Does Donald TRump Have Narcissistic Personality Disorder?

[Zaune]

Vanity Fair

For mental-health professionals, Donald Trump is at once easily diagnosed but slightly confounding. “Remarkably narcissistic,” said developmental psychologist Howard Gardner, a professor at Harvard Graduate School of Education. “Textbook narcissistic personality disorder,” echoed clinical psychologist Ben Michaelis. “He’s so classic that I’m archiving video clips of him to use in workshops because there’s no better example of his characteristics,” said clinical psychologist George Simon, who conducts lectures and seminars on manipulative behavior. “Otherwise, I would have had to hire actors and write vignettes. He’s like a dream come true.”

That mental-health professionals are even willing to talk about Trump in the first place may attest to their deep concern about a Trump presidency. As Dr. Robert Klitzman, a professor of psychiatry and the director of the master’s of bioethics program at Columbia University, pointed out, the American Psychiatric Association declares it unethical for psychiatrists to comment on an individual’s mental state without examining him personally and having the patient’s consent to make such comments. This so-called Goldwater rule arose after the publication of a 1964 Fact magazine article in which psychiatrists were polled about Senator Barry Goldwater’s fitness to be president. Senator Goldwater brought a $2 million suit against the magazine and its publisher; the Supreme Court awarded him $1 in compensatory damages and $75,000 in punitive damages.

But you don’t need to have met Donald Trump to feel like you know him; even the smallest exposure can make you feel like you’ve just crossed a large body of water in a small boat with him. Indeed, though narcissistic personality disorder was removed from the most recent issue of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, for somewhat arcane reasons, the traits that have defined the disorder in the past—grandiosity; an expectation that others will recognize one’s superiority; a lack of empathy—are writ large in Mr. Trump’s behavior.

“He’s very easy to diagnose,” said psychotherapist Charlotte Prozan. “In the first debate, he talked over people and was domineering. He’ll do anything to demean others, like tell Carly Fiorina he doesn’t like her looks. ‘You’re fired!’ would certainly come under lack of empathy. And he wants to deport immigrants, but [two of] his wives have been immigrants.” Michaelis took a slightly different twist on Trump’s desire to deport immigrants: “This man is known for his golf courses, but, with due respect, who does he think works on these golf courses?”

Mr. Trump’s bullying nature—taunting Senator John McCain for being captured in Vietnam, or saying Jeb Bush has “low energy”—is in keeping with the narcissistic profile. “In the field we use clusters of personality disorders,” Michaelis said. “Narcissism is in cluster B, which means it has similarities with histrionic personality disorder, borderline personality disorder, and antisocial personality disorder. There are similarities between them. Regardless of how you feel about John McCain, the man served—and suffered. Narcissism is an extreme defense against one’s own feelings of worthlessness. To degrade people is really part of a cluster-B personality disorder: it’s antisocial and shows a lack of remorse for other people. The way to make it O.K. to attack someone verbally, psychologically, or physically is to lower them. That’s what he’s doing.”

What of Trump’s tendency to position himself as a possible savior to the economy despite the fact that four of his companies have declared bankruptcy? “It’s mind-boggling to me that that’s not the story,” said Michaelis. “This man has been given more than anyone could ever hope for,” he added, referring to the fact that Trump is not wholly self-made, “yet he’s failed miserably time and time again.” Licensed clinical social worker Wendy Terrie Behary, the author of Disarming the Narcissist: Surviving and Thriving with the Self-Absorbed, said, “Narcissists are not necessarily liars, but they are notoriously uncomfortable with the truth. The truth means the potential to feel ashamed. If all they have to show the world as a source of feeling acceptable is their success and performance, be it in business or sports or celebrity, then the risk of people seeing them fail or squander their success is so difficult to their self-esteem that they feel ashamed. We call it the narcissistic injury. They’re uncomfortable with their own limitations. It’s not that they’re cut out to lie, it’s just that they can’t handle what’s real.”

