Rampage shooting in Santa Barbara by misogynist 22-yo.

[Crazedwraith]

It's in reference to the "America has decided the situation is fine" part - it's basically a passive-aggressive response to anyone arguing against all the various gun laws that get proposed/passed whenever these horrible events occur...

So would you agree that, even given that some specific gun laws are shite, it would be preferable to have gun control than let mass shootings continue to frequently happen?

[MKSheppard]

I followed with something along the same lines.

You basically went to "shroud waving" about the horrible tragedy two years ago, where you live, etc.

Today while at work in a really rich area (as in 1% rich) of my home county, some damn high school kids went out for a few hours past us as we were repairing a storm drain near their house.

When I say "1% rich", I mean "the teen girl has a goddamn BMW for a daily driver"

I bet you a coke that within about maybe a year or so, one of those idiots will have one too many to drink, or succumb to peer pressure late at night, and they'll flip that BMW and wipe out everyone inside it.

Like these guys in that area last year:

Link to 2015

Link to 2016

There will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth by everyone involved. Promises will be made that they'll never forget them...

...and then everyone forgets as the memorial tee shirts get spinwashed and faded into oblivion.

[Starglider]

Shep is correct to say that the motives of spree killing are not unthinkable or mysterious. They are generally quite simple, commonplace and often petty. Spree killers have usually experienced a drift in values and perceptions away from the norm to a sociopathic, sopolistic, fatalistic state, to a point that eventually overcomes their inhibitions against violence and fear of suicide and/or retribution. Other than that they are usually quite ordinary; although there is some disconnect from reality, the level of delusion is typically quite mild. This is in fact what makes it so easy for them to acquire weapons and generally strike without warning. "The motives of the killer can never be understood" is a defensive platitude that shies away from the mundanity of the typical perpetrator. Murder is unfortunately part of the human psychological range, and we have to deal with that; even mass murderers are not some strange inhuman creature posing as homo sapiens, they are a part of the behaviour spectrum that has been with us all through history.

[biostem]

It's in reference to the "America has decided the situation is fine" part - it's basically a passive-aggressive response to anyone arguing against all the various gun laws that get proposed/passed whenever these horrible events occur...

So would you agree that, even given that some specific gun laws are shite, it would be preferable to have gun control than let mass shootings continue to frequently happen?

No gun laws, short of turning things into a police state, will eliminate gun violence, so that's basically a non-starter. What you are proposing is a false dichotomy. The best solution, IMO, is a multi-pronged approach that incorporates logical gun laws,improvements to mental health services, better security awareness for institutions, and so on - just saying "no pistol grips or bayonet mounts" does not solve anything.

[MKSheppard]

Far more deaths are caused by pistols... why don't any of these gun laws focus on removing them

That reminds me. About a week ago, I was sitting in my work truck and I get a text from my dad telling me about a shooter at Montgomery Mall (where we sometimes go for lunch if we're nearby.

And it turns out to have been that Fed security guard who killed his wife the day before on the loose again.

So they catch him later that day, and the next day I'm reading the Washington Post's account of the event; and some things just aren't adding up. Like how the guy was under a protective order, blah blah, guns confiscated under it etc.

So it eventually turns out that he bought the gun in question while he was working at a Fed building in Arizona, and of course "Marylanders To Prevent Gun Violence" is all over this.

More details have come to light regarding how this domestic abuser was able to get his gun. Since the guns were purchased while the shooter lived in Nevada, Prince George's Police Department had no way of knowing about them. Our country's current patchwork of gun laws enables these tragedies and puts families and communities at risk.

So I point out that under the Firearms Safety Act of 2013 (big maryland gun control law passed after Newton by our shitbag ex governor Martin O Malley as an attempt to become POTUS material), that anyone entering Maryland with the intention of becoming a resident has to register their regulated weapons (handguns etc) with the Maryland State Police within 90 days -- I even quote the text in FSA 2013:

(A) (1) A PERSON WHO MOVES INTO THE STATE WITH THE INTENT OF BECOMING A RESIDENT SHALL REGISTER ALL REGULATED FIREARMS WITH THE SECRETARY WITHIN 90 DAYS AFTER ESTABLISHING RESIDENCY.

He was already breaking the law by not registering his Nevada purchased weapon

They of course blocked me and deleted my comment.

[Crazedwraith]

It's in reference to the "America has decided the situation is fine" part - it's basically a passive-aggressive response to anyone arguing against all the various gun laws that get proposed/passed whenever these horrible events occur...

So would you agree that, even given that some specific gun laws are shite, it would be preferable to have gun control than let mass shootings continue to frequently happen?

No gun laws, short of turning things into a police state, will eliminate gun violence, so that's basically a non-starter. What you are proposing is a false dichotomy. The best solution, IMO, is a multi-pronged approach that incorporates logical gun laws,improvements to mental health services, better security awareness for institutions, and so on - just saying "no pistol grips or bayonet mounts" does not solve anything.

