A Spartan vs an unarmoured Space marine (40k)

[The Grim Squeaker]

Could a Halo Spartan in Full MJOLNIR armour (Newest version, assume The master chief as of Halo 2 for simplicitys sake) beat a Warhammer 40,000 Space marine (Ultramarine chapter, also to avoid any knife head butt arguments) without any armour?


The Spartan is faster than the marine by a tiny measure, and with the armour is probably stronger, but the marine has far more experience and can soak more damage without blinking (Arms being ripped off, etc...) and still has a good deal of inner armour due to the black carapace.

Scenario 1: Both are unarmed and start 15 meters from each other.
Scenario 2: Both start with an unbreakable knife made of normal metal.
Scenario 3: One starts with a Chainsword and the other with a Working Chainsword, depending on who has the upper hand in the previous scenarios (With the loser haveing the working Chainsword and the knowledge of how to wield it)

[Noble Ire]

but the marine has far more experience

How is it that being raised for combat from birth and actively fighting in a war that has lasted for about thirty years doesn't count?

and can soak more damage without blinking (Arms being ripped off, etc...)

IIRC, a Spartan took a Hunter fuel rod blast that blew off his arm and was still standing after it.

[Noble Ire]

Edit: From birth should be from childhood. So sue me.

[Akhlut]

but the marine has far more experience

How is it that being raised for combat from birth and actively fighting in a war that has lasted for about thirty years doesn't count?

I imagine it would count, but it depends on the SM in question. If he's relatively "fresh" and just out of scouting, he might be roughly equivilent to the Spartan in combat experience. If it's a sergeant or other officer, he could have centuries of battle experience under his belt.

There's also the matter that, if the codex is correct about the average marine's day, then most Marines get about 16 hours of combat training or combat-related training (tactics, strategy, getting to know the enemy better, etc.) a day. I'm not sure how that compares to the Spartans, though.

[The Grim Squeaker]

I imagine it would count, but it depends on the SM in question. If he's relatively "fresh" and just out of scouting, he might be roughly equivilent to the Spartan in combat experience. If it's a sergeant or other officer, he could have centuries of battle experience under his belt.

There's also the matter that, if the codex is correct about the average marine's day, then most Marines get about 16 hours of combat training or combat-related training (tactics, strategy, getting to know the enemy better, etc.) a day. I'm not sure how that compares to the Spartans, though.

I thought a Marine spent all but 15 minutes per day training (With a about 3-4 hours praying) .
Are'nt space marine scouts given a few years of combat experience before being made into full space marines? (In nastier conditions, most candidates aretested as children from/on Deathworlds, one test is sropping a candidate stark naked on a deathworld unless I'm mistaken).
Frankly unless it's a marine straight out of the fortress then he should have at the very least half a decade or so of combat experience .

For the purpose of the thread the marine is one with a rough century of experience (a typical green marine [compared to a sergeant at least])

[Raxmei]

[
I thought a Marine spent all but 15 minutes per day training (With a about 3-4 hours praying) .

You forgot about sleep. Overusing the catalepsian node to go without sleep causes undesireable side effects. Meals and equipment maintenence probably cut into this time too.

[Akhlut]

[
I thought a Marine spent all but 15 minutes per day training (With a about 3-4 hours praying) .

You forgot about sleep. Overusing the catalepsian node to go without sleep causes undesireable side effects. Meals and equipment maintenence probably cut into this time too.

Yeah, they have 4 hours of sleep a night, 2 meals a day (one 15 minutes, the other a half hour), 15 minutes of free time (which is usually discouraged, but, since Gulliman included it, most chapters include it but "ask" the marines to think about the magnitude of their service to the Emperor or something), and the rest is prayer. So, about 3 hours a day is prayer, if I'm not mistaken.

[18-Till-I-Die]

Wait this isnt fair, the Spartan has full power armor, with SHIELDS that protect against physical attacks (see Flood infection forms bursting on him in the game).

The Marine cant win if he cant even touch the guy without being killed.

Shouldnt they be both in armor?

[speaker-to-trolls]

Wait this isnt fair, the Spartan has full power armor, with SHIELDS that protect against physical attacks (see Flood infection forms bursting on him in the game).

The Marine cant win if he cant even touch the guy without being killed.

Shouldnt they be both in armor?

I think it's already been established that an armoured space marine>>an armoured Spartan. And a Space Marine is a great deal stronger than a flood infection organism.
Spartan probably still takes it.

[The Grim Squeaker]

Wait this isnt fair, the Spartan has full power armor, with SHIELDS that protect against physical attacks (see Flood infection forms bursting on him in the game).

Don't Flood infection vessels pop from the least amount of impact (They pop when close to another popper), I thought that the shield merely worked as a barrier, the Brute in "First strike" was choking the MC after pounding him without any trouble, if the shield was capable of damage instead of a mere barrier, it's rgeneration would have cut the Brute's arm off

[Noble Ire]

Wait this isnt fair, the Spartan has full power armor, with SHIELDS that protect against physical attacks (see Flood infection forms bursting on him in the game).

Don't Flood infection vessels pop from the least amount of impact (They pop when close to another popper), I thought that the shield merely worked as a barrier, the Brute in "First strike" was choking the MC after pounding him without any trouble, if the shield was capable of damage instead of a mere barrier, it's rgeneration would have cut the Brute's arm off

You're right, the shield just acts as a barrier, raised a few milimeters from his armor. Case in point, he grabs the wounded marine at the ending of PoA and throws him into the escape pod with no I'll effect, and holds up the dead marine just before the Flood appear.

