Trump Dump: Internal Policy (Thread I)

[Simon_Jester]

No, no, see, I totally believe that everything here is terrible.

I just think it is entirely possible for Trump to fire a man who promptly gets replaced by another man who would be worse for Trump. Trump would then presumably get mad at that guy and fire him, too. But it wouldn't stop him from firing the first guy.

It's not that I don't think Trump and the Congressional Republicans are in the early (or middle?) stages of trying to purge law enforcement to get away with massive corruption and selling out to a foreign power.

It's just that Trump is going to be a dumbass about doing so, because he's a dumbass about everything, even if he's sometimes a dumbass capable of acting in his own direct self-interest.

[Civil War Man]

If the replacement would have been worse for Trump then there would be no reason to replace McCabe in the first place.

I agree that it was bad, though McCabe was going to be retiring in March, so there would have been a need to replace him soon. It's also Wray who appoints the replacement, since he's the director, and he has reportedly been pushing back against Trump's attempts to undermine the FBI.

[The Romulan Republic]

So, boycotting the State of the Union, though the reports that Trump is going to say something big regarding North Korea have me a bit nervous.

[Broomstick]

I find the man so revolting I won't bother to watch - the BBC and LeMonde will no doubt have the highlights, especially for foreign policy matters (domestic may have to watch several domestic media sources and cross-reference for accuracy.

[SCRawl]

If the replacement would have been worse for Trump then there would be no reason to replace McCabe in the first place.

The Rachel Maddow theory about the reason for getting rid of McCabe is that he's on the list of senior FBI employees to whom then-Director Comey gave contemporaneous accounts regarding Comey's conversations with President Trump. There has been an apparent purging from the FBI of all those on that list, and the theory goes that this is not a coincidence, with the end game being the discrediting of those officials, and therefore the discrediting of Comey himself. Seems believable to me.

[Zaune]

"It's 2018 and of course the upholstery pattern at Congress House Chamber is literally swastikas. Time for a drink...or bottle."

What the hell are the SCP Foundation doing? This Are We Cool Yet? prank has got way out of hand...

(Better to laugh than to cry, right?)

[The Romulan Republic]

I find the man so revolting I won't bother to watch - the BBC and LeMonde will no doubt have the highlights, especially for foreign policy matters (domestic may have to watch several domestic media sources and cross-reference for accuracy.

I didn't watch, but my Mum had it playing in the background. I felt sick listening to the Republicans applaud him, and immediately thought of a line from Revenge of the Sith.

"So this is how liberty dies. With thunderous applause."

[Ziggy Stardust]

Well, yes, I don't think anybody is denying that Trump is actively trying to cleanse the FBI, but per Simon's point that's no reason for us to believe he necessarily has to do a good job of it. Impetuously firing someone he perceives as a threat without doing the due diligence (or listening to advisors) concerning the probably replacement sounds like his M.O.

[The Romulan Republic]

Well, yes, I don't think anybody is denying that Trump is actively trying to cleanse the FBI, but per Simon's point that's no reason for us to believe he necessarily has to do a good job of it. Impetuously firing someone he perceives as a threat without doing the due diligence (or listening to advisors) concerning the probably replacement sounds like his M.O.

Thing is, even someone as inept as Trump (and he's not actually all that inept when it comes to manipulating the media and the legal system) can become a tyrant if they have a major party almost lock-step behind everything they do.

Trump is absolutely an existential threat to the rule of law in America.

[LaCroix]

I think it's funny how everybody seemingly has missed that Trump asked Congress to grant every Cabinet secretary powers that pretty much end the rule of law.

"remove federal employees who undermine the public trust or fail the American people"

I'm pretty sure that Mueller is undermining public trust. So are certain FBI personal. And pretty much every person working in the government has failed the American people, somehow, sometime.

Of course, they will happily lay down those powers after the crisis... Whom am I kidding?

[The Romulan Republic]

Yes. Trump is absolutely trying to make himself effectively dictator of America.

