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 Post subject: Rules of American justice: a tale of three cases PostPosted: 2012-01-24 03:21pm
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Rules of American justice: a tale of three cases

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Developments in three legal cases, just from the last 24 hours, potently illuminate the Rules of American Justice. First, the Justice Department yesterday charged a former CIA agent, John Kiriakou, with four felony counts for having allegedly disclosed classified information to reporters about the CIA’s interrogation program. Included among those charges are two counts under the Espionage Act of 1917, based on the allegation that he disclosed information which he “had reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States and to the advantage of any foreign nation.” Kiriakou made news in 2007 when he told ABC News that he led the team that captured accused Terrorist Abu Zubaydah and that the techniques to which Zubaydah was subjected, including waterboarding, clearly constituted “torture,” though he claimed they were effective and arguably justifiable. He’s also accused of being the source for a 2008 New York Times article that disclosed the name of one of Zubaydah’s CIA interrogators.

What’s most notable here is that this is now the sixth prosecution by the Obama administration of an accused leaker, and all six have been charged under the draconian, World-War-I era Espionage Act. As EFF’s Trevor Timm put it yesterday: this is the “6th time under Obama someone is charged with Espionage for leaking to a journalist. Before Obama: only 3 cases in history.” This is all accomplished by characterizing disclosures in American newspapers about America’s wrongdoing as “aiding the enemy” (the alleged enemy being informed is Al Qaeda, but the actual concern is that the American people learn what their government is doing). As The New York Times‘ Charlie Savage wrote this morning, Obama has brought “more such cases than all previous presidents combined,” and by doing so, has won the admiration of the CIA and other intelligence agencies which, above all else, loathe transparency (which happens to be the value that Obama vowed to provide more of than any President in history).


Also yesterday in American justice, a three-judge panel of a federal appellate court in Virginia upheld the dismissal of a lawsuit brought against Donald Rumsfeld and other Bush officials by Jose Padilla, the U.S. citizen who was imprisoned for almost three years without charges or even a lawyer and was systematically tortured to the point of permanent mental incapacitation. Padilla sued the former Defense Secretary on the ground that he had authorized Padilla’s illegal imprisonment and torture. The Obama DOJ vigorously defended Rumsfeld, arguing (a) that Rumsfeld is entitled to immunity on the ground that he had reason to believe his acts were legal and (b) an American citizen has no right to sue a government official for the treatment he receives as a designated “enemy combatant” — even if the treatment in question is torture and prolonged imprisonment without charges.

The three-judge panel accepted those arguments and held Padilla cannot sue those responsible for his torture and lawless imprisonment (Padilla, by stark contrast, recently had his sentence increased when the Bush and Obama DOJs argued that his 17-year prison term was inadequate even in light of the abuse he has suffered). Thus continues the perfect streak of every single War on Terror victim — literally — being denied a day in America’s courts. That does not mean that every War on Terror victim has had their cases heard and lost. It means that each and every one has been denied the right even to have their claims heard in an American court; their cases have been, without exception, dismissed on the grounds of secrecy and/or immunity before the merits of their claims are examined. Even as they have been able to pursue claims against foreign officials in countries around the world, often successfully, the Bush and Obama DOJs have insisted, and courts have agreed, that they have no right even to be heard in an American court against the country and its officials most responsible for their (often savage) mistreatment — even if everyone acknowledges that they were completely innocent.

Finally in American justice yesterday, the conclusion came to the criminal process arising from a horrific 2005 incident in which 24 unarmed Iraqi civilians were slaughtered in the town of Haditha during American raids conducted in the aftermath of an explosion of a roadside bomb. The Marine Staff Sgt. who ordered his soldiers to “shoot first, ask questions later,” Frank Wuterich, was in the midst of a manslaughter trial that could have sent him to prison for life (first-degree murder charges were previously withdrawn by the Government). Instead, prosecutors “offered Wuterich a deal that stopped the proceedings and could mean little to no jail time.” Instead, he “pleaded guilty Monday to negligent dereliction of duty” and “now faces no more than three months in confinement.” Lest you think that’s too lenient: “he could also lose two-thirds of his pay and see his rank demoted to private when he’s sentenced.” The facts underlying this development are as unsurprising as they are familiar:

Wuterich was seen as taking the fall for senior leaders and more seasoned combat veterans, analysts say. . . .

