US Soldier introduces Afghans to US trad. of spree killings

[MKSheppard]

link

The soldier has not been named, but is thought to be a staff sergeant.

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BBC's Quentin Sommerville: "This kind of rogue event is almost unknown in Afghanistan"
He is reported to have walked off his base at around 03:00 local time (22:30 GMT Saturday) and headed to nearby villages, moving methodically from house to house.

"Eleven members of my family are dead. They are all dead," Haji Samad, an elder from Najeeban village, told the AFP news agency.

Haji Sayed Jan, from Alkozai village, was quoted by the AFP as saying: "My home was attacked and I lost four family members".

A delegation from the provincial governor's office has arrived in the village to determine exactly what happened, a spokesman said.

The soldier - who had reportedly suffered a breakdown before the attacks - is said to have handed himself over to the US military authorities after carrying out the killings.

God damn I love working on Afghan soil, Dan. Our days are numbered. Till then it's like you always say, we're Afghanistan's only protection."

From what?

You kidding me? From themselves. Now let's go crack some heads.

{OOC: because shroomy was feeling meh, I did this for him. }

[Chirios]

Surprised they kept the name of the soldier secret tbh.

[Aaron MkII]

Odds of him being tried in Afghanistan?

[Mr Bean]

Surprised they kept the name of the soldier secret tbh.

If they know the name of the solider they can find the unit, if they know the unit the reprisal killings can begin.

[Chirios]

Surprised they kept the name of the soldier secret tbh.

If they know the name of the solider they can find the unit, if they know the unit the reprisal killings can begin.

Ah. Fair enough.

Odds of him being tried in Afghanistan?

Impossible. The US as a matter of law doesn't allow its soldiers to be tried in foreign courts.

[Zaune]

Impossible. The US as a matter of law doesn't allow its soldiers to be tried in foreign courts.

What about former soldiers who've been dishonourably discharged? Assuming the court martial doesn't give him the death penalty, of course, which is at least a possibility.

[Rogue 9]

Impossible. The US as a matter of law doesn't allow its soldiers to be tried in foreign courts.

What about former soldiers who've been dishonourably discharged? Assuming the court martial doesn't give him the death penalty, of course, which is at least a possibility.

I suppose that would depend on extradition treaties with Afghanistan, if any.

[Keevan_Colton]

Assuming the court martial doesn't give him the death penalty, of course, which is at least a possibility.

That's got to be the best joke I've read all week. There is zero chance of that happening and precious little likelihood of a custodial term befitting the magnitude of the slaughter.

[Thanas]

He'll get off with a slap to the wrist, because being a taxi driver for Al-quida is far worse than killing civilians in the judgement of the US Military. Heck, the last guy who killed/ordered the killings of Hadhita, including little girls, did not even receive a reduction of pay.

The US Military is a joke when it comes to prosecuting its wrongdoings.

[Mr Bean]

Don't let me get in the path of your cynicism parade but lets review. A soldier took his weapon off base and went on a shoot spree of nearby civilians and had to be taken down by his fellow soldiers. Was the NATO response particularly poorly thought out (They called it unconfirmed reports despite the number of witnesses, physical evidence and shooter in custody) yes, but if it's one thing the military does well is poorly handle large amount of civilian deaths.

However the only question is, is the guy going to be section 8 out of the military then sent to psychiatric care or is he going to be court marshaled and shot. This was a deliberate after hours personal murder spree. This is not one guy going crazy and his unit covering for him on patrol or a unit going murder happy on things they think are the enemy. This is a guy with a gun MDK three houses right off base of civilians.

[Rogue 9]

Assuming the court martial doesn't give him the death penalty, of course, which is at least a possibility.

That's got to be the best joke I've read all week. There is zero chance of that happening and precious little likelihood of a custodial term befitting the magnitude of the slaughter.

Why? This isn't anything remotely describable as "line of duty;" he went on a murder spree on his own time, or possibly while derelicting duty depending on what he was supposed to be doing at the time. It might not be much practical difference to the victims, but it's a world of difference to what he'll be charged with.

[cosmicalstorm]

Lets see if he gets a taste of the famous Bradley Manning protocol.

