'Hero' bystander shoots dead man who killed three at US shopping centre.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

'Hero' bystander shoots dead man who killed three at US shopping centre.

Three people have been killed by a gunman in a shopping centre in Indiana, with a "hero" bystander shooting dead the attacker.

Pic: AP
© Associated Press
Pic: AP
The man entered Greenwood Park Mall on Sunday and began firing a rifle, fatally injuring three people before being killed by a 22-year-old armed bystander, police say.

One of two others wounded was a 12-year-old girl who sustained a minor injury, the Indianapolis Star reported.

"The real hero of the day is the citizen that was lawfully carrying a firearm in that food court and was able to stop the

shooter almost as soon as he began," said Greenwood Police Chief Jim Ison.

Names of the victims, gunman or the person who intervened have not yet been released.

Indiana has some of the most relaxed gun laws in the US. This month it scrapped the need for people carrying a handgun to have a permit - even if the weapon is concealed.

This latest shooting follows similar attacks at a school in Uvalde, Texas and at an Independence Day parade in Chicago.

"We are sickened by yet another type of incident like this in our country," Indianapolis Assistant Chief of Police Chris Bailey said.

The three people shot dead in Indiana are among 136 people killed in firearm violence nationwide in the last 72 hours, according to the Gun Violence Archive.

Police went to the shopping centre at about 6pm local time after the alarm was raised.

Authorities searched for other victims but it is believed the shooting was contained to the food court.

US Senator Todd Young, a Republican from Indiana, tweeted: "Terrible news tonight in my home county. Praying for the victims of a shooting at the Greenwood Park Mall.

"Thank you to our law enforcement officers who responded."

Read more: Almost 400 officers at Texas school shooting 'failed to prioritise victims' safety over their own'

Last month the US Senate passed a rare bipartisan package of gun safety legislation, following decades of failure to pass legislation on firearms.

Greenwood is a south suburb of Indianapolis with a population of about 60,000.

Mayor Mark Myers asked for "prayers to the victims and our first responders".

"This tragedy hits at the core of our community," he added in a statement.

[LadyTevar]

I would like to know if the 22yr old Hero had military training, or otherwise worked in a capacity where he'd be level-headed in a gunfight.

[Lost Soal]

Left unsaid is the fact that the murderer was also (most likely) legally carrying, because otherwise a guy running around with a rifle could have been spotted and stopped before he killed anyone instead of after.

[ray245]

The idea of carrying a gun to kill/stop the person on a kill-spree isn't really about safety. It's about vendetta and "punishing" the bad guy.

This feels to be ingrained in the American psyche of what is defined to "law and order". The idea of preventing it from happening in the first place seems an entirely unacceptable mindset especially among some of the most powerful groups in the US.

[Broomstick]

I would like to know if the 22yr old Hero had military training, or otherwise worked in a capacity where he'd be level-headed in a gunfight.

The way things are going maybe he was a survivor of a previous mass shooting?

So far very, very little information has been released on the guy who shot the guy with the rifle.

[LadyTevar]

Well, the BBC got more information on the "Hero Gunman"

Full Article HERE.
I'm just going to quote the parts about the Hero Gunman:

FIrst: He's been named

Elisjsha Dicken, 22, who was at the mall with his girlfriend, drew his pistol and fatally shot the gunman.

Details from the Police Chief:

Greenwood Police Chief Jim Ison said on Monday that Mr Dicken had engaged the gunman almost from the outset of the attack.
The police chief said that Mr Dicken had shown "proficient" and "sound" tactics in firing at "the gunman with a handgun from quite a distance", despite having had no law enforcement or military training.

Mr Dicken also gestured for other shoppers to flee behind him "as he engaged and closed in on the suspect", said the police chief. He fired 10 rounds.

Mr Dicken - who was lawfully carrying a concealed pistol - was at first handcuffed and questioned by police, before his version of events was confirmed by CCTV footage.

Give the cops props for arresting the first one they saw with a gun. THEN getting verification of story. I'm going to assume Dicken saw the cops and immediately cooperated, since he wasn't shot himself.

There was a short blurb about the Attacker:

The attacker was identified as a 20-year-old local resident who had recently been evicted and lost his job at a warehouse.

So, the shooter was recently hit with two heavy losses, and either went to the mall to punish everyone else (maybe his landlord, his boss, or co-workers were at the mall?), or he just wanted to commit "Suicide by Cop" while taking out his pain on as many others as he could.

[Broomstick]

It is entirely possible that Mr. Dicken is one of those gun owners who practices at the range frequently (thus his ability to aim) and is a very together and with-it person. In which case good for him, and for others in this particular case. But that would make him an exception to the usual rule of mass shootings.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

It is entirely possible that Mr. Dicken is one of those gun owners who practices at the range frequently (thus his ability to aim) and is a very together and with-it person. In which case good for him, and for others in this particular case. But that would make him an exception to the usual rule of mass shootings.