It still fuels anger in Iraq today.

Kamil al-Dulaimi, a Sunni lawmaker from the Anbar provincial capital of Ramadi, called the plea agreement proof that “Americans still deal with Iraqis without any respect.”

“It’s just another barbaric act of Americans against Iraqis,” al-Dulaimi told The Associated Press. “They spill the blood of Iraqis and get this worthless sentence for the savage crime against innocent civilians.”

The Rules of American Justice are quite clear:

(1) If you are a high-ranking government official who commits war crimes, you will receive full-scale immunity, both civil and criminal, and will have the American President demand that all citizens Look Forward, Not Backward.

(2) If you are a low-ranking member of the military, you will receive relatively trivial punishments in order to protect higher-ranking officials and cast the appearance of accountability.

(3) If you are a victim of American war crimes, you are a non-person with no legal rights or even any entitlement to see the inside of a courtroom.

(4) If you talk publicly about any of these war crimes, you have committed the Gravest Crime — you are guilty of espionage – and will have the full weight of the American criminal justice system come crashing down upon you.


So warped but clear are these Rules of American Justice that they produced darkly sardonic applications yesterday. Mazahir Hussein said: “Bradley Manning should’ve really considered committing some war crimes instead of exposing them.” Regarding this heinous story about a campaign manager of a Democratic House candidate in Arkansas coming home to find his child’s cat murdered with the word “LIBERAL” scrawled on the cat’s corpse, a picture of which made its way to the Internet to highlight how horrible a crime it was, one commenter applied the Obama mentality as follows: “We should look forward, not back on this cat killing. But perhaps whoever released that photo should be prosecuted.” And about the Kiriakou case, John Cole sarcastically celebrated: “At Long Last, Someone Will Face a Waterboarding Related Prosecution, and then added: “He’s being prosecuted for blabbing about what happened- not the actual crime itself.”


It’s long past time to rip those blindfolds off of the Lady Justice statues. When the purpose of American justice is to shield those who with the greatest power who commit the most egregious crimes, while severely punishing those who talk publicly about those crimes, it’s hard to imagine how it can get much more degraded or corrupted than that.

* * * * *

Part of the DOJ’s criminal investigation in the Kiriakou matter included investigating whether criminal defense lawyers representing GITMO detainees, from the ACLU and elsewhere, committed crimes by attempting to learn of the identity of the CIA agents who tortured their clients (so that they could sue or otherwise hold those torturers accountable: exactly what any competent lawyer should do). Although the DOJ ultimately decided yesterday against indictments of those lawyers, the very fact that the DOJ criminally investigated them at all is self-evidently dangerous. About that investigation, ACLU Executive Director Anthony Romero told Savage that “it — and the Obama-era leak investigations more broadly — had had a ‘chilling effect on defense counsel, government whistle-blowers, and journalists’.” That, of course, is exactly its purpose.



Three cheers for Obama.



Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
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 Post subject: Re: Rules of American justice: a tale of three cases PostPosted: 2012-01-24 03:51pm
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(b) an American citizen has no right to sue a government official for the treatment he receives as a designated “enemy combatant” — even if the treatment in question is torture and prolonged imprisonment without charges.


Wait, what? This makes no sense whatever.



You are standing on a 4.5 billion year old complex, self-sustaining organic spacship, which is orbiting a power source a million times larger than your ship. There are 200 billion other power sources, many of them with ships like yours, in your fleet. There are 40 other fleets in the immediate neighbourhood and your entire neighbourhood is moving at two million miles per hour towards an object 150 million light years away. Welcome to life, it's a lot more exciting when you think on larger scales.

