Imperial Forces (40K) vs 1980s Soviets

[Lord_Of_Change 9]

Previously posted by me on SB; inspired by this thread.

On March 28 1986, something makes the Soviet Union attack NATO. As the war begins, Eighth Guards Army heads toward the Fulda Gap. But something blocks them. A bored COROB teleports several regiments of the Imperial Guard and an Order of Sisters of Battle in the path of the Soviet Army, and informs NATO that they are recieving new allies.

WH40K forces OOB:

1 Cadian Armoured Regiment
- 5 Companies, each consisting of 20 Leman Russ tanks
1 Cadian Infantry Regiment
- 50 Companies, each of 100 men
1 Elysian Drop Troopers Regiment
- 50 Companies, each consisting of 100 men with Valkyrie support
1 Baneblade Steel Fury Company
- 3 Baneblades
1 Sisters of Battle Order
- 1 Canoness
- 300 Sororitas (an even mix of types)
- 6 Penitent Engines
- 48 Arco-Flagellants
- 30 Immolators

Scenarios:

Scenario 1: The forces listed above versus Eighth Guards Army, in the terrain of the Fulda Gap. No nukes or NATO support.
Scenario 2: The forces listed with NATO support versus Soviet forces in Germany. No nukes.
Scenario 3: Free-for-all. The forces listed with NATO support versus the full might of the Warsaw Pact. Nukes allowed, however the Imperials get Saint Celestine and two Warhound Titans.

Who wins each scenario?

[Black Admiral]

That is a seriously messed up TO&E on the Guard side, and I'm fairly sure on the Sororitas side as well. *goes to dig up actual Guard TO&Es* Important question - is the Cadian infantry regiment present light or armoured role infantry?

[Lord_Of_Change 9]

That is a seriously messed up TO&E on the Guard side, and I'm fairly sure on the Sororitas side as well. *goes to dig up actual Guard TO&Es* Important question - is the Cadian infantry regiment present light or armoured role infantry?

Armoured role.

[Black Admiral]

Okay then, so we'll use the TO&E of the Cadian 114th Mechanised as seen in IA3;

Regimental Headquarters
Officer Commanding: Col. Stranski
HQ Staff;
- 6 Officers
- 208 Guardsmen
- 4 x Chimera
Signals Company;
- 1 Officer
- 11 Guardsmen
- 3 x Trojan
Medical Company
- 2 Officers
- 44 Guardsmen
- 10 x Samaritan
Commissariat Staff
- 5 Commissars
Ordnance Company
- 1 Officer
- 24 Guardsmen
- 3 x Trojan
- 5 x Atlas
Adeptus Mechanicus attachments
- 33 Techpriests

Twelve Infantry companies, each organised with -
Company HQ
- 2 Officers
- 8 Guardsmen
- 1 x Chimera
- 1 x Salamander
And four Rifle Platoons organised as so -
Rifle Platoon
Platoon Command Section
- 1 Officer
- 4 Guardsmen
- 1 x Chimera
Rifle Squad
- 10 Guardsmen
- 1 x Chimera
Rifle Squad
- 10 Guardsmen
- 1 x Chimera
Rifle Squad
- 10 Guardsmen
- 1 x Chimera
Rifle Squad
- 10 Guardsmen
- 1 x Chimera
Rifle Squad
- 10 Guardsmen
- 1 x Chimera
Heavy Weapons Squad
- 6 Guardsmen
- 1 x Chimera

Artillery Brigade
Brigade HQ
- 2 Officers
- 42 Guardsmen
- 4 x Chimera
SP-Gun Company
Three batteries of Basilisk self-propelled guns, each organised so -
- 4 Officers
- 46 Guardsmen
- 10 x Basilisk SPG
SP-Mortar Company
Two batteries of Griffon self-propelled mortars, each organised so -
- 4 officers
- 36 Guardsmen
- 10 x Griffon mortar carrier
Hydra Battery
- 2 Officers
- 48 Guardsmen
- 10 x Hydra SPAAG

Kasrkin Platoon
- 1 Officer
- 54 Kasrkin
- 6 x Chimera

Sentinel Company
- 1 Officer
- 17 Guardsmen
- 18 x Sentinel walker

Reconnaissance Company
Company HQ
- 1 Officer
- 3 Guardsmen
- 1 x Salamander
And four recon squadrons, each organised so -
- 1 Officer
- 15 Guardsmen
- 4 x Salamander


I can type up the TO&E for the Elysian 23rd Drop Infantry later if it's needed, as well as work on putting together a TO&E for a Cadian tank regiment from Gunheads.

[Lord_Of_Change 9]

^That works better than my original TO&E. Consider it used for this thread.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Do you have a TO&E for Eighth Guards Army, and are they the only Soviet forces involved?

[Black Admiral]

Do you have a TO&E for Eighth Guards Army

Handy linka.

[NecronLord]

Scenario 3: Free-for-all. The forces listed with NATO support versus the full might of the Warsaw Pact. Nukes allowed, however the Imperials get Saint Celestine and two Warhound Titans.

