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Okay, post your pick for the best Space Superiority Fighter in Trek, or alternately, the best existing platform for such a fighter.

It would help if we had some kind of list. The only ones I know of are the fighters seen in the "Sacrifice of Angels" which were largely cannon fodder. I don't know anything about the Delta Flyer.

There are the runabouts, of course. And shuttles. But both don't count as fighters, and only marginally count as an alternative.

What capabilities does the Delta Flyer have?

What capabilities does the Tactical Fighter have?

Trek has fighters?

Rogue 9 wrote:Trek has fighters?

They're a fairly recent invention in the DS9-VOY timeline, but I'm not sure how effective they were.

I'm not realy sure here.

Tac Fighters are not dogfighters, they are strike fighters, more akin of TIE Bombers or Y-Wings then dogfighters.

The Venture class Scout in ST9 may be more akin to an interceptor, dito the Delta Flyer.

I don't think Fighters are realy a major thing in Trek simply because they lack the punch to realy take it to the capital ships and they get blasted out of the sky quite easily if they try.

The Dominion Attack ship is technicaly a heavy fighter. In terms of effectiveness it outclasses any Federation fighter including the Delta Flyer.

evilcat4000 wrote:The Dominion Attack ship is technicaly a heavy fighter. In terms of effectiveness it outclasses any Federation fighter including the Delta Flyer.

Uh no. Its *technicaly* a Corvette or Frigate. Its NAMED a fighter by the Dominion and its the name thats stuck. Its rather clearly NOT a Fighter, its frigen nearly 200 meters long!

How big were the Maquis Raiders?

The Venture and the Delta Flyer are the best canadites for fighters. They have multiple beam phaser arrays allowing for more accurate fire against enemy craft of similar size. The Peregrine Tactical Fighter is merely a strike fighter. The small Maquis Raider is at best a heavily armed counterpart to the Runabout while the Runabout is just a long range shuttle.

Darth Fanboy wrote:How big were the Maquis Raiders?

They varied a great deal in sizes from Chakotays 40m Raider to two man TNG era Maqui Raiders.

The ship Chakotay had was impressive. It was able to tackle a Cardassian Galor for sometime and even escape from it relatively undamaged.

Alyeska wrote:The Venture and the Delta Flyer are the best canadites for fighters. They have multiple beam phaser arrays allowing for more accurate fire against enemy craft of similar size. The Peregrine Tactical Fighter is merely a strike fighter. The small Maquis Raider is at best a heavily armed counterpart to the Runabout while the Runabout is just a long range shuttle.

The Venture has photon torpedoes giving her a higher firepower than the Delta Flyer. However her shields are no better than a shuttecraft and the same goes for phasers given how she performed in "Insurrection". Against the Delta Flyer the Venture would lose but against larger ships she would be more effective due her photon torpedoes.

evilcat4000 wrote:

Alyeska wrote:The Venture and the Delta Flyer are the best canadites for fighters. They have multiple beam phaser arrays allowing for more accurate fire against enemy craft of similar size. The Peregrine Tactical Fighter is merely a strike fighter. The small Maquis Raider is at best a heavily armed counterpart to the Runabout while the Runabout is just a long range shuttle.

The Venture has photon torpedoes giving her a higher firepower than the Delta Flyer. However her shields are no better than a shuttecraft and the same goes for phasers given how she performed in "Insurrection". Against the Delta Flyer the Venture would lose but against larger ships she would be more effective due her photon torpedoes.

Delta Flyer does have photons. I remember she fired an aft monuted torp to attract a dark-matter nebula away from the flyer. (twas that episode with the srewups). She also has thoose borg "photonic missles" but we don't know how much firepower they pack.

evilcat4000 wrote:

Alyeska wrote:The Venture and the Delta Flyer are the best canadites for fighters. They have multiple beam phaser arrays allowing for more accurate fire against enemy craft of similar size. The Peregrine Tactical Fighter is merely a strike fighter. The small Maquis Raider is at best a heavily armed counterpart to the Runabout while the Runabout is just a long range shuttle.

The Venture has photon torpedoes giving her a higher firepower than the Delta Flyer. However her shields are no better than a shuttecraft and the same goes for phasers given how she performed in "Insurrection". Against the Delta Flyer the Venture would lose but against larger ships she would be more effective due her photon torpedoes.

