Lucas and the EU Quote contradiction?

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Moff Radec
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Lucas and the EU Quote contradiction?

Post by Moff Radec »

I have been a fan of all Star Wars works, the EU and movies alike, but for a while now I've been discussing topics about Luke Skywalker or the firepower of Star Destroyers in vs. threads and sometimes I am able to get into a decent discussion. Other times I get these quotes tossed at me from Lucas supposadly invalidating the EU.
"But there's no story past Episode VI, there's just no story. It's a certain story about Anakin Skywalker and once Anakin Skywalker dies, that's kind of the end of the story. There is no story about Luke Skywalker, I mean apart from the books. But there's three worlds: There's my world that I made up, there's the licensing world that's the books, the comics, all that kind of stuff, the games, which is their world, and then there's the fans' world, which is also very rich in imagination, but they don't always mesh. All I'm in charge of is my world. I can't be in charge of those other people's world, because I can't keep up with it."
"I've left pretty explicit instructions for there not to be any more features. There will definitely be no Episodes VII-IX. That's because there isn't any story. I mean, I never thought of anything. And now there have been novels about the events after Episode VI, which isn't at all what I would have done with it. The Star Wars story is really the tragedy of Darth Vader. That is the story. Once Vader dies, he doesn't come back to life, the Emperor doesn't get cloned and Luke doesn't get married..."
These are the ones that get thrown at me, usually by purists and Trekkies. I think of it being as Lucas just giving his opinion on it saying he didn't write anything beyond that and is only talking about it from the movies perspective. I cannot help but feel like the quotes are taken too literally and if it really did make the EU non-canon then Wookieepedia and Leland Chee would have labeled it as so, correct?

Other times when I bring up how it's still apart of the continuity I get this "It's apart of a different universe" excuse because of Lucas saying he considers it apart of a parallel universe. This is mostly brought up by Trekkies I encounter. I've read the stickies dealing with the Canon quotes and I understand that the ones posted there are valid but the quotes I posted are somewhat recent but don't appear to be discussed anywhere here.

In a nutshell: What is everyone elses take on the above quotes? Are they just Lucas' opinion and not an official statement or do they really affect the overall continuity of Star Wars rendering post-ROTJ or other EU not canon? Or is the EU really apart of some "parallel universe" like some claim?

I understand not everyone looks at Star Wars the same way and fans have a right to pick their own canon, but when it comes to discussions and debates the EU is usually used as an example.
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Re: Lucas and the EU Quote contradiction?

Post by StarSword »

Moff Radec wrote:In a nutshell: What is everyone elses take on the above quotes? Are they just Lucas' opinion and not an official statement or do they really affect the overall continuity of Star Wars rendering post-ROTJ or other EU not canon? Or is the EU really apart of some "parallel universe" like some claim?
I take it to mean that Lucas doesn't personally care about the EU. He's done telling stories and wants to leave the storytelling up to people who give a crap.

The trekkies who misconstrue his comments as saying the EU is non-canon are, putting it mildly, full of shit. I note they don't have the same problems with Star Trek past TNG, TAS, or the parts of TOS that Gene Roddenberry said weren't canon. :roll: The only difference is, Gene Roddenberry is dead and George Lucas isn't.

The fact is that some of the evidence for Wars beating Trek comes from the EU (Base Delta Zero, for instance), and thus it's in the more rabid trekkies' interest to see that evidence thrown out. Hence, they do their damnedest to discredit it.

To which I say, "BDZ. 200 gigatons from a troop transport. Sun Crusher. World Devastators. Force storms. Canon. Deal with it." :mrgreen:


... And do you think that, just maybe, this belongs in the SWvST forum?
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Re: Lucas and the EU Quote contradiction?

Post by Moff Radec »

StarSword wrote:I take it to mean that Lucas doesn't personally care about the EU. He's done telling stories and wants to leave the storytelling up to people who give a crap.

The trekkies who misconstrue his comments as saying the EU is non-canon are, putting it mildly, full of shit. I note they don't have the same problems with Star Trek past TNG, TAS, or the parts of TOS that Gene Roddenberry said weren't canon. :roll: The only difference is, Gene Roddenberry is dead and George Lucas isn't.

The fact is that some of the evidence for Wars beating Trek comes from the EU (Base Delta Zero, for instance), and thus it's in the more rabid trekkies' interest to see that evidence thrown out. Hence, they do their damnedest to discredit it.
I thought so. I see other Star Wars fans that also think the quotes invalidate the EU which is why I was curious about it.