[Keevan_Colton]

Why? This isn't anything remotely describable as "line of duty;" he went on a murder spree on his own time, or possibly while derelicting duty depending on what he was supposed to be doing at the time. It might not be much practical difference to the victims, but it's a world of difference to what he'll be charged with.

Well, there is the little issue that the US military has a terrible track record when it comes to the prosecution of crimes by its members (including the willful murder of civilians as cited by Thanas) and then there's the fact that it's been over 50 years since anyone has been court-martialed and shot by the US...so, yeah, going by what precedent can be seen, this guy will likely get an insanity style plea out or a token custodial term. There is essentially no chance they will execute him.

[Elfdart]

Lets see if he gets a taste of the famous Bradley Manning protocol.

Don't be silly! Manning is a much greater menace to America: Fuck Yeah! Were it not for his whistleblowing, Uncle Sam would still be occupying Iraq.

[Eulogy]

Well, there is the little issue that the US military has a terrible track record when it comes to the prosecution of crimes by its members (including the willful murder of civilians as cited by Thanas) and then there's the fact that it's been over 50 years since anyone has been court-martialed and shot by the US...so, yeah, going by what precedent can be seen, this guy will likely get an insanity style plea out or a token custodial term. There is essentially no chance they will execute him.

Unless of course, somebody learns his name and face, and relays that to the families of the victims. If the US won't deal out fair justice, others WILL, eventually, take it upon themselves to mete that justice out themselves, no matter what anyone thinks or if they approve.

By now it's apparent that the US military continues to make themselves look like cartoon villains, and nobody is going to trust them.

[Lord of the Abyss]

Surprised they kept the name of the soldier secret tbh.

If they know the name of the solider they can find the unit, if they know the unit the reprisal killings can begin.

That argument doesn't make much sense; why would the Afghans care what unit he's from? If they want to indulge in reprisal killings they can pick just any old American soldier.

Personally, I'd think the more likely reason is that it makes it easier to sweep the entire affair under the rug domestically. No name, no face, no way to keep track of what's happening.

[Aaron MkII]

They'll bring him back before any of that has a chance to happen, I would think.

[noncredible]

Another link:

President Barack Obama has called an incident in which an American soldier killed 16 Afghan civilians, including nine children, "tragic and shocking".

In a written statement, Mr Obama said: "I offer my condolences to the families and loved ones of those who lost their lives, and to the people of Afghanistan, who have endured too much violence and suffering.
"This incident is tragic and shocking, and does not represent the exceptional character of our military and the respect that the United States has for the people of Afghanistan."
The president offered his full backing to a US investigation "to get the facts as quickly as possible and to hold accountable anyone responsible".
The US leader has spoken to Afghan President Hamid Karzai, who earlier demanded an explanation for what he termed an "assassination".

US Defence Secretary Leon Panetta also assured Mr Karzai in a phone call that a "full investigation" was under way.
"A suspect is in custody, and I gave President Karzai my assurances that we will bring those responsible to justice," Mr Panetta said.
The Defence Secretary added that he is "shocked and saddened that a US service member... clearly acting outside his chain of command" has been linked to the incident.
Mr Panetta said he told Mr Karzai "that the American people share the outrage" felt by the Afghan leader and his people.
The gunman, believed to be a lone rogue soldier from Fort Lewis in Washington, went from house to house in two villages in southern Kandahar during the night.
Shooting began at around 3am, according to officials. Among the victims were at least three women, a child aged just two and elderly men.
Neighbours said the soldier had appeared drunk and relatives of the victims claimed chemicals were poured over the dead bodies to burn them. Pictures of the scene appeared to show the remains of burning in at least one of the houses.
Mr Karzai said in a statement: "This is an assassination, an intentional killing of innocent civilians and cannot be forgiven."
The gunman, reported to be an Army staff sergeant, returned to his base after the spree and is said to have turned himself in. US officials have confirmed he is in custody.
Gul Bashra, the mother of the two-year-old who died, told the Associated Press: "They [Americans] killed a child, who was two-years-old. Was this child a Taliban [member]?
I cannot explain the motivation behind such callous acts, but they were in no way part of authorised Isaf military activity.
Lt Gen Adrian Bradshaw, Isaf Deputy Commander
"Believe me, I have not seen a two-year-old Taliban [member] yet. There is no Taliban here. They [America] are always threatening us with dogs and helicopters during night raids."
Another man said 11 of his relatives, including his children, had been killed in the shooting which took place in the Panjwayi district.
"They (Americans) poured chemicals over their dead bodies and burned them," a weeping Haji Samad told Reuters at the scene."I saw that all 11 of my relatives were killed, including my children and grandchildren."
Pictures showed blood-splattered walls where the children died.
Neighbours said they awoke to crackling gunfire from American soldiers, whom they described as laughing and drunk.

