The photos America doesn't want seen

theski · Post by **theski** » 2006-02-14 02:02pm

Any Aussies gonna catch this...??

MORE photographs have been leaked of Iraqi citizens tortured by US soldiers at the notorious Abu Ghraib prison on the outskirts of Baghdad.

Tonight the SBS Dateline program plans to broadcast about 60 previously unpublished photographs that the US Government has been fighting to keep secret in a court case with the American Civil Liberties Union.

Although a US judge last year granted the union access to the photographs following a freedom-of-information request, the US Administration has appealed against the decision on the grounds their release would fuel anti-American sentiment.

Some of the photos are similar to those published in 2004, others are different. They include photographs of six corpses, although the circumstances of their deaths are not clear. There are also pictures of what appear to be burns and wounds from shotgun pellets.

The executive producer of Dateline, Mike Carey, said he was showing the pictures leaked to his program because it was important people understood what had happened at Abu Ghraib.

Seven US guards were jailed following publication of the first batch of Abu Ghraib photographs in April 2004.

Mr Carey said he could not explain why the photographs had not yet been published, as he thought it was likely that some journalists had them.

"It think it's strange, maybe they think its more of the same."

ABU

theski · Post by **theski** » 2006-02-15 02:44pm

Kicking this.. cause a firestorm is brewing...

Ubiquitous · Post by **Ubiquitous** » 2006-02-15 03:11pm

Pictures I saw on the news were shocking, and they said that they chose not to show the majority of them because they were worse!

Don't expect this to change anything from the American pov. Everyone else just becomes +1 more pissed with America. Now, if only they would have allowed these pictures to have been released years ago instead of trying to supress them. Typical arrogance from the American government, and it has come back to bite them.

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2006-02-15 03:48pm

But didn't you know that no one needs to see these anyway? After all, what happened at Abu Graib is no worse than fraternity hazing rituals!

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2006-02-15 04:21pm

personally as an american, I welcome any sanctions, and embargos against my nation. this is just sick. not exactly like it would go through since we have perminate veto power though....

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-02-15 05:39pm

I don't know what it means by "tonight". It's Feb 16 now. I probably missed it. Damn.

Metatwaddle · Post by **Metatwaddle** » 2006-02-15 06:32pm

I've seen the photos and frankly I think they are more of the same. I'm not quite sure why these were covered up and the others weren't. Somehow I'm not sure we're getting the full story.

FSTargetDrone · Post by **FSTargetDrone** » 2006-02-16 05:04pm

Well, Salon.com has a shitload of photos and videos of this mess up now.

thejester · Post by **thejester** » 2006-02-16 05:12pm

Discombobulated wrote:I've seen the photos and frankly I think they are more of the same. I'm not quite sure why these were covered up and the others weren't. Somehow I'm not sure we're getting the full story.

I thought the ones show the wounds from being repeatedly shot with non-lethal rounds had taken it to another level - as Flagg said, it can hardly be said that this was torture in name only.

Metatwaddle · Post by **Metatwaddle** » 2006-02-16 08:45pm

thejester wrote:
Discombobulated wrote:I've seen the photos and frankly I think they are more of the same. I'm not quite sure why these were covered up and the others weren't. Somehow I'm not sure we're getting the full story.
I thought the ones show the wounds from being repeatedly shot with non-lethal rounds had taken it to another level - as Flagg said, it can hardly be said that this was torture in name only.

Yeah, that was the one exception. I should have mentioned that in my previous post. But I never really considered it to be torture in name only; that was never really a question for me. I still didn't think that most of the pictures were any worse than the previous Abu Ghraib pictures.

On a side note, I'm somewhat horrified to read this post and realize how desensitized to these sorts of things I've become.

LongVin · Post by **LongVin** » 2006-02-16 08:51pm

Those soldiers are stupid. They shouldn't of taken pictures or shown them to anyone to begin with.

Dillon · Post by **Dillon** » 2006-02-16 08:52pm

Although a US judge last year granted the union access to the photographs following a freedom-of-information request, the US Administration has appealed against the decision on the grounds their release would fuel anti-American sentiment.

What's the story with that? I guess if I ever end up as a defendant in an American court, I can appeal the decision because it might give people a negative opinion of me. Yay!

FSTargetDrone · Post by **FSTargetDrone** » 2006-02-16 10:31pm

LongVin wrote:Those soldiers are stupid. They shouldn't of taken pictures or shown them to anyone to begin with.

I have no doubt some or most of the people who took the pictures did so for purely selfish reasons, but I would like to hope that there were a few people who took the pictures soley to help get the word out about this savagery.