The Venture at best has a handful of torpedoes. There is litteraly not all that much room in the thing. And where do you get the bit on it having worse shields then the Delta Flyer? Furthermore where did you come up with the idea of pitting the Venture against the Delta Flyer? Typicaly you use fighters to shoot down enemy strike fighters.

evilcat4000 wrote:The ship Chakotay had was impressive. It was able to tackle a Cardassian Galor for sometime and even escape from it relatively undamaged.

It was heavily damaged in the engagement, the only thing that saved Chakotay and his crew was the convenient location of the badlands. To say that his ship escaped with relatively minor damage isn't totally accurate.

Though it did pull through for them. It's a shame his ship had to die due to plot contrivance, it would have been nice to see what sort of stunts they could get up to with 2 ships with different strengths and weaknesses, with 2 different captains commanding them. It would have preserved the Starfleet vs. Maquis feel of the show far longer in my opinion.

Wasn't the same class of Maquis ship used by Eddington? I seem to recall him commanding one, and kicking the shit out of the Defiant (which he disabled via a computer virus he placed months earlier, when he was in the position to be trusted). It showed enough firepower to punch through the Defiant's armour in a pretty short amount of time.

Stofsk wrote:Wasn't the same class of Maquis ship used by Eddington? I seem to recall him commanding one, and kicking the shit out of the Defiant (which he disabled via a computer virus he placed months earlier, when he was in the position to be trusted). It showed enough firepower to punch through the Defiant's armour in a pretty short amount of time.

I believe Edington was using the smaller raider, the same one that Ro used when she defected.

Also, re: the Venture's performance -- it caused the Son'a flagship quite a bit of grief all by itself. A small strike group of 3-5 Ventures could conceivably at least cripple such a ship, if we were to go by reactions alone. (Since there aren't any hard specs on the things, that's all we've got is the Son'a reactions and the FX sparkle-and-dance routine.)

Raoul Duke, Jr. wrote:Also, re: the Venture's performance -- it caused the Son'a flagship quite a bit of grief all by itself. A small strike group of 3-5 Ventures could conceivably at least cripple such a ship, if we were to go by reactions alone. (Since there aren't any hard specs on the things, that's all we've got is the Son'a reactions and the FX sparkle-and-dance routine.)

IIRC, Data was shooting 'insert technobabble here' into the Son'a's shields to destablized them. This was only a concern because of the radiation thingy and the weapons fire itself really wasn't a threat to the ship. IIRC.

Anyway, OT. There really isn't a need for fighters in the ST universe. None of the smaller scale shuttle sized weapons are a threat to the larger craft and shuttle on shuttle as shown in the shows isn't that effective either and even then it is a prolonged experience. Shuttle sized weapons aren't up to the task against shuttle sized shields.

I don't recall any episode where a shuttle vaped a shuttle with a couple blasts or a couple, couple blasts. If it takes eight or nine passes with your fighter to scrap a strike fighter or bomber or another fighter, your fighter is worthless.

Knife wrote:IIRC, Data was shooting 'insert technobabble here' into the Son'a's shields to destablized them. This was only a concern because of the radiation thingy and the weapons fire itself really wasn't a threat to the ship. IIRC.

That was from the Captains Yacht much latter in the movie.

Anyway, OT. There really isn't a need for fighters in the ST universe. None of the smaller scale shuttle sized weapons are a threat to the larger craft and shuttle on shuttle as shown in the shows isn't that effective either and even then it is a prolonged experience. Shuttle sized weapons aren't up to the task against shuttle sized shields.

I don't recall any episode where a shuttle vaped a shuttle with a couple blasts or a couple, couple blasts. If it takes eight or nine passes with your fighter to scrap a strike fighter or bomber or another fighter, your fighter is worthless.

Actualy the Federation Tactical Fighters are very deadly in their mission of strike. A flight of four can strafe a Galor with micro torpedoes and cripple the ship. For the Federations enemies fighters would be a very important part of their force. The reason is that traditionaly the Federation has the best beam weapon accuracy. Enemies of the Federation can't hope to take down Tactical Fighters quickly enough with just their capitalship beams. They need a superiority fighter to do the job. However, Starfleet has an advantage in the Tactical Fighters because they are a recently deployment and it caught their enemies by surprise.

