Gunman Opens Fire In Concourse at LAX

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

User avatar
Crayz9000
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 7329
Joined: 2002-07-03 06:39pm
Location: Improbably superpositioned
Contact:

Gunman Opens Fire In Concourse at LAX

Post by Crayz9000 »

http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/01/us/lax-gunfire/
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-m ... 7669.story
CNN wrote:
<show caption >
A A A (resize font)
Los Angeles (CNN) - A man armed with what police say was an assault rifle and carrying materials expressing anti-government sentiment opened fire Friday morning at Los Angeles International Airport, killing one person before being chased down himself, authorities said.

Eyewitnesses said the suspect asked people, "Hey, are you TSA?" -- the acronym for the Transportation Security Administration -- according to a federal law enforcement official. If they said "no," he would move on.

In the aftermath of the shooting, investigators found information on the suspect expressing not just anti-federal government sentiment but also anger at the TSA specifically, according to the federal law enforcement official.

By then, a TSA officer was dead -- the first employee of that relatively new agency to be killed in the line of duty, according to American Federation of Government Employees president J. David Cox.

Two others were also shot, FBI special agent in charge David Bowdich said. At least one of them was a TSA employee who was shot in the leg, according to a former Los Angeles Police Department ranking officer who was briefed by investigators.

The suspected gunman himself was detained after being shot in the chest multiple times, according to an intelligence source briefed by Los Angeles police.

He was identified later by the FBI as Paul Anthony Ciancia, a 23-year-old from Los Angeles. Law enforcement sources told CNN that, in addition to the southern California city, the suspect also had an address in New Jersey.

Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center said that, hours after the incident, it received three male victims -- one in critical condition and two in fair condition. One of the two in fair condition suffered gunshot wounds, another suffered an unspecified injury, said Dr. Lynne McCullough, an emergency physician at the Los Angeles hospital.

Two patients were transported to Harbor-UCLA Medical Center in Torrance, said David Klurad, a trauma surgeon there.

One was what Klurad described as a "middle-aged" person with minor injuries from being shot in the shoulder. The other had no signs of life when he arrived at the hospital, the surgeon added. It wasn't known if this person was the slain TSA officer.

TSA: Number of guns discovered in airports rising

The episode caused what airport police Chief Patrick Gannon, who had said the shooter used an "assault rifle," described as a "large amount of chaos." People ran for their lives and took shelter wherever they could as authorities pursued the gunman.

Chuck Ocheret was among those in the busy airport when he heard two "loud pops."

"Then I heard this mad rush of people, and there was a stampede of people coming from this direction," Ocheret told CNN. "Nobody really knew what was going on."

Still, by Friday afternoon, authorities believes the worst was over. Gannon noted it is believed there was only one shooter.

Source: Gunman had 3 magazines for weapon

An otherwise normal day in the airport's Terminal 3 turned upside down around 9:20 a.m. (12:20 p.m. ET), as the suspect approached a checkpoint.

There, he "pulled an assault rifle out of a bag and began to open fire," Gannon said.

The suspect didn't stop there. Equipped with three magazines for his weapon, according to the intelligence source briefed by Los Angeles police, he began running down Terminal 3.

Traveler Vernon Cardenas was sitting at one end of the terminal, when he heard noise and saw a mass of people running toward him. He and others bolted through a kicked-open exit door and ran onto the tarmac -- believing then it was safer there -- even with then still-arriving and departing jetliners -- than in the concourse above.

The circular area where Cardenas had been is where the bloodshed finally ended with the gunman's shooting by law enforcement, according to the intelligence source.

Actor Tim Daly said that when he was eventually led out of the the Virgin America first-class lounge, he saw where the incident came to a head around Gates 35 and 36. After being told not to step on any blood or glass, Daly spotted a high-powered rifle on the ground along with three magazines, a pair of black shoes and several bags strewn across the floor.

The episode soon rendered one of the world's busiest airports a ghost town. Large portions were evacuated as authorities ordered a "ground stop" for arriving places, said police and the Federal Aviation Administration.

Almost every flight scheduled to leave the airport on Friday will be "significantly late," said Gina Marie Lindsay, executive director of Los Angeles World Airports.

The area around the airport was jammed with cars as police shut down access to the airport.

The airport was still accepting incoming flights, but doing so at less than half the normal rate as a few were rerouted, Lindsay said. Some flights that did arrive sat on the tarmac as the investigation continued.