Indeed, the need to protect or exalt the self is at odds with the job requirements of a president. Michaelis said, “He’s applying for the greatest job in the land, the greatest task of which is to serve, but there’s nothing about the man that is service-oriented. He’s only serving himself.” As Prozan sees it, “He keeps saying he could negotiate with Putin because he’s good at deals. But diplomacy involves a back and forth between equals.” Dr. Klitzman added, “I have never met Donald Trump and so cannot comment on his psychological state. However, I think that, in general, many candidates who run for president are driven in large part by ego. I hope that does not preclude their motivation to govern with the best interests of the public as a whole in mind. Yet for some candidates, that may, alas, be a threat.”

Asked what, if Mr. Trump were their patient, they would “work on” with him, several of the therapists laughed. “I’d be shocked if he walked in my door,” said Behary. “Most narcissists don’t seek treatment unless there’s someone threatening to take something away from them. There’d have to be some kind of meaningful consequence for him to come in.” Simon concurred but added, “There is help available, but it doesn’t look like the help people are used to. It’s not insight-oriented psychotherapy, because narcissists already have insight. They’re aware; the problem is, they don’t care. They know how you’d like them to act; the problem is, they’ve got a different set of rules. The kind of approach that can have some impact is confrontational. It confronts distorted thinking and behavior patterns in the here-and-now moment when the narcissists are doing their thing in the session. It’s confronted on the spot; you invite them to do something different, then you reinforce them for doing so.”

But for at least one mental-health professional, the Trump enigma, or should we say non-enigma, is larger than the bluster of the man whose own Web site calls him “the very definition of the American success story, continually setting the standards of excellence”—to this mind-set, Trump may be a kind of bellwether. Mr. Gardner said, “For me, the compelling question is the psychological state of his supporters. They are unable or unwilling to make a connection between the challenges faced by any president and the knowledge and behavior of Donald Trump. In a democracy, that is disastrous.”

I don't know how reliable a source Vanity Fair is, but I have to admit that this would explain an awful lot.

[Ralin]

It's best to be extremely distrustful of anyone who claims to be able to diagnosis mental illnesses in a person they've never met, much less examined in a clinical setting.

[Esquire]

This kind of thing is why mocking psychologists is a univerally-enjoyable passtime. The man's an asshole; I don't know why we need to go any further than that.

[Adam Reynolds]

This kind of thing is why mocking psychologists is a univerally-enjoyable passtime. The man's an asshole; I don't know why we need to go any further than that.

It's just like everyone assuming that people with quirks can fit in a nice box and be labeled with whatever diagnosis happens to be hip at the moment. Often times said diagnosis comes because of some problem that led to it being needed for support.

This is also like the problem of assuming that what we consider evil automatically means that the person is a sociopath or psychopath. This is a slightly more mild version.

[wautd]

It's quite depressing but the current republican candidates make Bush look like a progressive, intelligent person in comparison. Hell, it's even scary how a canditate can openly be advocating torture and nobody gives a shit

[Broomstick]

This is not the first time someone has mentioned NPD in conjunction with Donald Trump. It's not just one guy or one magazine.

And yes, he's an asshole.

[Dartzap]

From his dalliance in Scotland, I think it's safe to label him a tosspot. He'll be a fantastic Republican candidate. Those who oppose his business are usually bullied or bribed to go away.

[Tribble]

And according to Trump, if waterboarding "...doesn't work, they deserve it anyway for what they do to us”. So yes, Trump is all for torturing people for the sake of torturing them. I think "asshole" is about the nicest thing you could say about him.

[The Romulan Republic]

Its nicer than what I would call him, which basically starts at "fascist" and gets ruder from their.

[Alyrium Denryle]

It's best to be extremely distrustful of anyone who claims to be able to diagnosis mental illnesses in a person they've never met, much less examined in a clinical setting.

For the vast majority of conditions, that is true.

For personality disorders, a clinical setting is next to useless, mostly because the person with the personality disorder never goes to see a shrink unless it gets caught by parents and they are forced to go.

Now, ethically, they ought not diagnose someone remotely. But the personality disorders are so obvious to a trained person that you can spot them a mile away. So if he is not a clinical narcissist, he does a really good job of impersonating one.

