UK Armed Forces to be Shielded From Prosecution

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Crazedwraith
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UK Armed Forces to be Shielded From Prosecution

Post by Crazedwraith »

The BBC

Legal measures to protect UK troops from "spurious" claims of misconduct have been unveiled by the government.

The change in policy, announced at the Conservative conference, would mean parts of the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) could be suspended during future conflicts.

Defence Secretary Michael Fallon said the legal system had been abused "to falsely accuse our armed forces".

The MoD has spent more than £100m on Iraq-related claims since 2004.

Speaking at the Tory conference in Birmingham, Mr Fallon said: "This is not about putting our armed forces above the law, they wouldn't want that. They have to comply with the criminal law of this country and, of course, with the Geneva conventions.

"Serious claims must be investigated, but spurious claims will be stopped and our armed forces will now be able to do their job fighting the enemy and not the lawyers."

Two separate inquiries are currently examining about 2,000 allegations against troops who served in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Much of the litigation comes from claims under the ECHR, the government said.

The changes would mean that in future conflicts, subject to a vote of both Houses of Parliament, the UK would "derogate" from Article Two (right to life) and Article Five (right to liberty) of the ECHR.

Troops would still be subject to other articles of the convention, including a prohibition on torture, and the changes would not affect retrospective cases.

Two separate inquiries are currently examining about 2,000 allegations against troops who served in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Much of the litigation comes from claims under the ECHR, the government said.

The changes would mean that in future conflicts, subject to a vote of both Houses of Parliament, the UK would "derogate" from Article Two (right to life) and Article Five (right to liberty) of the ECHR.

Troops would still be subject to other articles of the convention, including a prohibition on torture, and the changes would not affect retrospective cases.

The planned crackdown has been criticised by Lt Col Nicholas Mercer, the former chief legal adviser for the Army in Iraq, who said it was wrong "simply to polarise it as money-grabbing lawyers".

"There are plenty of us who have raised our concerns without any financial motive at all, if indeed the other lawyers have got a financial motive," he said in January.

"The government have paid out £20m for 326 cases to date. Anyone who has fought the MoD knows that they don't pay out for nothing."

It was also recently revealed that an independent policing unit set up to investigate alleged war crimes by British troops in Afghanistan had received around 600 complaints.

The cases being probed are said to include that of a Taliban bombmaker who claims his arrest and detention was illegal.

The move was welcomed by Reg Keys, whose 20-year-old son Tom was killed while guarding a police station in Iraq in 2003.

He has been involved in a campaign against the legal cases, and said: "I would like to think that those already under threat of prosecution will be looked at again".

For Labour, shadow defence secretary Clive Lewis said: "Michael Fallon's speech was a smokescreen, designed to deflect from the Tories legacy of failure on defence.

"The reality is their devastating cuts since 2010 have weakened and demoralised our Armed Forces, leaving them poorly-equipped, over-stretched, under-paid and too often living in squalid conditions."
This story has already dropped from BBC's new page and I had to try to find it.

I find this to be despicable. You can't protect the troops from prosecution for doing things wrong. It will only encourage them not to care about the rules. You can't stop them from being prosecuted for fear of it being spurious or malicious. You have an investigation and you discard the spurious one's then. It rather err on them having to face vexatious accusations than on the side of guilty parties getting a free pass.
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Re: UK Armed Forces to be Shielded From Prosecution

Post by Zaune »

What I want to know is, how is this going to affect troops deployed within the UK giving "aid to the civil power"? Say another really big riot like London 2011 except the police get overwhelmed faster and can't bring in extra manpower from other Forces?
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Captain Seafort
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Re: UK Armed Forces to be Shielded From Prosecution

Post by Captain Seafort »

The fucking article wrote:Speaking at the Tory conference in Birmingham, Mr Fallon said: "This is not about putting our armed forces above the law, they wouldn't want that. They have to comply with the criminal law of this country and, of course, with the Geneva conventions.
:roll:
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Re: UK Armed Forces to be Shielded From Prosecution

Post by Crazedwraith »

Who are you aiming that :roll: at?