Nukes in this do not favour the USSR. At one point Nato seriously planned to nuke the Fulda Gap in the event of an attack. The Imperium would be more than onboard with that plan.

[Eternal_Freedom]

I would have thought the Imperial forces would consider using nuclear-level weapons as a matter of course. The no nukes rule favours the Imperium either way methinks.

[NecronLord]

I would have thought the Imperial forces would consider using nuclear-level weapons as a matter of course. The no nukes rule favours the Imperium either way methinks.

Well yes.

But "prevent USSR getting through the gap" becomes much easier if you can demolish it.

[Eternal_Freedom]

What about the OP's scenario 1 where NATO doesn't get involved? The Soviets don't get nukes and the Imperium get their usual goodies. Soviets still fucked.

Heck, scenario 3 the Imps have a pair of Warhound titans. Those are really going to screw things up.

[Darth Tanner]

Am I right in thinking the Baneblades can walk all over anything the Soviets have short of nukes? They don't have shielding but their more or less immune to antitank fire from 40k level weaponry arent they?

Heck, scenario 3 the Imps have a pair of Warhound titans.

How would Titan grade void shields hold up to nuclear attack? They resist nuclear level titan weaponry so I'd imagine their going to be walking out of nuclear fireballs unharmed, or atleast standing up after the shockwaves have knocked them down.

[Eternal_Freedom]

The Baneblades alone will stomp any armoured forces the Soviets send them, you're correct that only heavy stuff like multimeltas or lascannons can damage them reliably.

on that note, IG anti-tank weapons are designed to penetrate W40K tank armour and vehicles. I think they are going to be a lot more effective against Soviet forces.

And on the Warhound issue, yeah, I think they'll tank tactical nukes. Strategic-level nukes perhaps not, but the Soviests would have to toss those on ballistic missiles, and I think either the Americans would get angry or the Titans would shoot them down.

[MKSheppard]

The Baneblades alone will stomp any armoured forces the Soviets send them, you're correct that only heavy stuff like multimeltas or lascannons can damage them reliably.

Don't be so sure about that. Baneblades are pretty huge, they're twice as wide as an Abrams for example, and they're a whopping 20.6 feet high; compared to 8 feet for an Abrams and 7'2" for a T-80.

They also weigh 316~ tonnes, meaning bridges cannot really support their weight other than major highway bridges designed to support a lot of vehicular traffic, and those would be dropped in the opening moments of WWIII.

That huge size also means they're horribly vunerable to Soviet PGMs.

In June 1985, Senior Lieutenant A. Beletskiy employed his 2S4 Tyylpan 240mm SP-Mortar battery against a Mujahideen stronghold that artillery could not engage. After getting a range with his laser rangefinder, and firing a conventional HE spotting round to establish the PGM footprint, he fired a Smel'chak laser guided round which hit the target exactly.

I'm sure that a 276 pound mortar shell hitting the roof of the Baneblade is going to inflict some serious damage.

[NecronLord]

And on the Warhound issue, yeah, I think they'll tank tactical nukes. Strategic-level nukes perhaps not, but the Soviests would have to toss those on ballistic missiles, and I think either the Americans would get angry or the Titans would shoot them down.

The Americans aren't going to up the ante to a full scale exchange for the single figure numbers of Theatre Ballistic Missiles they'd need to use.

[Shroom Man 777]

Have we seen much in the way of 40k minelaying and anti-mine tech? Would hate for all those Brainblades to end up having their treads fethed by the Russkies.

Shep has a point, the Russkies aren't a bunch of idiotic human waving shitheads. They've prepared for war with NATO for years, studied the terrain and everything. Whereas, if anything, the IG forces would be the one out of place, working in unfamiliar territory, and with doctrines not really matching NATO at all.

This reeks of the recent spate of "my favoritest thing ever versus easy pickings for an easy curbstomp for my favoritest things ever" lame threads. I give the Soviet Union my blessing in killing the motherfuck out of NATO and these 40k guys.

[Lord_Of_Change 9]

This reeks of the recent spate of "my favoritest thing ever versus easy pickings for an easy curbstomp for my favoritest things ever" lame threads. I give the Soviet Union my blessing in killing the motherfuck out of NATO and these 40k guys.

Eh, this was actually an attempt to see how 40K forces would fare in the same general scenario as the SW forces in this thread.

[Shroom Man 777]

Thank god in that thread people more or less agreed that the Soviets would make it Vietshroom, Afshroomistan, Black Shroom Down and Shroomalia combined for those ridiculously stupid sci-fi armies, and make it totally not the one-sided curbstomp some would anticipate.

Needless to say, if these 40k guys are expecting an enemy with all the tactical acumen of the average Ork or Chaos moron, well, the Soviets are gonna give them some surprises.

[Connor MacLeod]

That huge size also means they're horribly vunerable to Soviet PGMs.

In June 1985, Senior Lieutenant A. Beletskiy employed his 2S4 Tyylpan 240mm SP-Mortar battery against a Mujahideen stronghold that artillery could not engage. After getting a range with his laser rangefinder, and firing a conventional HE spotting round to establish the PGM footprint, he fired a Smel'chak laser guided round which hit the target exactly.