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 Post subject: Re: Rules of American justice: a tale of three cases PostPosted: 2012-01-24 04:00pm
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I saw this earlier today and it does not surprise me in the least. Especially the Haditha case follows the long established pattern of the US armed forces and government loudly and proudly covering up war crimes by its members without even an attempt at accountability, punishment or anything else and going "Fuck you!" to the victims with a shit-eating grin on its collective face.

[war crime apologist]Oh noes, Wuterich may face three months of confinement and bad conduct discharge after being busted to private and some loss of pay! Surely he has been punished enough![/war crime apologist]

Fucking disgusting.



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 Post subject: Re: Rules of American justice: a tale of three cases PostPosted: 2012-01-24 04:02pm
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Eternal_Freedom wrote:
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(b) an American citizen has no right to sue a government official for the treatment he receives as a designated “enemy combatant” — even if the treatment in question is torture and prolonged imprisonment without charges.


Wait, what? This makes no sense whatever.

What rock have you been living under for the past 11 years? It makes perfect sense, because all that is required for you to be tortured, disappeared and locked up for the rest of your life without trial is someone in the executive branch to accuse you of being a terrorist, never mind whether they have evidence or not or any other due process guarantees.

It also ties into all that war crimes stuff.



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 Post subject: Re: Rules of American justice: a tale of three cases PostPosted: 2012-01-24 04:17pm
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Eternal_Freedom wrote:
Quote:
(b) an American citizen has no right to sue a government official for the treatment he receives as a designated “enemy combatant” — even if the treatment in question is torture and prolonged imprisonment without charges.


Wait, what? This makes no sense whatever.


Making sense has nothing to do with it. You remember the quote that Stas Bush used to have in his sig? About how there is power, and only power, and everything else is just window dressing?

This crap is... well some of it is down to human nature, there's always going to be abuse of the system, there are always tyrants (though this is proof that the American system is fundamentally unfit for its oft-stated purpose of preventing tyranny)... but a part of this is a direct philosophical descendant of all that cold war Realpolitik tit-for-tat game theory shit.

Whenever stuff about torture comes up, I am reminded of Eliza Mannigham-Buller's (the former deputy-head of MI5) Reith Lecture on 'Security':

Quote:
And torture. Torture is illegal in our national law and in international law. It is wrong and never justified. It is a sadness and worse that the previous government of our great ally, the United States, chose to water-board some detainees. The argument that life- saving intelligence was thereby obtained, and I accept it was, still does not justify it. Torture should be utterly rejected even when it may offer the prospect of saving lives.

I am proud my Service refused to turn to the torture of high-level German prisoners in the Second World War, when, in the early years, we stood alone and there was a high risk of our being invaded and becoming a Nazi province. So if not then, why should it be justified now? I believe that the acquisition of short-term gain through water-boarding and other forms of mistreatment was a profound mistake and lost the United States moral authority and some of the widespread sympathy it had enjoyed as a result of 9/11. And I am confident that I know the answer to the question of whether torture has made the world a safer place. It hasn’t.



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 Post subject: Re: Rules of American justice: a tale of three cases PostPosted: 2012-01-24 04:24pm
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and the obama maladministration comments:

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White House spokesman Jay Carney previewed President Obama’s State of the Union speech tonight as follows: “The State of the Union will be . . . about the central mission that we have as a country and his focus as president: Building a country and an economy where we reward hard work and responsibility, where everyone does their fair share, and where everyone is held accountable for what they do.” I find it hard to believe that they don’t cynically cackle in private when they come up with these things


He apparently did not add "unless of course, they kill brown people, or torture, or talk about our crimes".



Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------------
"You know, you insist government is depraved for not legislating against what we can see on newsstands, or what we can see in an art exhibit, or what we can burn in protest, or which sex we can have sex with, or a woman's right to choose, but don't you dare try to regulate this deadly weapon I have concealed on me, for that would encroach against my freedom!"
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Et si omnes ego non

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 Post subject: Re: Rules of American justice: a tale of three cases PostPosted: 2012-01-24 04:35pm
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Man. It's hilariously terrible that the only person running for president who might even consider putting a stop to this crap is that crazy Ron Paul fellow.

