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I've been wondering what the borg use for a sublight drive. I don't recall ever seeing any impulse engines on their vessels.

They might be many small ones spread throughout the structure for redundancy.

StarshipTitanic wrote:They might be many small ones spread throughout the structure for redundancy.

Kind of like the Death Stars sublight drives?

I believe the DS' engines were all in the equitorial trench, but about the same idea.

They could just use their warp drive.

Major Diarrhia wrote:They could just use their warp drive.

Uh, how?

StarshipTitanic wrote:

Major Diarrhia wrote:They could just use their warp drive.

Uh, how?

In one of the early Star Trek movies, Kirk uses the warp drive to get the Enterprise up to speed in a couple of seconds. In First Contact, the Pheonix accelerates at 100km/s^2 (?) using the warp engines (Its rocket fuel had been expended, I'll have to watch that scene over, it's been a while). Both show warp drives can be used for suplight propulsion. For that matter I think impulse engines are just weak fusion powered warp engines.

Major Diarrhia wrote:Both show warp drives can be used for suplight propulsion. For that matter I think impulse engines are just weak fusion powered warp engines.

As for the movies, I haven't watched many, so I can't say... but for the impulse engines, not so. Impulse engines are fusion powered, IIRC; the warp engines use the matter/antimatter reaction (lots of technobabble). The two are very different.

As for the Borg ships, I'm with Titanic-- lots of small engines spread through the structure. However, I seem to recall that the cubes always travelled with one specific corner forwards-- perhaps the impulse engines are primarily in the opposite corner's length, or spread along only two faces along with the warp engines (or whatever they use to achieve warp)?

As for the movies, I haven't watched many, so I can't say... but for the impulse engines, not so. Impulse engines are fusion powered, IIRC; the warp engines use the matter/antimatter reaction (lots of technobabble). The two are very different.

The Phoenix was most likely fusion powered but yet was able to reach warp speeds.

Elheru Aran wrote:As for the movies, I haven't watched many, so I can't say... but for the impulse engines, not so. Impulse engines are fusion powered, IIRC; the warp engines use the matter/antimatter reaction (lots of technobabble). The two are very different.

That's a straw man or somethig. Doesn't matter what powers them, both systems create high power plasma. AM/M reaction will just create more powerfull plasma. Which means, you won't achive FTL speeds with fusion power, but it will let you save your anti-matter for when you really need like, like FTL travel and combat. You see, impulse engines for a long time have been way off center. If they were thrust based there is no way they could propell a vessell. Then there is "Full stop" and loosing all forward momentum instantly, without turning around. Also the insane accelerations displayed. Not to mention full impulse being the speed of light and that occasion when the E-D went faster than light at impulse. The problem here is that no ship in Star Trek or anywhere can possibly carry the reaction mass to get near the speed of light.

Elheru Aran wrote:As for the Borg ships, I'm with Titanic-- lots of small engines spread through the structure. However, I seem to recall that the cubes always travelled with one specific corner forwards-- perhaps the impulse engines are primarily in the opposite corner's length, or spread along only two faces along with the warp engines (or whatever they use to achieve warp)?

If Borg engines create thrust and are spread through out the entire structure, then facing two faces backward would allow twice the engines to be faced backward. That's of course if they can vector their thrust 45 degrees. They'll use lots of small engines either way I think.

evilcat4000 wrote: The Phoenix was most likely fusion powered but yet was able to reach warp speeds.

I thought so too for a while untill I notice a certain scene. When Data is first scanning the Phoenix, he picks up a certain form of radiation that is specific to anti-matter. I'll get the quote and particle info later.

Major Diarrhia wrote:

Elheru Aran wrote:As for the movies, I haven't watched many, so I can't say... but for the impulse engines, not so. Impulse engines are fusion powered, IIRC; the warp engines use the matter/antimatter reaction (lots of technobabble). The two are very different.

That's a straw man or somethig. Doesn't matter what powers them, both systems create high power plasma. AM/M reaction will just create more powerfull plasma. Which means, you won't achive FTL speeds with fusion power, but it will let you save your anti-matter for when you really need like, like FTL travel and combat. You see, impulse engines for a long time have been way off center. If they were thrust based there is no way they could propell a vessell. Then there is "Full stop" and loosing all forward momentum instantly, without turning around. Also the insane accelerations displayed. Not to mention full impulse being the speed of light and that occasion when the E-D went faster than light at impulse. The problem here is that no ship in Star Trek or anywhere can possibly carry the reaction mass to get near the speed of light.

if you're going to call someone on a fallacy make sure you know what the fallacy actually is. also be sure to double check your information before babbling off technical specs.