[FireNexus]

Is it the point where we have to admit to ourselves that we’re living in a work of fiction, yet? Because the GOP train hitting the garbage truck is where I’m either losing my ability to suspend disbelief or touch with reality...

[The Romulan Republic]

I think we all entered the Mirror Universe on November 8th, 2016.

[Gandalf]

Or you stayed in the same universe and are just more aware of just how fucked up it actually is.

I see Trump and his movement as just America without the shiny veneer.

[Broomstick]

Yes. Trump is absolutely trying to make himself effectively dictator of America.

Isn't this sort of how Julius Caesar became emperor?

[FireNexus]

Or you stayed in the same universe and are just more aware of just how fucked up it actually is.

I see Trump and his movement as just America without the shiny veneer.

I’m with you. I’m just pretty sure this universe is fictional, now.

[Simon_Jester]

Well, yes, I don't think anybody is denying that Trump is actively trying to cleanse the FBI, but per Simon's point that's no reason for us to believe he necessarily has to do a good job of it. Impetuously firing someone he perceives as a threat without doing the due diligence (or listening to advisors) concerning the probably replacement sounds like his M.O.

Thing is, even someone as inept as Trump (and he's not actually all that inept when it comes to manipulating the media and the legal system) can become a tyrant if they have a major party almost lock-step behind everything they do.

Trump is absolutely an existential threat to the rule of law in America.

This is entirely true.

Or you stayed in the same universe and are just more aware of just how fucked up it actually is.

I see Trump and his movement as just America without the shiny veneer.

The thing is, they're not a particularly good fit for the general arc of American historical political movements. The combination of views and the sheer personal ghoulishness are different enough that while they're definitely "just" a logical evolution of part of the US, they're not a plausible match for the whole of the thing.

It's not even a question of "no, the real America isn't that villainous," either. If the real America is/were that villainous, it'd be differently villainous than this.

[The Romulan Republic]

Yeah. I don't care how much you think America sucks, or how much it actually does suck- Trump is not normal, and should not be normalized.

[TheFeniX]

Yes. Trump is absolutely trying to make himself effectively dictator of America.

Isn't this sort of how Julius Caesar became emperor?

I guess, I mean if you focus on that they both give speeches and had statues engraved of them, though I doubt anyone ASKED for Trump to make sculptures.

Caesar was a conquering war hero who returned with a personal army at his back and had to fight a civil war. The people loved him as did most of what you could wrangle under the title of "military." Trump has done what? Got a Navy Seal killed in a botched raid? He's got about a 40/40 split for support in the military, which "support" is a huge farcry from "we'll help prop this guy up on a throne," and less support among military officers.

And his rhetoric seems to be showing huge cracks in his own party, though that might just be timing. Keep fighting him (politically mind you, not with knives) and he'll fold. The whole GOP will fold at this point since they are fighting a losing war on both economic and social issues. The current GOP is facing the reality of the only people who will be willing to vote for them in the future are those who just will never vote Democrat. And there's no "Tea Party" regressive fossils to dig up this time.

What Trump may or may not want and what he has access to are two very different things. The mid-terms will show more, but he's already seemed prime to drag the GOP down harder than Bush did and do it in only 4 years. And all this is his own fault as his actions are directly screwing the people who put him in power. Yes, there's group that will live and die by red, but the people who swapped to him after diving for Obama are about to get shit on by his policies this year.

[The Romulan Republic]

I agree that if liberals and progressives (and the last vestiges of moderate conservatism) stand their ground, we can stop Trump.

But I am also very much afraid that he and his supporters won't go off to prison/political irrelevancy, respectively, without an attempt to hold power by force. And that in any case, the damage he is doing to our institutions could take a generation or more to repair (the numerous far Right judicial appointments are likely to be particularly damaging).

[Bob the Gunslinger]

What a day.


First, Trump triggers a constitutional crisis by refusing to enforce sanctions against Russia. A law that passed the Senate 98-2 and the House 419-3, with no veto. Ergo, Trump is refusing to do his job. WTF-Bomb 1.

