“Alt-right” women are upset that “alt-right” men are treating them terribly

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, SCRawl, Thanas, Edi, K. A. Pital

Post Reply
User avatar
mr friendly guy
The Doctor
Posts: 10017
Joined: 2004-12-12 10:55pm
Location: In a 1960s police telephone box somewhere in Australia

“Alt-right” women are upset that “alt-right” men are treating them terribly

Post by mr friendly guy » 2017-12-09 03:47am

Hands up who saw this coming
“Alt-right” women are upset that “alt-right” men are treating them terribly
Some prominent “alt-right” women are calling for more equality and acceptance within the movement

RACHEL LEAH
12.05.2017•1:40 AM0 Comments
There's trouble brewing in the MAGA world, as prominent women in the "alt-right" are upset that white nationalists are being misogynistic towards them.

Women in the "alt-right" "are constantly harassed by low level anonymous trolls trying to put us in our place," self-described "Ethno Nationalist" Tara McCarthy wrote on Twitter Sunday, in a moment of revelation that was well-known to basically anyone else. "The ultimate goal seems to be to bully us off the internet."

Women in the Alt Right are constantly harassed by low status anonymous trolls trying to put us in our place.
Women of all ages, who do or don't have children, are harassed for various 'reasons'.
The ultimate goal seems to be to bully us off the internet.

— Tara McCarthy 🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄 (@TaraMcCarthy444) December 3, 2017

Men in the Alt Right are going to have to decide whether they will continue to passively/actively endorse this behavior, or speak out against it.
If you want more women speaking publicly about ethno nationalism, I suggest you choose the latter.

— Tara McCarthy 🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄 (@TaraMcCarthy444) December 3, 2017

Guys, I'm not saying I can't take any trolling or harassment on the internet, *obviously* I can. I've probably had more of it than most of you will see in a lifetime, and I'm still here. Not going anywhere. I'm not stating the above solely for my own personal benefit. — Tara McCarthy 🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄 (@TaraMcCarthy444) December 3, 2017

The problem I'm stating here is not that 'there are trolls on the internet' but that people who proclaim to be on our side are trying to tear down women in our in-group. If you can't see why this is dysfunctional, I can't help you. — Tara McCarthy 🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄 (@TaraMcCarthy444) December 3, 2017

By the end of the thread, McCarthy made it clear that these trolls are part of the "alt-right." "The problem I'm stating here is not that 'there are trolls on the internet' but that people who proclaim to be on our side are trying to tear down women in our in-group," she wrote.
Another self-described "conservative woman" also had a problem with her movement's underlying culture. In a video titled, "Why I'm Not Married," Lauren Southern responded to the backlash she received for pushing "traditional family values" and trying to tear down feminism — while not turning into a baby-making machine, herself.
"I am not trying to sell the idea that myself, as a 22-year-old, needs to be married right now for the sake of traditionalism and not being a degenerate," Southern said in a YouTube video. "What is also just completely shocking to me is the utter lack of understanding of nuance."

Southern said that women should be able to choose their own life path and not be attacked for it, which sounds like what women have been shouting for a few decades now.
While McCarthy would like to see racism without the sexism in the white supremacist movement — and Southern would appreciate it if anti-feminist women were given the ability to choose for themselves what kind of life they want to lead — it's worth wondering if these women are liberal.
After all, what kind of "alt-right" darling wants to promote some intersectionalism?
Ok Tara McCarthy is a pretty despicable twat who attacked an interracial's couple twitter post to write that blacks have higher rates of STDs and their children will have lower IQ. She obviously brought into the race and IQ bullshit (not that some groups don't score worse on IQ, but the BS genetic justification for it), which if it was true, certainly explains her low IQ (McCarthy you see, is one quarter Indian, a group which these race realists like Jean Philippe Rushton blatantly say have low IQ due to genetics). But since its not true, McCarthy is just dumb and not because of any racial component. What's even funnier is that with her support of an "white ethno state", one wonders whether she should go, given her own ancestry.