"They were all drunk and shooting all over the place," Agha Lala, who visited one of the homes where the incident took place, said. "Their bodies were riddled with bullets."
One resident, Abdul Baqi, told the Associated Press: "When it was happening in the middle of the night, we were inside our houses. I heard gunshots and then silence and then gunshots again."
An AP photographer saw 15 bodies in the two villages. Some had been burned, while others were covered with blankets.
The Panjwayi district is about 22 miles west of the provincial capital Kandahar city and is considered the spiritual home of the Taliban and a hive of insurgent activity.
International forces have fought for control of the area for years as they have tried to subdue the Taliban in their rural strongholds.
The two villages where the rampage happened, Balandi and Alkozai, are around 500m from the US base.
The Nato-led International Security Assistance Force (Isaf) confirmed the incident but did not release the number of killed or injured.
The US commander of Isaf vowed to hold "fully accountable" anyone found responsible for the "deeply appalling" killings.

"I am absolutely dedicated to making sure that anyone who is found to have committed wrong-doing is held fully accountable," General John Allen said.
Isaf Deputy Commander Lt Gen Adrian Bradshaw said: "I wish to convey my profound regrets and dismay at the actions apparently taken by one coalition member in Kandahar province.
"I cannot explain the motivation behind such callous acts, but they were in no way part of authorised Isaf military activity."
The Afghan defence ministry said: "The defence minister... is deeply shocked and saddened by the killings of 15 innocent civilians and the wounding of nine more at the hands of the Coalition forces."
:: Analysis - Afghan Deaths Strain Already Tense Relations
The US embassy in Kabul also issued an apology, saying: "We deplore any attack by a member of the US armed forces against innocent civilians, and denounce all violence against civilians.
"We assure the people of Afghanistan that the individual or individuals responsible for this act will be identified and brought to justice."
Meanwhile, White House National Security Council spokesman Caitlin Hayden said: "We are deeply concerned by the initial reports of this incident, and are monitoring the situation closely."

The incident adds new tensions to a relationship already severely strained over US forces burning Muslim holy books on a base in Afghanistan.
Although US officials apologised and said the burning was an accident, the incident sparked violent protests and attacks.
Six American soldiers have been killed in attacks by their Afghan colleagues since the Koran burnings came to light. Britain also pulled out civilian advisers from buildings in Kabul as protests spread.
The controversy followed an outrage over a video showing US marines urinating on the bodies of dead Taliban fighters.
Sky defence reporter Mark Stone said: "It really is not good at a time when the Americans and the coalition in general are trying to extract themselves from this very difficult war."

One part that interests me is

They were all drunk and shooting all over the place

This implies that there was more than one shooter. On the other hand, when it comes to machine guns, it can be easy to mistake one person for several, especially at night.

[K. A. Pital]

Taliban said something like "We shall teach those sick American barbarians a lesson" in a statement last night.

[Winston Blake]

Second BBC News article:

US fears reprisals after Afghan massacre in Kandahar
Caption: [Afghan soldier at military base in Panjwai, Kandahar Angry crowds have been gathering outside military bases in Afghanistan following the shootings]

US troops in Afghanistan have been placed on alert following the killings of 16 Afghan civilians by a US soldier.

US officials warned of reprisals after the soldier went on a rampage in villages near a base in Kandahar. Nine children were among those killed.

President Barack Obama phoned his Afghan counterpart Hamid Karzai to express condolences. But Mr Karzai has said the massacre is "unforgivable".

