What sort of immortality would you want?

[Rossum]

Okay, lets assume that it is the year 21XX (Yes that's how they write it, ever since scientists discovered magic the calenders have never been the same). You are in charge of creating Humanity 2.0 and have access to as many geneticists, cybernetics experts, archmages, and voodoo economists as you need (along with enough funding to buy two moons and bribe every religious fundamentalist into not saying anything stupid for the next million years).

Your job is to create a new type of human that is immortal, not just really long lived but as about as immortal as is possible without turning them into freaky energy cloud beings (If you could do that then it would be swell... but few people would embrace a change as drastic as that).

Your team would design Humanity 2.0, create a whole mess of blank-slate cloned bodies, and the various citizens of the Great and Bountiful Human Empire would have the chance to have their consciousness transferred into their new bodies.

Problem is, what sort of immortality would you want Humanity 2.0 to have? Remember that this feature would be effectively given to every human alive who wanted it (aside from dangerous criminals of course) and to their decendents forever after.

Bulletproof skin like Superman?

Healing factor like Wolverine?

Regenerations like the Doctor?

Or would you try something else?

(Oh, and lets say that the Great and Bountiful Human Empire has united all of humanity into itself, has colonized much of the solar system, but hasn't yet traveled to other star systems yet due to not having access to FTL. Average life expectancy at this time is 150 to 200 years with universal healthcare for everyone.)

[Samuel]

Bulletproof skin like Superman?

That doesn't help so much. Your internal organs are still squishy and the skin can only take so much force so people switch to explosive rounds or grenades.

Healing factor like Wolverine?

You'd have to eat a ton. And it might not work right- easier to just replace parts if they get too damaged and have your body capable or surviving massive trauma long enough to get to a hospital.

Regenerations like the Doctor?

Nah. Just make it so that people can alter their appearence, voice and other physical traits slowly and you don't need that.

[Chaotic Neutral]

Dr.Manhattan

Exactly like him.

[Solauren]

Well, since we have magic.....

Make it so people age really, really, really slow.

Stick them all in the Matrix, aka a Holodeck that works and doesn't try to kill you.

They now remote control awesome super android bodies, via remote, from the Matrix. There real bodies get to feel everything, if they want sex, they have sex with another being, not android to android, and the androids are nice disposable avatars.

And as a emergency measure, everyone has the powers of Superman, a Sith Lord, a Jedi Master, every Marvel mutant, and just for the hell of it, every alien and metahuman in DC, Marvel, and every other fiction I can use or duplicate.

In short, turn us into Gods

[Dave]

I keep thinking about the society that would result from the Nanotech Network linked in Stas Bush's signature.

Basically, everyone gets billions of nanobots floating through their body, which are powered by cold fusion and communicate with scalable microwave lasers.You could construct anything with the nanobots, communicate over any distance with ad-hoc point-to-point networking, store or compute obscene amounts of information and undergo painless self-modification and direct neural link-ups. Hell, it seemed like you could forge any atom you needed to just by fusing or splitting atoms. If you wanted to, you could simulate whatever you wanted to just using the processing power in your own body, or link up with anyone else limited only by lightspeed communication delay.

I'm really not seeing any downsides here. The only thing I would say is that this uplifting thing should be optional, not mandatory.

[Temujin]

Dr.Manhattan

Exactly like him.

I think Doc would qualify as an energy being who just chose a quasi-corporal form.


I think I would take a purely technical route and go with humans heavily modified by nanotech to be essentially be cybogs on a cellular level. Keep the basic human form and fix all deficiencies with in reason, and then add some extra functionality, again within reason. They would essentially have immunity to practically all disease, numerous venoms/poisons, and better resistance to injury and limited regenerative/healing capability.

Or whatever process they have in the Culture, that'll work.

[Bedlam]

I quite like the idea of Dr Who regeneration, it deals with the boardom of immortality. Every few hundred years you regenerate and get to view the universe from a different point of view so things keep interesting. Not as indistructible as the other methods mentioned though.

