Which is the most dangerous Chaos God in WH40K?

[Guardsman Bass]

I've only read two novels in the WH40k-verse, and from that I got the impression that Tzeentch was the most dangerous of the Warp Gods to humanity. Am I wrong? Do the followers of, say, Khorne (or either Nurgle or Slaanesh), create more devastation when they launch their assaults?

[weemadando]

Tzeentch. Subtlety, deception and overwhelming power beat overwhelming force.

[Imperial Overlord]

Tzeentch.

[Falkenhayn]

Khorne. Tzeentch's most careful schemes can be thwarted by Nurgle's random wanton destruction, hence why they are opposed. Khorne is already the oldest and most powerful of the pantheon, and his power waxes the quickest given Black Crusades, Waaagghs! and the perpetual warfare that is 40k.

He is the easiest (children can hate before they can lust, so he trumps Slaanesh by a hair) and most immediately rewarding god to follow, and his followers are simple minded and numerous.

[Dark Hellion]

Khorne is simply the easiest god for humans to relate to. He represents one of the most base emotions and his age and power are too great.
After Khorn is Tzeentch, then Slaanesh, then Nurgle. Nurgle, while at times powerful beyond belief is self-defeating and thus in last place.

[Tasoth]

Going to say its up between Khorne and Tzeentch. Utter destruction against every back stab, lie, mystic power and what not.

[18-Till-I-Die]

Khorne.

Hate, i asure you, existed long, LONG before lies, lust and bad hygene.

Khorne is fed by every aspect of hate and ill will, so sometimes i'd imagine even some of the other God's forces might feed him a little, and when the war drums sound (which is an hourly thing in WH40K) it might fuck up one of Tzeentch's elaborate plans or kill off Slannesh's or Nurgle's followers but Khorne could care less.

He doesnt care where the blood comes from, as long as the blood flows freely. His own followers' blood will do just fine.

[Ford Prefect]

It is Tzeentch. I asure you that. He's the one who brought half of the Space Marine Legions into the Chaos fold. Tzeentch is the biggest threat to man, but it isn't readily apparent.

Khorne offers a more obvious threat, and while simple hate is common, simple hate is just that, simple. Khorne gets more of his power from lots of bloodshed, easy to perpetuate. But will bloodshed tip the balance against the Imperium? I don't think so.

Tzeentch is more dangerous, but you don't know it yet.

[white_rabbit]

See the sig, whatever any of the others do, it empowers Khorne...

[Ford Prefect]

When the shooting starts, it does. Khorne is the most powerful. Does he offer more of a threat than the others? no.

The only truly successful wars that have been caused by Chaos are the ones lead by Chaos Undivided. Look at Angron and Armagedon. Did that bother the Imperium much? Not really.

Chaos Undivided is the best threat to the Imperium.

And when it comes down to it, who's going to get the Gods together? Tzeentch.

[Imperial Overlord]

Tzeentch. The Architect of Fate can twist his defeats to serve his own purpose and your victories into his own. Khorne is the most formidable on the battlefield, but that is the only arena where he can defeat you. With Tzeentch, it is the tip of the iceberg.

[Lord Zentei]

Tzeentch.

Age matters not in the realm of Chaos. Khorne has greater power, but that is an incomplete measure of the threat he represents, since Tzeentch uses his power far more efficiently and in more subtle and - more importantly - in more undetectable ways. The numbers of Khorne's followers matter not as their actions and movements are often manipulated bt Tzeentch. Though Nurgle has foiled Tzeentch's plans previously, Tzeentch engineers his defeats into victories as already stated: his plans often appear contrary to his own interests at first glance. He is the one that can infiltrate imperial organizations - including the fucking Inquisition - most ealily. It was Tzeentch that engineered the Traitor Legions' fall from grace, as already stated. All alliances of the Chaos gods are engineered by Tzeentch, and he never engineers such alliances unless they serve his own interests the most in the long run.