[Icehawk]

Obviously a full armor SM would kill Master Chief, but I would think he could equal a Marine Scout assuming equal weaponry and could probably win against an unarmored marine.

[The Grim Squeaker]

Obviously a full armor SM would kill Master Chief, but I would think he could equal a Marine Scout assuming equal weaponry

Just how much weaker is scout marine armour, and how many implants do they lack? I don't think standard Halo weaponry could penetrate marien armour (Save multiple rockets or a point blank Brute shot or Hunter blast)

[Manus Celer Dei]

The Spartan is faster than the marine by a tiny measure, and with the armour is probably stronger, but the marine has far more experience

Do the marines fight without their armour on occaisions? I was under the impression that they virutally never took it off.

[The Grim Squeaker]

The Spartan is faster than the marine by a tiny measure, and with the armour is probably stronger, but the marine has far more experience

Do the marines fight without their armour on occaisions? I was under the impression that they virutally never took it off.

They don't take it off usually but they can (I have a short story in front of me where a marine takes his off to crawl through a sewer to track down a cult of cannibals "What price victory")

[Icehawk]

Obviously a full armor SM would kill Master Chief, but I would think he could equal a Marine Scout assuming equal weaponry

Just how much weaker is scout marine armour, and how many implants do they lack? I don't think standard Halo weaponry could penetrate marien armour (Save multiple rockets or a point blank Brute shot or Hunter blast)

In game a normal space marine armor save is 3+ on a D6 a scout is 4+ The actual scout armor is much lighter looking than a normal marine. Most IIRC only have torso and shoulder armor plates but their arms and legs are fully exposed and they only where light helmets with their faces fully exposed.

[Elheru Aran]

Scout marine armour is ordinary carapace armour, IIRC; as Scouts don't have the Black Carapace yet, they cannot interface with power armour.

[SAMAS]

Enough Master Chief!

How about Nicole vs. a Howling Banshee?

[SirNitram]

Enough Master Chief!

How about Nicole vs. a Howling Banshee?

Enhanced hearing + sonic scream = Owwwwwww.

[Falkenhayn]

In game a normal space marine armor save is 3+ on a D6 a scout is 4+ The actual scout armor is much lighter looking than a normal marine. Most IIRC only have torso and shoulder armor plates but their arms and legs are fully exposed and they only where light helmets with their faces fully exposed.

Well, according to WD 311, pgs 84-87, Scout torso protection is made from the same grade of materials as conventional power armor, their fatigues are a "carbon/titanium" composite weave, "capable of turning the most powerful of small arms fire".

In terms of implants, they don't have the black carapace, as their armor is not powered, though Sisters get around this somehow. Since their armor isn't powered, they cannot wear a full suit (per the article).

[Kojiro]

Scouts do have the black carapace, but it takes considerable time (I believe Space Marine says something in the order of a year, and makes quite the note of the added protection in grants the scouts on their first mission) for it fully mesh with thier bodies before the holes can be punched in it and the PA plugs connected. As a side note I found a WD article that lists the implants, calling the final implant 'Interface' and descrbing it as 'a stiff membrane' covering the marines torso (but otherwise finctioning as the carapace).

As far as fighting the MC goes, scouts don't wear helmets and that's gonna cost them in a fist fight. Also their armour plates may be made of the same material but they're lacking the strength enhancement of full PA which is an obvious benefit to hand to hand.

[StimNeuro]

Scouts do have the black carapace, but it takes considerable time (I believe Space Marine says something in the order of a year, and makes quite the note of the added protection in grants the scouts on their first mission) for it fully mesh with thier bodies before the holes can be punched in it and the PA plugs connected. As a side note I found a WD article that lists the implants, calling the final implant 'Interface' and descrbing it as 'a stiff membrane' covering the marines torso (but otherwise finctioning as the carapace).

As far as fighting the MC goes, scouts don't wear helmets and that's gonna cost them in a fist fight. Also their armour plates may be made of the same material but they're lacking the strength enhancement of full PA which is an obvious benefit to hand to hand.

Not sure how much strength loss they are suffering from, however. Scouts are, in game at least, rated as the same Strength and Toughness as a standard Marine, which is still higher than that of an Ork.

[Spetulhu]

Scouts do have the black carapace, but it takes considerable time (I believe Space Marine says something in the order of a year, and makes quite the note of the added protection in grants the scouts on their first mission) for it fully mesh with thier bodies before the holes can be punched in it and the PA plugs connected.

Implant 19: Black Carapace 16-18 years Final implant.

Marine candidates are no older than 18 when the black carapace is added to their bodies. Scouts lacking power armor has to do with the need for stealth while scouting. Veteran Scout Sergeants go without too.

Waiting a year for the carapace to harden is no time at all. Travel is slow compared to SW, and life expectancy is high if you're one of the elite. Or should I say maximum life expectancy? IIRC Commander Dante of the Blood Angels is over a thousand years old.

Sisters PA is based on the model the Marines have, but they can't use all the fluffy finery on it.

And in order to get back on topic: My money is on the Marine.

1/2: He should know how to deal with PA even if he's unarmed. He might lose fisticuffs, but at least he knows what to try. The knife is probably all the edge he needs (pun intended).

3: A weapon is still a weapon, and an armed Marine is going to kill people.