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I have always came to the conclusion that Luke and Leia are equal in force potential and if both of them were fully trained they would have been able to woop Vader and the Emperor. Am I off? I mean Obi Wan told Luke in RotJ that if Vader were to have ANY offspring that they would be a threat. Assuming that and the fact that they are twins, wouldn't I be correct?

Another question, Imagine in Leia was sent to Tatooine and Luke was sent to Alderaan. How the hell would that work out?

Luke and Leia are probably not equal in Force potential, but they are both strong enough to be trained as Jedi. Also, yes, Leia was also a threat to Vader and the Emperor. I do not know why Luke was the one selected to go to Tatooine, but it may have been because Vader knew about him and not about Leia (so Leia could hide in the open). I am not sure I can answer the other part of your question.

I feel that perhaps Luke was stronger in overall force potential. Perhaps the reason why he went back to Tatoine was because Yoda and Obi concluded that he was the most powerful of the two, a quick check of midichlorian count could do that (perhaps the very reason the device was included in the prequels was to explain this decision.) OR maybe Bail wanted to have a daughter and as such, he was given Leia and Obi feeling responsible for Anakin's fall, takes Luke with him to Tatooine.

I feel that there HAS to be a scene with Luke or both infants on Dagobah, perhaps that is where Padme actually gives birth. It would explain Luke's throw away line in ESB "Something about this place seems awful famaliar."

Even the EU sort of supports the view that Luke is more powerful, afterall he learned to be a Jedi in a matter of a few weeks on Dagobah yet Leia has been traning for years and hasn't seemed to advance much more than a padawan.

Stravo wrote:I feel that perhaps Luke was stronger in overall force potential. Perhaps the reason why he went back to Tatoine was because Yoda and Obi concluded that he was the most powerful of the two, a quick check of midichlorian count could do that (perhaps the very reason the device was included in the prequels was to explain this decision.) OR maybe Bail wanted to have a daughter and as such, he was given Leia and Obi feeling responsible for Anakin's fall, takes Luke with him to Tatooine.

I feel that there HAS to be a scene with Luke or both infants on Dagobah, perhaps that is where Padme actually gives birth. It would explain Luke's throw away line in ESB "Something about this place seems awful famaliar."

Even the EU sort of supports the view that Luke is more powerful, afterall he learned to be a Jedi in a matter of a few weeks on Dagobah yet Leia has been traning for years and hasn't seemed to advance much more than a padawan.

But Luke Has a HUGE advantage, plus he trained a lot longer than a couple of weeks, Between ESB and ROTJ is two whole years when he was training. Plus Leia spend very little time in comparison to Luke.

THEHOOLIGANJEDI wrote: But Luke Has a HUGE advantage, plus he trained a lot longer than a couple of weeks, Between ESB and ROTJ is two whole years when he was training. Plus Leia spend very little time in comparison to Luke.

You may be correct, HooliganJedi. I really don't know, but you are shifting the burden of proof. You are asking Stravo to prove that Leia is weaker in terms of Force-potential than Luke is, but you claimed originally that they are equals. I really can't tell on this, because you are correct that Luke had far greater amounts of time for training, but I don't think you can win the debate just like that.

Master of Ossus wrote:

THEHOOLIGANJEDI wrote: But Luke Has a HUGE advantage, plus he trained a lot longer than a couple of weeks, Between ESB and ROTJ is two whole years when he was training. Plus Leia spend very little time in comparison to Luke.

You may be correct, HooliganJedi. I really don't know, but you are shifting the burden of proof. You are asking Stravo to prove that Leia is weaker in terms of Force-potential than Luke is, but you claimed originally that they are equals. I really can't tell on this, because you are correct that Luke had far greater amounts of time for training, but I don't think you can win the debate just like that.

Of course I can't, I'll think of something new of course.