They do seem to have a lot of safe guards in place, which is good. But the fact remains that some of these prosecutions they want to shield the Armed Forces from are totally legitimate. So we'll have to see what exactly they try to stop under the auspices of this policy.
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Re: UK Armed Forces to be Shielded From Prosecution

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Crazedwraith wrote:Who are you aiming that :roll: at?
You and Zaune. You for suggesting that the aim of this is to protect those who break the rules and Zaune for implying that it might affect MACP. They're slapping down ambulance-chasers, nothing more.
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Re: UK Armed Forces to be Shielded From Prosecution

Post by madd0ct0r »

I'll see if I can find the transcript of the army legal advisor slamming this 'carefully orchestrated media campaign.' He notes that some of the 'spurious' cases are one's he or his colleagues brought.

I believe the current stats are 300 cases settled before court, 12 dismissed for lack of evidence.
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Crazedwraith
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Re: UK Armed Forces to be Shielded From Prosecution

Post by Crazedwraith »

Captain Seafort wrote:
Crazedwraith wrote:Who are you aiming that :roll: at?
You and Zaune. You for suggesting that the aim of this is to protect those who break the rules and Zaune for implying that it might affect MACP. They're slapping down ambulance-chasers, nothing more.

Then please address the rest of my post. Where's the guarantee it will only be used for Ambulance chasers? What's the definition of Ambulance chasers an how do we ensure we don't let genuine claims be dismissed as such?
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Re: UK Armed Forces to be Shielded From Prosecution

Post by madd0ct0r »

On phone but this is the bunny. Could someone quote it?http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 03281.html
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Re: UK Armed Forces to be Shielded From Prosecution

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Here we go...
The Independent wrote:
Lieutenant-Colonel Nicholas Mercer says it is 'beyond question' that British soldiers tortured Iraqis
Former senior military lawyer rejects assertion that ‘ambulance-chasers’ are bringing fraudulent claims against UK soldiers

Britain’s most senior military lawyer at the start of the Iraq War has condemned the Ministry of Defence (MoD) for attacking law firms representing Iraqi claimants – and claims British forces were guilty of unlawful killing and torture in some cases.

Lieutenant-Colonel Nicholas Mercer, the British Army’s chief legal adviser in Iraq in 2003, told The Independent: “These cases cannot be swept under the carpet or dismissed out of hand.

British soldiers 'face prosecution' over 55 Iraq War deaths
“This isn’t just about human rights lawyers, there were plenty of people within the military and the military legal community who raised their concerns as well, and are still doing so.”

The former army lawyer spoke out after The Independent revealed last week that British soldiers who served in Iraq could face prosecution for crimes such as murder.

The news has prompted a backlash, with former Army officers following the lead of Defence Secretary Michael Fallon in claiming that “ambulance-chasing” lawyers are responsible for bringing fraudulent claims.

But there remain serious questions to answer regarding the conduct of British forces during the Iraq war and subsequent occupation, Lt-Col Mercer insists.

To date, the MoD has paid out £19.6m in out-of-court settlements in 323 cases relating to the actions of British forces in Iraq.

“Why is the MoD settling these claims and paying out on so many and then at the same time maintaining that everyone behaves to the highest standard when clearly the settled civil claims suggest that they don’t?” he asked.

“This cannot be characterised as ambulance-chasing lawyers, there are plenty of lawyers who believe that the highest legal standards should apply to the way the state conducts itself, and it’s important that, not only is this the benchmark, but if we fall short then that’s properly addressed.”

Lt-Col Mercer, who now works as an assistant chaplain at a boy’s school in Dorset. reported prisoner abuse by British soldiers just weeks after the invasion. He claims to have witnessed prisoners hooded and kneeling on the ground next to an interrogation tent.

“Seeing prisoners in stress positions and hooded was serious, it was a shock. I’d never seen anything like it before. It was shocking and alarming,” he recalled.

His concerns were passed up to ministerial level in March 2003, according to Lt-Col Mercer. “They (politicians) knew there were allegations not only of hooding and stress positions but also mistreatment itself within the first month of the war.”

An official inquiry established that the death of Iraqi hotel receptionist Baha Mousa in September 2003 resulted, in part, from his detention by British troops, the former army lawyer pointed out.