Then, the GOP is now investigating the FBI for deep state links and also decides to release a fabricated memo that will most likely serve as the cover for shutting down Mueller. WTF-Bomb 2

Third, Andrew McCabe, who was #2 at the FBI and a target for Trump due to his wife and his cooperation with Mueller, was just forced out.

It seems pretty clear that this administration is behaving in a treasonous manner (just look at how they seem to be more aiming at protecting Putin than obeying the constitution) and that the GOP is preparing political cover to shutter the FBI and the Mueller probe.

If I were in the USA I would look towards protesting right now. This is one of the moments where it will be decided if democracy survives or not. Inaction and not picking a side now is no longer an option.

We are protesting. Even our state governments are working against Trump.

[The Romulan Republic]

What a day.


First, Trump triggers a constitutional crisis by refusing to enforce sanctions against Russia. A law that passed the Senate 98-2 and the House 419-3, with no veto. Ergo, Trump is refusing to do his job. WTF-Bomb 1.

Then, the GOP is now investigating the FBI for deep state links and also decides to release a fabricated memo that will most likely serve as the cover for shutting down Mueller. WTF-Bomb 2

Third, Andrew McCabe, who was #2 at the FBI and a target for Trump due to his wife and his cooperation with Mueller, was just forced out.

It seems pretty clear that this administration is behaving in a treasonous manner (just look at how they seem to be more aiming at protecting Putin than obeying the constitution) and that the GOP is preparing political cover to shutter the FBI and the Mueller probe.

If I were in the USA I would look towards protesting right now. This is one of the moments where it will be decided if democracy survives or not. Inaction and not picking a side now is no longer an option.

We are protesting. Even our state governments are working against Trump.

I'd also question Thanas's use of the word "treasonous". Treason is defined in the US Constitution very specifically as waging war against the US, or offering aid and comfort to its enemies. What Trump is doing is evil, but I very much doubt that it would reach a legal definition of treason (at least, nothing that has been confirmed to have occurred), unless you define Russia as an "enemy" for the purposes of a treason charge, despite the fact that we are not at war with Russia.

Note, though, that this is a question of legal definitions. It is certainly treasonous in spirit, and in consequences.

[The Romulan Republic]

As to doing something about it: everything likely hinges on the elections this November.

The Republican Party has, almost unanimously, shown a willingness to tolerate Trump's despotic actions, and in some cases actively conspire with him to subvert the rule of law. The current Congress cannot be trusted to allow the investigation to proceed, or to remove Trump from office via impeachment or the 25th. Amendment regardless of the circumstances or evidence. Nor can they be trusted to block Trump appointments intended to replace justices and civil servants loyal to the Constitution with lackies loyal to him and to the Alt. Reich agenda.

Whatever hope there is of resolving this crisis via due process depends primarily on retaking control of Congress, by sufficient margins to ensure that we can remove Trump from office as well as block his appointments and protect the investigations.

Failing that, our only option becomes public resistance. I'd much prefer it to be non-violent resistance, civil disobedience, etc. But I am also under no illusions that such resistance could and likely would be met by violence from the other side, and could quickly escalate to armed clashes.

In short, my view is that if we don't win in 2018, we are very likely going to reach a point, within a year or two, where our choice, practically speaking, is between accepting dictatorship, and civil war. Note that this is not an endorsement of political violence on my part, but simply a very grim assessment of where we are likely headed if we continue down this course.

God help us if we reach that point.

Edit: And, it goes without saying, VOTE. Don't just vote, volunteer for a campaign. Donate. If you're in a district where a Republican is running unchallenged for state or local office (as often happens), considering running yourself.

There has not been a more important election, I think, since the 19th. Century.

[The Romulan Republic]

My thoughts on the latest impending shutdown, and weather the Democrats should concede on DACA and immigration:

"Stand firm. The tug has to come, & better now, than any time hereafter."- President Abraham Lincoln.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

^whether.