THEHOOLIGANJEDI wrote:I have always came to the conclusion that Luke and Leia are equal in force potential and if both of them were fully trained they would have been able to woop Vader and the Emperor. Am I off? I mean Obi Wan told Luke in RotJ that if Vader were to have ANY offspring that they would be a threat. Assuming that and the fact that they are twins, wouldn't I be correct?

Ok, Luke and Leia are both strong in the Force. Luke gained training by Yoda, the only known living Jedi Master on Degobah, which increased his powers, imho. But, if Leia had been trained as Luke had, together they would be quite a Force (pun intended) to contend with.

Another question, Imagine in Leia was sent to Tatooine and Luke was sent to Alderaan. How the hell would that work out?

It never would have happened. Show me a true female heroine that actually lived and wasn't persecuted? Helen of Troy was burned at the stake.

But, if you don't put that into the equation, I would have to assume it would have turned out with Leia being strong in the Force and Luke learning later. *shrug*

Leia's true strength in the Force lies in relations. That is why she is so good in politics. Her Force-sense is strong. Luke is more of the fighting end.

True enough, there was that time between ANH and ESB (2yrs IIRC) but think about how little Luke accomplished in those two years. Could he really train and learn anything new? Obi was gone and there were no other Jedi knights. The best he could do was focus all his will and get the lighsaber to leap to his hand in the cave...that was with his life on the line...so we can safely assume that this was the extent of his force abilities.

Yet a few weeks later on Dagobah, he's nearly lifting Xwings out of the bog and seeing into the future. Dueling with Darth Vader and genrally being Jedi like.

SO I guess what I'm saying is that within that two year time frame, Luke just did not accomplish much, not through lack of effort, because he obvioulsy learned enough to move the lightsaber with the force but not much else. He certainly wasn't as durable as a Jedi would be under the same circumstances, he nearly froze to death and could not sense the impending attack of teh Wampa, so we can surmise that the Luke of ESB pre Dagobah was a few notches above the Luke of ANH.

I instead focus on the results that a few weeks of intense training on Dagobah accomplished as opposed to Leia'syears of tutelage under Luke. I'm not sniping at Leia I just don't think she is as strong as Luke is.

Kelly Antilles wrote:

THEHOOLIGANJEDI wrote:I have always came to the conclusion that Luke and Leia are equal in force potential and if both of them were fully trained they would have been able to woop Vader and the Emperor. Am I off? I mean Obi Wan told Luke in RotJ that if Vader were to have ANY offspring that they would be a threat. Assuming that and the fact that they are twins, wouldn't I be correct?

Ok, Luke and Leia are both strong in the Force. Luke gained training by Yoda, the only known living Jedi Master on Degobah, which increased his powers, imho. But, if Leia had been trained as Luke had, together they would be quite a Force (pun intended) to contend with.

Another question, Imagine in Leia was sent to Tatooine and Luke was sent to Alderaan. How the hell would that work out?

It never would have happened. Show me a true female heroine that actually lived and wasn't persecuted? Helen of Troy was burned at the stake.

But, if you don't put that into the equation, I would have to assume it would have turned out with Leia being strong in the Force and Luke learning later. *shrug*

Leia's true strength in the Force lies in relations. That is why she is so good in politics. Her Force-sense is strong. Luke is more of the fighting end.

Well, I'll have to disagree with you there, for one thing, I read lot's and lot's of Greek Mythology and never once have I read that Helen of Troy was burn at the Stake. Besides you basing this on the premise thae SW universe is as or more so sexist as 20th-21st century earth, which is soo not the case (except maybe to some degree in the Empire and it's miltary). It would be totally feasble for Leia to become a Jedi as Luke as far as I know.

I think she meant Joan of Arc. Helen of Troy was certainly not a good modern feminine hero. She was just a sex object.

Stravo wrote:True enough, there was that time between ANH and ESB (2yrs IIRC) but think about how little Luke accomplished in those two years. Could he really train and learn anything new? Obi was gone and there were no other Jedi knights. The best he could do was focus all his will and get the lighsaber to leap to his hand in the cave...that was with his life on the line...so we can safely assume that this was the extent of his force abilities.