I never made the claim they would 'eliminate' gun violence. And I already said I agreed the gun control laws such as the assault weapons stuff was stupid. (Not in so many words). How ever it is possible to imagine up laws that would at least reduce gun violence.

In fact, I agree with you. I have in the past argued against people making the false dichotomy between gun control and 'solving the route causes of gun crime'. You can and should have both.

[MKSheppard]

eliminate gun violence

"Gun Violence" in the State of Maryland is basically:

1.) About 300~ suicides a year with firearms. (561 suicides in 2013 -- about 55% of all suicides in Maryland are by firearm).

2.) About 280 murders a year with firearms (400~ murders annually on a 5 year average in 2013, of which 70% are with firearms per MD Stats -- https://www.goccp.maryland.gov/msac/doc ... nd_UCR.pdf).

Murder in Maryland breaks down to basically two counties accounting for 75% of MD Murders (Baltimore City and Prince George's).

[biostem]

eliminate gun violence

"Gun Violence" in the State of Maryland is basically:

1.) About 300~ suicides a year with firearms. (561 suicides in 2013 -- about 55% of all suicides in Maryland are by firearm).

2.) About 280 murders a year with firearms (400~ murders annually on a 5 year average in 2013, of which 70% are with firearms per MD Stats -- https://www.goccp.maryland.gov/msac/doc ... nd_UCR.pdf).

Murder in Maryland breaks down to basically two counties accounting for 75% of MD Murders (Baltimore City and Prince George's).

The one thing that I've had trouble finding is a reliable statistic that outlines how many gun crimes were committed by the legal owner of said firearm, vs those committed by someone who did not have a legal right to own that weapon.

[MKSheppard]

Unless otherwise exempt, as of October 1, 2013, a Maryland resident must possess a valid Handgun Qualification License before he/she may purchase, rent, or receive a handgun.

I'm sure all the people in Baltimore and PGC had their HQLs when they went and shot someone at 0300.

[madd0ct0r]

edit/ Never mind. Thread had moved on.

[MKSheppard]

Sure man, that's 100% what i said. Keep up the good fight.

In order to obtain a Handgun in Maryland since 2013, you have to:

Take a 4 hour minimum class (variable cost).

Pay a $50 fee to the Maryland State Police for the Handgun Qualification License.

Pay a $90 Fingerprinting fee to the Maryland State Police for being fingerprinted and you have to schedule a fingerprinting appointment -- I've done this for my job to hold certain licenses)

Wait 26 to 30 days to get your HQL (and be washed through like 20 different databases).

Then once you have your HQL, each time you want to buy a handgun, you have to pay a fee -- it varies from shop to shop -- one shop was $50; and it's non refundable; if you cancel your purchase or get denied by NICS/MSP.

Since we implemented all these measures over the last 20 or so years in steps, Baltimore is the safest place in Maryland.

[madd0ct0r]

yeah, I was replying to biostem from about an hour ago. forgot to refresh tab, hence my edit.

Is Baltimore actually the safest place in maryland, or is the barrier to diffusion so low it makes little difference?

[TimothyC]

Is Baltimore actually the safest place in maryland, or is the barrier to diffusion so low it makes little difference?

Baltimore is, with some very specific geographical exceptions, the least safe part of Maryland, to the degree that it gets referred to as 'Bodymore'.

[MKSheppard]

It's also where the documentary THE WIRE was filmed.

[Jub]

Is Baltimore actually the safest place in maryland, or is the barrier to diffusion so low it makes little difference?

Baltimore is, with some very specific geographical exceptions, the least safe part of Maryland, to the degree that it gets referred to as 'Bodymore'.

How much of that violence is gang on gang, versus spree killers and the like? I ask because for one type of crime gun laws rarely matter, but for the other they very well might.

I know in my city most of the violent crime is gang and/or drug related with few bystanders hurt in the process. The HA won't care about gun laws if they're already planning a hit but Joe Average probably does. It's also why I like nations where open/concealed carry outside of a range or hunting area isn't normal. It adds one more barrier, however minor, to the crime of passion or suicide.

[Zaune]

The problem is, unless every state in the Union both implements and enforces licensing restrictions, it's trivially easy to get around them by driving across a few state lines until you find somewhere you can at least semi-legally buy anything up to semi-automatic rifles wholesale with no questions asked. It's hard enough to stop arms obtained that way from crossing the border with Mexico, which has actual checkpoints; within the United States it's a lost cause.

[Joun_Lord]

Well the Mexico arms situation probably isn't helped by Bush, Obama, and Holdermygroin allowing 2,000 guns to walk across the border. See the ATF Fast and Furious gunwalking scandal.