Metatwaddle · Post by **Metatwaddle** » 2006-02-16 10:36pm

LongVin wrote:Those soldiers are stupid. They shouldn't of taken pictures or shown them to anyone to begin with.

Those soldiers are assholes. They shouldn't of [sic] tortured people to begin with.

I guess I'm not quite as desensitized as I thought. After all, I'm not the one who sees pictures about torture and thinks, "Why didn't they just keep the torture a secret?"

Post by **Surlethe** » 2006-02-16 10:36pm

LongVin wrote:Those soldiers are stupid. They shouldn't of taken pictures or shown them to anyone to begin with.

They shouldn't have tortured to begin with.

wolveraptor · Post by **wolveraptor** » 2006-02-16 10:39pm

Anyone have an idea as to the motives behind this behavior?

LongVin · Post by **LongVin** » 2006-02-16 10:47pm

To be fair the Iraqis might of deserved the beatings.

FSTargetDrone · Post by **FSTargetDrone** » 2006-02-16 11:05pm

Clearly all of those "tortured" Iraqis suffered self-inflicted wounds. They either walked into walls, purposely sodomized themselves, made the dogs very angry, or hoods (that happend to be there, for entirely legitimate reasons) fell on their heads while they were "exercising" by doing stepping exercises on crates as they simultaneously grapsed wires for some reason.

Post by **Edi** » 2006-02-17 02:40am

LongVin wrote:To be fair the Iraqis might of deserved the beatings.

Are you just trolling here? Even the US military justice system that usually protects American soldiers from the consequences of their crimes has seen fit to send several soldiers to jail for terms ranging from three to ten years for abuse of prisoners, so you're basing this bullshit assertion on what exactly?

Edi

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2006-02-17 02:50am

Edi wrote:
LongVin wrote:To be fair the Iraqis might of deserved the beatings.
Are you just trolling here? Even the US military justice system that usually protects American soldiers from the consequences of their crimes has seen fit to send several soldiers to jail for terms ranging from three to ten years for abuse of prisoners, so you're basing this bullshit assertion on what exactly?

Edi

yes and except for Karpinski no one in the officer caste has been disciplined.... Especially not the general who came from camp x ray and ordered the MPs to illegally treat all detainees as "lower then dogs"

Post by **Edi** » 2006-02-17 03:13am

Can't expect too much from the system after all, YB. My views on the actual quality of the US military system are no secret and they are not very flattering. It's a bad joke atbest.

Edi

mr friendly guy · Post by **mr friendly guy** » 2006-02-17 06:24am

LongVin wrote:To be fair the Iraqis might of deserved the beatings.

To be fair put evidence to support your assertion or shut the fuck up.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2006-02-17 06:43am

LongVin wrote:To be fair the Iraqis might of deserved the beatings.

Good point why worry about a some prison guards getting their kicks treating other human beings as toys, to be tormented for their amusement, when those being tortured and humiliated 'might' have done something wrong

LongVin · Post by **LongVin** » 2006-02-17 01:12pm

Edi wrote:
LongVin wrote:To be fair the Iraqis might of deserved the beatings.
Are you just trolling here? Even the US military justice system that usually protects American soldiers from the consequences of their crimes has seen fit to send several soldiers to jail for terms ranging from three to ten years for abuse of prisoners, so you're basing this bullshit assertion on what exactly?

Edi

In a war situation you have to expect that a certain number of those captured will be beaten or otherwise treaten badly.

These terrorists have been shooting at Americans, using road side bombs and going all out to kill as many Americans as possible. The soldiers are going to want revenge and a few prisoners are going to get beatings in the process.

For all we know the terrorists who were tortured could of been trouble makers in the prison and were acting against American troops during their detainment and the guards were responding to that.

Not to mention the complete lack of civility that the terrorists show to the people they capture since the beginning of the war. The treament of prisoners is a two way street when one side starts abusing prisoners the other side will retaliate in kind.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2006-02-17 01:24pm

LongVin wrote:The treament of prisoners is a two way street when one side starts abusing prisoners the other side will retaliate in kind.

Not when one side claims to be a 'civilized nation' yet insists that the other side are ruthless, reprehensible terrorists.
You see, 'civilized nations' have these things called 'laws'. I'm not sure if you're familiar with the concept but essentially it means that there's some things you can't do, even to prisoners. Among them, I'm afraid, is torture (or detaining them without trial for years). Because, you see, that's what the 'civilized' in civilized nation stands for. And guess what: those laws were broken. Rather repeatedly it seems.
I won't even bother to deal with that apologist 'maybe they deserved it' bullshit.