She talks about how Muslims are outbreeding whites in her country (the UK) but gets flummoxed when people ask her the obvious question, why isn't she having kids then to counter act what she perceives as a threat. Her BS reply was we wouldn't need to breed so much if we didn't have such high levels of migration. Which doesn't work, because according to her, her country actually does have such high levels of migration.

Lauren Southern works for Rebel Media, a right wing media outlet which seems to be ignored by their home country of Canada. She has engaged in such awesome intellectual honesty be describing anarchists as "anti Trump protesters", never mind that anarchists also attacked during Obama's reign. Recently it seems like she is getting lots of hate from alt right types when someone who went to high school revealed... wait for it... that she used to date a non white guy and he provided pics. My irony meter just broke.
Never apologise for being a geek, because they won't apologise to you for being an arsehole. John Barrowman - 22 June 2014 Perth Supernova.

Countries I have been to.
Australia, Canada, China, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Germany, Malaysia, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.

User avatar
Dragon Angel
Jedi Knight
Posts: 753
Joined: 2010-02-08 09:20am
Location: A Place Called...

Re: “Alt-right” women are upset that “alt-right” men are treating them terribly

Post by Dragon Angel » 2017-12-09 08:41pm

Turns out feminism is still a necessary thing especially in groups that are violently against it. Who knew?

Apparently they did not.....

It sucks that they have to find this out the hard way, but that's what happens when one hangs out with social bottom feeders who basically advertise themselves like they had peacock wings. The main regrettable thing that I can think of is these people will likely learn nothing from their experiences, and still spout the same regressive bullshit as usual. Just with now an added dash of utter selfishness. The principles of feminism are only for them after all, not for anyone else!
Last edited by Dragon Angel on 2017-12-09 08:45pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I could while away the hours, conferrin' with the flowers, consultin' with the rain.
And my head I'd be scratchin', while my thoughts were busy hatchin', if I only had a brain!
I would not be just a nothin', my head all full of stuffin', my heart all full of pain.
I would dance and be merry, life would be would be a ding-a-derry, if I only had a brain!"

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 14741
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: “Alt-right” women are upset that “alt-right” men are treating them terribly

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2017-12-09 08:45pm

I'm not going to blame the victim in this or any other case. However, I must confess I find it baffling that women would support the Alt. Reich. I regard it in much the same way (even if its not quite as extreme) as women who join Daesh, or Polish/Russian Neo-Nazis.

I guess Stolkholm syndrome is a thing. There's nothing sadder than people who put themselves in chains willingly.
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - Lincoln.

User avatar
mr friendly guy
The Doctor
Posts: 10017
Joined: 2004-12-12 10:55pm
Location: In a 1960s police telephone box somewhere in Australia

Re: “Alt-right” women are upset that “alt-right” men are treating them terribly

Post by mr friendly guy » 2017-12-09 09:10pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2017-12-09 08:45pm
I'm not going to blame the victim in this or any other case. However, I must confess I find it baffling that women would support the Alt. Reich. I regard it in much the same way (even if its not quite as extreme) as women who join Daesh, or Polish/Russian Neo-Nazis.

I guess Stolkholm syndrome is a thing. There's nothing sadder than people who put themselves in chains willingly.
Well historically there have been people who betrayed their country to people who treated their racial group as crap. Just look at the number of collaborators with Japan during the sino-Japanese war. So this type of phenomena is not so uncommon, albeit its counter intuitive on the surface.

Presumably they did it out of self preservation and they get something out of it, which makes me wonder what these women are getting out of it. I think they get a sense of belonging to a group. This could explain their backpedalling, so they don't get ostracise. It gets worse when you can easily find out they get funding on patreon and hatreon for their videos. If they don't keep their fans happy, they don't get paid. I have to wonder how many youtubers have a job outside of youtube. I know several that don't, so they kind of rely on youtube for their income. If these people can only get income from youtube, then they need to keep their fans happy. However when your fans are behaving like an angry mob.
Never apologise for being a geek, because they won't apologise to you for being an arsehole. John Barrowman - 22 June 2014 Perth Supernova.

