Should we form an Imperial Strike Force?

Shadow WarChief · Post by **Shadow WarChief** » 2002-07-23 12:24am

For those of you who visit Space Battles, you may or may not know that I was once directed in the direction of some typical trekkies. The result of this encounter was I formed "The Imperial Strike Force™"...a grand army of the repub....er Empire to invade the trekkie hell hole (Section31.com)

Well since Mike is wary of debating trekkies en masse (rightfully so), why don't we take matters into our own hands and form our own Imperial Strike Force™. Just as Trekkies swear revenge and vow to bring in re-enforcements, we'll actually bring in re-enforcements and debate the trekkies into the ground.

What say you?

DarkStar · Post by **DarkStar** » 2002-07-23 12:29am

It is absolutely perfect. It confirms my belief that warsies think all they have to do to win is yell the loudest and be the most obnoxious.

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2002-07-23 12:33am

We've seen Trekkies do it with incrediable results, even when they're wrong. Since we're right, what could possibly go wrong.

BTW, did you ever figure out WHY ISD's could not venture into fluidic space?

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2002-07-23 12:35am

I will love to be a part of it just for kicks! Hopefully we can make some of them cry!

Mr. B · Post by **Mr. B** » 2002-07-23 12:38am

I'll bring the beer and blasters!!!!!!!

Shadow WarChief · Post by **Shadow WarChief** » 2002-07-23 12:40am

DarkStar wrote:It is absolutely perfect. It confirms my belief that warsies think all they have to do to win is yell the loudest and be the most obnoxious.

So your saying that all Warsies are idiots who think that yelling the loudest and being the most obnoxious will win a debate....based on your minimal observations of lil ol' me[/i]

There's a hasty generalization if ever there was one...

And since when do you consider having help in a debate against people who spew "Turbolasers are primitive lasers" arguments etc... "yelling and being obnoxious. Heaven forbid that I actually want some trekkies to actually stop and think instead of just trying to logical fallcy someone out of existance...

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2002-07-23 12:41am

Originally posted by Mr. B
I'll bring the beer and blasters!!!!!!!

Will pretzels be supplied? Or if you prefer I can bring those!

DarkStar · Post by **DarkStar** » 2002-07-23 12:46am

DG_Cal_Wright wrote:We've seen Trekkies do it with incrediable results

WHEN did that happen?

BTW, did you ever figure out WHY ISD's could not venture into fluidic space?

Huh? I've never discussed fluidic space with you.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2002-07-23 12:48am

Originally posted by DarkStar
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by DG_Cal_Wright:
We've seen Trekkies do it with incrediable results
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WHEN did that happen?

I believe that if you follow the link to section31 you will see the evidence for yourself!

DarkStar · Post by **DarkStar** » 2002-07-23 12:48am

Shadow WarChief wrote: So your saying that all Warsies are idiots who think that yelling the loudest and being the most obnoxious will win a debate....based on your minimal observations of lil ol' me[/i]

I see you misunderstand me. There are pro-Wars debaters, Warsies, and Rabid Warsies. I don't know which you are, but judging by your invasion request, I'd imagine you're at least a Warsie.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-07-23 12:50am

DarkStar wrote:It is absolutely perfect. It confirms my belief that warsies think all they have to do to win is yell the loudest and be the most obnoxious.

That's not what we're saying, dumbass. The point is that it would allow everyone to be able to nullify the problems that we have when we argue on SB.com. When I went there to make a post, last time, I found myself under attack from multiple directions at once. None of their points were valid, but I could not answer to thirteen simultaneous rebuttles. I could answer the two or three most relevent ones, but after I started getting ten or fifteen people to attack each one of my posts, I simply could not keep up with the influx. They then interpreted my silence as an inability to answer their points, and claimed victories by default. If we went over to SB.com in mass, we would be able to operate more effectively and avoid these "numbers down" situations. The point here is not to yell louder, the point is to prevent the Trekkies from yelling louder while we talk smarter.

DarkStar · Post by **DarkStar** » 2002-07-23 12:51am

Crown wrote:
I believe that if you follow the link to section31 you will see the evidence for yourself!

Um, dude, that is a Star Trek site to begin with. That would be like the U.S. invading and conquering Wyoming.

DarkStar · Post by **DarkStar** » 2002-07-23 12:53am

Master of Ossus wrote: When I went there to make a post, last time, I found myself under attack from multiple directions at once. None of their points were valid, but I could not answer to thirteen simultaneous rebuttles. I could answer the two or three most relevent ones, but after I started getting ten or fifteen people to attack each one of my posts, I simply could not keep up with the influx.

Now you know how pro-Trek debaters feel here, or at ASVS. At least if you're getting swamped at SpaceBattles (as I do), it suggests a rough numerical parity.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2002-07-23 12:55am

Originally posted by DarkStar
Um, dude, that is a Star Trek site to begin with. That would be like the U.S. invading and conquering Wyoming.

Well thank-you very much for pointing out that it was a Star Trek site

!

However if you actually go to the page and read it you will see that anyone who makes a valid point in Star Wars favour, as it has a Vs forum, is shouted down. Which I believe was DG_Cal_Wright's original point

.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-07-23 01:06am

DarkStar wrote:
Master of Ossus wrote: When I went there to make a post, last time, I found myself under attack from multiple directions at once. None of their points were valid, but I could not answer to thirteen simultaneous rebuttles. I could answer the two or three most relevent ones, but after I started getting ten or fifteen people to attack each one of my posts, I simply could not keep up with the influx.
Now you know how pro-Trek debaters feel here, or at ASVS. At least if you're getting swamped at SpaceBattles (as I do), it suggests a rough numerical parity.