Police at Los Angeles International Airport announced around 2 p.m. over a loudspeaker that they were going to start allowing workers back into the airport so operations such as processing incoming and outbound flights could resume.

The "ground stop" was expected to finally lift two hours later, the airport tweeted -- though even then, hordes of people still lingered on sidewalks outside the airport, with nowhere else to go.

But even when flights resume, parts of Terminal 3 will still be off limits, with flights that were supposed to go in and out of there moved to other terminals in the massive airport.

'Mayhem is the best I can describe it'

That means travelers essentially had nowhere to go for nearly seven hours, far worse than even the most infuriating of Los Angeles' epic traffic jams.

Still, the waiting was welcome relative to the pandemonium hours earlier -- when Robert Perez told CNN affiliate KCAL/KCBS that people started diving for cover and scores rushed down a staircase.

Recalled Perez: "Everybody started to panic."

Alex Neumann described the scene as "mayhem," as people ran and, in some cases, got knocked down.

Even once the suspect was shot and detained, law enforcement officers roamed the airport with guns drawn in search of possible other culprits.

Fast Facts: 25 Deadliest mass shootings in U.S. history

KCAL showed live video of three officers with rifles to their shoulders inspecting parked cars in an open-air parking lot.

At one point, firefighters lay tarps on the street at the airport, apparently for triage. Several ambulances were at the airport, and at least one person was loaded into one.

A U.S. intelligence official "doesn't see any indications of terrorism" in Friday's shooting. The intelligence community has been in "constant contact with a range of law enforcement authorities," according to the official.

President Barack Obama was briefed on the shooting and will continue to be updated, spokesman Jay Carney said. Obama later addressed the issue later while meeting with Iraq's prime minister, saying he was concerned about the shooting.

Authorities were interviewing about 100 witness, the intelligence source said.

A leader of the union representing TSA officers deplored the incident.

"We are sickened by reports of today's shooting," Cox said.
Words fail me.

This was only a matter of time. Security experts have been saying for years that the farcical security measures taken after 9/11 only moved the problem to the concourse, and now this idiot goes and proves it.

Of course, I fully expect the usual overreaction from government authorities. It's quite telling how the CNN article made a big deal about how they "found anti-federal government literature in his belongings" -- proving how so many in government seem to think they are above criticism and free speech should be a privilege rather than a right.

I wouldnt be at all surprised if anything that looks like a convenient target for "enhanced security measures" will be limited or banned. Then once the mass hysteria passes, we'll be back to the usual complacency while we wait for the next disaster to strike.

... yeah, my faith in modern society is at an all time low, and I don't expect any improvement anyime soon.
A Tribute to Stupidity: The Robert Scott Anderson Archive (currently offline)
John Hansen - Slightly Insane Bounty Hunter - ASVS Vets' Assoc. Class of 2000
HAB Cryptanalyst | WG - Intergalactic Alliance and Spoof Author | BotM | Cybertron | SCEF
User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 28773
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest

Re: Gunman Opens Fire In Concourse at LAX

Post by Broomstick »

For the curious - the gun has been identified as an AR-15, a semi-automatic rifle. It's an "assault rifle" in that it's the Colt civilian version of the US military's M16 rifle. The people I know who own one use it for deer hunting, and hunting is probably the most common use of them.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
User avatar
Covenant
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4451
Joined: 2006-04-11 07:43am

Re: Gunman Opens Fire In Concourse at LAX

Post by Covenant »

For the people who aren't familiar, the AR-15 looks like the M16 though, at least they look very similar to one. It isn't surprising people would call it an assault weapon. They don't say if he was laying down a lot of fire though, so it doesn't sound like he modified it back into a fully automatic weapon.

A very sad day.
Grumman
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2488
Joined: 2011-12-10 09:13am

Re: Gunman Opens Fire In Concourse at LAX

Post by Grumman »

An AR-15 is sort of like a four cylinder Ferrari - it might be the same chassis, but that doesn't make it a supercar.
Simon_Jester
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 30165
Joined: 2009-05-23 07:29pm

Re: Gunman Opens Fire In Concourse at LAX

Post by Simon_Jester »

Crayz9000 wrote:Words fail me.