[Crossroads Inc.]

If we had "Magic" I would like to go for for metamorphc shapeshifting.

Basically, staying in one form I would function and age as normal. But at any point i could "change shape" renewing everything. If I wanted, I could age naturally to 70 or so, and then "shape change" into the body of a 20yo. As long as I avoid things like being blown up and such, I could survive small stuff like bullet or knife wounds by 'shape changing" into an un hurt body.
Thats the magic route.

If we were following logic a bit more, I would go for super healing powers. Not sure how that effects aging, I would imagine it would lessen the process. Also I don't mind having to maintain an immense coloric intake to keep the healing going since I am a bit chunking as is, and speeding up metabolisim sits just fine with me.

[Captain Kruger]

Does turning into a supernatural creature count? If so, I'll opt for becoming a vampire that can walk around in the sun and be able to survive on either food/drink OR blood.

[Crossroads Inc.]

So you want to be someone who can be turned to dust by a wooden stake? Turned away with a religious Icon? Horribly burned with just holy water? And unable to enter a house without permission?

Gotcha.

[General Zod]

Does turning into a supernatural creature count? If so, I'll opt for becoming a vampire that can walk around in the sun and be able to survive on either food/drink OR blood.

So you're a Twilight fan?

That said I'd rather have Highlander style immortality. You can take a lot of damage and come out in one piece but if your head comes off you're permanently dead, so you've got an out if you ever get to that point.

[Temujin]

That said I'd rather have Highlander style immortality. You can take a lot of damage and come out in one piece but if your head comes off you're permanently dead, so you've got an out if you ever get to that point.

Can't believe I forgot about that being it was one of my favorite movies (the first one) and series. If I was going to go magical, I'd take that.

[SCRawl]

That said I'd rather have Highlander style immortality. You can take a lot of damage and come out in one piece but if your head comes off you're permanently dead, so you've got an out if you ever get to that point.

Can't believe I forgot about that being it was one of my favorite movies (the first one) and series. If I was going to go magical, I'd take that.

They never made a sequel to Highlander. And if the did it would have been the worst film ever made.

Anyways, yeah, if magic is on the table I wouldn't mind this sort of immortality.

[Lord of the Abyss]

My two favorite forms of immortality to fantasize about:

* Your uploaded mind is stored in a powerful artificial body designed purely with capability in mind, not a human appearance. My personal preference would be installing it in a spacecraft. If you prefer durability over mobility, perhaps an armored vehicle or even a vault buried deep underground. For interacting on a human level you use android avatars.

* Group mind. You are copied into multiple linked bodies whose memories and perceptions are constantly being shared so as to maintain a single identity. Killing one merely requires the other to replace it; unless you kill them all the person survives. Distribute your bodies far and wide and even a nuclear attack is survivable (although you'd be screwed long term if civilization fell and creating new linked bodies requires external help). Saying "I am Legion" in unison is strictly optional.

[Rossum]

Yeah, the multiple bodies thing sounds like the best way to try for true immortality and sort of exists in nature already. The Immortal Jellyfish can return to a polyp state after maturing and split into multiple copies of itself. Sort of like if an old human were to go through metamorphosis and turn into four or five babies with all of their memories and personality built in.

Thus, even if the resulting 'copies' couldn't share memories after being created then they would all have unbroken memories of his entire life. After several 'regenerations' over five hundred years then there might be a hundred of him each with their own five hundred year memories. I don't know what other word to use, if an old man turned into five teenage versions of himself all with his memories then they would all be equally real so they are technically not copies.


Some of my thoughts:


Liches Phylactory - The old standby, create a magic bauble that keeps a part of your soul safe so that if your body is destroyed then you go back to the phylactory and regenerate your body. To make it better then maybe clone some already existing bodies to keep near the phylactory so you just inhabit them quickly instead of regrowing one each time. Also make sure that you don't lose your skin or ability to taste coffee. Bonus points in that the government could have a facility to house and protect all the phylactories in case people try to abuse the immortality. Even if the government is evil, they might destroy the phylactory or try to capture you when you respawn... just don't die any more than you have to.