I'm sure that a 276 pound mortar shell hitting the roof of the Baneblade is going to inflict some serious damage.

That depends on the calcs you want to use. Want to get into a calc war again? I'm sure someone like Gunhead would run to your rescue

Could it? Possibly. We know from IA1 that siege shells for one of the Baneblade variants is something like 180 kg, so that's not that far off. If not the first, then the second, maybe the third.

On the other hand I'm tempted to point out that the ideal anti-tank munition in 40K is a melta charge, which according to the core rules is basically a shaped-charge mini nuke.

I'm pretty sure someone could bring up "Courge and Honour" where Baneblades were standing up pretty well to kinetic impacts from Tau railgun fire too.

But really its not the durability issue that concerns me so much as the rate of progress. By FW stats their off-road speed is pretty slow, and they can't use tanks or bridges for the reasons you state. At some point they'll probably have to abandon the Baneblades, so they might as well ditch them early on. My ideal forces would be Leman Russ Annihilators with souped up engines. twin lascannon would rip through most tank armor pretty well I'd think, but a tank with shaped charge munitions (or melta charges, if they can have those) might do just as well. Hell stick a lascannon on a bunch of Chimeras (or Salamanders) and it probably owuld do nicely in this case. Lascannons have insane anti-armour ability (at least if you assume they behave like a "blaster" style laser from my favorite death ray website

The real issue concerning me is just how utterly, utterly outnumbered they are and they have fuck all in the sense of ability to gather information. I'm not worried about them being able to cover territory (the short story defixio shows that the shitty Forgeworld speeds are paired with an operational range of at LEAST 1500 km, probably alot more.) and the fact that the offensive side is horrendously outnumbered and is rather light on artillery itself. The Russians would have what.. 100-150K men at least? Probably more tanks and artillery. I'd also expect that the Soviets would have some form of aerial recon, satellite recon, etc. The Imperials probably have some sorts of auspex (which isnt bad, considering auspex ranges for vehicles can go well into 10-20 km or so) and sentinels and valkyries/vultures which can help SOME, but not enough to help here. And if we assume Forge World speeds for the Russes (the lower, non souped up ones at least) then they probably would be vastly outperformed.

Right now I'm envisioning the Russians basically drawing in and encircling a vastly smaller force and then simply pinning it in place with gunfire, artillery, bombings, etc until its gone, no matter how long it takes.

[Connor MacLeod]

Thank god in that thread people more or less agreed that the Soviets would make it Vietshroom, Afshroomistan, Black Shroom Down and Shroomalia combined for those ridiculously stupid sci-fi armies, and make it totally not the one-sided curbstomp some would anticipate.

Needless to say, if these 40k guys are expecting an enemy with all the tactical acumen of the average Ork or Chaos moron, well, the Soviets are gonna give them some surprises.

Only until Cain and Jurgen appear to kick Soviet ass and and make it with some hot Russian chicks like this was some 80s American propoganda movie.

Have we seen much in the way of 40k minelaying and anti-mine tech? Would hate for all those Brainblades to end up having their treads fethed by the Russkies.

Mine laying can be dropped from fighters, delivered by artillery, and possibly evne laid by orbital bombardment dropping shells. And of course by hand. There might even be some chimera minelaying varient I haven't heard of (probably produced by Forgeworld. Hell if its Forgeworld they probably made a Macharius and Super-heavy version of it too.)

[NecronLord]

Soviet Union my blessing in killing the motherfuck out of NATO [...]

I don't think anyone's saying they're even up to that. Because frankly, in the real world, it's hard to know.

[NecronLord]

Have we seen much in the way of 40k minelaying and anti-mine tech? Would hate for all those Brainblades to end up having their treads fethed by the Russkies.

Mine laying can be dropped from fighters, delivered by artillery, and possibly evne laid by orbital bombardment dropping shells. And of course by hand. There might even be some chimera minelaying varient I haven't heard of (probably produced by Forgeworld. Hell if its Forgeworld they probably made a Macharius and Super-heavy version of it too.)

Epic used to have the Gorgon Mine Layer, but I don't know the fluff.

[lordofchange13]

They team up blow the fuck out of America and the rest of NATO. USSR reverse engineer the guardsmen advanced weapons and power sources, conquer the world and bring the entire human race in to the loving embrace of Communism!!

[MKSheppard]

Scale drawing of a T-80UD against a Baneblade side image taken from the assembly booklet.

Mmmm...I think the problem would be that they'd be shot at by everything on the battlefield from first sight; making their external equipment, such as vison blocks, radio antennas, armament, etc horribly vunerable to damage or destruction, even if the main armor can hold up to repeated hits.

[MKSheppard]

Right now I'm envisioning the Russians basically drawing in and encircling a vastly smaller force and then simply pinning it in place with gunfire, artillery, bombings, etc until its gone, no matter how long it takes.

It'd happen a lot faster than you think.



This is the theoretical tonnage of artillery resulting from one minute of firing circa mid 1980s.

Given that the OP specifies 8th Guards Army...