This was only a matter of time. Security experts have been saying for years that the farcical security measures taken after 9/11 only moved the problem to the concourse, and now this idiot goes and proves it.
If he'd actually wanted to kill a lot of people, he'd have killed a lot more people, to boot.
Of course, I fully expect the usual overreaction from government authorities. It's quite telling how the CNN article made a big deal about how they "found anti-federal government literature in his belongings" -- proving how so many in government seem to think they are above criticism and free speech should be a privilege rather than a right.
Possibly. On the other hand, when a man walks into a law enforcement checkpoint and starts shooting people, anything that can provide information about his motives is definitely news. The reaction to this event is going to depend heavily on whether the attacker is (for example) a communist, an ultra-right-wing anarcho-libertarian, an Islamic fundamentalist, or simply a complete lunatic.

Also, while the government might be wrong to think they are above criticism, they are not wrong to think their agents have a right to be free from gunfire. Thus, the man has committed a wrong, and describing literature on his person as "anti-government literature" is entirely reasonable although potentially worrying.
I wouldnt be at all surprised if anything that looks like a convenient target for "enhanced security measures" will be limited or banned. Then once the mass hysteria passes, we'll be back to the usual complacency while we wait for the next disaster to strike.
What are they going to do, put in place a TSA checkpoint to check the items you bring to the real TSA checkpoint? That's recursive, and it won't work.
This space dedicated to Vasily Arkhipov
User avatar
Highlord Laan
Jedi Master
Posts: 1394
Joined: 2009-11-08 02:36pm
Location: Christo-fundie Theofascist Dominion of Nebraskistan

Re: Gunman Opens Fire In Concourse at LAX

Post by Highlord Laan »

Covenant wrote:For the people who aren't familiar, the AR-15 looks like the M16 though, at least they look very similar to one. It isn't surprising people would call it an assault weapon. They don't say if he was laying down a lot of fire though, so it doesn't sound like he modified it back into a fully automatic weapon.

A very sad day.
Which is dammed near impossible to do anyway, unless one manages to get hold of an M-16 trigger assembly, which takes a class 3 FFL, being fingerprinted and around 2-3k for the permit and assembly itself. There is a solid block of aluminium blocking the way in an AR-15, and no, you can't mill it out without risking the weapon. The whole "easily modified for full auto" is a throwaway line of total lying bullshit that the media and other assorted retards like to drag out.

A sad day indeed. My sympathies to the families of that TSA officer.

Maybe now we'll wake the fuck up and actually have proper security at airports, like every other western nation of earth, rather than ignorant, glorified traffic cops.
Never underestimate the ingenuity and cruelty of the Irish.
User avatar
Esquire
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1581
Joined: 2011-11-16 11:20pm

Re: Gunman Opens Fire In Concourse at LAX

Post by Esquire »

Could you say a bit more about airport security in other countries? Is it similar systems, with the difference being in the personnel, or are there different procedures?
“Heroes are heroes because they are heroic in behavior, not because they won or lost.” Nassim Nicholas Taleb
User avatar
Crayz9000
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 7329
Joined: 2002-07-03 06:39pm
Location: Improbably superpositioned
Contact:

Re: Gunman Opens Fire In Concourse at LAX

Post by Crayz9000 »

Domestic flights in Mexico, for the most part, involve cursory metal detector checks throughout the airport and a checked bag search at the gate. I haven't made domestic flights in any other countries so I cannot say much other than pointing out that after 9/11, the US basically forced every country with US-bound flights to institute the same security measures that we use for those international flights.

I believe Israel is usually pointed to as a country that's managed to implement a reasonably effective airport security system.
A Tribute to Stupidity: The Robert Scott Anderson Archive (currently offline)
John Hansen - Slightly Insane Bounty Hunter - ASVS Vets' Assoc. Class of 2000
HAB Cryptanalyst | WG - Intergalactic Alliance and Spoof Author | BotM | Cybertron | SCEF
User avatar
Forgothrax
Padawan Learner
Posts: 255
Joined: 2011-10-01 10:38pm
Location: Michigan, USA, Terra (sometimes)

Re: Gunman Opens Fire In Concourse at LAX

Post by Forgothrax »

Last time I was in Thailand, it was the standard X-Ray walkthrough and bag scan. They really don't give a shit, though.
User avatar
Gandalf
SD.net White Wizard
Posts: 16300
Joined: 2002-09-16 11:13pm
Location: A video store in Australia

Re: Gunman Opens Fire In Concourse at LAX

Post by Gandalf »