Splitting - devise some way that people can split into two people (would likely need alot of food) each with the originals memories and personality. Some minor telepathy would be included so that they could update with eachother. Each resulting regeneration would result in multiple copies of younger versions of the person. This could ensure that the person would survive in a sense despite some being destroyed.

If this is a natural ability then it could result in a nasty case of overpopulation pretty quickly... which would have whole new problems. But there could be a policy that limits how many instances of a person can be walking around at one time with 'extra' copies being sentenced to death. Could get awkward but it would be a small price to pay for immortality. The extra copies could all be rounded up and sent off on various dangerous tasks. Perhaps the Empires military consists mainly of extra copies of its citizens who are trained for battle (and can update their other copies back home with their knowledge) if the military copies are killed in battle then just wait for the immortals back home to split off another guy to send out.

That could get really weird, a galaxy spanning civilization of immortals who's population literally doubles every year or so and they have to find ways to get rid of the excess. Cannibalism, death sports, a huge military, and the like could give them a chance to eliminate the excess. Though suicide could be an option... imagine an 'immortal' having to occasionally make sure some of his copies commit suicide so that there is enough food for his other copies to avoid starving to death.


Cylon clone armies - Mass produce clone bodies and have a system set up to transfer minds in and out of them as needed. There could be multiple copies of the same person who can share their memories but everyone has at leas one 'back up' in a tube somewhere as is needed. Perhaps the infrastructure needed to make all this stuff is government funded but rich or skilled people can afford to have multiple copies or backups for their needs. This could go wrong quickly if someone can tamper with the machines for their own purpoeses or that rich people can totally break the system by copying themselves and thus increasing their own capacity to make money (though charging them more for the use could alleviate their ability to break the system while still letting society benefit from their skills).

[Ilya Muromets]

I'll echo Bedlam. I've always been of the immortality = extreme boredom at some point mindset.

Having different regenerations that allow me to view life from a different point of view while still retaining my memories from past lives would be the only way I'd be willing to become immortal.

[Temujin]

That said I'd rather have Highlander style immortality. You can take a lot of damage and come out in one piece but if your head comes off you're permanently dead, so you've got an out if you ever get to that point.

Can't believe I forgot about that being it was one of my favorite movies (the first one) and series. If I was going to go magical, I'd take that.

They never made a sequel to Highlander. And if the did it would have been the worst film ever made.

Anyways, yeah, if magic is on the table I wouldn't mind this sort of immortality.

Endgame was the only one I didn't actively hate. And it looks like they're remaking it: Highlander: The Reckoning

[hongi]

I'll echo Bedlam. I've always been of the immortality = extreme boredom at some point mindset.

Having different regenerations that allow me to view life from a different point of view while still retaining my memories from past lives would be the only way I'd be willing to become immortal.

Not even that is acceptable for me. Eventually that would become boring and horrible. Especially as you retain the memories of your friends and families dying. The only 'immortality' I sort of like is Buddhist reincarnation where you do not reincarnate because the concept of an immortal, unchangeable self (i.e a soul) doesn't exist in Buddhist philosophy. After you die, you're dead. But your actions have consequences, also known as karma, that carries onto another person when they're born. And that's a sort of immortality where unless you're a special person, you can't access the past memories of another life. So every life is new and fresh, every death means all the grief and pain of being a starving child or a bug squashed in a windshield is wiped away...

Personally, I'm alright wth annihilation. An extended life span doesn't necessarily mean I could do the stuff I wanted to do anyway (say I was 190, it's not like I could go learn skateboarding).

Your job is to create a new type of human that is immortal, not just really long lived but as about as immortal as is possible without turning them into freaky energy cloud beings (If you could do that then it would be swell... but few people would embrace a change as drastic as that).

Eventually the heat death of the universe will catch up to you. Not even a Wolverine-style healing factor will save you from dying.

[Starglider]

Not even that is acceptable for me. Eventually that would become boring and horrible. Especially as you retain the memories of your friends and families dying.