Jesus Christ.
Do you think, like an alcoholic, America needs to hit rock bottom before it can pull its shit together? I hope not, I hope the Occupy* guys can rein things in peacefully; but to me it seems like the tree of liberty will, in fact, have to be watered with the blood of patriots and tyrants before things take a turn for the better.



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 Post subject: Re: Rules of American justice: a tale of three cases PostPosted: 2012-01-24 04:37pm
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Edi wrote:
Eternal_Freedom wrote:
Quote:
(b) an American citizen has no right to sue a government official for the treatment he receives as a designated “enemy combatant” — even if the treatment in question is torture and prolonged imprisonment without charges.


Wait, what? This makes no sense whatever.

What rock have you been living under for the past 11 years? It makes perfect sense, because all that is required for you to be tortured, disappeared and locked up for the rest of your life without trial is someone in the executive branch to accuse you of being a terrorist, never mind whether they have evidence or not or any other due process guarantees.

It also ties into all that war crimes stuff.


I knew shit like this happenned, I just had hoped it wouldn't be included in legal precedent. This is some fucked up shit.

On that State of the Union comment, Jesus, there's being hypocritcal and then there's taking the piss.



You are standing on a 4.5 billion year old complex, self-sustaining organic spacship, which is orbiting a power source a million times larger than your ship. There are 200 billion other power sources, many of them with ships like yours, in your fleet. There are 40 other fleets in the immediate neighbourhood and your entire neighbourhood is moving at two million miles per hour towards an object 150 million light years away. Welcome to life, it's a lot more exciting when you think on larger scales.

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 Post subject: Re: Rules of American justice: a tale of three cases PostPosted: 2012-01-24 04:40pm
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evilsoup wrote:
...but to me it seems like the tree of liberty will, in fact, have to be watered with the blood of patriots and tyrants before things take a turn for the better.

And the blood of innocent bystanders. Can't forget that part.



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 Post subject: Re: Rules of American justice: a tale of three cases PostPosted: 2012-01-24 04:50pm
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The Obama DOJ vigorously defended Rumsfeld, arguing (a) that Rumsfeld is entitled to immunity on the ground that he had reason to believe his acts were legal and (b) an American citizen has no right to sue a government official for the treatment he receives as a designated “enemy combatant” — even if the treatment in question is torture and prolonged imprisonment without charges.

The three-judge panel accepted those arguments and held Padilla cannot sue those responsible for his torture and lawless imprisonment


This, for me as a strong believer in the rule of law, is actually the most chilling part. Yes there is state-sanctioned killing and the president is a tyrant and the legislature are aiding and abetting his tyranny; but even the judiciary are subverted to this monstrous horseshit. In some countries judges are persecuted for finding against the government. In the Land of the Free, the judges are in the pocket of the tyrants.

Zaune wrote:
evilsoup wrote:
...but to me it seems like the tree of liberty will, in fact, have to be watered with the blood of patriots and tyrants before things take a turn for the better.

And the blood of innocent bystanders. Can't forget that part.


Exactly. That's why the prospect scares me: the losses of human life that might have to take place to overturn this kind of crap. Hopefully the Occupy* lot will succeed, or democracy will actually start to work, or... but it seems like this won't be the case, to me.



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 Post subject: Re: Rules of American justice: a tale of three cases PostPosted: 2012-01-24 05:41pm
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I wish that our own government would be nearly as harsh with the espionage activities. Especially after wikileaks outed multiple members of parliament as active spies for the US. Pity that we seem to be so keen to follow the same path.



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 Post subject: Re: Rules of American justice: a tale of three cases PostPosted: 2012-01-24 06:41pm
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evilsoup wrote:
Do you think, like an alcoholic, America needs to hit rock bottom before it can pull its shit together?