Given that he appears to not be a Muslim, how long until the phrase "was mentally ill" pops up in discourse?
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"

- A.B. Original, Report to the Mist

"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately."
- George Carlin
User avatar
Crayz9000
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 7329
Joined: 2002-07-03 06:39pm
Location: Improbably superpositioned
Contact:

Re: Gunman Opens Fire In Concourse at LAX

Post by Crayz9000 »

I think it can be argued that there's something seriously wrong with anyone willing to kill themselves, regardless of religion.
A Tribute to Stupidity: The Robert Scott Anderson Archive (currently offline)
John Hansen - Slightly Insane Bounty Hunter - ASVS Vets' Assoc. Class of 2000
HAB Cryptanalyst | WG - Intergalactic Alliance and Spoof Author | BotM | Cybertron | SCEF
User avatar
Gandalf
SD.net White Wizard
Posts: 16300
Joined: 2002-09-16 11:13pm
Location: A video store in Australia

Re: Gunman Opens Fire In Concourse at LAX

Post by Gandalf »

Crayz9000 wrote:I think it can be argued that there's something seriously wrong with anyone willing to kill themselves, regardless of religion.
True. I probably should have been clearer. My issue is one of the narrative which appears afterwards.

When the suspect has a Middle Eastern sounding name, the narrative quickly becomes a simple one about how Islamic terrorism has struck again, because radical Imams have been corrupting people. However, when it's a white guy, they're quickly dismissed as either mentally ill or a lone nut, neither of whom need to be tied to any greater societal trends.

Of course, I'd be happy to be wrong here.
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"

- A.B. Original, Report to the Mist

"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately."
- George Carlin
User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 28773
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest

Re: Gunman Opens Fire In Concourse at LAX

Post by Broomstick »

Gandalf wrote:Given that he appears to not be a Muslim, how long until the phrase "was mentally ill" pops up in discourse?
Yesterday. When his father, concerned about the tone of some text messages sent by his son, called the LA police department and asked them to perform a welfare check on his son, fearing the young man was suicidal. Which the LA police did... at just about the time the young man was shooting a TSA officer and scaring the shit out of everyone else at LAX.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
User avatar
Crayz9000
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 7329
Joined: 2002-07-03 06:39pm
Location: Improbably superpositioned
Contact:

Re: Gunman Opens Fire In Concourse at LAX

Post by Crayz9000 »

So it appears that the first instinctive reaction is to post armed guards at every airport checkpoint. I'm sure this will do so much for our actual safety from things that can't really be stopped by a bullet, such as... you know... explosives. But it makes the TSA personnel feel better, so I'm sure it's money well spent!

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... s/3394601/
USA Today wrote:WASHINGTON — The union representing airport screeners for the Transportation Security Administration says Friday's fatal shooting of an agent at Los Angeles International Airport highlights the need for armed security officers at every airport checkpoint.

"Every local airport has its own security arrangement with local police to some type of contract security force," said J. David Cox Sr., president of the American Federation of Government Employees, which represents the screeners. "There is no standardization throughout the country. Every airport operates differently. Obviously at L.A. there were a fair number of local police officers there."

MORE: FBI: LAX shooting suspect 'unresponsive'

MORE: LAX: 'Completely normal operations' expected

TSA behavior-detection officer Gerardo Hernandez, 39, was killed in Friday's shooting, and two other agents were wounded.

Law enforcement officers at LAX shot and wounded the alleged shooter, 23-year-old Paul Ciancia, in Terminal 3, preventing what could have been a much larger tragedy.

TSA officials said Saturday that they don't anticipate a change in the agency security posture at the moment, but "passengers may see an increased presence of local law enforcement officers throughout the country."

Every commercial airport is required to have an airport security program that is approved by the TSA. But the agency said it is up to each airport authority and their local law enforcement partners to ensure the plan is implemented.

The screeners, who earn up to $30,000 annually, have not requested to carry guns themselves, but they do want an armed security officer present at every checkpoint, Cox said.

Congress may investigate the issue, but the chairman of the Senate Homeland Security Committee issued a statement Saturday saying that the immediate issue should be comforting the family of the TSA agent who died in Friday's shooting.

"As with any incident of this nature, there will be an appropriate time — after all the facts have been gathered and thoughtfully analyzed —to review existing policy and procedure to see what, if anything, can be learned from this unfortunate incident to help prevent future tragedies," said Sen. Tom Carper, D-Del., who chairs the Homeland Security Committee.