How do you know without trying it? You can only vaguely guess at what being 1,000, much less 1,000,000 years old would feel like. That said obviously human psychology didn't evolve to target lifespans past 50, so a bit of cognitive redesign to optimise for this is highly recommended even if you don't want to go for any radical improvements. e.g. with default human neurology you simply won't be able to remember much past 100 years anyway.

But your actions have consequences, also known as karma, that carries onto another person when they're born.

That is actually ridiculously unfair and the notion that by being a mass murderer you will curse some random future person with shitty luck is pretty horrible.

[hongi]

How do you know without trying it? You can only vaguely guess at what being 1,000, much less 1,000,000 years old would feel like. That said obviously human psychology didn't evolve to target lifespans past 50, so a bit of cognitive redesign to optimise for this is highly recommended even if you don't want to go for any radical improvements. e.g. with default human neurology you simply won't be able to remember much past 100 years anyway.

It'd be ironic if we did acheive immortality, but our brain architecture wasn't built to withstand a thousand years and so we just went insane.

That is actually ridiculously unfair and the notion that by being a mass murderer you will curse some random future person with shitty luck is pretty horrible.

I know right? I'm glad it's a load of bullshit.

But Buddhists don't think that it's good that because you're a mass murderer, the next person who is born will be born a worm - they just think it's the way the world works. And what's more, they want to escape this system of immortality. They think it's totally depraved. Their nirvana isn't heaven, it's stopping this cycle of reincarnation. It's freedom from an eternal prison. Compare it to the Abrahamic religions, where immortality is something to be desired.

[Starglider]

It'd be ironic if we did acheive immortality, but our brain architecture wasn't built to withstand a thousand years and so we just went insane.

Complex iterated systems inevitably fall into attractors. Serious insanity is an attractor, although if you're still part of an advanced society hopefully there will be someone around to snap you out of it. In Greg Egan's Diaspora, the characters deal with living through millions of years of subjective time via cognitive 'watchdog' programs that prevent their brain state from veering too far in 'unstable' directions.

Seriously though I constantly hear old people saying things like 'you can't imagine what it's like to be 60 when you're just 20' (I am now 30), if you believe that then there's no way we're going to be able to accurately guess what it's like to be 1000+.

[Darth Hoth]

It's freedom from an eternal prison. Compare it to the Abrahamic religions, where immortality is something to be desired.

Although in Christianity, at least if one goes by the Bible, it is not so much you that will be resurrected to eternal life as New-And-Improved You who has God's Law written into your heart and is essentially a Battle 'Droid for Jesus.

And no, er, reproductively associated thoughts or feelings in Heaven, either.

[Rossum]

The goal of the Humanity 2.0 project is make everyone (who wants it) immortal so hopefully you won't outlive your loved ones. Plus if we're going to be putting magic on the table then maybe in the future the'll invent a method to resurrect people who died before the transformation into immortality (like a time machine that goes back to the time you died and invisibly collects you soul to be transferred into a new body).

Which could be a weird form of immortality in itself... if you die then an ultra benevolent society in the future collects your soul and gives you a new body.


Personally I found the reincarnation idea of dying and being reborn as a new person somewhere possibly with faint memories of your old life to be somewhat comforting even if karma wasn't involved. If you had done something to make the world a better place then in theory the world would be that much better when you were reborn in it later. At the very least, if you were born in a crummy situation the first time around then the next time you might be better off.

[Eternal_Freedom]

I would opt for Dr Who style unlimited regenerations. It allows you to change perspective and even personality while retaining the essence of who you are. It's basically uploading your personality etc into a new blank body.

If you expand regeneration into allowing you to change gender as well, that allows an even more different perspective.

But most importantly, as the Master showed, you can choose NOT to regenerate, so there is a way out.

[Manthor]

Reincarnation any day.A fresh new slate,none of the hangups and eventually if I meditate enough and become enlightened,I can escape the cycle of reincarnation and achieve nirvana