Referring to five interrogation techniques – hooding, white noise, food and drink deprivation, painful stress positions, and sleep deprivation – banned by Britain in the 1970s, he said: “Did we torture people? Yes, that too is beyond question because we found out in the Baha Mousa inquiry that the five techniques were being employed against prisoners and there is legal jurisprudence to the effect that the five techniques amount to torture.”

The treatment Lt-Col Mercer endured from the MoD after blowing the whistle on prisoner abuse ultimately saw him leave the military in 2011. “My own headquarters staff were very supportive and decent. I felt my conflict was with the Ministry of Defence. It was a constant battle, there was constant hostility. It was awkward throughout, you felt you were being undermined. It was just constant attrition really,” he said.

Britain is a signatory to the Rome Statute, the treaty which established the International Criminal Court (ICC) in 1998, which means that the ICC can mount its own investigation if Britain fails to deal with allegations properly.

“Some of the techniques allegedly used in interrogation, if true, are quite unacceptable in a modern democracy. To physically threaten a captive, to sexually humiliate a captives (using female interrogators or pornography), or insult their religion (by defiling the Koran) is abhorrent,” Lt-Col Mercer said.

“In the past, if anything happened that was untoward, it was either covered up, like the Mau Mau, or buried till kingdom come. Now you’ve got the ICC sitting on your shoulder. Britain is used to conducting things as it wanted to conduct them, but it can’t any more,” he claimed.

“In my view, the Army may have been led up the garden path by the Ministry of Defence. If unlawful interrogation techniques were signed off by the MoD or rendition operations approved by them, then the Armed Forces will have found themselves involved in unlawful activity by default,” he said.

British soldiers 'could face prosecution for Iraq crimes'
“I also think there has been a moral ambivalence in the way we treat people. I think we got too close to our American colleagues, in respect to the way people are interrogated and the contempt for international legal norms and some of that has cross-pollinated to our own armed forces which I think is regrettable.”

As for the legality of the war itself, Lt-Col Mercer said: “We thought it was illegal... a lot of us were very uneasy about it but we decided, because we were in a legal bind, that our job was not to determine the laws of war, that was for the state to determine.

“Our job was to apply the laws in war. That’s how we justified it in our own minds but there were deep-seated reservations from a lot of members of headquarters staff about the legality of the war when there was no Security Council resolution.”

Profile: Nicholas Mercer

Nicholas Mercer was educated at Uppingham School in Leicestershire and St Andrew’s University, and qualified as a solicitor in 1990.

He joined the Army’s legal branch in 1991 and served for 20 years, rising to the rank of Lieutenant Colonel, completing tours in Northern Ireland, Bosnia, Cyprus and Germany. Lt-Col Mercer was the Army’s top legal officer in Iraq in the first half of 2003, during which time he raised concerns with the chain of command about the abuse of prisoners by British forces.

He resigned from the military in 2011 and was named 2011/12 Human Rights Lawyer of the Year by Liberty. The 53-year-old is now a clergyman in Dorset, where he lives with his wife and three children.
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Re: UK Armed Forces to be Shielded From Prosecution

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Crazedwraith wrote:Where's the guarantee it will only be used for Ambulance chasers?
British law and the Geneva conventions, as stated in the bit I quoted initially.
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Re: UK Armed Forces to be Shielded From Prosecution

Post by Crazedwraith »

Captain Seafort wrote:
Crazedwraith wrote:Where's the guarantee it will only be used for Ambulance chasers?
British law and the Geneva conventions, as stated in the bit I quoted initially.
That's not an answer. Situations are not certain and easily definable. You can't tell if it's illegal in British Laws and the Geneva conventions or spurious without the investigations and trials they want to stop. Even if they everyone is acting entirely in good faith.
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Re: UK Armed Forces to be Shielded From Prosecution

Post by Lord Pounder »

There is also the long standing matter of The Troubles. It's well established that British forces acted criminally regarding Bloody Sunday in Derry and there are many allegations that British Armed Forces colluded with Loyalist terrorists.
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Re: UK Armed Forces to be Shielded From Prosecution

Post by madd0ct0r »

Ahh, but they were insurgents, not enemy combatants and so Geneva dosen't apply...
Oh, wait, we're talking about Afgahnistan? I'm sure that's totally different :)
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