Alyeska wrote: Actualy the Federation Tactical Fighters are very deadly in their mission of strike. A flight of four can strafe a Galor with micro torpedoes and cripple the ship. For the Federations enemies fighters would be a very important part of their force. The reason is that traditionaly the Federation has the best beam weapon accuracy. Enemies of the Federation can't hope to take down Tactical Fighters quickly enough with just their capitalship beams. They need a superiority fighter to do the job. However, Starfleet has an advantage in the Tactical Fighters because they are a recently deployment and it caught their enemies by surprise.

What the hell is your source on that? I don't remember any tac fighters taking out a cap ship in any of the DS9 episodes. I remember a couple of ships blowing with tac fighters zipping around as other cap ships concentrate fire on them but.....

Knife wrote:

Alyeska wrote: Actualy the Federation Tactical Fighters are very deadly in their mission of strike. A flight of four can strafe a Galor with micro torpedoes and cripple the ship. For the Federations enemies fighters would be a very important part of their force. The reason is that traditionaly the Federation has the best beam weapon accuracy. Enemies of the Federation can't hope to take down Tactical Fighters quickly enough with just their capitalship beams. They need a superiority fighter to do the job. However, Starfleet has an advantage in the Tactical Fighters because they are a recently deployment and it caught their enemies by surprise.

What the hell is your source on that? I don't remember any tac fighters taking out a cap ship in any of the DS9 episodes. I remember a couple of ships blowing with tac fighters zipping around as other cap ships concentrate fire on them but.....

Watch Sacrafice Angles. Sisko uses Tac-Fighter squadrons to soften up and irritate Cardassian formations. In one particular shot a flight of four Tac-Fighters decimate a single Galor with a micro torpedo straffing run.

Alyeska wrote: Watch Sacrafice Angles. Sisko uses Tac-Fighter squadrons to soften up and irritate Cardassian formations. In one particular shot a flight of four Tac-Fighters decimate a single Galor with a micro torpedo straffing run.

I'll have to keep an eye out for a rerun on that. The tac fighters decimate a Galor?

Even is so, are you sure about the mircro PT's? I've been considering my post earlier and was thinking that if a strike fighter or assualt craft could carry a load (two or so) or capship sized PT's, then it could serve a purpose in that a squadron or so could represent a threat to a capship.

edited once to fix quote tags

The Venture at best has a handful of torpedoes. There is litteraly not all that much room in the thing. And where do you get the bit on it having worse shields then the Delta Flyer? Furthermore where did you come up with the idea of pitting the Venture against the Delta Flyer? Typicaly you use fighters to shoot down enemy strike fighters.

The Venture performed poorly against standard shuttlecraft which have weak phasers. That would indicate weaker shields than the Delta Flyer.

The thread is about the best Star Trek fighter. You mentioned the Venture as one of the best candidates for this title. So it is natural we would have to consider how well she would do against the Delta Flyer.

Actualy the Federation Tactical Fighters are very deadly in their mission of strike. A flight of four can strafe a Galor with micro torpedoes and cripple the ship. For the Federations enemies fighters would be a very important part of their force. The reason is that traditionaly the Federation has the best beam weapon accuracy. Enemies of the Federation can't hope to take down Tactical Fighters quickly enough with just their capitalship beams. They need a superiority fighter to do the job. However, Starfleet has an advantage in the Tactical Fighters because they are a recently deployment and it caught their enemies by surprise.

That would make Federation Tactical fighters torpedo bombers since they are making torpedo runs on capital ships. Since no other major power invovled in the Dominion war deployed a true fighter their performence against other fighters is just guess work.

Chris OFarrell wrote:

evilcat4000 wrote:The Dominion Attack ship is technicaly a heavy fighter. In terms of effectiveness it outclasses any Federation fighter including the Delta Flyer.

Uh no. Its *technicaly* a Corvette or Frigate. Its NAMED a fighter by the Dominion and its the name thats stuck. Its rather clearly NOT a Fighter, its frigen nearly 200 meters long!

Where'd you get that figure from? Jemmie bugs are only supposed to be 68 metres long.

They are actualy 125m long IIRC.