Countries I have been to.
Australia, Canada, China, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Germany, Malaysia, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.

User avatar
TithonusSyndrome
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2569
Joined: 2006-10-10 08:15pm
Location: The Money Store

Re: “Alt-right” women are upset that “alt-right” men are treating them terribly

Post by TithonusSyndrome » 2017-12-09 09:58pm

Ever read Ann Coulter's very early stuff? Tepid, bland, undistinguished. Nothing that would give you the impression that this was a firebrand in the making with the power to stir the pot at the national level. Same with Tomi Lahren, who was probably better described as a liberal of some kind when her career in political commentary began.

Lack of personal merit as a political commentator, combined with some relative sex appeal... just add an unprincipled lack of concern for authentic political convictions and you have a recipe for someone who is willing to be whatever an audience of angry, dispossessed young men want them to be. It's not like ignorance of social consciousness is a rare trait, anyhow.
Image

Simon_Jester
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 30096
Joined: 2009-05-23 07:29pm

Re: “Alt-right” women are upset that “alt-right” men are treating them terribly

Post by Simon_Jester » 2017-12-10 09:37am

Dragon Angel wrote:
2017-12-09 08:41pm
Turns out feminism is still a necessary thing especially in groups that are violently against it. Who knew?

Apparently they did not.....

It sucks that they have to find this out the hard way, but that's what happens when one hangs out with social bottom feeders who basically advertise themselves like they had peacock wings. The main regrettable thing that I can think of is these people will likely learn nothing from their experiences, and still spout the same regressive bullshit as usual. Just with now an added dash of utter selfishness. The principles of feminism are only for them after all, not for anyone else!
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2017-12-09 08:45pm
I'm not going to blame the victim in this or any other case. However, I must confess I find it baffling that women would support the Alt. Reich. I regard it in much the same way (even if its not quite as extreme) as women who join Daesh, or Polish/Russian Neo-Nazis.

I guess Stolkholm syndrome is a thing. There's nothing sadder than people who put themselves in chains willingly.
It makes me want to ask a certain philosophical question:

See, I know that "blame the victim" is fundamentally very wrong. At the same time... is there any point at which you look at someone and say "wow, you really did go out of your way to strap raw steaks to you body and go frolicking through a den of hungry liars?"
This space dedicated to Vasily Arkhipov

User avatar
Dragon Angel
Jedi Knight
Posts: 753
Joined: 2010-02-08 09:20am
Location: A Place Called...

Re: “Alt-right” women are upset that “alt-right” men are treating them terribly

Post by Dragon Angel » 2017-12-10 02:07pm

Simon_Jester wrote:
2017-12-10 09:37am
It makes me want to ask a certain philosophical question:

See, I know that "blame the victim" is fundamentally very wrong. At the same time... is there any point at which you look at someone and say "wow, you really did go out of your way to strap raw steaks to you body and go frolicking through a den of hungry liars?"
I didn't see what I posted as a blame the victim scenario, but I don't know if TRR was responding to me specifically or not. In this case, these women were hanging around with people who openly profess that white women are so sacred and beautiful that they must be forever relegated to the role of baby makers for the White Nation. (only one guess on why I said white women) They have also seen the masses of attacks their comrades-in-arms have launched toward other women, and the misogynistic reasons often cited.

I'm just like "How can you not know that these people will eat you alive too?"

"Blame the victim" is a phrase that is supposed to be used for where people who had no idea what was happening or what would happen or what happened was grossly unjust, get into bad situations and are blamed for getting into them. Women who are told they "dressed too sluttily", people who were exploited by predatory banks, people who fell too deep into addictive hardcore drugs.