At this stage, the cirrhosis and cancer is too far gone. America is going down in flames, whether by outright rebellion, or from foreigners they have wronged.



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 Post subject: Re: Rules of American justice: a tale of three cases PostPosted: 2012-01-24 06:54pm
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Let's not get overdramatic. The US society is capable of astounding shifts within a single decade, so there is hope. And the US is not collapsing anytime soon either, nor is that something to be wished for.

All the Obama enablers however can pretty much take a hike.



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"You know, you insist government is depraved for not legislating against what we can see on newsstands, or what we can see in an art exhibit, or what we can burn in protest, or which sex we can have sex with, or a woman's right to choose, but don't you dare try to regulate this deadly weapon I have concealed on me, for that would encroach against my freedom!"
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Et si omnes ego non

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 Post subject: Re: Rules of American justice: a tale of three cases PostPosted: 2012-01-24 06:58pm
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By the way, shit like this obviously doesn't happen only in america.



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 Post subject: Re: Rules of American justice: a tale of three cases PostPosted: 2012-01-24 07:28pm
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Of course there is assholeism all around the world, but Eulogy I don't see how that's really similar to what is described in this article.

Quote:
The case against Garzón for investigating Francoist crimes has been brought privately by a tiny trade union with far-right connections called Clean Hands.


So a tiny fringe group with no links to the government brings a private prosecution that they will probably lose, and this is somehow similar to the full might of the US federal government bearing down on individual court cases? You'll notice that the judge involved actually did break the law (the judgement will essentially be over whether that was a just law in the first place) in order to investigate those crimes. Think about that for a second: he was willing to overstep a wrongful law in order to investigate crimes committed a generation ago; while the Obama-enabling fuckhead judges in Thanas' article are too timid or corrupt to apply the law of the land as it stands right now, when facing a blatant injustice.

The judiciary should be the last line of defence for civil liberties. In America even the judges are a part of the problem. The entire system is fucked. I don't think there'll be a full revolution, but it may be that some fire is needed to burn out the rot.



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 Post subject: Re: Rules of American justice: a tale of three cases PostPosted: 2012-01-25 01:53am
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Thanas wrote:
Let's not get overdramatic. The US society is capable of astounding shifts within a single decade,


So did a 'certain' country from 1939-1949, but it needed a little "coaxing". :twisted:

Quote:
so there is hope.


I remember 'this':

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Back in 2008, how'd that work out? :roll:

Quote:
And the US is not collapsing anytime soon either, nor is that something to be wished for.


Easy to claim from the other side of the world, being here otoh, it's bad, real bad. Just look at Detroit. While guys like Romney pay a pittance in taxes, schools are overflowing & streets crumbling, bridges collapsing

gov'ts have been overthrown for less in the past.

When the Occupy movement returns in the spring, it'll have larger numbers & hungrier, angrier at that. And I doubt the results of Nov. will fix anything.

Hell, we might even see a "Storming of The Bastille" to liberate imprisoned whistleblowers, w/ the Govt response sparking a general revolution. 8) Where will the EU stand if such occurs?

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 Post subject: Re: Rules of American justice: a tale of three cases PostPosted: 2012-01-25 02:13am
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Well, the Espionage Act was enacted under Woodrow Wilson's imprimatur. Obama's just continuing a progressive tendency. Really, does this surprise anyone but the fools who voted for him?



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 Post subject: Re: Rules of American justice: a tale of three cases PostPosted: 2012-01-25 03:57am
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No, but the above statement suprises anybody with a shred of intelligence.



Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
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"You know, you insist government is depraved for not legislating against what we can see on newsstands, or what we can see in an art exhibit, or what we can burn in protest, or which sex we can have sex with, or a woman's right to choose, but don't you dare try to regulate this deadly weapon I have concealed on me, for that would encroach against my freedom!"
- Sam Seaborn
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Et si omnes ego non

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 Post subject: Re: Rules of American justice: a tale of three cases PostPosted: 2012-01-25 04:11am
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Thanas wrote:
No, but the above statement suprises anybody with a shred of intelligence.