And Taliban militants have vowed to avenge the deaths.

US Defence Secretary Leon Panetta has said a full investigation is under way.

The soldier, believed to be a staff sergeant, is reported to have walked off his base at around 03:00 Sunday (22:30 GMT Saturday).

In the villages of Alkozai and Najeeban, about 500m (1,640ft) from the base, he reportedly broke into three homes.

At one house in Najeeban, 11 people were found shot dead, and some of their bodies set alight. At least three of the child victims are reported to have been killed by a single shot to the head.

" There is a risk of anti-American feelings and protests in coming days, especially in the eastern and southern provinces”

The US military said reports indicated that the soldier returned to his base after the shootings and turned himself in. His motives are unclear - there is speculation that he might have been drunk or suffered a mental breakdown. But officers are worried that the attack might have been planned.

The soldier is being detained in Kandahar and the military is treating at least five people wounded in the attacks, officials said.

The detained soldier has not been identified, although US officials quoted by the Associated Press news agency said he was from Joint Base Lewis-McChord in Washington state, 38 years old, married with two children, and had served three tours in Iraq and was on his first deployment in Afghanistan.

The killings come amid already high anti-US sentiment in Afghanistan following the burning of Korans at a Nato base in Kabul last month.

US officials have repeatedly apologised for the incident but they failed to quell a series of protests and attacks that killed at least 30 people and six US troops.

[...]

Angry tribal elders are now demanding an immediate end to US night raids on Afghan homes.

Afghan MPs passed a strong resolution to condemn the killing and demanded an open trial on Afghan soil. However, Afghanistan has signed an agreement with Nato that foreign soldiers should be tried in their own countries.

[...]

Is killing civilians inevitable in war?

The US embassy in Kabul is restricting the movements of staff in southern Afghanistan until at least 17:00 local time on Monday.

In a statement released by the White House on Sunday, President Obama said: "This incident is tragic and shocking, and does not represent the exceptional character of our military and the respect that the United States has for the people of Afghanistan."

Our correspondent says Afghan officials also fear there will be violent demonstrations and have deployed extra police and troops around Kandahar.

President Karzai described the killings as the "intentional killing of innocent civilians" and said they could "not be forgiven".

Carsten Jacobson, Isaf: "We were shocked and saddened to hear of the incident."

Summary of the dead:
- 16 total, 11 in one house.
- At least 3 women.
- Some number of elderly men.
- 9 children dead, including a 2 year old child.
- At least three children killed by single shot to the head.

So if I've tallied this up correctly, it's roughly: 9 kids, 3 women, 4 men. The usual response: 'tragic, shocking, saddening - but it should not reflect badly on our organisation, it should not detract from the exceptional work we have been doing, etc'.

Although this can't be construed as a combat scenario, I can't see them 'making an example of him', because even televised execution wouldn't placate the Afghans. I'm putting my imaginary money on Colton's scenario - 'it was just a temporary mental breakdown, let's send him to a high-security psychiatric facility for a few years'.

[Tanasinn]

If they want to indulge in reprisal killings they can pick just any old American soldier.

Certainly, we know that this method doesn't rankle with Afghans, either, who've murdered several coalition soldiers since the Quran-burning incident. Guilt by association is good enough for some folks.

[Aaron MkII]

Why would they care if they get the right guy? In their eyes we're invaders and infidels, and whatever means they can use to drive us out will be used. We all know that we'll get fed up and leave so they just have to keep the pressure up.

[K. A. Pital]

Some say that now there's talk about a group of people executing the killing spree. Perhaps there's more to this story.

[Lost Soal]

Senator Lindsey Grahams response to the shooting;
"These Things Happen"

I'm sure that will play well. What next, you going to attack Obama for apologising for this?

[K. A. Pital]

Well, for that sort of Senator (the goal is to stuff Afghanistan with US and NATO military bases and 'stay after 2014') is it reasonable. If you pursue imperialist goals, indeed you have to push onward even if your forces massacre people during an imperialist war.

After all, the goals he set couldn't be more clear a demonstration of what sort of a person he is.