White supremacism doesn't even try to cloak these feelings about women, Jews, people of color ... it's all openly advertised. There is no possible way they could have missed this. These people knew what they were getting into and thought it would not apply to them. Maybe they were "the good ones". Who knows what psychological reasons they used to justify this to themselves, but we don't hold back criticism when a capo is taken down from their life of crime. That capo knew what their "business" was up to since the beginning.
"I could while away the hours, conferrin' with the flowers, consultin' with the rain.
And my head I'd be scratchin', while my thoughts were busy hatchin', if I only had a brain!
I would not be just a nothin', my head all full of stuffin', my heart all full of pain.
I would dance and be merry, life would be would be a ding-a-derry, if I only had a brain!"

Simon_Jester
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 30096
Joined: 2009-05-23 07:29pm

Re: “Alt-right” women are upset that “alt-right” men are treating them terribly

Post by Simon_Jester » 2017-12-10 03:18pm

I'm not accusing you of victim-blaming. I'm observing that victims and "victims" of bad treatment exist on a continuum, not in neat pigeonholes.

At one end of the continuum are people who had clear reasons to expect what happened, not to happen. Who were entrapped or who never had a good chance to avoid the crisis before it overtook them. They, obviously, are blameless.

At the other end are people who very, very clearly should have known what they were getting into, understood the consequences, and clearly agreed to live with and profit from the situation for a long time before finally getting burned by it. They, obviously, are blameworthy.

I'm wondering how to describe the point between the two ends of the scale, at which we draw the line.
This space dedicated to Vasily Arkhipov

User avatar
Dragon Angel
Jedi Knight
Posts: 753
Joined: 2010-02-08 09:20am
Location: A Place Called...

Re: “Alt-right” women are upset that “alt-right” men are treating them terribly

Post by Dragon Angel » 2017-12-10 03:48pm

Simon_Jester wrote:
2017-12-10 03:18pm
I'm not accusing you of victim-blaming. I'm observing that victims and "victims" of bad treatment exist on a continuum, not in neat pigeonholes.

At one end of the continuum are people who had clear reasons to expect what happened, not to happen. Who were entrapped or who never had a good chance to avoid the crisis before it overtook them. They, obviously, are blameless.

At the other end are people who very, very clearly should have known what they were getting into, understood the consequences, and clearly agreed to live with and profit from the situation for a long time before finally getting burned by it. They, obviously, are blameworthy.

I'm wondering how to describe the point between the two ends of the scale, at which we draw the line.
Oh, yeah, I'm not saying you accused me, and I'm giving TRR the benefit of the doubt.

I actually happen to know one person very personally *cough* my mother who probably fits somewhere in the middle of that spectrum. She got herself into a very bad financial situation, but in a baffling series of choices, refused to listen to sound financial advice and kept on making extremely bad financial decisions. This continued for years with the causes becoming incredibly obvious despite her arrogant presumption that it would all "work out", until ... well, the current situation.

Where would she fit, I wonder? I'm not certain. Personal experience has led me to believe she started out on one end, but then chucklefucked her way into the other thinking she was an exception to the consequences.
"I could while away the hours, conferrin' with the flowers, consultin' with the rain.
And my head I'd be scratchin', while my thoughts were busy hatchin', if I only had a brain!
I would not be just a nothin', my head all full of stuffin', my heart all full of pain.
I would dance and be merry, life would be would be a ding-a-derry, if I only had a brain!"

User avatar
Zaune
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6099
Joined: 2010-06-21 11:05am
Location: In Transit
Contact:

Re: “Alt-right” women are upset that “alt-right” men are treating them terribly

Post by Zaune » 2017-12-10 04:02pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2017-12-09 08:45pm
I'm not going to blame the victim in this or any other case. However, I must confess I find it baffling that women would support the Alt. Reich. I regard it in much the same way (even if its not quite as extreme) as women who join Daesh, or Polish/Russian Neo-Nazis.