It was the exceptional way that this shooting went down compared to other mass shootings that made it newsworthy, which is damning in its own right when you think about it.

[MKSheppard]

I'd like to point out that Dicken was carrying under permitless (constitutional) carry which only went into effect in Indiana only a few weeks ago:

On July 1, 2022, the State of Indiana will no longer require a handgun permit to legally carry, conceal or transport a handgun within the state

Perp entered a bathroom and spent about an hour doing prep before exiting and starting shooting at people. This lasted about 2~ minutes before he was shot dead. Compare to the the 57+ minutes popo spent waiting after arriving at Uvalde, TX.

Total rounds fired was:

24~ by perp and 10~ by Dicken -- or in other words lots of Robert Patrick suppressive fire going on.



In closing:



(meme is inaccurate, it was a 9mm Glock, not a Hi Point, but you get the idea)

[MKSheppard]

Corrections!



Not only that, but the autopsy of the shooter reveals that 8 out of 10 rounds that Dickens fired hit him.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Corrections!



Not only that, but the autopsy of the shooter reveals that 8 out of 10 rounds that Dickens fired hit him.

Which makes sense- when you shoot, you shoot to kill. The missing piece of the puzzle is how far apart the two were when the first shots were fired.

[Marko Dash]

most common range I've seen mentioned is 40 yards

[Broomstick]

I strongly suspect Dicken spends time at the range working on his aim and accuracy.

So, while not formally trained as police or military he would seem to be self-trained. Which is fine.

My concern is that this will lead to a lot of yahoos buying guns and carrying them around without any training, practice, or real knowledge of how to use them. And we already have enough of that in the state where I live.

[Lord Revan]

My concerns are twofold.

First as Broomstick said people with little or no training thinking carrying a gun makes them a superhero and in case of a shooting missing 99% of their shots because they blind fired in panic and that means missing their intended target, as such people will most likely hit bystanders thus only adding to the bodycount in case of a mass shooting.

Second is that this will encourage people carry firearms and someone will shoot at anything they see a threat and thus kill an unarmed innocent due racist motivations, especially since there seems to be a large overlap with "people who are racists" and "people who'd carry guns in public in case they had to stop a shooter"

[MKSheppard]

So, while not formally trained as police or military he would seem to be self-trained. Which is fine.

I hate to break it to you, but 80% of police and military are way worse; especially big city PD departments; where nobody wants to get a reputation as a "tackleberry".



Honestly, the one thing PD departments could do to massively improve officer shooting (and the military as well), is give people a pair of self healing targets (about 8x8 inches)



About 200 rounds of cheap range blaster ammo; as well as PTO (Paid time off for that day) where the only requirement is that you have to punch into the local police outdoor range; and burn up that ammo.

You're not pass/fail scored or anything; the entire intent is that you get muscle memory of your service weapon, and have some fun, rather then stressing out over whether you keep your job.

[LadyTevar]

15 seconds seems a very small amount of time to See, Identify, and Neutralize a target.

It's also a very short time to shoot 24 rounds, and then another person pull their weapon and shoot 10 (hitting with .

Maybe it's because I do not use firearms, have never practiced with them outside of lessons with my dad when I was 10-13yrs old, but This all seems a little TOO Quick.

[Broomstick]

So, while not formally trained as police or military he would seem to be self-trained. Which is fine.

I hate to break it to you, but 80% of police and military are way worse; especially big city PD departments; where nobody wants to get a reputation as a "tackleberry".

What the hell is a "tackleberry"? And how does practicing at a range to improve one's weapon skills make you into one?

Honestly, the one thing PD departments could do to massively improve officer shooting (and the military as well), is give people a pair of self healing targets (about 8x8 inches)

It would be helpful to us who are NOT gun-obsessed if you would explain how such targets and their use "improve" anything relevant to the topic at hand.

About 200 rounds of cheap range blaster ammo; as well as PTO (Paid time off for that day) where the only requirement is that you have to punch into the local police outdoor range; and burn up that ammo.

Maintaining job skills is NOT what PTO is for. If you want this to be part of police training make it a mandatory day of training without digging into their vacation/personal time. Honestly, WTF?

You're not pass/fail scored or anything; the entire intent is that you get muscle memory of your service weapon, and have some fun, rather then stressing out over whether you keep your job.

I had several uncles who were police officers. Between their service in WWII as front-line Marines and their work as police in a large city they understood the need and value of weapons skills in a very personal manner - but they never described shooting as "fun". To them it was a job skill, not something they did on their days off for shits and giggles. In fact, when they retired they all gave up their guns. Likewise, I had an aunt who was licensed to carry concealed for awhile, and she, too, would practice with her weapon, but once her reason for that concealed carry went away she sold her gun.