Also nowhere can you easily find legal guns with no questions asked save people selling them illegally. Its not a failure of the system when shit like straw purchasers, greedy gun dealers selling to anyone, and outright illegal gun sells are involved. Anywhere in the US if you are buying in an official transaction there is atleast background checks and forms to fill out, questions. Nobody can just walk into a gun store, toss the money on the counter and walk out with a brand new 30mm assault clip assault weapon unless the seller is selling it illegally.

Plus its stupid someone can become a criminal just by crossing state lines.

[MKSheppard]

The problem is, unless every state in the Union both implements and enforces licensing restrictions, it's trivially easy to get around them by driving across a few state lines.

69% of all murders in Maryland are with handguns. 1% are with rifles. The rest are.... a grab bag of various things.

Why do I mention this?

Because since 1968, you haven't been able to buy handguns across state lines easily.

If you are from MD and want to buy a handgun in Pennsylvania on a trip there, it has to be shipped to a Maryland FFL where they'll do the various Maryland checks and registration.

Bought it face to face in a parking lot from Jimbo? You both committed a felony.

[Grumman]

If this shooting had happened a month later, I feel like we would have been comparing Elliot Rodger to the assholes who kill for ISIL. I'm sure there are some true believers in there too, but a self-made loser who thinks the world owes him a fuck-buddy and that not getting one justifies mass murder is just the kind of person ISIL is looking for.

[Broomstick]

And worse yet, after committing mass murder the likes of ISIL would actually give him not a fuck buddy but a sexual slave.... assuming he wasn't the suicide-bomber type.

[Purple]

And assuming he was we must remember that the recruiting call for those in fact includes 40 (IIRC) sexual slave virgins(!) no less.

[General Zod]

And worse yet, after committing mass murder the likes of ISIL would actually give him not a fuck buddy but a sexual slave.... assuming he wasn't the suicide-bomber type.

As a western-educated white male, he would make the perfect suicide bomber recruit. Word has it the typical suicide bomber is too stupid to operate the vests without blowing themselves up before reaching their targets.

[Flagg]

I followed with something along the same lines.

You basically went to "shroud waving" about the horrible tragedy two years ago, where you live, etc.

Today while at work in a really rich area (as in 1% rich) of my home county, some damn high school kids went out for a few hours past us as we were repairing a storm drain near their house.

When I say "1% rich", I mean "the teen girl has a goddamn BMW for a daily driver"

I bet you a coke that within about maybe a year or so, one of those idiots will have one too many to drink, or succumb to peer pressure late at night, and they'll flip that BMW and wipe out everyone inside it.

Like these guys in that area last year:

Link to 2015

Link to 2016

There will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth by everyone involved. Promises will be made that they'll never forget them...

...and then everyone forgets as the memorial tee shirts get spinwashed and faded into oblivion.

We put up permanent memorials where people are killed in drunk driving incidents. Do you have something more than your usual psychopathic drivel and posting of graphs not related to the situation to add? You going to ask if my dog eats black people in public or is that reserved for IM's?

[Joun_Lord]

As a western-educated white male, he would make the perfect suicide bomber recruit. Word has it the typical suicide bomber is too stupid to operate the vests without blowing themselves up before reaching their targets.

I think that just might be propaganda. While no doubt the suicide bombers are complete idiots, anybody wearing a suicide vest qualifies, the reason for remote detonations as far as I'm aware is incase the bomber tries to back out or gets cold feet.

You could of course just be making a joke.

[Simon_Jester]

eliminate gun violence

"Gun Violence" in the State of Maryland is basically:

1.) About 300~ suicides a year with firearms. (561 suicides in 2013 -- about 55% of all suicides in Maryland are by firearm).

2.) About 280 murders a year with firearms (400~ murders annually on a 5 year average in 2013, of which 70% are with firearms per MD Stats -- https://www.goccp.maryland.gov/msac/doc ... nd_UCR.pdf).

Murder in Maryland breaks down to basically two counties accounting for 75% of MD Murders (Baltimore City and Prince George's).

For that matter, the murder in Prince George's breaks down to the area inside or slightly outside the Washington, D.C. Beltway, which is socioeconomically an extension of the D.C. urban population itself. Drive five miles east from the Beltway and things are looking a lot better. Drive ten miles away and you're into the "negligible gun violence" territory again. And possibly in the middle of a farm.

So basically, the majority of gun violence (apart from suicides which really should not count) in Maryland comes from the specific parts of the state which are impoverished urban areas that have high crime rates. By and large, the rest of the state is either prosperous suburbs or semi-rural.

But that's commonplace everywhere in the country. It's not just Maryland. Most gun killings happen in cities and involve poor people killing each other, which is why urban voters tend to be anti-gun while rural voters tend to be pro-gun.