These are paraphrased from the DSM V. Look through and try to tell me that his displayed behavior does not align with this perfectly, and not in the way that a horoscope can apply to everyone either. Everyone displays these sometimes, but with Trump, it is all the time. In the same way that someone without OCPD might get a little superstitious, but someone with OCPD has to walk on the sidewalk just right or they will have to go back and step over that pavement tile again and again until it is perfect, and thus a 1 block walk takes 3 hours to complete. Because if they dont something bad will happen.

DSM-5 criteria for narcissistic personality disorder include these features:

Having an exaggerated sense of self-importance
Expecting to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it
Exaggerating your achievements and talents
Being preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate
Believing that you are superior and can only be understood by or associate with equally special people
Requiring constant admiration
Having a sense of entitlement
Expecting special favors and unquestioning compliance with your expectations
Taking advantage of others to get what you want
Having an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others
Being envious of others and believing others envy you
Behaving in an arrogant or haughty manner

[Tribble]

hmmm, that description fits me perfectly as well though I suppose there are different types of narcissists.

[trekky0623]

There's an interesting episode of This American Life that talks about how the personality traits commonly associated with success in corporate places may actually be prime examples of psychopathy. Act 2 is the relevant bit.

[Alyrium Denryle]

hmmm, that description fits me perfectly as well though I suppose there are different types of narcissists.

As I said. Everyone can be a little bit narcissistic. Sometimes. Some are more than others. NPD dials that up to 12.

[Civil War Man]

hmmm, that description fits me perfectly as well though I suppose there are different types of narcissists.

I think the general rule for something like this is that it only graduates to the level of a disorder if it actively interferes with your ability to lead a normal life.

[Korto]

It's best to be extremely distrustful of anyone who claims to be able to diagnosis mental illnesses in a person they've never met, much less examined in a clinical setting.

That's true of most people, who aren't extensively reported and talked about in the media, but I would think there would be a point where someone's life has been so reported that it would be possible to make a decent speculative diagnosis.

[Ziggy Stardust]

The problem with diagnosing someone like Trump with something like NPD is that it is impossible to know when or if he is being completely genuine. For all the (quite accurate and warranted) criticisms leveled at Trump, he is an absolute master at manipulating and trolling the current media climate. We just have no real insight into what he is actually like as a person to be able to say anything beyond, "he is a gigantic asshole."

[Ralin]

The problem with diagnosing someone like Trump with something like NPD is that it is impossible to know when or if he is being completely genuine. For all the (quite accurate and warranted) criticisms leveled at Trump, he is an absolute master at manipulating and trolling the current media climate. We just have no real insight into what he is actually like as a person to be able to say anything beyond, "he is a gigantic asshole."

And to all that you can add the obvious bias that comes with evaluating a controversial and widely disliked public figure. And the potential for harm, both to the subject who gets publicly labeled as crazy and to the credibility and neutrality of the mental health profession in general once it gets involved in political mud slinging.

This isn't like saying that a fictional character like Sherlock Holmes was bipolar even if the author didn't intend him that way. There's no scenario where diagnosing a presidential candidate with a bad mental health issue doesn't feed someone's propaganda mill. And really all it gets you is...what? Psychiatrists agreeing that Donald Trump has some pronounced negative personality traits and behaviors? I think we already knew that

[Zaune]

This isn't like saying that a fictional character like Sherlock Holmes was bipolar even if the author didn't intend him that way. There's no scenario where diagnosing a presidential candidate with a bad mental health issue doesn't feed someone's propaganda mill. And really all it gets you is...what? Psychiatrists agreeing that Donald Trump has some pronounced negative personality traits and behaviors? I think we already knew that.

Pronounced negative personality traits and behaviours he cannot control, at least not fully and consistently. That's the big difference, if only because it means those personality traits weren't a lifestyle choice on Trump's part and we therefore have to cut him some slack.