If you measure "threat" in terms of pure millitary might, Khorne wins the day, of course. But after you have only just checked his legions, your best friend will slip a poisoned dagger into your back. Finish the sentance: "it's not how much you got..."

PS: this should be a poll thread.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

"A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords at dawn." - Tactica Imperium

[Guardsman Bass]

Wasn't Tzeentch the reason why humanity suddenly picked up psychic powers(or at least a fraction of them)?

Sorry about the Poll thing. I guess it's too late now.

[Falkenhayn]

Khorne has an unlimited power base. Every war, every hateful killing, whatever piece of violence that ends in death adds a skull to the skull throne of Khorne. He dosen't have to raise a finger or spend a second thinking about it to generate more power.

Whatever. Anybody here want to break out the Law of Logical Parsimony?

[SirNitram]

I'm gonna break from the Big Four and name Gork and Mork. Say whatever you want about the Eldar. Blabber on about increasing Psykker births in Humans. Chant the name of the Greater Good. But none of them are so basely powerful that they make axes cleave through armour by believing it is so.

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!

[Petrosjko]

I'm gonna break from the Big Four and name Gork and Mork. Say whatever you want about the Eldar. Blabber on about increasing Psykker births in Humans. Chant the name of the Greater Good. But none of them are so basely powerful that they make axes cleave through armour by believing it is so.

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!

There is also the fact that Gork and Mork cannot be destroyed, with their base of followers.

(Unless the Necron pull off their severing the warp stunt,- call me in five million years when they actually get off their asses and do that.)

Still, gotta go Tzeetnch. What's scary and annoying about the big T is that no matter what is done to unravel his schemes, the opposition can never be sure if they're just playing right into his hands by setting things into motion for a larger scheme decades, centuries, or even millennia down the road.

[Kuja]

Tzeentch. Tzeentch is the kind of strategist who will calmly plan a thousand deliberate defeats in order to perfectly set up the crucial victory that suddenly swings the scales back his way. He's easily the most frightening of the Chaos gods because of this. When fighting Khorne, Slaanesh, and Nurgle, victories are victories and defeats are defeats. Only with Tzeentch do the victors nervously bite their fingernails and hope that they have not played into his hands. As the late Night Stalker once said "Kill a hundred men and they will hunt for you. Kill a thousand and they will queue to face you. But kill one and they will fear their shadows. Kill a dozen and they will cry out at dangers imagined." Tzeentch is a master plotter and backstabber, hence his title of the Great Betrayer.

Khornates are childishly simple to fight. Shoot them as they charge you with their screams of "Blood for the Blood God!" and they will fall. Slaaneshi are more dangerous in their subtlty and sensuality, but once discovered they generally collapse in the face of naked force. Nurgleites can be routed with simple sanitary measures and quarantines, though thier diseases typically cause much havoc before they are contained. But against Tzeentch as his followers, swift reaction is not enough. One must carefully plan ahead, anticipating every possible outcome of a proscribed action, else one might find themselves doing more to further a plot than the heretics to hunt.

However, to anticipate heretics, one must think like them, and that is another danger in fighting the Changer of Ways. Tzeentch's subtle and masterful warpcraft has corrupted more Inquisitors than any of the other three Chaos Gods. While commoners might give themselves to bloodlust or sensuality, it is the powerful, and those who persue power, that fall to the Change God, and that in itself makes Tzeentch more dangerous than the others. While the others amuse themselves with pawns and knights, Tzeentch is the one toppling the kings and queens.

Which leads to the next point. While the other gods seem interested in only corruption and destruction, or chaos for chaos' sake, Tzeentch is the one focused on a true master plan, and his machinations do always come back to forwarding that plan; deliberate chaos, if you will. Tzeentch is wily and ambitious, and that makes him deadly. Even his greatest servants and lieutenants are meaningless; they are only a means to an end, and that end is a universe of Tzeentch's own making, a true universe of unending change and chaos. That is why Tzeentch is the most dangerous of the Chaos Gods. He is a master strategist, playing a vast game of chess against the entire universe.

