be sitting in a central Garage collecting dust until the once-in-a-year situation occurs that MIGHT require ONE or TWO of them at most.

In theory, I can see reasons why giving the Police bigger toys could be viable but those toys are going to need to be able to meet the needs of what the Police actually need on a normal basis. You could switch out these tanks for sports cars and make a better case for them since agility / speed is going to be way more useful than a cumbersome tank.

The only way I see this working in any world, real or fiction is if the vehicle performs a function (s) that require such an escalation in resources.
I.E Police decide to come out with a multi-role platform that somehow replaces / combines the iconic patrol car / police vans system.
The major issue is that it would require a massive shift in how law enforcement operates / functions and some interesting developments across science, technology and society.

This is ultimately going to push it into the APC / armoured truck territory rather than a tank.
I know for a fact that the local roads and developments would make using bulky vehicles hazardous and difficult to the point it would be pointless.

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Re: Your city gets some Police Tanks (RAR!)

Post by FaxModem1 » 2019-06-26 08:02pm

Dallas is going to have a lot of problems with speedsters, drunk drivers, and other traffic problems now being followed by tanks, as that's where majority of police deployments are involved. With a top speed of 52 MPH, these things will be laughed at by motorists unless they start using their guns to stop speeding cars, by which point the police have declared war on nonviolent offenders, and that's going to cause all sorts of hell.
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Re: Your city gets some Police Tanks (RAR!)

Post by Themightytom » 2019-06-27 03:01pm

I'm a city alderman so if someone bought 8 tanks without me noticing I have some serious questions to ask. We could use them for event blockades I guess, but I hope they run on something cheap. Maybe in the winter we can use them to squash snow?

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Re: Your city gets some Police Tanks (RAR!)

Post by LaCroix » 2019-06-28 10:56am

Where I live, a police officer will see a disciplinary hearing if he even draws his gun without having a hostile gun visible at the site. Not even a knife is justifying use of anyting but baton or pepper spray/taser.

Police shooting someone (shoot for wound guidlines, so most of them are not killed) is news headlines for days, and will see an investigation if the officer could have used other means. Happens ony a few times a year.

How on earth are you proposing that the Minstry of the Interior would have aquired that huge number of armored vehicle that are of no use at all, and are outnumbering the stock of our actual army, which is struggling to keep their APCs running?

I don't want even want to imagine an environment that would see police equipped like that - not even the worst parts of South American drug cartel areas have not reached as state dire enough to make this happen.
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Re: Your city gets some Police Tanks (RAR!)

Post by Zixinus » 2019-06-29 08:36am

The citizenry is going to ask some very angry questions on why the fuck do we need tanks. There are barely protests, never mind riots here. My town is too small for riots. Our roads sure as hell don't want them, we are barely able to keep them in repair as is.

Then everyone writes it off as the result some corrupt public deal where the majority of public funds went into private hands, shrug and move on as we have internalized it as normal.

The lack of maintenance and repair (and will to maintenance and repair because there is never money for that) will probably reduce these things as static showpieces.

The most sensible thing would be to give them to the actual military or just sell them back.
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Re: Your city gets some Police Tanks (RAR!)

Post by LadyTevar » 2019-06-30 07:31pm

SpottedKitty wrote:
2019-06-25 07:37pm
Anyone willing to speculate on a variant? Before I scrolled down to read the tech specs, I was thinking of the Bonaparte tank from Dominion Tank Police. At least on paper, that could reduce collateral damage.

Cheerfully chaotic tank commander optional... :shock: :roll: :wink:
I was visualizing Tachikoma.
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Re: Your city gets some Police Tanks (RAR!)

Post by madd0ct0r » 2019-07-01 08:50pm

Meanwhile, in Belfast....


Nah in all seriousness theyd work well in Cardiff. 20mm autocannon is about right for dissuading a dragon that has wandered in past the city limits.

Might be overkill against the grendles and tigers from the valleys and bay respectively.
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Re: Your city gets some Police Tanks (RAR!)

Post by Zaune » 2019-07-06 06:34am

One of these for every 25 frontline officers? I would guesstimate that my local police force will therefore have about two of them, and probably only enough money for one full tank of petrol per tank per year. They'll probably end up assigned to the Armed Response Unit and see about as much action as the rest of that lot, ie Sweet Fanny Adams.
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