[Flagg]

I don't know what disorders he has, other than being infested by an alien symbiont or parasitic organism bent on world domination that (poorly) disguises itself as a toupee, bad comb over, or wig. In any case I suggest fire. Lot's of fire. But just for Trump*. The organism is valuable for study.**

*This is clearly a joke, good or bad, and I am in no way suggesting that Donald Trump be set on fire against his will as murder is wrong, no matter how good it would make you feel to see. If you're a psychopath. Which I clearly am not.

**This is unquestionably true, in scientific, philosophical, and an actual monetary sense. I mean even non-intelligent alien life (except Ted Cruz) is more valuable than a douchebag who lost all of his parents money to too many bankruptcies to remember and had to resort to "starring" in an NBC "reality" TV show where the grand prize is being one of Trumps underlings until he declares bankruptcy again for a year.

So again, no kill The Donald.

[Ralin]

Pronounced negative personality traits and behaviours he cannot control, at least not fully and consistently. That's the big difference, if only because it means those personality traits weren't a lifestyle choice on Trump's part and we therefore have to cut him some slack.

Which would be very relevant if any of us were friends with, related to or even working with Trump, or if we were a court about to pass sentence on him. For the public at large I think the difference is pretty academic

[Flagg]

Pronounced negative personality traits and behaviours he cannot control, at least not fully and consistently. That's the big difference, if only because it means those personality traits weren't a lifestyle choice on Trump's part and we therefore have to cut him some slack.

Which would be very relevant if any of us were friends with, related to or even working with Trump, or if we were a court about to pass sentence on him. For the public at large I think the difference is pretty academic

Well, there's a reason I responded to this thread with a joke, namely because the thread itself IS a joke. You can't make psychiatric or psychological diagnoses of public figures like Dump based on their public persona's and speeches because 80% is an act, 15% are downright lies, and 5% is gibberish, and that's being charitable in The Host's case.

[J]

I shall answer your question with the answer to another question, in pictorial form.

[Simon_Jester]

It's best to be extremely distrustful of anyone who claims to be able to diagnosis mental illnesses in a person they've never met, much less examined in a clinical setting.

Thing is, Trump has put more of himself out there in the public eye than almost anyone else. And much of what he doesn't make public, other people have made public for him.

I think it entirely believable that there is enough information about Trump to make a diagnosis possible.

Or, if you choose to advance the argument that "we don't know the real Trump, only his public persona..."

Well, in that case, we can damn sure diagnose his public persona as being not only an asshole, but a narcissistic asshole. If Trump is consciously choosing to behave as he does in public, then he is consciously choosing to behave like a narcissist. If he really is the man he's spent forty years acting like, then he really is a narcissist.

Either way, this says bad things about him.

hmmm, that description fits me perfectly as well though I suppose there are different types of narcissists.

I think the general rule for something like this is that it only graduates to the level of a disorder if it actively interferes with your ability to lead a normal life.

Trump has two divorces, the bankruptcies of four of his companies, and more scandals and lawsuits than I can easily count under his belt.

I thiiink his "being an asshole" issues are interfering with his ability to lead a normal life.

Granted, he has big pots of money and therefore can survive the consequences of repeatedly making bad choices and having major enterprises crash and burn. And of lawsuits over his behavior. But that doesn't mean his mental condition isn't affecting his life; it just means he has a way of compensating for that which most others lack.

[Civil War Man]

hmmm, that description fits me perfectly as well though I suppose there are different types of narcissists.

I think the general rule for something like this is that it only graduates to the level of a disorder if it actively interferes with your ability to lead a normal life.

Trump has two divorces, the bankruptcies of four of his companies, and more scandals and lawsuits than I can easily count under his belt.

I thiiink his "being an asshole" issues are interfering with his ability to lead a normal life.

Granted, he has big pots of money and therefore can survive the consequences of repeatedly making bad choices and having major enterprises crash and burn. And of lawsuits over his behavior. But that doesn't mean his mental condition isn't affecting his life; it just means he has a way of compensating for that which most others lack.

I was speaking more in response to Tribble, since he said the DSM-V definition described himself to a point. Trump is pretty obviously a raging narcissist, regardless of whether or not he technically fits the clinical definition.