TSA screeners often face physical and verbal attacks, but "there has never been anything life-threatening before," Cox said.

Typically passengers will get angry with an airport screener if a bell goes off and the agent asks the passenger to pass through security a second time or if an agent confiscates a prohibited item.

"There used to be an armed police officer at each security checkpoint at all times," Cox said.
A Tribute to Stupidity: The Robert Scott Anderson Archive (currently offline)
John Hansen - Slightly Insane Bounty Hunter - ASVS Vets' Assoc. Class of 2000
HAB Cryptanalyst | WG - Intergalactic Alliance and Spoof Author | BotM | Cybertron | SCEF
User avatar
Ace Pace
Hardware Lover
Posts: 8456
Joined: 2002-07-07 03:04am
Location: Wasting time instead of money
Contact:

Re: Gunman Opens Fire In Concourse at LAX

Post by Ace Pace »

Crayz9000 wrote: I believe Israel is usually pointed to as a country that's managed to implement a reasonably effective airport security system.
Israel has a fairly effective system from what I know, but it has one massive advantage over the U.S. policies. It's allowed to profile the suspects, without any hiding behind "random assessment". If you're white and speak good English, if you're Jewish, if you hold an Israeli ID card, you're free to pass. If you hold a western EU passport, same, etc.

This significantly simplifies the security guards lives and allows them to focus on actual threats.
Brotherhood of the Bear | HAB | Mess | SDnet archivist |
User avatar
Zaune
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7455
Joined: 2010-06-21 11:05am
Location: In Transit
Contact:

Re: Gunman Opens Fire In Concourse at LAX

Post by Zaune »

It also gives the guards carte blanche to hassle anyone and everyone who could be construed as looking vaguely brown. Israel is not a country that should be held up as anything but an example of how not to handle your terrorism problem.

And aren't the TSA actual law-enforcement anyway?
There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)


Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
-- fgalkin


Like my writing? Tip me on Patreon

I Have A Blog
User avatar
Losonti Tokash
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2916
Joined: 2004-09-29 03:02pm

Re: Gunman Opens Fire In Concourse at LAX

Post by Losonti Tokash »

No, they are not.
User avatar
The Grim Squeaker
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10314
Joined: 2005-06-01 01:44am
Location: A different time-space Continuum
Contact:

Re: Gunman Opens Fire In Concourse at LAX

Post by The Grim Squeaker »

Zaune wrote:. Israel is not a country that should be held up as anything but an example of how not to handle your terrorism problem.
Well, barring the fact that it's worked, despite stringent countermeasures..
(There's an interesting discussion of this in Nate Silver's "The signal and the noise" , I wish I had a kindle edition to copy/paste). It even had a nice power law discussion of terrorism fatalities distributions per event over time, and the tail-off caused by effective measures.

Oh, and as a side note, my father, one sister and half my grandparents are brown as nuts :P. We usually end up getting in the "special checks" line nearly every time we fly to the USA (In the USA that is).

But let's not get off topic.
Photography
Genius is always allowed some leeway, once the hammer has been pried from its hands and the blood has been cleaned up.
To improve is to change; to be perfect is to change often.
User avatar
Ritterin Sophia
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5496
Joined: 2006-07-25 09:32am

Re: Gunman Opens Fire In Concourse at LAX

Post by Ritterin Sophia »

Ace Pace wrote:Israel has a fairly effective system from what I know, but it has one massive advantage over the U.S. policies. It's allowed to profile the suspects, without any hiding behind "random assessment". If you're white and speak good English, if you're Jewish, if you hold an Israeli ID card, you're free to pass. If you hold a western EU passport, same, etc.

This significantly simplifies the security guards lives and allows them to focus on actual threats.
This is the suspected LAX shooter.
Image

Please explain to me how institutionalized racism against brown people was going to help stop this guy.
A Certain Clique, HAB, The Chroniclers
User avatar
Borgholio
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6297
Joined: 2010-09-03 09:31pm
Location: Southern California

Re: Gunman Opens Fire In Concourse at LAX

Post by Borgholio »

He has the beginnings of an evil Mustache. He was going to be the next Stalin.
You will be assimilated...bunghole!
User avatar
Crayz9000
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 7329
Joined: 2002-07-03 06:39pm
Location: Improbably superpositioned
Contact:

Re: Gunman Opens Fire In Concourse at LAX

Post by Crayz9000 »

Going back to what I said earlier about the arguments over Israel's success in counter-terrorism, the racial profiling of course is their most suspect method and one that's a bulwark of their actual airport security measures. I found a dissertation regarding that topic published on Google Books.