I guess Stockholm syndrome is a thing. There's nothing sadder than people who put themselves in chains willingly.
I wouldn't call it Stockholm Syndrome, as such; it's more that Alt Right supporting women probably hate "toxic masculinity", but not so much that they can't make somewhat reluctant common cause with its poster-boys in the name of ganging up on anyone who isn't white, straight and their particular definition of Christian.
There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)


Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
-- fgalkin


Like my writing? Tip me on Patreon

I Have A Blog

User avatar
loomer
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2978
Joined: 2005-11-20 07:57am
Contact:

Re: “Alt-right” women are upset that “alt-right” men are treating them terribly

Post by loomer » 2017-12-10 06:50pm

Convincing women that your banner is a better one for them than feminism before betraying them as a collective group is literally out of the old school fascist playbook. Want to understand it, look there first.
"You're wonderful, and you're alive, and you deserve every little bit of happiness that the universe has to offer anyone, no matter who or what you like. Never forget that." - Achewood

User avatar
ray245
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 6551
Joined: 2005-06-10 11:30pm

Re: “Alt-right” women are upset that “alt-right” men are treating them terribly

Post by ray245 » 2017-12-10 07:50pm

Zaune wrote:
2017-12-10 04:02pm
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2017-12-09 08:45pm
I'm not going to blame the victim in this or any other case. However, I must confess I find it baffling that women would support the Alt. Reich. I regard it in much the same way (even if its not quite as extreme) as women who join Daesh, or Polish/Russian Neo-Nazis.

I guess Stockholm syndrome is a thing. There's nothing sadder than people who put themselves in chains willingly.
I wouldn't call it Stockholm Syndrome, as such; it's more that Alt Right supporting women probably hate "toxic masculinity", but not so much that they can't make somewhat reluctant common cause with its poster-boys in the name of ganging up on anyone who isn't white, straight and their particular definition of Christian.
They could also be utterly terrified of change. The drums of Islamophobia was built up by such groups, with the claim that they are protecting them against the "evil sexists from the Middle East".

People from alt-right groups claiming to be better in terms of gender issues is nothing new.
Humans are such funny creatures. We are selfish about selflessness, yet we can love something so much that we can hate something.

User avatar
TheFeniX
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4611
Joined: 2003-06-26 04:24pm
Location: Texas

Re: “Alt-right” women are upset that “alt-right” men are treating them terribly

Post by TheFeniX » 2017-12-11 11:14am

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2017-12-09 08:45pm
I'm not going to blame the victim in this or any other case. However, I must confess I find it baffling that women would support the Alt. Reich. I regard it in much the same way (even if its not quite as extreme) as women who join Daesh, or Polish/Russian Neo-Nazis.

I guess Stolkholm syndrome is a thing. There's nothing sadder than people who put themselves in chains willingly.
I think there are likely multiple factors at work here. I've also asked "why are there so many Christian women?" when just reading Genesis is "God punished all women for the actions of Eve."

Ignoring the bad to focus on what they like: The alt right embraces traditional women. It's easy to take this as "women who don't dress slutty and take care of their families" and ignores the "also keeps her fucking mouth shut and does whatever her man wants." They ARE a part of this movement as long as they are allowed to be. They generally get used to keep other women in their place and to show the movement as more progressive than it is: "LOOK, GOOD MORAL WOMEN SUPPORT US!" then get shit on when back talking a man or just for the grins.

A family member, in our white family, thinks these people are his friends, though he is not associated with them directly. And they will be his friend up until they don't need him and our exceedingly large amount of Jewish blood gets brought to light and (oh yea, small hiccup) he's married to a Hispanc woman and has multiple mixed race kids.

Derp. The same type of mentality applies. Much like you can find homosexuals who vote Republican because Gun Rights are more important to them than anything else.