And he is winning.

[Kojiro]

Slannesh.

None of the other three brough down the mighty eldar. Slannesh is insidious, it doesn't just kill, or manipulate, it owns (and I don't mean that in any pop culture way). When any of the other three subjugate a planet they leave their mark but Slannesh leaves a cult. New worshipper, new warriors, new power. A Bloodletter or Plaguebearer cannot convert you to it's master's cause, but a demonette can. And Tzeentch's 'cause' is so obscure most mortals couldn't aid it if they wanted to. Slannesh's ability to recruit so easily makes it the biggest threat.

Think about it...a soul is turned to Khorne on a planet, what does he do by himslef? Organise a street gang and be extremely violent is about the limit of it. To Nurgle? Well people start dropping dead until he is discovered and purged. Nurgle just doesn't blend well. And Tzeentch? He'll likely never be noticed, he's also likely never achieve anything unless he's there for 'the moment' Tzeentch may have planned for in any number of lifetimes. Fact is Tzeentch worshippers are scrubs in his plan. Sublte by it's nature isn't strong and if there's anything we've learned it's that any plan can go wrong, especially with bloodcrazed psychos and random mass plagues popping up. But Slannesh...a soul turns to Slannesh and you have a cult forming. A cult that can seduce it's way into power, can seduce the power structure itself and even the Inquisitor or fleet sent to stop it.

Slannesh is the youngest and fastest growing of all the gods. Granted it's been a long time since I read any 40K fiction and things may have changed as they are want to do when a new writer gets in charge but that's the way I remember it.

And hi.

[Star-Blighter]

Khorne.

Hate, i asure you, existed long, LONG before lies, lust and bad hygene.

Khorne is fed by every aspect of hate and ill will, so sometimes i'd imagine even some of the other God's forces might feed him a little, and when the war drums sound (which is an hourly thing in WH40K) it might fuck up one of Tzeentch's elaborate plans or kill off Slannesh's or Nurgle's followers but Khorne could care less.

He doesnt care where the blood comes from, as long as the blood flows freely. His own followers' blood will do just fine.

Question: My understanding (very limited) of baser human emotions leads me to believe that the lust is the strongest overall drive in people as it serves to perpetuate our species. However, hate and lust are rather closely matched in that they tend to conflict with rational thought and serve to stimulate the older, more primal centers of the brain.

I can agree with you on account of Khorne being older then the other Warp Gods by a fare margine, which would make him stronger.

No, I'm not one of the Emperer's Children.

*See's 40ker's look at him funny*

It was just an opinion.

*See's 40ker's grabing chain axes. Can hear the sound of chanting*

40ker's: "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!"

*runs away like a little girl*

[The Grim Squeaker]

The gods “roles” and specialties are Roughly:

Raw power, moral, followers: Khorne
Fluctuating flow (utter defeat or victory): Nurgle.
Subvertion, Eldar: Slannesh.

Palpatine level scheming: Tzeentech

(hope i got that right)

[NecronLord]

Palpatine level scheming: Tzeentech

That's an insult to Tzeentech. Palpatine's schemes were so successful because he was surrounded by idiots, not because he was smart.

[The Grim Squeaker]

And the Machine cult\Space marines are innovative, open minded geniuses?

Sorry, I meant planning in terms of scale and 12.5 steps ahead planning.

(in Tzeentech’s case 10.5 millenium (just before the Necrons return), of course that may be the final step in his plan to destroy the star child

[Lancer]

The AdMech were at one point.

The Space Marines are pretty innovative compared to the rest of humanity. Of course, they have centuries of experience to draw upon, as well as a good deal of freedom compared to other IoM agencies.

[The Grim Squeaker]

What are the admech? never heard of them before.

Also i thought that Space marines were the pinnacle of unchanging, you cant tell the difference between millenia old and decade old marines.
(except that ones being watched for heresy due to some heretical nonsense involving “ally’s” with foul Xeno’s).

[sorry about my flamish questions, i just want to learn for future reference)