It was 3 years between ANH and ESB. During that time all Luke really did was learn to focus. Ben did have time to teach him how to focus on the Force.

Yet a few weeks later on Dagobah, he's nearly lifting Xwings out of the bog and seeing into the future. Dueling with Darth Vader and genrally being Jedi like.

Ok, let's put this out. Luke was being trained by Yoda, an 800 year old Jedi Master. Plus, the Force is very strong on Degobah. After all, Yoda was able to hide from Palpatine and Vader for so long. And, it is at least a month spent on Degobah. After all, the Falcon had to travel from Hoth to Bespin without hyperdrive. That had to take quite a while.

SO I guess what I'm saying is that within that two year time frame, Luke just did not accomplish much, not through lack of effort, because he obvioulsy learned enough to move the lightsaber with the force but not much else. He certainly wasn't as durable as a Jedi would be under the same circumstances, he nearly froze to death and could not sense the impending attack of teh Wampa, so we can surmise that the Luke of ESB pre Dagobah was a few notches above the Luke of ANH.

I instead focus on the results that a few weeks of intense training on Dagobah accomplished as opposed to Leia'syears of tutelage under Luke. I'm not sniping at Leia I just don't think she is as strong as Luke is.

Leia's "tutelage" under Luke wasn't day after day. It was a day here, another day ten months later, a week two years down the line, etc. Besides, Luke is hardly a Jedi Master. They both have strengths in different areas. So, in essesnce, Luke is stronger in fighting. Leia is stronger in communication.


Man, my eyes are crossing from reading this small print! I'm hoping I got my point across.

Master of Ossus wrote:I think she meant Joan of Arc. Helen of Troy was certainly not a good modern feminine hero. She was just a sex object.

Yeah, that one. I always get those two mixed up.

I don't think the fact that Leia is a woman kept her from being a Jedi (there are many female Jedi before the Empire, and many that go to Luke's praxeum after the Empire), but I don't think she got anywhere near the full training required to become a full-fledged Jedi Knight.

That's what kind of dissapointed me with some EU, They undermined her potential abilities. I think they should've expanded them more in a book. One thing I would have love to have read about in an EU book is Luke and Leia kicking ass Jedi style Kinda like Qui Gon and Obi Wan. Ya know what I mean?

Give her a break, she didn't have time, with all her duties. Plus, being A Jedi might be too much of a conflict of interest for a top-ranking Republic official.

I think that Luke and Leia were supposed to represent reincarnations of their parents. Luke is very much like Anakin, in fact it is stated throughout the triology that he reminds everyone of his father. He is a great pilot, mechanic and he is a kick ass jedi. He is reckless, prone to anger and pride. He has a slightly softer side to him than his father had, perhaps ironically BECAUSE he was raised by a father and mother (Owen and Beru) and Obi and Yoda didn't pound it into his head that he is meant to defeat the emperor and Vader, a possible explanation for Obi Wan's rather twisted certain point of view argument. Maybe they realized that Qui Gon had started a chain reaction within young Anakin when he started metioning the "Chosen One" stuff around the young and impressionable Anakin. So they decided NOT to tell Luke about his duty and destiny to confront and destroy the emperor, in order to avoid a similair fate as his father's.

Leia much like Padme is a politician and a diplomat. She has her mother's steel and compassion. Remember, she found it in her heart to love two men (Luke and Han) until of course she found it Luke was her bro. Leia was also a natural leader and a stalwart opponent to dictatorship. She is also the only one that remembers her mother...interstingly enough, neither child remembers their father pointing to the possibility that Padme hid the birth from Anankin and that Anakin only later learns the truth about Luke because of his exploits as a rebel hero. Leia is the force that holds the men in her life together, I almost gaurantee that the rage that drives Anakin into the darkside in Ep III will be something in regard to Padme, perhaps Dooku gloats about killing her...echoing Vader's taunt to Luke of turning his sister.