Another thing that tugs at my shoulder is how if Lucas doesn't care then why he doesn't let Luke Skywalker or other characters get killed off. If he didn't care, I'm sure writers would have had Luke killed off long ago.
StarSword wrote:... And do you think that, just maybe, this belongs in the SWvST forum?
I should have acknowledged that this could be moved there if needed. Though I didn't really intend it to be a Star Wars vs. Star Trek issue, I was using examples. Like I said, I do see other Star Wars fans talk about this issue and bring up the same quotes as if they don't want the EU to be canon. So I thought it would have been better off here.
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Re: Lucas and the EU Quote contradiction?

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Moff Radec wrote:Another thing that tugs at my shoulder is how if Lucas doesn't care then why he doesn't let Luke Skywalker or other characters get killed off. If he didn't care, I'm sure writers would have had Luke killed off long ago.
Actually, he does allow movie characters to get killed off. Just off the top of my head:
  • Gen. Maximilian Veers, Imperial ground commander at Hoth, is killed in action in the Dark Empire comics, making him the first named character from the movies to be killed in the EU.
  • Gen. Crix Madine, head of Rebel Alliance/New Republic black ops, is murdered by Durga the Hutt in Darksaber.
  • I saved the best for last. Chewbacca is killed during the evacuation of Sernpidal in Vector Prime.
Other characters, like Adm. Ackbar and Mon Mothma, die of old age. As does Luke eventually. (His Force ghost appears repeatedly to one of his great-great-grandchildren in the Legacy comics.)

Admittedly, he does probably have to be convinced of its necessity to the story to allow a major character like Chewie to get killed off.
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Re: Lucas and the EU Quote contradiction?

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Unless I'm very much mistaken, Luke is dead by now (from old age if nothing else) and George didn't bat an eye at Chewie being killed pointlessly (if spectacularly) during NJO.
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Re: Lucas and the EU Quote contradiction?

Post by Moff Radec »

StarSword wrote:Actually, he does allow movie characters to get killed off. Just off the top of my head:
  • Gen. Maximilian Veers, Imperial ground commander at Hoth, is killed in action in the Dark Empire comics, making him the first named character from the movies to be killed in the EU.
  • Gen. Crix Madine, head of Rebel Alliance/New Republic black ops, is murdered by Durga the Hutt in Darksaber.
  • I saved the best for last. Chewbacca is killed during the evacuation of Sernpidal in Vector Prime.
Other characters, like Adm. Ackbar and Mon Mothma, die of old age. As does Luke eventually. (His Force ghost appears repeatedly to one of his great-great-grandchildren in the Legacy comics.)

Admittedly, he does probably have to be convinced of its necessity to the story to allow a major character like Chewie to get killed off.
This is true, I can't believe I forgot about those. But then again, Veers and Crix Madine are minor characters instead of major ones like Luke and Leia. If I remember correctly Luke was intended to be killed off but Lucas said no and the writers went with Chewbacca because he wasn't contributing to the plot much. I might be slightly off but that's as much as I can remember.
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Re: Lucas and the EU Quote contradiction?

Post by Riquende »

I don't remember General Veers in Dark Empire. I think his son was. Zev Veers? It's been a long time.
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Re: Lucas and the EU Quote contradiction?

Post by Ritterin Sophia »

Batman wrote:Unless I'm very much mistaken, Luke is dead by now (from old age if nothing else) and George didn't bat an eye at Chewie being killed pointlessly (if spectacularly) during NJO.
Depends. He's still alive in the Star Wars Fate of the Jedi novels and still getting more powerful. He is, however, dead by the time the Legacy comics take place.
Riquende wrote:I don't remember General Veers in Dark Empire. I think his son was. Zev Veers? It's been a long time.
Yes, Zevulon 'Zev' Veers.
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Re: Lucas and the EU Quote contradiction?

Post by Stofsk »

lol ZEVULON

Man Veers must have really hated his son. :D
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Re: Lucas and the EU Quote contradiction?

Post by Darth Tedious »

Stofsk wrote:lol ZEVULON

Man Veers must have really hated his son. :D
Because Maximilian is SO much better. :D
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Re: Lucas and the EU Quote contradiction?

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Riquende wrote:I don't remember General Veers in Dark Empire. I think his son was. Zev Veers? It's been a long time.
Actually, they both were. For the elder Veers, Wookieepedia cites Dark Empire II Issue 1, "Operation Shadow Hand". Apparently Veers was first demoted to captain due to his association with Vader (a hell of a step down from general, if Earth armies' typical rank structures are any judge). He was then sent on a suicide mission during the Second Battle of Balmorra by a Dark Jedi, Executor Sedriss QL, and ended up KIA on said mission.
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The Vortex Empire: I think the real question is obviously how a supervolcano eruption wiping out vast swathes of the country would affect the 2016 election.
Borgholio: The GOP would blame Obama and use the subsequent nuclear winter to debunk global warming.
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