There is a difference, DarkStar. The difference is that at SB.com, almost all of the points that Trekkies brought up were either irrelevent, easily disproven, or both. The fact that I could not answer every attack was not because I had no evidence that it was true, but because I could not read and then type up responses to every one of them. Here, most of the points that the serious debaters bring up are relevent to the discussion, and it is very difficult for them to be disproven. In a way, here it is possible to win debates with points. At SB.com, your silence is taken to mean either a concession or a forfeit. No one here makes weak posts and then interprets silence on their points to mean that you have lost. What's more, we give you plenty of time to respond. One person posted a flame against me, and then posted "I'll take it that he has no answer for this b/c he hasn't responded, yet," less than two MINUTES after he had posted the first message. I was, meanwhile, unaware that that was happening because I was replying to another post. By the time I had a chance to go back and read what had happened, again, three other people had also claimed victories because I had not answered their points, even though all of their points were easily refuted.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2002-07-23 01:10am

Originally posted by Master of Ossus
There is a difference, DarkStar. The difference is that at SB.com, almost all of the points that Trekkies brought up were either irrelevent, easily disproven, or both. The fact that I could not answer every attack was not because I had no evidence that it was true, but because I could not read and then type up responses to every one of them. Here, most of the points that the serious debaters bring up are relevent to the discussion, and it is very difficult for them to be disproven. In a way, here it is possible to win debates with points. At SB.com, your silence is taken to mean either a concession or a forfeit. No one here makes weak posts and then interprets silence on their points to mean that you have lost. What's more, we give you plenty of time to respond. One person posted a flame against me, and then posted "I'll take it that he has no answer for this b/c he hasn't responded, yet," less than two MINUTES after he had posted the first message. I was, meanwhile, unaware that that was happening because I was replying to another post. By the time I had a chance to go back and read what had happened, again, three other people had also claimed victories because I had not answered their points, even though all of their points were easily refuted.

Can we hurry up and start invading now? I have to go to work in one hour, and I wont be back for 7 after that, but if you guys wanna have fun there don't leave me out of it!

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2002-07-23 01:11am

I won't debate, but I'll visit for laughs and supply the pretzels. Go on!

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2002-07-23 01:43am

I'll be a reserve. I'll sit back an enjoy the show(I'm not/yet a good debator, fall for fallacies, will let my opponent lead the debate and not know it, Also I haven't watched ST that much. I've seen only the Picard movies, haven't seen a single episode of TNG in almost 2 years, didn't see voyager past Scorpion part 2 except for end game, started watching DS9 around the time worf joined), and if a valid point is being left out by the strikeforce I'll blast in and be out.

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-07-23 11:55am

As a loyal member of the Imperial navy, of course I will join the strike force.
If you need someone like me.

Smalleyjedi · Post by **Smalleyjedi** » 2002-07-23 12:23pm

I dont know how much use i will be...but i will join. I will not post anything rabid warsieish as some people like to call it. If i have something important, i will say it. If not, i will insult stupid people who make assumptions on little or no hard data.

Romulan_nemesis · Post by **Romulan_nemesis** » 2002-07-23 01:25pm

I'm a trekkie. I rarely visit Section31.com, although I just did and I signed up for a contest because of your message

.

I'm going to have to stay neutral in this matter. I'm a fan of both series, and even though I love Star Trek more and I might regret this in the future, I'm going to stay neutral.

Aside from, I'm a Doctor, not an invader!

Rommie

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-07-23 01:40pm

I'm in.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-07-23 02:07pm

I suppose I should say something here ...

Invading a Trek BBS full of completely irrational people is like invading a creationist website and trying to explain logic and the scientific method to them. It's pointless. You will never have any impact upon their quasi-religious rapture.

Section31.com, the Trekkies on spacebattles.com, etc. have repeatedly demonstrated an astounding lack of logical debating skills. They debate in a clearly fallacious fashion, and anyone who knows how to think rationally will discover this almost immediately upon visiting, just as he would upon stumbling into a creationist website. There is nothing you can do to help these people; they have sold their brains to Paramount.

This board and ASVS are both heavily dominated by pro-SW forces. Some, like Darkstar, believe that we appear to be dominant only because of population. Others, like myself, point out we are sticklers for proper debate method here, and such an environment will inevitably gravitate toward the logical conclusion (which is not what the die-hard Trekkies want). It is not a coincidence that Trekkies habitually employ logical fallacies; they have to, because the logic does not lead to the conclusion they want. If they try to be logical, then they can (at best) hope to slightly whittle down the sheer magnitude of the Empire's crushing victory in some areas, which is not enough to satisfy most of them.

The general level of debate maintained by the sb.com Trekkies is so low that you can immediately tell when someone who actually has a clue wanders in and starts posting (I remind you that the Trekkies at sb.com gathered round "Gothmog" as their hero, and predicted that he would beat me in a debate).

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-07-23 02:09pm

Having said that, perhaps the most entertainment value might be had by taking their best debaters and systematically pointing out all of the leaps in logic and other fallacies they routinely employ. It won't sway them (it will go right over their heads), but sideline-sitters on their board might be prompted to recognize that something's wrong.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-07-23 02:14pm

Hmm two boards at once?

Prehaps not but I am avaible (PM here) if any of the Strike Force needs my Witt and Charm on a specfic subject