StarTrek.Com wrote:Aboard Federation starships, fusion reactors power the engines using deuterium fuel to create helium plasma. Overload of an impulse engine on the damaged U.S.S Constellation, a Constitution-class starship, was once rated at 97.835 megatons.

the main website shows that impulse engines do not use the antimatter reactors for their feul, though they still use plasma for propulsion.

Darth_Zod wrote:
if you're going to call someone on a fallacy make sure you know what the fallacy actually is. also be sure to double check your information before babbling off technical specs.

All I'm saying is that it is a misconception that an anti-matter power source is intrinsicaly linked to making the warp drive work. The difference between that of fusion and AM/M is that of only magnitude. Other power sources have been used, mainly quantum singularity. As well "impulse power". In the first TOS episode with the Romulans, Scotty states that they only have impulse power, yet they are definatly moving faster than light and their weapon is FTL. And those specs I stated are to show the unusual qualities of Star Trek slower than light propulsion. Qualities not possesed by a reaction drive that faces one direction and is off the center of mass.

Darth_Zod wrote:

StarTrek.Com wrote:Aboard Federation starships, fusion reactors power the engines using deuterium fuel to create helium plasma. Overload of an impulse engine on the damaged U.S.S Constellation, a Constitution-class starship, was once rated at 97.835 megatons.

the main website shows that impulse engines do not use the antimatter reactors for their feul, though they still use plasma for propulsion.

I neve said that impulse engines do use an AM/M reaction. I'm saying that you don't need an AM/M reaction to use warp drive at sublight speeds and that the only way Star Trek ships could ever have enough reaction mass to achieve the acceleration and velocity that they achive is through a low level warp drive.

I was under the impression that the pre-D7 Romulan ships were able to achieve a low warp speed with fusion power plants.

So if no fusion process at all is capable of propelling ships faster than light, how could the Romulans possibly have fought any interstellar war?

Of course M/AM has nothing to do with warp drive, intrinsically. The Phoenix was powered by a fission reactor.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Of course M/AM has nothing to do with warp drive, intrinsically. The Phoenix was powered by a fission reactor.

actually the phoenix was powered by warp drive.

StarTrek.Com wrote:Zefram Cochrane and Lily Sloane built this prototype spaceship from an old nuclear missile. The Phoenix was the first craft launched from Earth to travel faster than the speed of light, utilizing warp drive technology. It's 2063 voyage was responsible for Earth's first contact with extraterrestrials.

That refers to its FTL drive, not its power generator.

Darth_Zod wrote:actually the phoenix was powered by warp drive.

That's like saying a car is powered by wheels. Not so, it is powered by a gasoline engine.

I wonder where Robert W. , our Borg expert is. This here is really something for him..........

Tribun wrote:I wonder where Robert W. , our Borg expert is. This here is really something for him..........

Kinda glanced at this thread. Haven't seen much to respond to. Perhaps I'll simply address the OP quick to maintain my reputation.

Cpl Kendall wrote:I've been wondering what the borg use for a sublight drive. I don't recall ever seeing any impulse engines on their vessels.

No warp nacelles either, but they do use warp. This simply fits into their decentralized and redundant design concepts. You can remove a Borg transwarp coil from a sphere (powerful enough to utilize on an entire Federation starship) and it can still go into transwarp. It would appear that virtually all their systems have multiple redundant backups.

Frankly, the design of Borg vessels is a bonus. Unlike Federation vessels, you have no visual attributes by which to determine vulnerabilities. No bridge, no nacelles, no engineering section, etc.

Just another reason why the Borg kick ass.

I would venture a guess that warp engines do all the work on borg ships.

InnocentBystander wrote:I would venture a guess that warp engines do all the work on borg ships.

Why would warp engines be required for simple impulse?

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Of course M/AM has nothing to do with warp drive, intrinsically. The Phoenix was powered by a fission reactor.

I believe it was a fusion reactor. Fission reactors are not small enough or powerful enough for warp drives.

Maybe for a short hop fission would work, if only by charging some sort of fast-discharge capacitor bank?

evilcat4000 wrote:I believe it was a fusion reactor. Fission reactors are not small enough or powerful enough for warp drives.

They used the material of a nuclear missile to fuel their warp drive. We don't know if it's fission or fusion. Neither we know how much energy they needed for their short warp trip.