Hate to break it to you, but not everyone who carries a gun does so for "fun" or finds shooting without greater purpose to be a form of entertainment.

[Batman]

So, while not formally trained as police or military he would seem to be self-trained. Which is fine.

I hate to break it to you, but 80% of police and military are way worse; especially big city PD departments; where nobody wants to get a reputation as a "tackleberry".

What the hell is a "tackleberry"? And how does practicing at a range to improve one's weapon skills make you into one?

He Even gave you the picture to clue you in. The gun nut from the 'Police Academy' movies.

[Khaat]

When they have examined and cleared the shooter's online/phone contacts, then I can lose this "this is fishy" feeling.

Shooter brought two rifles (can you use more than one? Sure, if you maybe think one will jam or whatever), and a Glock (same as the hero. How common are Glocks among 20-something owners?)
And an hour in the bathroom before the shooting.
Over in fifteen seconds.

What follows is a fiction (I really, really hope):
"Hey, I'm here at the food court in the shitter. Where are you?"
"I can't, [girlfriend]'s with me. She took me back!"
"Don't chicken out, I brought everything!"
"Can't do it!"
"Be right out!" *drops phone in toilet*
*three dead, four more wounded*
*hero shoots shooter, clears phone of shooter's texts, contact*

[Broomstick]

I hate to break it to you, but 80% of police and military are way worse; especially big city PD departments; where nobody wants to get a reputation as a "tackleberry".

What the hell is a "tackleberry"? And how does practicing at a range to improve one's weapon skills make you into one?

He Even gave you the picture to clue you in. The gun nut from the 'Police Academy' movies.

That would have helped if I had ever actually seen the Police Academy movies, which not everyone has. I have no idea who the characters in that movie are.

So... based on the context of Shep's post a "tackleberry", used as a slur, is a gun nut who actually goes down to the range to practice? I get that it's not a compliment.

[Broomstick]

Shooter brought two rifles (can you use more than one? Sure, if you maybe think one will jam or whatever), and a Glock (same as the hero. How common are Glocks among 20-something owners?)

I know a disturbing number of people with multiple rifles, and multiple guns, long or short, are also disturbingly common among mass shooters.

I don't have stats on Glocks specifically, but handguns are common weapons in the US. I don't know why you'd think a Glock is something unusual among gun owners of any particular age.

[Lost Soal]

Shooter brought two rifles (can you use more than one? Sure, if you maybe think one will jam or whatever), and a Glock (same as the hero. How common are Glocks among 20-something owners?)

I know a disturbing number of people with multiple rifles, and multiple guns, long or short, are also disturbingly common among mass shooters.

I don't have stats on Glocks specifically, but handguns are common weapons in the US. I don't know why you'd think a Glock is something unusual among gun owners of any particular age.

Perception, possibly incorrect, that a Glock is a premium gun with a correspondingly high price point.

Oh, and Tackleberry actively goes into situations wanting to use his gun. There is a scene where someone wants their money back from the payphone, so he shoots it and asks them to identify their coin.

[Zaune]

So... based on the context of Shep's post a "tackleberry", used as a slur, is a gun nut who actually goes down to the range to practice? I get that it's not a compliment.

Oh, and Tackleberry actively goes into situations wanting to use his gun. There is a scene where someone wants their money back from the payphone, so he shoots it and asks them to identify their coin.

So, should I infer from this that American cops think that anyone who puts in more than the bare minimum of marksmanship training required by department regulations is doing it because they're actively hoping they'll get an excuse to use their gun on someone, not just thinking, "If I ever need to fire this thing I want to be really sure I'll hit what I'm aiming at"? Because that seems like a problem.

And I really, really doubt the trigger happy ones are bothering to put in extra range time, they probably have an inflated opinion of their own skill at arms.

[Broomstick]

I don't have stats on Glocks specifically, but handguns are common weapons in the US. I don't know why you'd think a Glock is something unusual among gun owners of any particular age.

Perception, possibly incorrect, that a Glock is a premium gun with a correspondingly high price point

Meh, not impossible for a 20-22 year old with a job to obtain, especially if he's still at home and doesn't have to worry about rent/mortgage. There are also gun shows and a second-hand market.

[MKSheppard]

Perception, possibly incorrect, that a Glock is a premium gun with a correspondingly high price point.

There's a story in this in a recent nonfiction book on the Glock (Glock:Rise of America's Gun); the actual cost to Glock is somewhere between $150 to $200 to manufacture a Glock; because they were the first major gun mfg to go big into CNC machinery and polymer injection machinery; making it absurdly cheap to MFG vs more conventional pistols.

When they were first setting up imports to the US in the 1980s; they originally planned to sell them for something like $300 (AFAIK), but their "fixers" who were helping them get set up in the US told them that if they sold them that low, Glocks would get a reputation as a cheap junky gun. So they set their MSRP at $500 ish.