The failings of Feminism: (NOTE: I. do. not. agree with this mentality, but I've struggled to understand it). Many men and women online and offline (though the two are related) have felt betrayed by the current feminist movement. Men who consider themselves feminist can be immediately harangued for small (or those they perceive to be) slights and/or not being feminist enough. Women can be harangued for daring to get married and be a stay at home mom, or God Forbid circumcise their sons.... or NOT circumcise them.*

*Sidenote: Upon talking to some of her long-standing Web 1.0 feminist friends about circumcision, she gave up and put the entire decision on me. I did not know this at the time, but it's why she did it. I mentioned how annoyed I was about this in the thread I made years back. Only in the last 6 months did I find out why. I STILL HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA why the status of my son's foreskin is so important to so many people./Sidenote

With the lack of a focal point enemy, these groups tend to devour each other. We've seen issues in this vein with BLM, Feminists, Republicans, the Alt Right, just fucking name it. In response, those in the middle, fair-weather supporters, or even the die-hard react punitively and completely shift directions if able. BLM has issue because (in a word) "race." But Nazis and the like: it's a bunch of majority whites who have been quite willing and able to fuck each other up anyway, so it's easy to shift gears.

There's no one reason why people fall into the arms of people who, when full disclosure happens, actively hate them. People are just weird and the Internet brings out the shittiest in them.

User avatar
SolarpunkFan
Padawan Learner
Posts: 442
Joined: 2016-02-28 08:15am

Re: “Alt-right” women are upset that “alt-right” men are treating them terribly

Post by SolarpunkFan » 2017-12-11 01:05pm

So some women hooked up with members of the Leopards Eating Faces Club and are now upset because they didn't think said leopards would eat their faces?

Tale as old as time, right there.

My thoughts right now can roughly be summed up thusly: https://youtu.be/Pn0WdJx-Wkw?t=1s

I know I sound nasty about this turn of events, but come on. It's not like the Redpill fedora douchebrigade/alt-right overlap was a big secret or anything. Besides, aren't I entitled to at least a little schadenfreude now and then? :angelic:

*My usual apologies if this post doesn't really add to the discussion.

User avatar
TheFeniX
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4611
Joined: 2003-06-26 04:24pm
Location: Texas

Re: “Alt-right” women are upset that “alt-right” men are treating them terribly

Post by TheFeniX » 2017-12-11 02:11pm

ray245 wrote:
2017-12-10 07:50pm
They could also be utterly terrified of change. The drums of Islamophobia was built up by such groups, with the claim that they are protecting them against the "evil sexists from the Middle East".

People from alt-right groups claiming to be better in terms of gender issues is nothing new.
Oh, I missed this and it's something weird I've noticed and I've wanted to talk about as it involves Texas Crazy.™ I've tried to come out of my shell a bit and get involved in social media on a local level. And man, Texas has got it all. We have all the crazy.

There is anti-Islam sentiment around here, but it's generalized. At least Houston and the surrounding area has a pretty damn large Muslim community. As does, IIRC San Antonio and Dallas. And Texas Muslims are pretty well integrated and have been for years, decades even. You will deal with Muslims and the general take away is "They're Texans." The bigotry is there, this is Texas after all, but Texas Muslim groups are also extremely active and, as said, pretty well integrated into the "Texas first, fuck everyone else."

Around here, this is more backlash against BLM, LBGT, and the Democratic stance on them. Much like how Texans aren't hostile towards Hispanics, but get all mad when immigration comes up. And big supporters around here on anti-immigration are Texas Hispanics. They just generally view (probably rightly) white people getting up in arms about immigration as racism. It's not exactly a baseless claim.

Democrats have been considered the face of BLM, feminism, and LGBT for a while. Republicans... not so much. So, as prominent Democratic figures threw in more heavily with them, especially on the "black issue" (how dare our black president talk about racism, he's tearing this country apart! ZOMG!), these more conservative types look at it as an attack on real Americans. Feminism, about white women to them, failed them. Around here, it's becoming almost a 4 letter word. Because the Internet has made the crazies louder and more visible. Rather than trying to clean things up, something they really don't know how to do as the men and women I've seen running the show online are that much more technically competent: they are just checking out.

But they still want to be involved in something. And the GOP has really doubled-downed on the idea that they are (and it's hard to not laugh while typing this) about protecting REAL America for the REAL Americans.