Not coming from Chocula, it doesn't...

:banghead:

You know that scene in Alien where the droid goes insane, spins around and tries to kill Ripley. I read the above cases, and did that. Sans the killing Ripley part. I cant even process this shit right now. No insightful commentary, and I dont Internet Tough Guy generally. Just... Mark II Android insanity.



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 Post subject: Re: Rules of American justice: a tale of three cases PostPosted: 2012-01-25 08:58am
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ComradeClaus wrote:
Hell, we might even see a "Storming of The Bastille" to liberate imprisoned whistleblowers, w/ the Govt response sparking a general revolution. 8) Where will the EU stand if such occurs?

The general public or the various European governments? The average European citizen would probably be cheering on the rebels and/or taking rather malicious satisfaction in watching the great and powerful United States being brung low, but whether or not that would translate to any sort of officially sanctioned aid I have no idea. And in any case, a number of European countries are teetering on the brink of civil disorder themselves.



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 Post subject: Re: Rules of American justice: a tale of three cases PostPosted: 2012-01-25 09:13am
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ComradeClaus wrote:
Hell, we might even see a "Storming of The Bastille" to liberate imprisoned whistleblowers, w/ the Govt response sparking a general revolution. 8) Where will the EU stand if such occurs?


No we won't.



Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------------
"You know, you insist government is depraved for not legislating against what we can see on newsstands, or what we can see in an art exhibit, or what we can burn in protest, or which sex we can have sex with, or a woman's right to choose, but don't you dare try to regulate this deadly weapon I have concealed on me, for that would encroach against my freedom!"
- Sam Seaborn
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Et si omnes ego non

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 Post subject: Re: Rules of American justice: a tale of three cases PostPosted: 2012-01-25 11:51am
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For perspective, let me remind everyone that this is a country which, until about forty years ago, regularly hung people, mostly black, with public festivities and without trial. At its peak, between 1890 and 1930, this occurred two or three times a day. That the US still has fundamental cultural problems with universal justice is not surprising.



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 Post subject: Re: Rules of American justice: a tale of three cases PostPosted: 2012-01-25 12:08pm
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Surlethe wrote:
For perspective, let me remind everyone that this is a country which, until about forty years ago, regularly hung people, mostly black, with public festivities and without trial. At its peak, between 1890 and 1930, this occurred two or three times a day. That the US still has fundamental cultural problems with universal justice is not surprising.


That does not make it any less repugnant.



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 Post subject: Re: Rules of American justice: a tale of three cases PostPosted: 2012-01-25 01:53pm
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And especially does not excuse anything when the US is moving backwards, not forwards.

And when you got a president celebrating it is even worse.



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 Post subject: Re: Rules of American justice: a tale of three cases PostPosted: 2012-01-25 02:23pm
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evilsoup wrote:
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The case against Garzón for investigating Francoist crimes has been brought privately by a tiny trade union with far-right connections called Clean Hands.


So a tiny fringe group with no links to the government brings a private prosecution that they will probably lose, and this is somehow similar to the full might of the US federal government bearing down on individual court cases? You'll notice that the judge involved actually did break the law (the judgement will essentially be over whether that was a just law in the first place) in order to investigate those crimes. Think about that for a second: he was willing to overstep a wrongful law in order to investigate crimes committed a generation ago; while the Obama-enabling fuckhead judges in Thanas' article are too timid or corrupt to apply the law of the land as it stands right now, when facing a blatant injustice.

The judiciary should be the last line of defence for civil liberties. In America even the judges are a part of the problem. The entire system is fucked. I don't think there'll be a full revolution, but it may be that some fire is needed to burn out the rot.


Emm...

In as much as Garzon is concerned, opposition to his judicial actions supporting the investigation of Francoist misdeeds was extraordinarily strong, including the then main opposition party (which is now the ruling party), large segments of the population, right leaning media and according to a number of sources large segments of the judiciary.

Manos Limpias (Clean Hands) is less than the tip of the iceberg.



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