As Luke says later in the EU, it was Leia who was the strong one, she never once wavers from her goals, and she believes in Luke even when Luke doesn't believe in himself.

I have a theory on why Luke was sent to Tattoine and Leia Alderrann. Luke could be the one with the most force potential and probaly is but can it be possible that when both Leia and Luke were born, something told Obi Wan and Yoda that Luke will grow up wishing for the future. Yoda does say in ESB that hes been watching Luke "Look away..to the future, Never on what he was doing, where he was" So with Ben hiding on Tattooine and since Tattooine is desolt theres no way Luke can wander off in search of adventure without Ben knowing, and if anything goes wrong he can always appear and save him. While reading Children of the Jedi when i read the part of the Tuskan Raiders coming up to Lukes house when he was small i thought i was going to read Obi Wan coming to save him than run off.

*Raises eyebrows*

Food for thought, Lucas' main character in his earlier drafts (what eventually became Luke) was actually a girl....

Actually, I was thinking, and maybe Leia is even stronger than Luke in force potential. Obi Wan and crew did a lot more to cover up Leia's ID than they did Luke. So maybe they thought that if Luke turned to the Darkside, Leia could be powerful enough to destroy/redeem Luke and Vader.

In many legends and myths if the father is the villain, it is the son that has the destiny to either kill or redeem his father. Theseus or Perseus, althugh I think only one of them, go through this. Also, it kind of occurs in Oedipus Rex. It might have something to do with the son being so similar to the father that they can relate better and makes the confrontation more dramatic.

You can also look at it another way. They both are extremely powerful in the Force, but have been trained in different ways. Luke's brief but concentrated if you will, training was focused on combat and combat related learnings to help him in his "destiny" of defeating Vadar and Palpy. Years later when Leia's training started, the Jedi academy focused more on the passive learnings of the Force, with some combat training. The predominate thinking was spearheaded by the leader of the academy, Luke. All the EU that I have read that deals with Luke training Leia, focused on passive Force using.
So, I believe that Luke, and Leia are equal in pure Force ability, but their training has took them down different paths of skill and use. If you want something skewed by a lightsabre, then Luke's your man, but for a more dimplomatic and understanding (in a jedi way ie. TPM) Leia is your best choise. Basicly if you combine the two, you come close to a complete classicly trained Jedi.

Knife wrote:You can also look at it another way. They both are extremely powerful in the Force, but have been trained in different ways. Luke's brief but concentrated if you will, training was focused on combat and combat related learnings to help him in his "destiny" of defeating Vadar and Palpy. Years later when Leia's training started, the Jedi academy focused more on the passive learnings of the Force, with some combat training. The predominate thinking was spearheaded by the leader of the academy, Luke. All the EU that I have read that deals with Luke training Leia, focused on passive Force using.
So, I believe that Luke, and Leia are equal in pure Force ability, but their training has took them down different paths of skill and use. If you want something skewed by a lightsabre, then Luke's your man, but for a more dimplomatic and understanding (in a jedi way ie. TPM) Leia is your best choise. Basicly if you combine the two, you come close to a complete classicly trained Jedi.

I'll accept that explanation, even makes me think EU did do something right about Leia's Training. Still I would like to see Leia kickin' ass Jedi style.

Me too, but she needs to spend some time in lightsabre training. Or she could sit down with Luke and start reading the current trade negotiations with the Roche system, the documents only 5,000,000 pages long prepared by goverment lawyers. It would take awhile but Luke would eventualy die of bordem.

The thing about Leia is, for like the first ten years of the New Republic, she was one of the few Mon Mothma could depend on. Which meant that she would ask Leia to do more stuff, upping the chances of not screwing up something important. With all the diplomatic stuff assigned to her, she has no time for Jedi training.