However, there is a cultural attitude difference in Israeli passengers as well, from an article I remember reading. Unfortunately my Google-fu is not as strong as it should since I can't seem to find it, but it basically said that airline passengers in Israel are more alert for suspicious activity and more likely to resist a hijacker's demands. I may be terribly misquoting the article.
A Tribute to Stupidity: The Robert Scott Anderson Archive (currently offline)
John Hansen - Slightly Insane Bounty Hunter - ASVS Vets' Assoc. Class of 2000
HAB Cryptanalyst | WG - Intergalactic Alliance and Spoof Author | BotM | Cybertron | SCEF
User avatar
Ace Pace
Hardware Lover
Posts: 8456
Joined: 2002-07-07 03:04am
Location: Wasting time instead of money
Contact:

Re: Gunman Opens Fire In Concourse at LAX

Post by Ace Pace »

General Schatten wrote:
Ace Pace wrote:Israel has a fairly effective system from what I know, but it has one massive advantage over the U.S. policies. It's allowed to profile the suspects, without any hiding behind "random assessment". If you're white and speak good English, if you're Jewish, if you hold an Israeli ID card, you're free to pass. If you hold a western EU passport, same, etc.

This significantly simplifies the security guards lives and allows them to focus on actual threats.
This is the suspected LAX shooter.

Please explain to me how institutionalized racism against brown people was going to help stop this guy.
Learn to read. It wouldn't, and I never claimed it would. What I did say is specific pieces of information to Crayz9000 about why Israel has a reasonably effective airport security system.
Crayz9000 wrote:Going back to what I said earlier about the arguments over Israel's success in counter-terrorism, the racial profiling of course is their most suspect method and one that's a bulwark of their actual airport security measures. I found a dissertation regarding that topic published on Google Books.

However, there is a cultural attitude difference in Israeli passengers as well, from an article I remember reading. Unfortunately my Google-fu is not as strong as it should since I can't seem to find it, but it basically said that airline passengers in Israel are more alert for suspicious activity and more likely to resist a hijacker's demands. I may be terribly misquoting the article.
This is indeed correct, mostly because (again) a "from kindergarden age" approach to "be aware, here are practical things to do for self defense against terror attacks."
Israel's Jewish population as a whole is intensely racist but is also successful in noticing the warning signs of terror activities, from IEDs, to organised suicide bombers to the "new" lonely gun nut.
Brotherhood of the Bear | HAB | Mess | SDnet archivist |
Grumman
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2488
Joined: 2011-12-10 09:13am

Re: Gunman Opens Fire In Concourse at LAX

Post by Grumman »

General Schatten wrote:This is the suspected LAX shooter.

Please explain to me how institutionalized racism against brown people was going to help stop this guy.
Does Israeli airport security treat "brown people" better or worse than the TSA treats everyone? Any stories of Israeli airport security threatening an innocent traveller with a ten thousand dollar fine if she'd rather turn around and go home than let them grope her?
User avatar
Ritterin Sophia
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5496
Joined: 2006-07-25 09:32am

Re: Gunman Opens Fire In Concourse at LAX

Post by Ritterin Sophia »

Grumman wrote:Does Israeli airport security treat "brown people" better or worse than the TSA treats everyone? Any stories of Israeli airport security threatening an innocent traveller with a ten thousand dollar fine if she'd rather turn around and go home than let them grope her?
Someone else doing something worse does not make a third party's actions less wrong.
A Certain Clique, HAB, The Chroniclers
Grumman
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2488
Joined: 2011-12-10 09:13am

Re: Gunman Opens Fire In Concourse at LAX

Post by Grumman »

General Schatten wrote:
Grumman wrote:Does Israeli airport security treat "brown people" better or worse than the TSA treats everyone? Any stories of Israeli airport security threatening an innocent traveller with a ten thousand dollar fine if she'd rather turn around and go home than let them grope her?
Someone else doing something worse does not make a third party's actions less wrong.
You asked how the Israeli approach to airport security would stop this guy. If the Israeli approach means they wouldn't have crossed this guy's "Somebody needs killing" threshold, then it would have stopped him before he even started.
Post Reply