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 14741
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: “Alt-right” women are upset that “alt-right” men are treating them terribly

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2017-12-11 02:40pm

Dragon Angel wrote:
2017-12-10 03:48pm
Simon_Jester wrote:
2017-12-10 03:18pm
I'm not accusing you of victim-blaming. I'm observing that victims and "victims" of bad treatment exist on a continuum, not in neat pigeonholes.

At one end of the continuum are people who had clear reasons to expect what happened, not to happen. Who were entrapped or who never had a good chance to avoid the crisis before it overtook them. They, obviously, are blameless.

At the other end are people who very, very clearly should have known what they were getting into, understood the consequences, and clearly agreed to live with and profit from the situation for a long time before finally getting burned by it. They, obviously, are blameworthy.

I'm wondering how to describe the point between the two ends of the scale, at which we draw the line.
Oh, yeah, I'm not saying you accused me, and I'm giving TRR the benefit of the doubt.
I don't think that you are trying to blame the victims here. I suppose someone could take your first post that way if they were so inclined (of if they focused on certain bits of it and ignored others), but I'm certain that that was not your intention.

You also made a very good point about the selfish double-standard that underlies a lot of political movements:
The main regrettable thing that I can think of is these people will likely learn nothing from their experiences, and still spout the same regressive bullshit as usual. Just with now an added dash of utter selfishness. The principles of feminism are only for them after all, not for anyone else!
Its been my experience that a lot of people have basically no understanding or appreciation of what concepts like "freedom", "justice", or "equality" actually entail. Weather consciously or subconsciously, when most people think of "freedom", they seem to tend to think of it in terms of their freedom to do whatever they want- including things that infringe on other peoples' freedom. I'm sure you've observed this as well.

Another example of this is people who will loudly proclaim their right to free speech to justify their offensive opinions, then in the same breath whine that you're trying to censor them if you express a different opinion. They completely miss (or don't care) that freedom of speech is by definition a two-way street- if they want to be a jackass, they have to then put up with other people calling them a jackass. Or people who whine about "SJWs" and "political correctness" in one breath, then support Trump's attacks on the "fake news" with the next.

I suppose the Alt. Reich is probably particularly susceptible to this sort of hypocrisy, however. Given that its underlying principle, once you strip away all the obfuscating bullshit, is "I've got mine, fuck everyone else."
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - Lincoln.

User avatar
TheFeniX
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4611
Joined: 2003-06-26 04:24pm
Location: Texas

Re: “Alt-right” women are upset that “alt-right” men are treating them terribly

Post by TheFeniX » 2017-12-11 05:04pm

I've heard enough whining from progressives about what does and doesn't pass as (just an example) "art" or whatever to say I doubt it's because either group is more or less prone to feelings of being super-special snowflakes who wilt like a Southern Belle at the slightest provocation. But I will say two things:

1. What gets Nazis all riled up and their responses are much much muchx500000 more vile as progressives might want to censor jiggly boobs in a fighting game or stop you from yelling slurs at people, but Nazis want to censor someone's right to exist.
2. It is hilarious (and sad and scary) to watch men who think they're tough cross-fit gun toting balls of masculine AMERICA FUCK YEA piss and vinegar wilt like (as said) Southern Belles every time something assaults their delicate sensibilities.

Mini-rant, please ignore: Put on your fucking big boy pants. I've always wondered if that's where some of the anger comes from. They almost wish they had the right to be as offended as... maybe a black guy having slurs yelled at him or someone who's been gay bashed. It's like, you're a white guy with tons of disposable income. Maybe they just get mad because they like to think they have it bad when it's immediately apparent that, even though they might have some money problems, they still don't understand the value of a dollar and have never dealt with real adversity.

I only say this because I've met a potential Alt-Reicher who is like this. His life is incredibly easy, but he still likes to think the world owes him something because he's had it "so rough." And black people get all the leg-ups what with the AA and a black president. His rants are always like "Wow. For real?"

Post Reply